Highschool, Ex-Pat, & Dual Citizenship..

[kolamum]

We live outside the USA in a country/state where my child has been considered high school since Grade 7. I haven't really given it much though, being American, & knowing high school doesn't start there until Year 9. Here's the thing, though, that's next year for my child & I'm in a rather unique situation.

 

My child is a citizen both in our current country as well as in the USA. This means he can freely travel between the two {if he has the funds}, but it also comes with complications thanks to the IRS. Rather then bore you I'll just state he may wish to end up working or living in the USA in his future due to the complication.

 

I'd like my child to walk away with a "certificate" {diploma} from both countries. Thus he's covered regardless of where he is or what his future holds. My expectations may be high, but as there are no requirements here to be fulfilled in regards to credits whatever he did in order to work towards a US diploma would be fine.

 

So this leads me to considering an online accredited school for years 11 & 12, possibly more or possibly less {just 12} in order to be sure he's covered all that's needed & walks away with that diploma. I've looked a a few of the online options & some are a little shady & many are insanely priced considering I can send my child to a private school here for 1 year for $5,000.

 

I'm curious what, if anything, Ex-Pat's use for their children living overseas.. I'm open to suggestions & ideas.. ;)

[8filltheheart]

We were overseas when our kids were younger, but if we were overseas now, I would do the exact same thing I do now. I would create a transcript documenting their courses, course descriptions, book lists, provide test scores (including some subject tests), and I would give them a homeschool diploma.

[regentrude]

Why can you not simply homeschool and keep records according to US high school standards and then award him a high school diploma from your homeschool?

[Mom22ns]

I have quite a few friends who are missionaries and in this situation. Some have gone with international schools the last year or two of high school. Others have just continued homeschooling and have graduated them from their homeschool and sent them to college in the US. Both paths work and each has its own advantages.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I guess I'd look at it from the POV of what ultimately he needs the US diploma for.  So let's say he wants to go to college in the US.  I think his foreign diploma will work just fine for that.  Worst case scenario that it does not he could take the GED in the US.  I can't imagine a ton of instances where this would be needed.

 

The potential for snags is there, but I don't think there is any one thing you can do to make it so there would never be any snags.  For example, if he wants to go to a state school in New York, they won't recognize an on-line diploma of any kind.  I don't know how they handle foreign diplomas.  NY is kind of an unusual case, and I don't know if other states are like that.  I know this because I'm currently dealing with this! 

 

My husband graduated from high school and got his undergraduate degree in Germany.  When here in the US he wanted to go for a master's degree.  He had to pay for some sort of transcript translation service where they try to compare here and there for the purposes of entrance into college programs.  He had no trouble getting into a master's program even though stuff is done quite a bit differently where he is from.  Now our kids are both dual citizens.  I have no clue what would be needed if either of them wanted to go to school in Germany.  I figure cross that bridge if we have to.  I'm sure there are ways, but I probably cannot customize our homeschool in such a way that will work for every single potential situation in the future. 

 

If you really want to go the on-line diploma route, there are more affordable programs.  This site has a large listing:

 

http://www.thebestschools.org/rankings/best-online-high-school-diploma-programs/

 

There is one I had eyed that is just a bit more than $1200 a year.  That's not too bad.  (It was James Madison.) 

[Laura Corin]

 

 

I'm curious what, if anything, Ex-Pat's use for their children living overseas.. I'm open to suggestions & ideas.. ;)

 

As far as university entrance, the US accepts diplomas from all over the world, but just insists that applicants take the SAT (and maybe other exams) in addition.  I don't actually see the issue.

 

For example, if my dual citizen children took UK A levels, they would come out with a UK high school record, then take the SAT etc. as necessary: no need for a US diploma.

 

After all, foreigners emigrate to the US all the time without US diplomas.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Laura Corin

[Colleen in NS]

We live outside the USA in a country/state where my child has been considered high school since Grade 7. I haven't really given it much though, being American, & knowing high school doesn't start there until Year 9. Here's the thing, though, that's next year for my child & I'm in a rather unique situation.

 

My child is a citizen both in our current country as well as in the USA. This means he can freely travel between the two {if he has the funds}, but it also comes with complications thanks to the IRS. Rather then bore you I'll just state he may wish to end up working or living in the USA in his future due to the complication.

 

I'd like my child to walk away with a "certificate" {diploma} from both countries. Thus he's covered regardless of where he is or what his future holds. My expectations may be high, but as there are no requirements here to be fulfilled in regards to credits whatever he did in order to work towards a US diploma would be fine.

 

So this leads me to considering an online accredited school for years 11 & 12, possibly more or possibly less {just 12} in order to be sure he's covered all that's needed & walks away with that diploma. I've looked a a few of the online options & some are a little shady & many are insanely priced considering I can send my child to a private school here for 1 year for $5,000.

 

I'm curious what, if anything, Ex-Pat's use for their children living overseas.. I'm open to suggestions & ideas.. ;)

 

We're in the same boat (and don't even get me started about the IRS issues!!).  My kids will have the choice of which country to live and work in, but they will have their home education diploma issued by me.  Ds will go to university here, but he'll likely be able to use his degree in the States if he ever looks for work there.  Dd may spend time working in the States after high school, and I just don't think there's going to be any problem around her high school diploma.  Ds has already taken a bunch of SAT exams, and dd will take some of them (in case anyone questions their high school diplomas).

 

 

[Lori D.]

I am not familiar with international university or employer requirements from homeschoolers, but I can speak to your specific U.S. concerns. As previous posters have mentioned, your ex-pat / dual citizenship status won't really impact your homeschooling and a parent-awarded diploma.

 

US Universities:

Virtually no US university requires an accredited diploma (i.e., diploma awarded by an accredited school) from homeschoolers. Virtually all US universities, as well as all branches of the US Military (should your students wish to enlist) accept parent-awarded homeschool diplomas.

 

All universities will require that you, as the administrator of your homeschool, provide a transcript, listing all courses taken, credits earned, and grades earned, with a final total GPA. Be sure to head your transcript with the words "Final, Official Transcript" and include a specific graduation date and your signature as the administrator. Some families have found that "crimping" the transcript document with an embosser makes the transcript and diploma appear more "official" to university admission offices.

 

A small handful of universities require incoming freshmen to provide 2-4 SAT Subject test scores; most of these are schools in the Eastern US.  What virtually all universities do require is either an ACT or SAT (the SAT Reasoning test) test score, which is used not only for admission purposes, but also for awarding scholarships.

 

Most universities also require that the student have completed a basic set of credits to be eligible for admission; that usually looks something like this (with 1 credit = 1 year course):

 

4 credits = English

4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2, and often a higher 4th math with Alg. 2 as the pre-requisite)

3 credits = Science (with labs) (some schools prefer Biology and Chemistry as 2 of the credits)

3 credits = Social Science (1 credit of American History; some schools also want World History, or World Geography or Gov't/Econ)

2-4 credits = Foreign Language (of the same language)

1 credit = Fine Arts

4-8+ credits = Electives (some schools want to see several Academic Credits -- additional credits in the first 5 academic subjects above beyond the required credits; General Electives include things like PE, Health, Computer Bible/Religious Studies, additional Fine Arts credits, Vocational-Tech credits, credits in personal interest courses, etc.)

22-28+ credits = total

 

If interested in attending a selective / competitive / top tier college, your student would also likely need to have either some AP (Advanced Placement) test scores or IB (International Baccalaureate) credits, and would definitely want additional Academic Electives to be competitive.

 

Rather than looking into Accreditation, you might wish to research now what colleges your student might be interested in attending and making sure you complete all the credits needed for admission. Also, find out what the schools of interest require in the way of SAT/ACT test scores, and if they require any SAT Subject test scores, and what credits are required for freshman admission.

 

Virtually all universities accept homeschool diplomas with no question, but may require a few extra "hoops" for you to jump, such as providing a course description document, or a portfolio of sample work. So it's a good idea as you complete each year of high school to be writing up a 1-paragraph description for each credit that includes major topics covered and resources used. And to keep a handful of representative work (quizzes, tests, written essays/research papers, science lab reports, a few daily math sheets, etc.) for each credit that can be used if needed for a portfolio.

 

Since your student has been doing high school level work since grade 7, you would want to be keeping records to be able to support possible early graduation. Or, to be able to include on a transcript those credits of high school rigor accomplished in middle school (i.e.: Math that is Algebra 1 and above; Science that is Biology and above; Foreign Language, when the student takes the next levels of the language in high school). Credits not brought up from middle school: Electives, Fine Arts, English, and Social Sciences -- these are not brought up because it is difficult to prove continued progress/advanced level of work in the way that Math, Science, and Foreign Language do. Also be aware that many universities only accept credits on the transcript that were accomplished in the 4 years prior to being admitted to the university, so credits done in 7th or 8th grade may not be accepted as fulfilling college admission requirements -- however, if your student graduates 1-2 years early, then your 7th and 8th grade credits are really the 9th and 10th grade years, and so all of the credits that legitimately of high school level are accepted.

 

 

Living/Working in US:

 As far as needing an accredited diploma for your student to just live/work in the US. -- I've only once seen on these boards (years back, now), an employer who required an accredited diploma, and other than 1-2 small strange universities that required an accredited diploma, the only other institution that requires an accredited diploma are some trade schools, especially for cosmetology -- they absolutely don't bend and require either an accredited diploma or a GED.

 

One other detail about your parent-awarded diploma: be sure to actually create or purchase a diploma and award it to your student upon completion of high school so that when applying for jobs in the US and asked on the application if the student has a high school diploma, your student can truthfully answer "yes". Why this is important: employers are looking for high school graduates, and having a diploma is proof of graduation.

 

If you have concerns about how a university or employer might receive a homeschool diploma, one way to reduce potential concerns is to name your homeschool with a school name, and not include the words "homeschool" or "home educated" on the diploma. Homeschooling is legal and accepted in all states of the US, as is the awarding of diplomas by parents upon the student completing the required credits, so as long as your homeschooling is abiding by your last US state of resident's homeschool laws, your parent-awarded diploma is valid and legal.

 

 

Accreditation:

Homeschoolers who pursue accredited options usually do so for the peace of mind of not having to deal with high school record keeping, and for "just in case" their student might need an accredited diploma. If you do wish to pursue an accredited option, DO be sure that it IS legitimately accredited. Three options that are legit and have been around for a long time are: Kolbe (Catholic) Clonlara (specializes in international), and American School (secular, correspondence school). They have differing costs and course requirements, and vary in your flexibity of curricula choice.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of paperwork involved in the administrative side of homeschooling high school! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by Lori D.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

I am not familiar with international university or employer requirements from homeschoolers, but I can speak to your specific U.S. concerns. As previous posters have mentioned, your ex-pat / dual citizenship status won't really impact your homeschooling and a parent-awarded diploma.

 

Virtually no US university requires an accredited diploma (i.e., diploma awarded by an accredited school) from homeschoolers. Virtually all US universities, as well as all branches of the US Military (should your students wish to enlist) accept parent-awarded homeschool diplomas.

 

 

NY does.  I realize you said virtually.  But ...yes NY does.  Some manage to work around that requirement, but the workarounds are not straight forward and are MORE complicated than getting an accredited diploma (or GED).

[Lori D.]

NY does.  I realize you said virtually.  But ...yes NY does.  Some manage to work around that requirement, but the workarounds are not straight forward and are MORE complicated than getting an accredited diploma (or GED).

 

Empathy for your difficult situation. :grouphug:  I know this is true for NY residents attending certain NY schools (esp. the SUNY and CUNY schools), but I am not sure this also holds true for non-NY residents applying to colleges in NY, as non-NYers do not have that option of getting a letter from the educational superintendent… Much less a possibility for an international student.

 

As always, best to check directly with the schools of interest and find out exactly what their admission requirements are, and how to fulfill them if you are a non-NY resident or an international student. :)

[Laurel-in-CA]

My brother and his wife live in Spain; their kids have dual US/Canadian citizenship and speak English, French, and Spanish. When my nephew applied to university in Canada (MUCH cheaper than US), they couldn't seem to believe an english speaker was applying to university from Spain. He had to take the TESOL (a joke; he's fluent in English), despite his quite high score on the english-language SAT (which he had to take @ embassy in Madrid). They insisted on looking only at his grades from Spanish high school (passed every class by examination, in Spanish) rather than giving his SAT credibility....and his freshman-year grades were lower because it was his first year transitioning into classes in Spanish. End result, he ended up at a community college adjacent to the university he'd wanted. At which point he discovered how much cheaper the CC was and decided he'd do all the undergrad stuff he could there instead of at the university. They have a transfer agreement with the university, which he is very happy about.

 

In the end, it seemed that the Canadian university just didn't know how to treat an expat student....so they treated him like a Spaniard. It caused a lot of stress but in the end turned out well for him; his brother is going to follow the same method by choice rather than by need.

[kolamum]

Why can you not simply homeschool and keep records according to US high school standards and then award him a high school diploma from your homeschool?

 

I could, but it's a bit more complicated then that. Where I live highschool is done after 10th Grade. The next 2 years are considered College. Then, based on whatever grade you get on your end of year testing depends on IF you can move into the study of choice you want at university or if you need to retake a year of school & testing.

 

If he was going to work in the USA and/or attend university there it's possible that I could. I doubt that's his choice to be quite honest, but we have no idea what our future holds & therefore want to be prepared from all angles.

 

 

====

 

Everyone's advice is very easy in theory, but in reality it's not that clear-cut. My husband had major issues in the USA getting a job due to the lack of any US education. Yep, I know it sounds stupid, but it is what it is. He ended up working well below his qualifications & for a pay that barely kept us afloat. 

 

My brother had issues getting into the military with a homeschool diploma so that's not as clear cut as you may think either. After much pulling him back & forth & finally telling him they weren't accepting him he smiled kindly, shrugged his shoulders & said, "That's fine, my attorney from HSLDA will be in contact." that was the moment they FINALLY decided hey, no biggie we'll sign you up. Stupid, considering he now works a classified job with them.

 

I was also home educated & while I have a homeschool diploma which has served me well in all that I've endeavorer in thus far in life it has caused a few problems living where I am. I didn't finish US college/university level studies due to a family emergency, followed by my own marriage, & then my own children. So people are confused that I have a level 12 certificate but no college experience aside from the few credits I accumulated prior to having to take a leave of absence. OTO, I don't work here due to the pesky IRS laws for Ex-Pats working outside of the USA so aside from a few minor hookups it's not been a huge issue. 

 

Basically, I'd like to be sure my children are covered with some form of paperwork to prove they've done the work so they don't run into the same snags & hiccups my husband & I have run into. Does this mean no problems at all? Highly unlikely it's life. Life is fully of hiccups, snafus, & speed bumps.. I'd just like to know that whatever happened in our child's educational field isn't a part of it. ;) 

 

Having said all that, chances are pretty high we may just continue on keeping a large & definitive paper trail for him so that it can be the proof he needs. I dunno. Thank you for the first hand experiences, as well as the general opinions. Much to consider & think about.. :)

[Penguin]

Chiming in late...

 

No dual citizenship issues, but we are expats homeschooling high school through an accredited program. For us, having my son in an accredited program is/was by far the easiest way to comply with local homeschooling laws.

 

My middle son graduated from an overseas public (international) high school. I do hope that never causes him any glitches down the road. He should be getting his undergrad degree in 2017, and I hope that will be the only document that matters going forward.

 

We are using Clonlara FWIW.

[Laura Corin]

In the end, it seemed that the Canadian university just didn't know how to treat an expat student....so they treated him like a Spaniard. It caused a lot of stress but in the end turned out well for him; his brother is going to follow the same method by choice rather than by need.

 

This is true in the UK university where I work too.  If you did not have your education in an English-speaking school, then you have to take an English test.  I don't think of that as being a huge issue though.  A South African student hit this problem because his schooling had been in Afrikaans, even though he is bilingual.  He took the test.

 

 

 

Everyone's advice is very easy in theory, but in reality it's not that clear-cut. My husband had major issues in the USA getting a job due to the lack of any US education. Yep, I know it sounds stupid, but it is what it is. He ended up working well below his qualifications & for a pay that barely kept us afloat. 

 

 

 

I'm sorry he had such a hard time.  I arrived in the US with only British qualifications and was hired at an appropriate level.  I wonder if some industries are more open than others?

Edited May 1, 2016 by Laura Corin

[Jackie]

Perhaps look at Clonlara? They are accredited, but basically certify your homeschooling for credit.

 

I am not an expat (...yet) and keep Clonlara in the back of my mind in case I essentially needed a cover school.

[nobeatenpath]

I could, but it's a bit more complicated then that. Where I live highschool is done after 10th Grade. The next 2 years are considered College. Then, based on whatever grade you get on your end of year testing depends on IF you can move into the study of choice you want at university or if you need to retake a year of school & testing.

 

What state are you in? In most of Australia end of year 10 is the time to take your junior certificate, end of year 12 you take your senior certificate, and to most Australians end of year 12 is the end of highschool (and students rarely leave at the end of year 10 now, most go on to year 12). The concept of 'college' before university is not a usual one in Australia. Admittedly, the Senior certificate stuff in Australia is closer to AP than US highschool graduation, but what you are describing doesn't sound like highschool as most Australians would imagine it.

[kolamum]

I could, but it's a bit more complicated then that. Where I live highschool is done after 10th Grade. The next 2 years are considered College. Then, based on whatever grade you get on your end of year testing depends on IF you can move into the study of choice you want at university or if you need to retake a year of school & testing.

 

What state are you in? In most of Australia end of year 10 is the time to take your junior certificate, end of year 12 you take your senior certificate, and to most Australians end of year 12 is the end of highschool (and students rarely leave at the end of year 10 now, most go on to year 12). The concept of 'college' before university is not a usual one in Australia. Admittedly, the Senior certificate stuff in Australia is closer to AP than US highschool graduation, but what you are describing doesn't sound like highschool as most Australians would imagine it.

 

We are in Tassie.. Kids leave highschool after Grade 10 & the official Leaver's Dinner. They march on to College {11 & 12} part of the Educational Act 2016 is to have highschools offer grades 11 & 12, but the problem is they have no teachers at the schools for that purpose so without more money for education it's unlikely to happen as children will continue on as they have been. It's been like this for the entire 10+ years we've lived in Tassie. I've watched each of my nieces graduate in this fashion & march on to college then university.. 

 

However, there are a large sum of children in my state/area who do not continue forward afterward either. They are changing rules now so that they have to continue onward until age 18 or obtain one, of a variety of things. That's if the EA-2016 goes through.  Either way, it would be a lot easier if highschool was through grade 12, but it's not.. it's 7-10 here. :)

[kolamum]

Perhaps look at Clonlara? They are accredited, but basically certify your homeschooling for credit.

 

I am not an expat (...yet) and keep Clonlara in the back of my mind in case I essentially needed a cover school.

 

Mm, haven't heard of this I'll have to check it out. That sounds interesting that home school counts.. Thanks for mentioning it! :)

[nobeatenpath]

Ah, Tasmania, always a bit different :) So what you are describing makes sense. I hope you are able to ascertain a solution that works for your kids!

 

[Mbelle]

My dh is from Tassie and we live in the US.  Granted we are old and have been here going on 20 years and he was not homeschooled. 

He went on to 'college' after High School.  He attended a Semester or two of University in Tas.

He is currently enrolled in University in the US and he had no problems with his transcripts being accepted. 

Getting his birth certificate was more problematic.  

He hasn't had any problems with employment.  

 

 

[Penguin]

Mm, haven't heard of this I'll have to check it out. That sounds interesting that home school counts.. Thanks for mentioning it! :)

We are an expat family using Clonlara.

[Mom22ns]

Can I just say, Good for you OP, for taking it seriously. I have now met a few homeschoolers whose families didn't take documentation seriously and who have had a hard time with employers/higher ed because of it. While MOST of the time, these things aren't really issues, only fears, carefully examining the possibilities and making sure you have done your best to keep all the options open for your ds is a good thing. :)

[nobeatenpath]

Good for you OP, for taking it seriously.

 

 

Despite my dig about Tasmania (which I actually think is a great place - just that automatic 'other states' reaction) I feel you on this one. As ex-pats ourselves, who have no idea what our next country of residence is going to be or where our son is going to go on to further education and work; being Australian yet having spent time in the UK but finding so much of the homeschool world is best seen through a US lens;  enjoying being 'global citizens' but having to deal with the reality of how it affects our kid - I get what you are trying to get your head around!

[kolamum]

We are an expat family using Clonlara.

 

Ahh, I'm glad to know someone who is using it. So if you have a moment would you mind answering a few quick questions? 

 

Can one pick their own curriculum to use & report to Clonlara or is that a waste of time/money to not use what they provide? My only major concern with their outline for High School is the Community Service, but I'm sure we can figure that out considering we have a nursing home on the corner, & the dog's home is always looking for volunteers to help walk the dogs. I did most of my community service work for highschool working with a Humane Society in the us so hopefully that would count.

 

I'm not sure at all what I'll do or what I'll use or if I'll stray from my beaten path & just up my anty with record keeping, but I am curious about Clonlara.. I was told about another one {outside of the forum} which I must look up as well..

 

North Atlantic Regional High School I believe is the name that was suggested to me if anyone else is keen to look into it or knows anything about it.

[Penguin]

Ahh, I'm glad to know someone who is using it. So if you have a moment would you mind answering a few quick questions? 

No problem.

 

Can one pick their own curriculum to use & report to Clonlara or is that a waste of time/money to not use what they provide? My only major concern with their outline for High School is the Community Service, but I'm sure we can figure that out considering we have a nursing home on the corner, & the dog's home is always looking for volunteers to help walk the dogs. I did most of my community service work for highschool working with a Humane Society in the us so hopefully that would count.

 

They do not provide curriculum. Maybe they do if you ask for it, but we have chosen everything ourselves. In this regard, I have found them super easy to work with.

 

I was also worried about the community service requirement, but it has a broad scope. You could email them with specific questions about the community service, but what you mentioned looks like it would be perfect to me. We intentionally sought out a non-profit for the service hours, and DS has had no problem hitting the hour mark.

 

I asked a lot of questions before signing up, and also set up a conference call. I found them to be very responsive, and I was not misled in any way. I have had only one thorny issue, and that is with the Honors designation. You can PM me about that if you want.

 

Overall, I am VERY pleased with Clonlara so far. They take a holistic view of education, and I certainly feel like I remain in control.

 

I'm not sure at all what I'll do or what I'll use or if I'll stray from my beaten path & just up my anty with record keeping, but I am curious about Clonlara.. I was told about another one {outside of the forum} which I must look up as well..

 

North Atlantic Regional High School I believe is the name that was suggested to me if anyone else is keen to look into it or knows anything about it.