Counselor letter question

[JeanM]

My ds has been going to the public school part-time. This year he took AP English, honors Spanish III and band at the school. His guidance counselor is very nice, and a former homeschool mom. He's met with her several times, and she definitely knows who he is, but I'm not sure how well she knows him. She has offered to write his counselor letter, even though he is applying to schools as a homeschooler. Any opinions as to the pros or cons of having her write the letter?

 

I'm assuming she'll be considered "more objective" by the colleges. I had been thinking that the counselor letter was the place where we would address why we were homeschooling, how we graded, etc. Can that stuff go somewhere else?

[TammyS]

You don't need to address that stuff at all.  In fact, I wouldn't.  They don't care why you homeschooled and you run the risk of turning them off if they don't like your reasons.  You can address "how we graded", if you want, by putting your grading scale somewhere on the transcript.  Or just put number grades (percentages) instead of letter grades.

 

I would take her up on that offer, and try to get 1-2 more other people besides (the band director would be good, and individual teachers).  I didn't write any of my son's letters.  That was part of the reason that I outsourced some things, to have letter writers.  If you are worried about defending your homeschool, let his test scores speak for themselves.  A couple of good letters and some good test scores (AP, SAT, etc) and you will be fine.

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm assuming she'll be considered "more objective" by the colleges. I had been thinking that the counselor letter was the place where we would address why we were homeschooling, how we graded, etc. Can that stuff go somewhere else?

 

 

You don't need to address that stuff at all.  In fact, I wouldn't.  They don't care why you homeschooled and you run the risk of turning them off if they don't like your reasons.  You can address "how we graded", if you want, by putting your grading scale somewhere on the transcript.  Or just put number grades (percentages) instead of letter grades.

 

I would take her up on that offer, and try to get 1-2 more other people besides (the band director would be good, and individual teachers).  I didn't write any of my son's letters.  That was part of the reason that I outsourced some things, to have letter writers.  If you are worried about defending your homeschool, let his test scores speak for themselves.  A couple of good letters and some good test scores (AP, SAT, etc) and you will be fine.

 

Well, I did address those things, but I did it in our school profile document, not in the counselor letter. The counselor letter is about the student, not the "school."

 

Also, there is a distinction between the counselor letter and teacher recommendations. As the administrator of our homeschool, I felt it was entirely appropriate that I write the counselor letter for my son. However, he also had multiple letters from other teachers, as is required by most colleges. 

[JeanM]

You don't need to address that stuff at all.  In fact, I wouldn't.  They don't care why you homeschooled and you run the risk of turning them off if they don't like your reasons.  You can address "how we graded", if you want, by putting your grading scale somewhere on the transcript.  Or just put number grades (percentages) instead of letter grades.

 

I would take her up on that offer, and try to get 1-2 more other people besides (the band director would be good, and individual teachers).  I didn't write any of my son's letters.  That was part of the reason that I outsourced some things, to have letter writers.  If you are worried about defending your homeschool, let his test scores speak for themselves.  A couple of good letters and some good test scores (AP, SAT, etc) and you will be fine.

 

Thanks, TammyS. He has teachers who will write letters of recommendation for him, and he might ask his debate team coach too.

 

 

 

 

Well, I did address those things, but I did it in our school profile document, not in the counselor letter. The counselor letter is about the student, not the "school."

 

Also, there is a distinction between the counselor letter and teacher recommendations. As the administrator of our homeschool, I felt it was entirely appropriate that I write the counselor letter for my son. However, he also had multiple letters from other teachers, as is required by most colleges. 

 

So maybe I'm not really understanding the counselor letter. I can definitely put some of that stuff in the school profile document. But then what goes in the counselor letter? My perspective on my son's readiness for college? Sorry, I'm really struggling with this.

[TammyS]

Thanks, TammyS. He has teachers who will write letters of recommendation for him, and he might ask his debate team coach too.

 

 

 

 

 

So maybe I'm not really understanding the counselor letter. I can definitely put some of that stuff in the school profile document. But then what goes in the counselor letter? My perspective on my son's readiness for college? Sorry, I'm really struggling with this.

 

You don't really need a counselor letter.  You need to include information about what your son studied, test scores, and some recommendation letters.  You might also put in descriptions of courses and/or book list if you think it's wanted (or asked for).  A specific counselor letter isn't necessary. 

 

I submitted: transcript, test scores, letters of recommendation, a BRIEF (one line each) course description, and  book list.

 

If you want to include a further description of your son's readiness for college, I guess you can.  But I always think that admissions counselors have so much paper to get through, I don't include anything that doesn't really pack a punch (and IMO mom's opinion about anything isn't going to be taken seriously anyway).

[Luckymama]

I believe a counselor letter is a required portion of the Common App, which some schools use exclusively.

[Jenny in Florida]

You don't really need a counselor letter. 

 

 

I believe a counselor letter is a required portion of the Common App, which some schools use exclusively.

 

Luckymama is correct. Most, if not all, of the colleges to which my son applied required a counselor letter and at least one letter from a teacher.

[Jenny in Florida]

So maybe I'm not really understanding the counselor letter. I can definitely put some of that stuff in the school profile document. But then what goes in the counselor letter? My perspective on my son's readiness for college? Sorry, I'm really struggling with this.

 

The counselor letter is your chance to introduce the student. 

 

I will be happy to send you a copy of the one I wrote for my son, if that would be helpful for you. I remember with gratitude the folks who shared their letters with me when I was in the midst of the process. Feel free to private message me an e-mail address, and I will forward a copy of mine to you, if you'd like.

[JeanM]

DS is definitely planning to use the common app, so it sounds like he does need a counselor letter.

 

Jenny, thanks for your incredibly generous offer, I'm pming you now.

[JanetC]

Here is what goes in a typical "school kid" counselor letter:

 

http://hscw-counselorscorner.blogspot.com/2015/09/a-quick-refresher-on-counselor-letters.html

 

 

[JeanM]

Here is what goes in a typical "school kid" counselor letter:

 

http://hscw-counselorscorner.blogspot.com/2015/09/a-quick-refresher-on-counselor-letters.html

 

Thanks Janet, that is very helpful! I'm leaning towards writing my own at this point, but it's good to have options.

[EKS]

Jean--I'd be happy to share my letter as well.  Seeing letters from homeschoolers was extremely helpful to me (and Jenny in Florida was one of them--thanks again Jenny!).

 

One thing to keep in mind is that your status as a homeschooler could be seen as a liability--"Of course she thinks he's wonderful, she's his mom!" but it can also be your biggest strength.  

 

PM me if you are interested.

[snowbeltmom]

You don't need to address that stuff at all.  In fact, I wouldn't.  They don't care why you homeschooled and you run the risk of turning them off if they don't like your reasons.  You can address "how we graded", if you want, by putting your grading scale somewhere on the transcript.  Or just put number grades (percentages) instead of letter grades.

 

I would take her up on that offer, and try to get 1-2 more other people besides (the band director would be good, and individual teachers).  I didn't write any of my son's letters.  That was part of the reason that I outsourced some things, to have letter writers.  If you are worried about defending your homeschool, let his test scores speak for themselves.  A couple of good letters and some good test scores (AP, SAT, etc) and you will be fine.

 

I have not found the bolded to be the case with the schools my kids have applied to - the colleges definitely wanted to know why we homeschooled.  However, I didn't address this in the counselor letter; I addressed it in the school profile.  My school profile contained the following:

Community Profile - which included population stats, stats on our public school system, and the stats of my two oldest kids (comparing their SAT scores to that of our public school)

Reason for Homeschooling

Educational History of the applicant

Educational Partners

Grading Policy

 

Edited June 17, 2016 by snowbeltmom

[JeanM]

I have not found the bolded to be the case with the schools my kids have applied to - the colleges definitely wanted to know why we homeschooled.  However, I didn't address this in the counselor letter; I addressed it in the school profile.  My school profile contained the following:

Community Profile - which included population stats, stats on our public school system, and the stats of my two oldest kids (comparing their SAT scores to that of our public school)

Reason for Homeschooling

Educational History of the applicant

Educational Partners

Grading Policy

 

 

 

Thanks, that's very helpful!! Just curious, I'm not sure what the bolded means, "educational history of the applicant." Is that an explanation like if your ds was homeschooled and in public school? Do you cover anything pre-high school?

[quark]

I have not found the bolded to be the case with the schools my kids have applied to - the colleges definitely wanted to know why we homeschooled.  However, I didn't address this in the counselor letter; I addressed it in the school profile.  My school profile contained the following:

Community Profile - which included population stats, stats on our public school system, and the stats of my two oldest kids (comparing their SAT scores to that of our public school)

Reason for Homeschooling

Educational History of the applicant

Educational Partners

Grading Policy

 

 

If I could add a question here, I am wondering if a school profile could be more than one page long. Currently, I am trying to squeeze all of the above except for Educational Partners into one page. I parked Educational Partners into first page of course descriptions instead. Any thoughts on a longer school profile? Yay or nay?

 

[JanetC]

If I could add a question here, I am wondering if a school profile could be more than one page long. Currently, I am trying to squeeze all of the above except for Educational Partners into one page. I parked Educational Partners into first page of course descriptions instead. Any thoughts on a longer school profile? Yay or nay?

 

 

All of my stuff was long, including the school profile. However, part of the page count was using readable fonts and 1.25 spacing to make it easy on tired eyes. I shopped most of it around to admissions reps at college fairs and tweaked some things from that. However, I did not get feedback on the last few pieces I wrote, including my school profile.

 

Number one is make it very easy to skim. I used lots of subheadings, bullets, etc. If you weren't interested in learning more about my kid's music lesson teacher, it was easy to skip.

[quark]

Typical B&M high school profile samples:

College Board

Random high school from google search

 

[quark]

All of my stuff was long, including the school profile. However, part of the page count was using readable fonts and 1.25 spacing to make it easy on tired eyes. I shopped most of it around to admissions reps at college fairs and tweaked some things from that. However, I did not get feedback on the last few pieces I wrote, including my school profile.

 

Number one is make it very easy to skim. I used lots of subheadings, bullets, etc. If you weren't interested in learning more about my kid's music lesson teacher, it was easy to skip.

 

Ah, thank you! That helps!

 

I've designed mine with an easy-on-the-eyes sidebar for fast facts (e.g. grading key, grad requirements etc) but it's a good idea to also increase line spacing!

 

[snowbeltmom]

Thanks, that's very helpful!! Just curious, I'm not sure what the bolded means, "educational history of the applicant." Is that an explanation like if your ds was homeschooled and in public school? Do you cover anything pre-high school?

Yes, I give a complete history from preschool to present day.  The educational history section is 15 paragraphs long, and my homeschool profile is 4 full pages.  I realize that length goes against the wisdom on these boards, but I have received positive feedback from more than one school.

 

I have learned a ton this year going through the recruiting process with my son - Coaches share way more than any admissions officer ever has.  More than one coach was brutally honest with me about how homeschoolers are perceived.  These documents we submit are our only opportunity to dispel misconceptions (if any) that an adcom may have. 

 

 

 

 

 

. 

[TammyS]

Luckymama is correct. Most, if not all, of the colleges to which my son applied required a counselor letter and at least one letter from a teacher.

 

Interesting.  My son was accepted everywhere he applied, and he was never asked for a counselor letter.  Of course, we didn't use the common app, either.

[snowbeltmom]

Interesting.  My son was accepted everywhere he applied, and he was never asked for a counselor letter.  Of course, we didn't use the common app, either.

 

That's what makes this whole process so nerve-wracking...most questions don't have a definitive answer.  My oldest son had one school on his list that didn't accept the Common Application - I had to write two counselor letters for them if I remember correctly.

 

[Luckymama]

I may need to go stock up on chocolate for this process. Or wine.

 

 

Or tequila :lol:

 

I appreciate all the sharing you all do every day.

[quark]

I may need to go stock up on chocolate for this process. Or wine.

 

 

Or tequila :lol:

 

I appreciate all the sharing you all do every day.

 

Here it's coffee (and... :leaving: coffee ice cream...just found a delightful coffee chocolate chip flavor by Talenti).

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have not found the bolded to be the case with the schools my kids have applied to - the colleges definitely wanted to know why we homeschooled.  However, I didn't address this in the counselor letter; I addressed it in the school profile.  My school profile contained the following:

Community Profile - which included population stats, stats on our public school system, and the stats of my two oldest kids (comparing their SAT scores to that of our public school)

Reason for Homeschooling

Educational History of the applicant

Educational Partners

Grading Policy

 

 

I had similar sections.

I didn't do a Community Profile, because DS had lived three places during high school and to spend much time on the community stats took the focus away from what I was trying to say about him.  I did include a blurb about the fact that participation in public high school athletics and partial enrollment were not options.  I also have a listing of everywhere he lived since starting elementary (including multiple multi-month periods of travel and transitional living in hotels and relatives homes - stated a little more elegantly).

 

I expressed Reason for Homeschooling more as what our educational and developmental goals were, rather than stating it as a reaction to something at the local schools.

 

I included the academic background of the parents, because I thought it was meaningful.  We both hold advanced degrees and mine is in Education.  I don't think the Ed degree prepared me better to homeschool, but it does mean I can toss education terminology around.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

That's what makes this whole process so nerve-wracking...most questions don't have a definitive answer.  My oldest son had one school on his list that didn't accept the Common Application - I had to write two counselor letters for them if I remember correctly.

 

 

Yep, it is definitely nerve wracking.  Every acceptance felt like a little validation of our choices over the last 13 years.  

 

Unfortunately, you can't really know why a student is rejected.  Were they just average for the profile of accepted students?  Is it a highly competitive school that rejects 9/10 of highly qualified students?  Was there something missing in the application that would have made the difference?  Do they just not like homeschoolers?  You probably will never know.

 

I'm actually thinking of going to the next big college fair, just to chat with some of the reps about how they evaluate homeschool applications and what categories of information are helpful and meaningful to them.  There aren't many parents of homeschool grads around here, especially of grads who go away to college (vs CC and the local university), so there are a lot of questions for those of us who have gotten to this point.

[snowbeltmom]

(snip)

I expressed Reason for Homeschooling more as what our educational and developmental goals were, rather than stating it as a reaction to something at the local schools.

 

I included the academic background of the parents, because I thought it was meaningful.  We both hold advanced degrees and mine is in Education.  I don't think the Ed degree prepared me better to homeschool, but it does mean I can toss education terminology around.

 

I did the same - I made sure that my comments could not be conceived by any of the adcoms as bashing the public schools.

 

I also included the academic backgrounds of myself and my husband under the "Educational Partners" category.

 

[Jenny in Florida]

Interesting.  My son was accepted everywhere he applied, and he was never asked for a counselor letter.  Of course, we didn't use the common app, either.

 

Yep, my son applied to 11 colleges, nine of which required the Common App. Once he had put in the time and effort to fill out the app and upload the associated documents, he found using the Common App made it much easier and smoother to apply to other schools. He actually opted not to apply to a couple more schools he was considering, because it didn't seem worth the effort to fill out additional apps.

 

So, I'm sure it depends on which colleges the student is targeting. For my son, choosing to cross off Common App schools would have limited his choices.

[workingmom]

JeanM,

We're in the same boat. DS takes two classes at the local public school, but I don't think his counselor knows him more than the occasional form pick up and class request. I told DS to make a more concerted effort beginning of junior year to talk with her and tell her his goals, academic achievements etc. He has a strong teacher rec that got him an amazing internship and scholarship so we'll definitely use him for college rec and hoping one more from his AP Grammar teacher next year. I'm going to take the pp up on examples. I was thinking the same thing that college admissions wouldn't take it seriously especially applying to an IVY or higher tier.

[workingmom]

When should kids be looking at the common app? I'm assuming its a plug into it as you get more stuff to upload? 

[JanetC]

We're in the same boat. DS takes two classes at the local public school, but I don't think his counselor knows him more than the occasional form pick up and class request. I told DS to make a more concerted effort beginning of junior year to talk with her and tell her his goals, academic achievements etc.

 

Realize that the counselor recommender is also the person uploading the high school transcript and the school profile. So, if you want to maintain control over those (so you can describe your homeschool and home-based classes yourself), you will need to have a good working relationship with that counselor yourself. You will need to collaborate on documenting the part of his education that is outside of the public school (probably by providing documents that the other person adds on to).

 

If my kid only did a couple things at the public school, I'm not sure I'd want that school counselor to be the one in charge of packaging up a homeschool education done via multiple resources. They will be missing the big picture of what happened outside the school walls. Depending on the relationship my family had with the school system, I might also worry about the school's attitude towards homeschooling coming out directly or indirectly in the counselor portion of the app.

[Jenny in Florida]

If I could add a question here, I am wondering if a school profile could be more than one page long. Currently, I am trying to squeeze all of the above except for Educational Partners into one page. I parked Educational Partners into first page of course descriptions instead. Any thoughts on a longer school profile? Yay or nay?

 

 

The school profile I sent for my son was about 3.5 pages. It included:

• History and School Philosophy
• Educational Partners
• Community Information
• Grading and Credit
• Graduation Requirements (including an explanation of what we required to graduate our son "with honors")
• Extracurricular Activities (which included a discussion of the major role our kids' interests played in homeschooling and the ways in which homeschooling allowed them to pursue those passions)

[Jenny in Florida]

These documents we submit are our only opportunity to dispel misconceptions (if any) that an adcom may have. 

 

And that was exactly why I chose to approach transcripts and the counselor letter the way I did and to include things like the school profile, which many homeschoolers will tell you aren't necessary. I wanted my kid's application to look and feel as much as possible like those of applicants from brick and mortar schools. I never wanted his application to get set aside because an admissions person just didn't know what to do with it or because it looked unfamiliar or lacking in any way. 

 

I wanted it to be clear that we took education seriously here. And I wanted my kid to stand out from the crowd based on his own abilities and accomplishments, not because his documentation drew attention.

[snowbeltmom]

Realize that the counselor recommender is also the person uploading the high school transcript and the school profile. So, if you want to maintain control over those (so you can describe your homeschool and home-based classes yourself), you will need to have a good working relationship with that counselor yourself. You will need to collaborate on documenting the part of his education that is outside of the public school (probably by providing documents that the other person adds on to).

 

If my kid only did a couple things at the public school, I'm not sure I'd want that school counselor to be the one in charge of packaging up a homeschool education done via multiple resources. They will be missing the big picture of what happened outside the school walls. Depending on the relationship my family had with the school system, I might also worry about the school's attitude towards homeschooling coming out directly or indirectly in the counselor portion of the app.

 

I agree with the bolded: I would not want to rely on a school counselor (who probably doesn't understand the complexities of homeschooling) to be in charge of uploading my files to the Common Application. 

 

I think another option if the mom didn't want to write the counselor letter would be for the homeschool mom to assume the role of the counselor for every aspect of the Common Application except for writing the counselor letter.  The mom could ask someone else to write the letter and submit it to the mom.  The mom could then upload it to the Common Application.

 

This process described above is similar to how the National Merit folks handle the counselor letter - I was the guidance counselor as far as National Merit was concerned for every aspect of filling out the National Merit forms for every section but the recommendation letter.  The NM folks would not permit the parent to write that.  Instead, my son asked one of his mentors to write it.  The mentor then uploaded it directly to NM. 

 

[quark]

 

The school profile I sent for my son was about 3.5 pages. It included:

• History and School Philosophy
• Educational Partners
• Community Information
• Grading and Credit
• Graduation Requirements (including an explanation of what we required to graduate our son "with honors")
• Extracurricular Activities (which included a discussion of the major role our kids' interests played in homeschooling and the ways in which homeschooling allowed them to pursue those passions)

 

 

Very helpful Jenny! I was just coming back here to ask about including Extracurriculars in the school profile! And you've helpfully answered that too. Much gratitude! :thumbup1:

[learners4life]

I wrote my school profile today and it is nothing in length compared to the examples above - 1.5 pages.  I looked at examples of those from public schools, and the one given on the college board: https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

The one Jeannette Webb uses is only two pages long, with plenty of white space on the second page.

 

Anyone else do a reasonably short one?

 

[Julie of KY]

My school profile is only 1.5 pages long. Did fine for all my son's acceptances. Mine is of a similar format of the samples from public schools. In my school profile, I highlighted some of the reasons we homeschooled, parent education, and a few other things that otherwise wouldn't show up. I repeated a few things found elsewhere such as grading scale and the fact that I did not weight grades. I tried not to use it to repeat a bunch of information.

 

I did a separate document of course descriptions.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Julie of KY

[JeanM]

I wrote my school profile today and it is nothing in length compared to the examples above - 1.5 pages.  I looked at examples of those from public schools, and the one given on the college board: https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

The one Jeannette Webb uses is only two pages long, with plenty of white space on the second page.

 

Anyone else do a reasonably short one?

 

Mine was also about 1.5 pages. I will add that my ds has not yet been accepted anywhere, but no rejections either (one deferral of early decision).

[rbk mama]

Yes, I give a complete history from preschool to present day.  The educational history section is 15 paragraphs long, and my homeschool profile is 4 full pages.  I realize that length goes against the wisdom on these boards, but I have received positive feedback from more than one school.

 

I have learned a ton this year going through the recruiting process with my son - Coaches share way more than any admissions officer ever has.  More than one coach was brutally honest with me about how homeschoolers are perceived.  These documents we submit are our only opportunity to dispel misconceptions (if any) that an adcom may have. 

 

 

 

 

 

. 

 

Just realized that this is from a fairly old post.  Snowbeltmom, if you are still reading this thread - would you be willing to share some of what you've heard regarding how homeschoolers are perceived?  I can guess at a few things, but really have no idea.

[snowbeltmom]

Just realized that this is from a fairly old post.  Snowbeltmom, if you are still reading this thread - would you be willing to share some of what you've heard regarding how homeschoolers are perceived?  I can guess at a few things, but really have no idea.

Negative stereotypes die hard with some individuals, apparently.  The negative feedback we encountered had mostly to do with the ridiculous "socialization" issue.  Frankly, I was appalled to find that some supposedly educated people are so close-minded and bigoted.

 

After my senior's experience early in his recruiting process, I revised our school profile and added a paragraph that highlighted the activities that my older son was involved with on campus just in case someone in admissions who read our info was predisposed to believing the negative stereotypes as well. 

 

My son was targeting the highly selective academic schools, and the other issue that came up I felt was valid: Admissions was not interested in an applicant that was homeschooling so they could spend more time devoted to his sport.  This issue was easy to address via the transcript.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Negative stereotypes die hard with some individuals, apparently.  The negative feedback we encountered had mostly to do with the ridiculous "socialization" issue.  Frankly, I was appalled to find that some supposedly educated people are so close-minded and bigoted.

 

 

 

I ran into this a couple months back.  I was at a Model UN event and the representative of a foundation that sponsors a large local MUN conference made some comment wondering if the kids from the homeschool team found it challenging to work with other kids.

 

I was honestly speechless, given that kids from our team have earned awards at nearly every conference and have won best delegate at several.  In fact one of the kids from our team was on the planning secretariat for the conference he sponsors.  In a way it's a good thing that he didn't even realize that our kids had a different academic background.  On the other hand the lack of awareness does let the stereotype continue.