ktgrok Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'm having my regular blood work (post weight loss surgery) on monday, and I'm curious where my TSH will be, as it has gotten higher each time I've had it drawn over the past few years. Last was at 3.75. I figured huh, if it keeps going up over time like this I'll be in the abnormal range some day. But last night, while reading, I saw that some say that anything over 3 IS abnormal! Um? So is the over 3 thing truly abnormal, or is that just a tinfoil hat type thing? My only symptoms would be slow weight loss, cold feet, getting chilled easily, and maybe dry skin. I don't know if it really is dry or I'm just a big baby and hate dry skin of any kind....if that makes sense. Not sure about menstrual irregularities because I have the Mirena IUD and that messes things up on it's own. Oh and in the past few months my nails break easily but I chalked that up to post weight loss surgery or something even though at last check vitamin levels and protein levels were good. Assuming it comes back the same or higher, what do I do? Anything? My regular doctors don't seem concerned at the 3.75 level so I assume they go by the lab reference range of up to 4.5 is normal. Would I just talk to them about it, or need to see someone else? I don't want to make a big deal of this if it really isn't a big deal...but I don't want to ignore something important either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) I like this site a lot: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ I have no answers other than it seems most books and sites do recommend more tests than the TSH to investigate thyroid health. My TSH is over 6 by the way. wheee. The more I read, the less I fell like I know in this area. It seems so interrelated to other hormonal levels and liver health. Good luck! Edited January 30, 2016 by Silver Brook 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 If your TSH is any higher, I would request a full thyroid panel, including antibodies. If there is resistance to that idea, I would consider seeking out a different doctor. With the results of a full panel, the picture will become clearer as to whether supplementation is indicated. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 If your TSH is any higher, I would request a full thyroid panel, including antibodies. If there is resistance to that idea, I would consider seeking out a different doctor. With the results of a full panel, the picture will become clearer as to whether supplementation is indicated. Thank you! That's a very clear,concise answer that makes a lot of sense and gives me a direction to go in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'm having my regular blood work (post weight loss surgery) on monday, and I'm curious where my TSH will be, as it has gotten higher each time I've had it drawn over the past few years. Last was at 3.75. I figured huh, if it keeps going up over time like this I'll be in the abnormal range some day. But last night, while reading, I saw that some say that anything over 3 IS abnormal! Um? So is the over 3 thing truly abnormal, or is that just a tinfoil hat type thing? My only symptoms would be slow weight loss, cold feet, getting chilled easily, and maybe dry skin. I don't know if it really is dry or I'm just a big baby and hate dry skin of any kind....if that makes sense. Not sure about menstrual irregularities because I have the Mirena IUD and that messes things up on it's own. Oh and in the past few months my nails break easily but I chalked that up to post weight loss surgery or something even though at last check vitamin levels and protein levels were good. Assuming it comes back the same or higher, what do I do? Anything? My regular doctors don't seem concerned at the 3.75 level so I assume they go by the lab reference range of up to 4.5 is normal. Would I just talk to them about it, or need to see someone else? I don't want to make a big deal of this if it really isn't a big deal...but I don't want to ignore something important either. That is way too high. Just because it is "normal" doesn't mean it is good for you. "Normal" includes the whole range, from "Wow, I feel great" to "What the heck? I can't even!" The closer to 0 your TSH is, the better. TSH (thyroid synthesizing hormone) is not even a measure of your thyroid. It is a measure of the hormone produced by your pituitary gland because your thyroid is not functioning properly. Your doctor needs to test, at a minimum, your Free T3 and Free T4 (I cannot tell you what those stand for, because my head explodes when I start reading what everything is and what it means, lol). *Those* actually measure thyroid . At this point, you need to be medicated, preferably with a natural desiccated thyroid (NDT) such as Armour or NatureThroid. If you cannot get your doctor to order at least the thyroid basics, find another doctor who will. Seriously. I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, an autoimmune disease that affects the thyroid. I believe I have Hashi's because my doctors undermedicated me for 20 years. I didn't know any better. I accepted what they said, even though I wasn't feeling *right.* Don't be Ellie. :-) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 My doc says TSH is a measure that tells how loudly your brain is having to yell to get the body to produce thyroid hormone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 For me to conceive and carry through the first trimester, my TSH has to be between 1-2.5. I had standing lab orders so that I could come in and get tested the same day I got a positive test. A lot of women will have a dip in their thyroid production during week 4 or 5 of pregnancy that can lead to an early miscarriage. I'm sharing this not to make you paranoid, but because issues like this are more complicated when you are AMA. I went a few years with secondary infertility trying to figure this out. My first three kids were all born within 3.5 years, and then I had a four year gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 For me to conceive and carry through the first trimester, my TSH has to be between 1-2.5. I had standing lab orders so that I could come in and get tested the same day I got a positive test. A lot of women will have a dip in their thyroid production during week 4 or 5 of pregnancy that can lead to an early miscarriage. I'm sharing this not to make you paranoid, but because issues like this are more complicated when you are AMA. I went a few years with secondary infertility trying to figure this out. My first three kids were all born within 3.5 years, and then I had a four year gap. this one reason I'm thinking I need to be more proactive about this. I have never, thanks be to God, had a miscarriage but I don't want to start now if I can help it. When I get my lab results I'll call up my primary care doctor and see about getting a full panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I think I posted a link to the general stopthethyroidmadness site. Here are some recommended labs. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labworks This site does a good job about explaining results as well. ​ Sorry, if my earlier post wasn't clear. Are your liver enzymes elevated? There is sometimes a link between liver function and thyroid functioning. It may be helpful to hand carry your lab results over the last few visits to show the upward trend. HTH 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 to really know - you need to know about FREE t3 & t4. . . . I asked my dr to run those - she did total. I *again* asked my dr to run those - and she said "you're insurance won't pay for it". (I've made an appointment with a new dr., but can't get until march. I'm getting annoyed having to do blood work ever two months. she won't write a rx for more than 3 months.) optimum is much lower than 3. based on the TSH - my dr has given me rx for synthroid/levothyroxin that keeps my levels around 4. I'm still symptomatic. after doing more reading - I started taking emerald labs thyroid. it contains 350mg of desicated bovine thyroid (from new zealand). within a month, my tsh was below 2 - and now my dr won't call in a new thyroid refill, but wants me to come back (again) for more blood work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I saw a new Dr last week. Did her medical training in another country and she had completely different ideas about my thyroid stuff. Which it nice. At this point I want to try something other than keeping on the same path right!?!? My TSH was well over the normal. Explains my weight gain these past 2 months even with dieting/exercise. She actually didn't increase my dosage like we talked, but ended up adding cytomel to the mix. So now I am taking T3 and T4 which no Dr in 20 years has ever offered. I feel pretty good. Less napping. I wake up and am not dragging. I am sleeping better. I have some energy!!! I did push this Dr some and asked about adrenal issues, but she wants to start with my thyroid and see what we can do. She did a lot of labs which I appreciated. I hate when they only do the TSH. This lady was willing to try something else even though my other numbers were 'normal range'. They were low on the normal though. So far I am very happy with this new medicine mix. And if it doesn't get my TSH lower then we will up the dosage. As for Armour...I took it for years. I felt better most days on it. It has wide swings of feeling awesome and feeling bad. Think big wavelength of emotions. Synthroid has a smaller wavelength so I don't get the swings. I was either super energized or a zombie on Armour. The lows were really bad. On Synthroid I am constantly having to adjust my meds. It doesn't stay the same for a year like they want lol. But I don't have those wide emotional swings which I needed to stop. You have to figure out what works for you. And I agree that finding a new Dr if they aren't working with you is most important. I had to stop being stubborn though and try what they wanted. I know a lot, but sometimes they do have good ideas even if I don't think I will like it. LOL Work with them. Try their idea, and if it doesn't help and they won't change your course then change Drs. Mine allowed me to push some...but was firm in trying this new medicine before we got crazy. And it's good...glad I gave her the chance to try this. Good luck. Awful stuff this thyroid disease. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Good luck. Awful stuff this thyroid disease. I've also done some of the hasimoto/autoimmune/antiinflamitory diet (well, cut out all sugar and breads, and upped protein), and felt better. May be why I felt so miserable after thanksgiving . . . an even bigger reason for me to switch is a homozygous mutation I have. my dr did test for it - but she *really* isn't experienced at treating it. (dudeling sees an ND who also works with this, so I know some.) I switched to a ND who is very focused on this particular mutation. I'm hoping she'll also be more helpful with the thyroid. my dd's provider also tested her - she's also homozygous - and was told it wasn't a big deal. I hit the roof when I found that out. she's also now going to a dr who is lisenced as a GP - but trained in her home country as a gyn with a phd in endocrinology. she's already looking at her in a completely new way from every dr she's seen here. I'm hopeful she'll get help. finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I think I posted a link to the general stopthethyroidmadness site. Here are some recommended labs. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labworks This site does a good job about explaining results as well. ​ Sorry, if my earlier post wasn't clear. Are your liver enzymes elevated? There is sometimes a link between liver function and thyroid functioning. It may be helpful to hand carry your lab results over the last few visits to show the upward trend. HTH do you know of any sites that have more information on the link between thyroid and liver? my dr focuses almost exclusively on liver, and is fine-and-dandy when my tsh is around 4 (even though I'm not feeling better . . . .) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Yes, get a full panel. Not all hypothyroidism has the same root or presents he same way. I have low tsh, so they kept ignoring my symptoms. It turns out every other thyroid hormone I produce is in the extremely low range as well because my adrenal gland wasn't properly signaling my thyroid. They didn't catch it for several years - more data is better. Symptoms are what I'd go by personally. It sounds like you have some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 My liver enzymes are fine...my only abnormality in my blood work recently has been low cholesterol, which is probably genetic...my mom always has low numbers as well. (Low LDL...HDL ranges from normal to ideal). My A1C was borderline last time, which I thought odd given that I'm on a low carb diet and such, so I'm interested to see where that is. Could have just been from the stress of surgery I think. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Have you ever seen an endocrinologist? I would ask your PCP for a referral. Say because you're concerned it keeps increasing. S/he will likely run a bunch of tests and take it from there. It's more than just TSH. Oh...and don't forget to get PTH checked. (Parathyroid.) If it's high, it can mean your body is breaking down bone. It's a common issue post-bariatric surgery, but not all docs check the levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 The links that I have seen seem to link ( or perhaps correlate would be a better term to use) NASH to hypothyroid are: .http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14506393 http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0004-28032011000300006&script=sci_arttext https://www.liverdoctor.com/thyroid-health-depends-on-your-liver/ ( lots of supplement..hawking, but good info) HTH! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Have you ever seen an endocrinologist? I would ask your PCP for a referral. Say because you're concerned it keeps increasing. S/he will likely run a bunch of tests and take it from there. It's more than just TSH. Oh...and don't forget to get PTH checked. (Parathyroid.) If it's high, it can mean your body is breaking down bone. It's a common issue post-bariatric surgery, but not all docs check the levels. I actually know a bit about parathyroid from having iguanas, lol. I think yes, if it is increasing I'll ask for a full panel, with t4/t3, free t4/t3 and antibody test. If that doesn't give a clear picture or I think they aren't taking it seriously I'll ask for a referral I guess? My primary hasn't seen the most recent numbers (3.75 TSH) because those were run by the bariatric surgeon's office. I THINK my last numbers before that were 3.4, and before that 3.1. So a definite trend. I'm now very curious to see what happens with this set of lab work, and if it is higher the same or lower. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest2 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) I've also done some of the hasimoto/autoimmune/antiinflamitory diet (well, cut out all sugar and breads, and upped protein), and felt better. May be why I felt so miserable after thanksgiving . . . an even bigger reason for me to switch is a homozygous mutation I have. my dr did test for it - but she *really* isn't experienced at treating it. (dudeling sees an ND who also works with this, so I know some.) I switched to a ND who is very focused on this particular mutation. I'm hoping she'll also be more helpful with the thyroid. my dd's provider also tested her - she's also homozygous - and was told it wasn't a big deal. I hit the roof when I found that out. she's also now going to a dr who is lisenced as a GP - but trained in her home country as a gyn with a phd in endocrinology. she's already looking at her in a completely new way from every dr she's seen here. I'm hopeful she'll get help. finally. Yes. I so get this. My doc is now an intergrated health doc because of her own auto immune issues. She does some of that testing on first visit. I think the mutations are super interesting and possibly will become a way to explain why people feel horrible but labs are ok, or the reverse. Maybe it will possibly explain slow weight losses/quick gains. I would be curious to know if there is a link between homozygous or heterozygous mutations and thyroid/ liver/ endocrine system functioning. Edited January 30, 2016 by Silver Brook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 All my lab numbers are "normal;" however, I have tested positive for the antibodies, so I have Hashimoto's. My sister's TSH was normal, too, and so her thyroid issues went undiagnosed until she was in a complete cognitive meltdown. So don't rely on TSH. You have symptoms. Make sure they at least test for antibodies, ,and free T3 and free T4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hmm, found a TSH from 2014 that was 2.75. So it's gone up quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Around here, lots of docs go by TSH only, and with the old range of <5. Many won't Rx even if you are symptomatic with a TSH of 4-5. I can't agree that TSH should be as close to zero as possible. When you get below 0.10, the chances of being *hyper* are very high. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hmm, found a TSH from 2014 that was 2.75. So it's gone up quite a bit. It can bounce up and down. Given that you have symptoms, I would just go for the more extensive testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Yes. I so get this. My doc is now an intergrated health doc because of her own auto immune issues. She does some of that testing on first visit. I think the mutations are super interesting and possibly will become a way to explain why people feel horrible but labs are ok, or the reverse. Maybe it will possibly explain slow weight losses/quick gains. I would be curious to know if there is a link between homozygous or heterozygous mutations and thyroid/ liver/ endocrine system functioning. mutations impact depends upon the gene. mine affects how I can use b-vitamins/mthf specifically - but that does affect other areas, like serotonin . . . . it seems to also affect ability to absorb d3, I've been taking abt 4,000- 5,000 IUs a day (my doc told me to only take 1,000ius) for several years, and I STILL haven't hit 50 . . . . I've changed brands. but there is a huge impact upon the methylation cycle - don't know how that plays into liver, but I think when I was taking more mthf than my body was read to handle, some of my liver numbers were problematic again. methylation does get rid of toxins in the body, so maybe it was over-dumping in my liver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I can't agree that TSH should be as close to zero as possible. When you get below 0.10, the chances of being *hyper* are very high. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hmm, found a TSH from 2014 that was 2.75. So it's gone up quite a bit. That means your thyroid function has gone down quite a bit. You need FT3 and FT4 tested. And you treat the FT3 and FT4, not the TSH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSmomof2 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 If your TSH is any higher, I would request a full thyroid panel, including antibodies. If there is resistance to that idea, I would consider seeking out a different doctor. With the results of a full panel, the picture will become clearer as to whether supplementation is indicated. ^^^ITA 3.75 TSH with symptoms should be looked at with a full panel. My endocrinologist adjusts my medications when my TSH gets above 2, and I feel best when it's closer to 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 ^^^ITA 3.75 TSH with symptoms should be looked at with a full panel. My endocrinologist adjusts my medications when my TSH gets above 2, and I feel best when it's closer to 1. yeah- my doc still didn't run a full panel. I've got an appointment with a new provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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