brasilmom Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Greetings, I see a lot of talking about Sarah Palin and got very interested when I heard of her time as a mayor. So, below is a conversation she had with the librarian on 3 occasions. Honestly, I would not ever vote for a person who uses power to establish religious views. This is what the Taliban does. Read on: Sarah Palin "Hypothetically" Wanted to Ban Books Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, said Thursday that Palin asked the head librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, on three occasions how she would react to attempts at banning books. He said the questions, in the fall of 1996, were hypothetical and entirely appropriate. He said a patron had asked the library to remove a title the year before and the mayor wanted to understand how such disputes were handled. (AP) Mayor Palin: So... Mary Ellen... what are the rules over there at the library about... banning books. Librarian: Um... what? Palin: Say I wanted to, as Mayor, ban a book- how does that work, exactly. Librarian: Well, typically in this country we don't "ban" books. Palin: That's not what they say at my Church! Librarian: Listen, I don't know how to tell you this but... what you're talking about is illegal. Palin: Okey dokey! Never mind! (one week later) Palin: Hey Mary- this is Mayor Palin again. What if I just passed a law making a certain book illegal? Would you just go ahead and take it off the shelve after that? Librarian: Are you threatening to try to throw me in jail? Palin: No, no- nothing like that. You just said banning books was illegal, and I kind of think I can make you take that book off the shelve. Librarian: Have you talked to the city attorney about these conversations? Palin: (Pause) Librarian: Because I really think you should run this by a lawyer before we get any further. Palin: Um... You know what- I'll call you back. (one week alter) Palin: Hey Mary- it's Palin. Say... what does "banning a book" really mean anyway? Whether it's by library policy or local ordinance- whatever- can't we just comply with community morals without being all "banny." Librarian: For the last time- I am not taking Tom Sawyer off the shelf! It gives me shivers just the thought of having such person as a potential vice president, never mind as president. As homeschoolers, don't we all want to have our rights preserved? Soon enough the government will tell what to eat... oh wait, they already do that... Oh well... Be well Miriam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I think the issue of whether or not Palin desired to ban books from the public library is worthy of discussion. However, I think looking at hard news sources is better than conversations called out of the imaginations of bloggers. http://news.yahoo.com/s//ap/20080912/ap_on_el_pr/palin_librarian Taylor Griffin, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, said Thursday that Palin asked the head librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, on three occasions how she would react to attempts at banning books. He said the questions, in the fall of 1996, were hypothetical and entirely appropriate. He said a patron had asked the library to remove a title the year before and the mayor wanted to understand how such disputes were handled. Records on the city's Web site, however, do not show any books were challenged in Wasilla in the 10 years before Palin took office. Palin notified Emmons she would be fired in January 1997 because the mayor didn't feel she had the librarian's "full support." Emmons was reinstated the next day after public outcry, according to newspaper reports at the time. Still, one longtime library staffer recalls that the run-in made everyone fear for their jobs. "Mayor Palin gave us some terrible moments and some rather gut-wrenching moments, particularly when Mary Ellen said she was going to have to leave," said Cathy Petrie, who managed the children's collection at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyboys Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I see a lot of talking about Sarah Palin and got very interested when I heard of her time as a mayor. So, below is a conversation she had with the librarian on 3 occasions. (snipped) Palin: Hey Mary- it's Palin. Say... what does "banning a book" really mean anyway? Whether it's by library policy or local ordinance- whatever- can't we just comply with community morals without being all "banny." Librarian: For the last time- I am not taking Tom Sawyer off the shelf! There was a long thread about this a couple of weeks ago when it came up in the press. Unfortunately, alot of what's been put out there on this has been ridiculous (like the supposed list of banned books, some of which were published after the conversation took place). I would wonder where this "transcript" originated due to some of the parts I highlighted. Just sounds a bit odd. Sorry, that's just my reaction here. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Mouse Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I followed the link to the blog and it looks like this is more of a "joke" than an account of actual conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyboys Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I followed the link to the blog and it looks like this is more of a "joke" than an account of actual conversations. Thanks. I didn't bother going there because it sounded pretty odd and there are only so many hours in the day! It didn't sound like Miriam was joking though. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I don't know you well enough to know where you're coming from, brasilmom, but comparing a fictional conversation involving Governor Palin to 'what the taliban does' seems quite a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelda Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Are you sure this isn't the text for a future Doonesbury strip? Sarah Palin could be represented by a disembodied set of bright red lips and a pair of glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in VA Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I don't know you well enough to know where you're coming from, brasilmom, but comparing a fictional conversation involving Governor Palin to 'what the taliban does' seems quite a stretch. :iagree:. The "conversation" is a post from someone's blog. It is completely fictional. It would be like someone posting a "hypothetical conversation" between Obama and Rev. Wright discussing race relations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I would suggest that the OP edits their post, as it is inaccurate and inflammatory. asta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brasilmom Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 The first time I heard about this all was on NPR, which I credit as a very straight forward source. If you click on the (AP) that is in the post, it will take you to the news that was posted by yahoo. This was an Associated Press news, not someone's imagination. Palin fired the librarian and then backed off under pressure. I do not care if she is Republican, Democratic, or whatever, all I know is that a person that tries to use power in such way is way too scary for me and would not get my vote. I come from a country that suffered for years uder the Military system and this is type of action is all too common in such systems. I respect her beliefs, and all I want is to have mine respected too. Crissy, with all due respect, but all the radical system, being religious, military, communist, started with just small gesture that seems reasonable and good at the time. Once some power is in place it can take very radical shapes such as the Taliban. I am not saying, by any stretch of imagination, tha she is like them, all I am trying to say here is that measurements as this in a country that prides itself from a democratic system, is certainly a step on the wrong direction. I am sure that as a homeschooler parent you have done a lot of reading in history, and you can probably find many democracies that has fallen due to a coupe. Just look how the person got in power and how it all come to a coupe. I do not mean to offend anyone. I just felt that this use of power by Palin has crossed a line that I am not comfortable with at all. Be well Miriam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 The first time I heard about this all was on NPR, which I credit as a very straight forward source. If you click on the (AP) that is in the post, it will take you to the news that was posted by yahoo. This was an Associated Press news, not someone's imagination. But the "conversation" you posted was someone's imagination, was absolutely faked, was a joke, and you put it forward as truth. That is what the responders to your post have a problem with. That is what I have a problem with. I welcome, we all welcome, a debate of the facts. But please, let's keep it to the facts. Snopes Palin fired the librarian and then backed off under pressure. This does seem to be true, though it does not seem to be a fact that we have hard evidence that Palin fired her *because* of her responses to the questions about banning books. I do not care if she is Republican, Democratic, or whatever, all I know is that a person that tries to use power in such way is way too scary for me and would not get my vote. I come from a country that suffered for years uder the Military system and this is type of action is all too common in such systems. I respect her beliefs, and all I want is to have mine respected too. I respect where you are coming from. All I can say is, you might not want to look too closely into the records of *any* of the candidates - you might not find anyone to vote for :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Country Mouse Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 But the "conversation" you posted was someone's imagination, was absolutely faked, was a joke, and you put it forward as truth. That is what the responders to your post have a problem with. :iagree: Yes, that's it. I am not a Palin fan and definitely not a book-banning fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I dare to say that even Benjamin Franklin would ban some of the books out there today...have you seen the extreme side of what people are calling 'art' these days? There are museums who HAVE banned exhibitions because they are just too horrific and vile and the value they bring to art is does not outweigh their filth. If she had ever banned a book, then I would take note..but, if I were in a mayor's position and I was getting calls from my citizens about a specific book being such an offense..I think it is her duty to call and find out the process and see if that has ever been done before...you're working FOR the people...so, I look at it as her doing her duty and not overstepping her bounds. I guarantee you that with the filth out there today in all forms of media that at some point our society has to stand up and protect our children...how in the world can they not allow pornography in the libraries? Isn't that book banning? But, they block it from the websites...so I have no issue with this whatsoever...I do take issue with the OP putting a statement out there that is so inflammatory and inferring that she wanted Tom Sawyer taken off...I have complete doubt that that portion was ever on NPR or any reputable journalistic program and if it was, then we have A WHOLE lot more to fear from them than from her. Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I have no objection to your AP link, but the nonsense story that follows is ridiculous. Shall we all write "hypothetical" (read: fictional) stories about the various candidates and post them? And then pretend that our fictionalized accounts should have some impact on votes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 So, below is a conversation she had with the librarian on 3 occasions. This is not true. The conversation is a satirical made-up mocking script. How shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 There was a whole discussion on the original book-banning thread about how, as horrified as we are by book-banning, librarians make decisions daily about what stays on the shelves. We don't call their decisions banning ... it's their job to manage the shelf space, and to decide what will circulate in their libraries. So on the one hand ... we see imposing a circulation decision on the library from outside the library as abuse of power ... but not when the librarian makes those same decisions. I once donated a box of books to our local library in TX. They were books about paganism, and Wicca. Did they get put on the shelves? Oh, no, they did not. Does that mean that the librarians banned the books? Is that different than a parent, or a teacher, or a mayor calling the library to request that those books not be on the shelves? If so, how is it different? We discussed how many libraries pull classics that are low-circulation off the shelves, to make way for the popular fluff. But we do not consider that banning. At any rate, I think the whole "book banning" issue with Sarah Palin is ridiculous. There are more pressing things to debate about her, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I have no objection to your AP link, but the nonsense story that follows is ridiculous. Shall we all write "hypothetical" (read: fictional) stories about the various candidates and post them? And then pretend that our fictionalized accounts should have some impact on votes? Can we? I think it sounds like fun :D (No, I'm not being serious. Well, I am ... but although I would absolutely do such a thing in fun, I would not post such conversations on a politically diverse forum, even as jokes.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Can we? I think it sounds like fun :D (No, I'm not being serious. Well, I am ... but although I would absolutely do such a thing in fun, I would not post such conversations on a politically diverse forum, even as jokes.) Actually, my concern would be that whatever I might post as a "joke" would then be circulated by some idiot as "fact". Even if it were an story about a politician I don't like or respect, I wouldn't want *fiction* to be used to influence people in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Actually, my concern would be that whatever I might post as a "joke" would then be circulated by some idiot as "fact". Even if it were an story about a politician I don't like or respect, I wouldn't want *fiction* to be used to influence people in that way. Like the way that Onion "interview with J.K. Rowling" was passed around as fact. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I have no objection to your AP link, but the nonsense story that follows is ridiculous. Shall we all write "hypothetical" (read: fictional) stories about the various candidates and post them? And then pretend that our fictionalized accounts should have some impact on votes? Isn't that what SNL does? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Isn't that what SNL does? :) But everyone knows SNL is a comedy show. They may be trying to influence votes, but they are not passing off their skits as fact. The OP seems to either think a fictional dialog actually happened, or is trying to pass it off as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brasilmom Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 But the "conversation" you posted was someone's imagination, was absolutely faked, was a joke, and you put it forward as truth. That is what the responders to your post have a problem with. That is what I have a problem with. I welcome, we all welcome, a debate of the facts. But please, let's keep it to the facts. I respect where you are coming from. All I can say is, you might not want to look too closely into the records of *any* of the candidates - you might not find anyone to vote for :) Pardon for the conversation itself. If that particular conversation too place or not, I do not know. Certainly a conversation of some sort took place. Nonetheless, I apologize for posting it. Indeed, as human beings we all have plus and minus. I do agree that I may not find a person to vote for. Let's hope that whomever gets elected can act for the greater good and not for his own personal interest and agenda. Be well Miriam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 You know with all the other stuff that has come to light about Ms. Palin (her management style, the back stabbing of past friends and political supporters, having government emails on Yahoo, etc; the bk banning bit seems small in comparison. It's just another piece of this badly chosen pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Pardon for the conversation itself. If that particular conversation too place or not, I do not know. Certainly a conversation of some sort took place. Nonetheless, I apologize for posting it. Your apology is weak. Deleting the original "conversation" (that was written as a *joke* commentary on a blog) would be far more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I agree... the original post should be edited by the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 But everyone knows SNL is a comedy show. They may be trying to influence votes, but they are not passing off their skits as fact. The OP seems to either think a fictional dialog actually happened, or is trying to pass it off as fact. It was a joke. It's like that line from "Liar Liar" - some people make a very good living doing that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peri Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I followed the link to the blog and it looks like this is more of a "joke" than an account of actual conversations. :iagree: It does sound more like a hoax than an actual conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 This is a lie. The conversation is a satirical made-up mocking script. How shameful. I think brasilmom made a mistake, I don't think she understood the context. I disagreed with her post but to call her a liar is over the top. I once donated a box of books to our local library in TX. They were books about paganism, and Wicca. Did they get put on the shelves? Oh, no, they did not. Libraries almost *never* put donated books on the shelves, it doesn't matter what the content is. I've offered to donate copies of The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding and such only to be told that they would put them in the library sale because they don't put donated books on the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I think brasilmom made a mistake, I don't think she understood the context. I disagreed with her post but to call her a liar is over the top. Look at what was quoted there. The poster you responded to quoted just the bit that said that the following was a conversation that happened. That *is* a lie. Flat-out. She did not actually call the OP a liar. She said that that quoted statement is a lie. And it is. Libraries almost *never* put donated books on the shelves, it doesn't matter what the content is. I've offered to donate copies of The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding and such only to be told that they would put them in the library sale because they don't put donated books on the shelf. I assume these policies differ from library to library, because the system I was at most certainly did put donated books on the shelf. They put some of the books I donated on the shelf. I was able to find them later. And in Michigan, homeschoolers would donate books such as LCC, or Phonics Pathways, when they could, so that they could be used by other homeschoolers in the area. I did not donate such books myself, but know others who did, and know that those books were put on the shelves. I am sure that each library system has its own methods and policies for addressing donated books. I did not realize, in fact, that there are some systems that do not accept any donations for circulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Look at what was quoted there. The poster you responded to quoted just the bit that said that the following was a conversation that happened. That *is* a lie. Flat-out. She did not actually call the OP a liar. She said that that quoted statement is a lie. And it is. I tell my kids all the time that not every wrong statement is a lie, sometimes people make mistakes. I think that's what it is in this case. I think there has to be *intent* behind a lie in order to call it a lie. I assume these policies differ from library to library, because the system I was at most certainly did put donated books on the shelf. They put some of the books I donated on the shelf. I was able to find them later. And in Michigan, homeschoolers would donate books such as LCC, or Phonics Pathways, when they could, so that they could be used by other homeschoolers in the area. I did not donate such books myself, but know others who did, and know that those books were put on the shelves. I am sure that each library system has its own methods and policies for addressing donated books. I did not realize, in fact, that there are some systems that do not accept any donations for circulation. I understand there are library systems that do put donated books into circulation. My point was that there could be a whole multitude of reasons why those books were not shelved, I don't think it's fair to presume you know the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 That conversation sounds like something SNL would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I tell my kids all the time that not every wrong statement is a lie, sometimes people make mistakes. I think that's what it is in this case. I think there has to be *intent* behind a lie in order to call it a lie. You are correct. Point taken. I will edit my original post to say, "This is not true," instead of "This is a lie." Thank you for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I tell my kids all the time that not every wrong statement is a lie, sometimes people make mistakes. I think that's what it is in this case. I think there has to be *intent* behind a lie in order to call it a lie. Okie-dokie. In that case, the statement is completely factually untrue, and the OP needed to be made aware of that, lest she accidentally persist in spreading untruth as if it were fact. I think all the ambiguities have been ironed out. Still, the poster was not calling the OP a liar, which was the implication I took from your post. That was my point. I apologize if I mistook you. I understand there are library systems that do put donated books into circulation. My point was that there could be a whole multitude of reasons why those books were not shelved, I don't think it's fair to presume you know the reason. Since you said that it almost never happens, no matter what the content, I thought perhaps you did not understand. Thanks for clearing that up. You are, of course, correct. Even though I saw with my own eyes which books on paganism they chose to circulate and which they did not, and even though it was small-town Texas with some very strong ideas on that sort of thing, it is strictly my own speculation as to why those particular books did not make it onto the shelves. I have no factual information, whatsoever. Not a bit. Zip. Having lived in the town for eight years I do believe my assessment is accurate, but it is strictly my opinion. I merely meant to illustrate that librarians make this kind of call all the time. It's their jobs. And we don't think of it as banning - well, not usually. My purpose was to illustrate that the idea of banning a book from the library is, perhaps, not so cut-and-dried an issue. And librarians, being human, and having diverse thoughts and opinions, probably occasionally let their own biases guide their judgments. :D It's just something to think about, on a tangent from the OP, with no real importance other than I thought I'd indulge myself with a bit of a rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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