Gov't bailout--catch-up thoughts

[Aubrey]

I just read an article about the bailout. I've sort-of accepted that it's terrible but necessary & figure there's nothing I can do about it anyway. But 2 things bother me.

 

1. There was a special stipulation about the CEOs of bailed-out companies not getting too much pay. They worded it more officially, but you get the idea. And I thought of Enron. And the bailed-out airlines. Seems like the little guys keep footing the bill for the big guys. Kwim?

 

Not only should those guys not be RICH at the end of this, I'd bet you some of them OUGHT to end up in jail. I could be wrong.

 

2. Is it just me, or do you have this creepy feeling that the gov't has just taken over ala Communism? Whether or not taxpayers get to be shareholders...the gov't will now legally own...what is it? 75% of the real estate. I wish I'd thought of it. It would have made great sci-fi.

[Marie in Oh]

I just read an article about the bailout. I've sort-of accepted that it's terrible but necessary & figure there's nothing I can do about it anyway. But 2 things bother me.

 

1. There was a special stipulation about the CEOs of bailed-out companies not getting too much pay. They worded it more officially, but you get the idea. And I thought of Enron. And the bailed-out airlines. Seems like the little guys keep footing the bill for the big guys. Kwim?

 

Not only should those guys not be RICH at the end of this, I'd bet you some of them OUGHT to end up in jail. I could be wrong.

 

2. Is it just me, or do you have this creepy feeling that the gov't has just taken over ala Communism? Whether or not taxpayers get to be shareholders...the gov't will now legally own...what is it? 75% of the real estate. I wish I'd thought of it. It would have made great sci-fi.

 

yes, that smacks of socialism. Surprise, surprise.

[Mama Lynx]

Yeah. It's scary. On the one hand, if the government is going to hand out this much money, it seems that some kind of equity stake makes sense. On the other hand .... Holy COW!!!!!!!!! :leaving:

 

What will the government's final bill look like? Will they tie it in to a bill to fund the government (a rumor I just heard)? Will John McCain make it to the debate on time? If not, will Barack Obama debate himself, and if so will he win, or lose? Will Joe Biden remember that TV did not exist during the Depression? If we tell Sarah Palin that senators are really just like moose, will she buy it? These questions and more answered on the next episode of "As The Stomach Turns ..."

 

Oooh. I think my blood sugar must be low. LOL. I think it could all be a sci-fi story. Or absurdist, anyway. Maybe the conspiracy theorists are right. Let's see ... the government swings a deal to own most of the housing in the U.S.; meanwhile, the shenanigans between McCain and Obama are actually carefully crafted to hide the fact that they're setting up the takeover of the U.S. by ....

 

?

 

 

(leaving to get chocolate and protein)

[Murphy101]

My understanding is that the gov't is supposed to turn around and sell off whatever they get? I guess similiar to when the IRS gets property or whatever from liens on unpaid taxes?

 

And yes, I think they (which is us taxpayers!) should get something for the bail out.

 

I don't know how I feel about the bail out.

 

I don't think it's going to do the average tax payer a lick of good.

 

They keep talking about freeing up credit, but the bottom line is a LOT of this is because people who shouldn't have gotten credit got it and couldn't pay it back for whatever reason. If the only point of freeing up credit is to spread more debt around - well I don't see that doing most folks I know much good. The smart folsk don't want the credit - they shovling as best they can to get out from under it!

 

I also don't see how this is going to prevent people losing homes. Just because the morgage company stays in business does not mean they aren't going to continue with the forclosure of a delinquent home.

 

I just really don't beleive this is going to help us average folks.

All I see is big gov't helping big business and little people still getting cra**y wages that can't pay their basic needs being told to be more responsible with money they don't have to begin with.

 

I might be slightly jaded though.;)

[Stacy in NJ]

I just read an article about the bailout. I've sort-of accepted that it's terrible but necessary & figure there's nothing I can do about it anyway. But 2 things bother me.

 

1. There was a special stipulation about the CEOs of bailed-out companies not getting too much pay. They worded it more officially, but you get the idea. And I thought of Enron. And the bailed-out airlines. Seems like the little guys keep footing the bill for the big guys. Kwim?

 

Not only should those guys not be RICH at the end of this, I'd bet you some of them OUGHT to end up in jail. I could be wrong.

 

2. Is it just me, or do you have this creepy feeling that the gov't has just taken over ala Communism? Whether or not taxpayers get to be shareholders...the gov't will now legally own...what is it? 75% of the real estate. I wish I'd thought of it. It would have made great sci-fi.

 

A couple thoughts regarding...

 

1. While it's beyond belief that the CEO of these companies get such unbelievable payoff after taking incredibly stupid risks, keep in mind that the politicians who were suppose to be responsible for regulating Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac are even more culpable. It was their job. They failed us once again.:glare:

 

Also, it's not just the politicians, investment houses, mortgage brokers and hedge funds who are responsible for this mess. This is happening because government policy encouraged lending to poor risk consumers (individual mortgage holders). The homeowner who puts no money down, has no equity in their home, sees the value of their home drop to below note value, defaults on said note, is as responsible as the big guys.

 

2. It's does feel icky and I'm uncomfortable with it. But, like you, I don't see an alternative. Keep in mind, though, that many of those notes the government will own are "good" notes. I huge aspect of this debacle is that packaged along with all those subprime mortages are prime mortages. They'll need to sort the good from the bad.

[hsmamainva]

What will the government's final bill look like? Will they tie it in to a bill to fund the government (a rumor I just heard)? Will John McCain make it to the debate on time? If not, will Barack Obama debate himself, and if so will he win, or lose? Will Joe Biden remember that TV did not exist during the Depression? If we tell Sarah Palin that senators are really just like moose, will she buy it? These questions and more answered on the next episode of "As The Stomach Turns ..."

 

ROTFLOL!!!!

 

Thanks for the chuckle!! I needed it!!!

 

:lol:

[Tracey in TX]

 

 

Is it just me, or do you have this creepy feeling that the gov't has just taken over ala Communism? Whether or not taxpayers get to be shareholders...the gov't will now legally own...what is it? 75% of the real estate.

 

When Bush said "fellow citizens" last night in his speech, I had an out of body experience wondering if this is what a former communist felt like listening to his supreme comrade talking. What have we done? This isn't party politics,as it's transpired over both Bush and Clinton's terms. The blame is to be placed across the board. And the clean up crew is each tax paying American. What will we get for this? Probably more headaches.

[Blessedchaos]

What will the government's final bill look like? Will they tie it in to a bill to fund the government (a rumor I just heard)? Will John McCain make it to the debate on time? If not, will Barack Obama debate himself, and if so will he win, or lose? Will Joe Biden remember that TV did not exist during the Depression? If we tell Sarah Palin that senators are really just like moose, will she buy it? These questions and more answered on the next episode of "As The Stomach Turns ..."

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[K&Rs Mom]

Also, it's not just the politicians, investment houses, mortage brokers and hedge funds who are responsible for this mess. This is happening because government policy encouraged lending to poor risk consumers (individual mortage holders).

 

And their proposal to fix it is more government guarantees. :confused: I disagree that it's necessary (though totally agree that it's terrible). The only constructive suggestion I've seen, though, is to contact our federal representatives, which really doesn't do much good when they've already made up their minds.

 

I heard on the radio tonight some perspective on what $700B could otherwise purchase - things like 2 Starbucks a day for a year for everyone in Brazil, or a 3-day pass to Disney for everyone in America. Hearing the perspective like that really made me wonder how this number got so huge. Even if EVERY person who had a bad debt was given enough to pay it off, it probably wouldn't be $700 BILLION.

[Michelle in MO]

I just read an article about the bailout. I've sort-of accepted that it's terrible but necessary & figure there's nothing I can do about it anyway. But 2 things bother me.

 

1. There was a special stipulation about the CEOs of bailed-out companies not getting too much pay. They worded it more officially, but you get the idea. And I thought of Enron. And the bailed-out airlines. Seems like the little guys keep footing the bill for the big guys. Kwim?

 

Not only should those guys not be RICH at the end of this, I'd bet you some of them OUGHT to end up in jail. I could be wrong.

 

2. Is it just me, or do you have this creepy feeling that the gov't has just taken over ala Communism? Whether or not taxpayers get to be shareholders...the gov't will now legally own...what is it? 75% of the real estate. I wish I'd thought of it. It would have made great sci-fi.

 

but honestly, it wouldn't bother me to see them get jail time. I think we'll have to see the final legislation, though, before passing judgment. The last I read is that they were under investigation by the FBI.

 

Yes---government takeover is not my thing. I don't know whether I should accept this as a necessary evil or not, but it appears that the deal is going forward, no matter what. My dh and I don't believe in corporate welfare, but it seems like this bailout is going to happen.

[Citrusheights5]

I wish there was an answer/magic wand/solution that would fix everything. ugh..

 

I hear so much about how no one really understands it... but... but.. I do-- not as an expert, but I have a good understanding of how mortgage backed securities work, and why they are valued at nothing even though they are worth something. I understand how these companies were using these to acquire liquidity to fund their businesses. .. Just because you don't like the answer I have, does not means I don't understand.. It just means I have a different opinion....

 

I believe a crash is going to happen. The bubble has burst... we are in a downward trend... It will turn back up.. but it will get ugly before then...

 

If we bail out now, we are postponing it.. not doing away with it.... The fall will be that much harder..

 

If we let the economy crash, today.... I believe that it will recover quickly... Hundreds of thousands will loose jobs, credit will be hard to come by (it will go by previous terms.. 20% down a good credit score etc), But for that to happen assets (houses etc) have to come down to a point to where people can afford them again.. IT SUCKS>> no.. really..It will REALLY REALLY SUCK.. but... recovery will come.. If another bubble is allowed to form before we deal with this one- the crash will be exponentially worst.

 

Take a look at this video it compares the ## from great depression to now.. http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=867640705

 

Again.. I think it is bad.. and a recession will be bad.. but it will not be a depression.... If we keep propping up these institutions, when it does crash.. it will lead to a depression.. Again this is my opinion... and not a very popular one-- at least to the people I know..

 

IF nothing else I really appreciate the space to give my opinion...

[fractalgal]

I just read an article about the bailout. I've sort-of accepted that it's terrible but necessary & figure there's nothing I can do about it anyway. But 2 things bother me.

 

1. There was a special stipulation about the CEOs of bailed-out companies not getting too much pay. They worded it more officially, but you get the idea. And I thought of Enron. And the bailed-out airlines. Seems like the little guys keep footing the bill for the big guys. Kwim?

 

Not only should those guys not be RICH at the end of this, I'd bet you some of them OUGHT to end up in jail. I could be wrong.

 

2. Is it just me, or do you have this creepy feeling that the gov't has just taken over ala Communism? Whether or not taxpayers get to be shareholders...the gov't will now legally own...what is it? 75% of the real estate. I wish I'd thought of it. It would have made great sci-fi.

 

I am very much against this current bailout they are proposing in Washington. It should not happen. It will cost MUCH MORE than we are being told. The taxpayer will NOT get their money back for this. There is no reform written into this. There is no guarantee this will work.

 

The fact that they are trying to get this passed so quickly is a very red flag. If this is so important why can't we understand it for awhile before they send it through. This will affect our children and grandchildren.

 

I encourage everyone to contact their congressmen and congresswoman and tell them to vote against it.

 

What we are heading for is a BIGGER government, and the goverment owning equity in businesses. This is the path to socialism.

 

It does not matter if you are a Democrat or a Republican, this is not good for America, nor is it good for capitalism no matter what we are being told.

 

I do understand numbers, and this is not good.

 

We have to pay attention to what they are doing in Congress and not simply TRUST them because they are either a Republican or Democrat.

[mommylaw]

:iagree:

Plus, the $700 billion dollar bailout plan includes the following provisions for review of decisions by Pauslon.

 

"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." :001_huh:

 

This goes beyond party politics. Please do something NOW. Otherwise we are going to have to explain to our children why we handed over unlimited power to un-elected cabinet heads as we headed down this road to socialism. The Secretary of the Treasury is an appointed position. We did not vote for this person.

 

The wisdom of the bailout, and whatever new regulations people think are needed, if any, is beside the point. The point is are we going to have a government of laws, or of men?

[Peela]

I am very much against this current bailout they are proposing in Washington. It should not happen. It will cost MUCH MORE than we are being told. The taxpayer will NOT get their money back for this. There is no reform written into this. There is no guarantee this will work.

 

The fact that they are trying to get this passed so quickly is a very red flag. If this is so important why can't we understand it for awhile before they send it through. This will affect our children and grandchildren.

 

I encourage everyone to contact their congressmen and congresswoman and tell them to vote against it.

 

What we are heading for is a BIGGER government, and the goverment owning equity in businesses. This is the path to socialism.

 

It does not matter if you are a Democrat or a Republican, this is not good for America, nor is it good for capitalism no matter what we are being told.

 

I do understand numbers, and this is not good.

 

We have to pay attention to what they are doing in Congress and not simply TRUST them because they are either a Republican or Democrat.

 

I agree. I feel it is actually sinister, and they did see it coming, and the government is NOT on your side, whatever you may like to think.

However, maybe it will take a lot of very angry people to balance things in the long run once they realise what freedoms they have lost. Meanwhile......don't trust the government is doing anything that is beyond self interested.

[Stacy in NJ]

While I'm highly suspicious of government in all it's forms, I think it's a paranoid to see anything more than run of the mill human incompetence in this. This is no sinister plot designed to steal our rights. Our rights are guaranteed by our Constitution, not granted by politicians. America is not, nor has it been, threaten by totalitarianism or socialism, for that matter. Our elections this November, both congresssional and presidental, will go on as they have continiously for over 200 years.

[K&Rs Mom]

Our rights are guaranteed by our Constitution, not granted by politicians. America is not, nor has it been, threaten by totalitarianism or socialism, for that matter. Our elections this November, both congresssional and presidental, will go on as they have continiously for over 200 years.

 

Those politicians have been chipping away at the constitution for 200 years. Elections may happen, but with only two parties and very little difference between them (regardless of all the namecalling), so what if it's called an election? :glare:

[Stacy in NJ]

Those politicians have been chipping away at the constitution for 200 years. Elections may happen, but with only two parties and very little difference between them (regardless of all the namecalling), so what if it's called an election? :glare:

 

It certainly isn't perfect but than nothing created by man ever is.

 

As Winston Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others."

[mcconnellboys]

It's certaily socialism, if not communism.

 

I believe the top execs at these companies should be forced to cough up at least 75% of their take home, bonuses, etc. for the past 5 years, for starters.... And I'd love to see jail time, if it's NOT at one of the swank joints that more closely resemble some sort of retreat than jail. Jail time with WORK. Manual labor.....

[lovemyboys]

I encourage everyone to contact their congressmen and congresswoman and tell them to vote against it.

 

What we are heading for is a BIGGER government, and the goverment owning equity in businesses. This is the path to socialism.

 

It does not matter if you are a Democrat or a Republican, this is not good for America, nor is it good for capitalism no matter what we are being told.

 

I do understand numbers, and this is not good.

 

We have to pay attention to what they are doing in Congress and not simply TRUST them because they are either a Republican or Democrat.

 

Congresswoman Pelosi is advocating for bailing out ANYONE who is behind in credit card debt or mortgage payments.

 

I cannot. believe. my. ears. What in the world is she thinking?? Are others in agreement with her? This really scares me.

 

I'm for stabilizing this situation -- which is NOT as dire as the Great Depression. But that doesn't not include a blank check on our children's future. And it sure does not include everyone that makes a bad investment or gets behind on their mastercard. That is not what this current situation is about.

 

There's a reason people flock to this country, because we are a democracy and a capitalist country, and it works. Socialism has failed in country after country. Acckk. If you're from Calif., call your representatives and urge them to stand against Pelosi's proposals on this -- it would be lunacy. We owe our kids that much -- to speak up against it.

[lovemyboys]

It's certaily socialism, if not communism.

 

I believe the top execs at these companies should be forced to cough up at least 75% of their take home, bonuses, etc. for the past 5 years, for starters.....

 

Thank You!!

[Stacy in NJ]

It's certaily socialism, if not communism.

 

I believe the top execs at these companies should be forced to cough up at least 75% of their take home, bonuses, etc. for the past 5 years, for starters.... And I'd love to see jail time, if it's NOT at one of the swank joints that more closely resemble some sort of retreat than jail. Jail time with WORK. Manual labor.....

 

 

While I have no sympathy for the CEO's, it's really alot more than just irresponsibility and greed on their part that's caused this situations.

 

1. Fanny and Fred are responsible for guaranteeing via the US government bad credit. These are corrupt institutions used politically as a gravy train for certain interests. The US Congress is responsible for oversight and policy regarding Fanny and Freddy.

 

2. The Fed worked relentless to keep interest rates down causing cheap money (too much liquidity in the market). Easy credit, in otherwords.

 

3. Rating agencies like Standards & Poor and Moody's were overly influenced by corporate interests. They're in bed with the companies their suppose to monitor via credit ratings. They provided ratings to mortgage backed securities that were obviously not credible.

 

4. Investment houses like Goldman, Lehman and Morgan bundled up Fanny and Freddy's nasty subprime mortgages and sold them in cooperation with hedge funds to international investors, who also short sold them to hedge their funds.

 

It took alot of incredibly stupid people working together to cause this situation. It would so much easier if it were just greedy corporate types.

[mcconnellboys]

Oh yes, I've got plenty of room in my ideal prison for every culpable official, too! I hope to see stringent laws passed as a result of this which will better regulate some of the sorts of activities that have run amuck in this case. I'm not sure I have any confidence that lobbyists and politicians won't find a way around any law ever passed, but still.....

[mcconnellboys]

Oh, and I meant to say, "Could we please, *please* now outlaw lobbying?"

[OhM]

Report of House Republicans' alternative plan

 

I saw this alluded to on a conservative blog, but had to search far and wide for any reporting on it. The last several paragraphs here outline it.

 

They're calling for use of private capital instead of gov't $$$. The Hill report doesn't mention it, but the item in NR's Corner mentioned temporary tax relief measures to free up capital.

 

I agree with concerns expressed in this thread. I hope this plan gets consideration before they throw more of our money (and the national debt) at the problem.

[Retired]

* GO Richard Shelby he is the lead republican on the banking committee.* He has stated from the beginning the Paulson plan stinks.* He doesn't want the Paulson plan at all.* He and so many republicans do not think the plan is sound.Bush may be a republican but he spends money like a Democrat.* I believe that we have a problem but I also believe that if buying up all those bad mortgages/bank stuff is going to make up money when the market stabilizes. This is the argument that is being played on TV.* The government bails out the default loan at a low price and sells off later making money for the tax payer.* Well if thats the case why aren't the very rich with a capitalized market not buying up the cheap stuff and wait to sell higher.

I am glad someone in Congress is asking the same questions. Way to go house republicans

[Mrs Mungo]

1. There was a special stipulation about the CEOs of bailed-out companies not getting too much pay. They worded it more officially, but you get the idea. And I thought of Enron. And the bailed-out airlines. Seems like the little guys keep footing the bill for the big guys. Kwim?

 

I think this is one of the things that is a sticking point in the negotiations right now because the Dems are insisting on salary caps for the CEOs.

 

Since we're talking publically owned companies I don't think they should get paid more than the highest paid government employee. That's the president who makes $400K/year. PERSONALLY, I'd like to see their salaries limited to the highest paid military person's pay. A 4 star general with 25 years in makes around $200K/year.