Bluegoat Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 what To put it another way, if we are required to "use" our freedom, isn't that just another kind of bondage to social expectation or circumstance? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 To put it another way, if we are required to "use" our freedom, isn't that just another kind of bondage to social expectation or circumstance? I get what you're saying, Bluegoat. We are free to pursue a competitive career, which is great. However, if we are demeaned if we choose not to, it's a negative outcome of the fight for equality. If tampons come with the message that "now you can do whatever the boys do, whenever you want" AND YOU ARE DEMEANED if you choose not to, it's a negative outcome. Not everyone wants a competitive career and not everyone wants to play kickball when they are menstruating. :) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 To put it another way, if we are required to "use" our freedom, isn't that just another kind of bondage to social expectation or circumstance? I suppose, but there is no requirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I get what you're saying, Bluegoat. We are free to pursue a competitive career, which is great. However, if we are demeaned if we choose not to, it's a negative outcome of the fight for equality. If tampons come with the message that "now you can do whatever the boys do, whenever you want" AND YOU ARE DEMEANED if you choose not to, it's a negative outcome. Not everyone wants a competitive career and not everyone wants to play kickball when they are menstruating. :) The point of feminism is to give women the freedom to choose to do whatever they feel like. No one should demean you for the choices you make. FTR I've been a stay-at-home parent and a working parent and felt equally demeaned in both situations. Who is demeaning you for not going out and being all sporty when you have your period? I rather enjoy telling DH I need to take it easy when I have my period, and he's really the only one who knows. If I don't feel like doing something due to my period I just say I'm feeling under the weather. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Its not illegal to have negative opinions about other peoples choices. Its a jerk move, to be sure, but its not illegal. It is, now, however, illegal to discriminate against women in an official capacity. Like at work or in school. You can thank feminism for that or you can take histrionic pot shots at it. Your choice. Thanks to feminism. Its not illegal to be ungrateful, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I suppose, but there is no requirement? If there aren't really any graceful options for opting out, that isn't really a "requirement" but it doesn't really seem much like a freedom. There are all kinds of studies that show that girls patriciate in sports and physical activity at the same rate as boys until they reach puberty. There are all kinds of theories about his, but one that seldom seems talked about is how girls manage menstruation in their sport. For some it's never an issue, but there are a fair number of women who don't easily use internal protection, or get bad cramps, and that is even more true of young teens and pre-teens. And there is often a learning curve to dealing with these issues - it can take a few years to really get into the groove. I don't know if you've ever seen any of the threads on menstruation and ballet, but most girls are simply told there is no option - it's tampons or miss a class or even performance which isn't seen as a good thing. There is not consideration, for example, to allow the uniforms to reflect the physical needs of the girls on this. Now - an 18 year old looking to go into dance professionally might well find a problem like this to be a deal breaker. But I don't see how that makes sense for an 11 year old or a 13 year old who is looking for a physical activity for enjoyment and exercise, and who might have all kinds of further physical changes in the next few years that make it a non-issue by 18 anyway. From a child in that position, the expectation of not participating while menstruating would be more of a freedom than the expectation that she would. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If there aren't really any graceful options for opting out, that isn't really a "requirement" but it doesn't really seem much like a freedom. There are all kinds of studies that show that girls patriciate in sports and physical activity at the same rate as boys until they reach puberty. There are all kinds of theories about his, but one that seldom seems talked about is how girls manage menstruation in their sport. For some it's never an issue, but there are a fair number of women who don't easily use internal protection, or get bad cramps, and that is even more true of young teens and pre-teens. And there is often a learning curve to dealing with these issues - it can take a few years to really get into the groove. I don't know if you've ever seen any of the threads on menstruation and ballet, but most girls are simply told there is no option - it's tampons or miss a class or even performance which isn't seen as a good thing. There is not consideration, for example, to allow the uniforms to reflect the physical needs of the girls on this. Now - an 18 year old looking to go into dance professionally might well find a problem like this to be a deal breaker. But I don't see how that makes sense for an 11 year old or a 13 year old who is looking for a physical activity for enjoyment and exercise, and who might have all kinds of further physical changes in the next few years that make it a non-issue by 18 anyway. From a child in that position, the expectation of not participating while menstruating would be more of a freedom than the expectation that she would. This is all true. And unfortunately girls also tend to start disliking math at this point as well, which drops them out of a lot of pipelines they may later wish they had pursued. I think puberty could be the issue here, not feminism. Maybe we can all work toward de-stigmatizing puberty for girls to keep all options open. I don't visit the ballet threads, but that's unfortunate. They are devising more options these days that may help young girls, such as thinx underwear: http://www.shethinx.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I thought of another one. Scuba diving with sharks around. The bear one made me think of it. I never had to stop but I was told once I shouldn't go on a certain dive if I was, and I wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) Um, I played all kinds of sports and was a cheerleader without using tampons ( which I loathe). Other than swimming why do you HAVE to wear a tampon? Edited January 13, 2016 by joyofsix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Mine were so heavy I was very anemic. Finally, when a fibroid I didn't know I had blacked off a ureter so that my kidney couldn't drain properly, I had a CT scan. The biggest fibroid was over a pound. It had folded my bladder in half so that it never really drained properly and I had to use the bathroom frequently. The other 3 fibroids were smaller. No wonder I was so miserable during my periods. I opted for the hysterectomy even though taking out just the fibroids was an option. (I was 10 years past having kids and the youngest was adopted, so I was 15 years past gestating babies.) I feel so much better and don't have to worry about periods anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 The point of feminism is to give women the freedom to choose to do whatever they feel like. No one should demean you for the choices you make. FTR I've been a stay-at-home parent and a working parent and felt equally demeaned in both situations. Who is demeaning you for not going out and being all sporty when you have your period? I rather enjoy telling DH I need to take it easy when I have my period, and he's really the only one who knows. If I don't feel like doing something due to my period I just say I'm feeling under the weather. This could be anything from turning down invitations to a pool party to not showing up for your fitness class because you just don't know what to wear to yoga (or whatever) when you don't use tampons or you don't feel good. And let's say you are paying a lot of money for this class, you don't want to miss repeatedly or repeatedly tell people you are under the weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Um, I played all kinds of sports and was a cheerleader without using tampons ( which I loathe). Other than swimming why do you HAVE to wear a tampon? I cannot imagine I would be comfortable in a cheerleading uniform with a pad on. Even the "ultra thin" ones seem like they can bunch up or feel bulky. It would affect my confidence and I would worry about leaking. If I was constantly doing something like kicking my legs, I'd feel like I was drawing attention to an area of my body I very much didn't want to draw attention to! I played basketball and I hated wearing pads while I played! I brought this up in an old thread, but I always worried about uniform colors like white for karate (someone told me that not all are white). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 This could be anything from turning down invitations to a pool party to not showing up for your fitness class because you just don't know what to wear to yoga (or whatever) when you don't use tampons or you don't feel good. And let's say you are paying a lot of money for this class, you don't want to miss repeatedly or repeatedly tell people you are under the weather . None of these things are examples of others demeaning someone. And everyone knows about sweatpants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 None of these things are examples of others demeaning someone. And everyone knows about sweatpants. You're right, those cases the person may not be demeaned. Guess I was replying more to the comment that there aren't too many graceful ways to opt out (not if you're doing it over and over again). Sweatpants wouldn't make you stick out like a sore thumb in a yoga or spin class? Because I've never joined one, but I'm thinking that sweatpants might be crazy in hot climates or certain classes. And I'm not even certain that sweatpants mask the noise a pad makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Well I'm not the person to ask because I dgaf if the whole world knows my uterus is in working condition. So if I look like I'm on my period it wouldn't bother me a bit. Lololol at " the noise pads make" haha that's the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I get what you're saying, Bluegoat. We are free to pursue a competitive career, which is great. However, if we are demeaned if we choose not to, it's a negative outcome of the fight for equality. If tampons come with the message that "now you can do whatever the boys do, whenever you want" AND YOU ARE DEMEANED if you choose not to, it's a negative outcome. Not everyone wants a competitive career and not everyone wants to play kickball when they are menstruating. :) Yes. Or if you can't. Although when I was in school, it was good enough for one's mother/father to write a note of excuse for a swimming class. They never harped on that. I hate kickball. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Well I'm not the person to ask because I dgaf if the whole world knows my uterus is in working condition. So if I look like I'm on my period it wouldn't bother me a bit. Lololol at " the noise pads make" haha that's the worst. Ok never heard of pads making noise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Ok never heard of pads making noise. Lol yanno, whenyou walk and you hear them go swoosh swoosh swoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 You guys... :lol: I know, I started it. Not just that! But in the bathroom if you have to open a package... oh my gosh... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Oh! I legitimately will not go in the ocean. Sharks. I am :laugh: but I am also dead serious. I thought of another one. Scuba diving with sharks around. The bear one made me think of it. I never had to stop but I was told once I shouldn't go on a certain dive if I was, and I wasn't. I'm not allowed to go near the bulls on our farm when Aunt Flo is around, neither are my daughters. Animals can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 To put it another way, if we are required to "use" our freedom, isn't that just another kind of bondage to social expectation or circumstance? yes, I think so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Lol yanno, whenyou walk and you hear them go swoosh swoosh swoosh LMAO Maybe I should pursue hearing aids 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Well... last night it stopped me from getting decent sleep - something to the effect of getting up 4 times to take care of matters. :glare: And this means today I'm not even thinking about going to school. I'll take some time and head out with the ponies. They won't care and if they notice anything about leaks, sounds, or smells, they don't mention it. :coolgleamA: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) This is all true. And unfortunately girls also tend to start disliking math at this point as well, which drops them out of a lot of pipelines they may later wish they had pursued. I think puberty could be the issue here, not feminism. Maybe we can all work toward de-stigmatizing puberty for girls to keep all options open. I don't visit the ballet threads, but that's unfortunate. They are devising more options these days that may help young girls, such as thinx underwear: http://www.shethinx.com/ I think its a fact of puberty, for sure. The feminism angle from my perspective is that there seems to be a stream of feminism that seems to have a problem with acknowledging difference, as if it is a sign of weakness, or as if it will lead to further problems for women. Now, in this case I think that the original desire to avoid telling girls they had to be invalids every month was just probably a bit naïve, but it was for a while also something of a taboo to talk about the differences menstruation could make for female athletes, and I think there was something ideological in that - as if it means admitting that women are physically inferior. But I think the question about freedom is bigger than that example. I can think of some feminist commentators who consider that women shouldn't breastfeed because it ties them down and makes them vulnerable, or that it would be a good thing to somehow have machine pregnancies in order create equality for women. More realistically I think for example of the question of universal childcare which is talked about here in Canada. This, for people who are working moms and dads of moderate income, a serious issue, and universal childcare is often promoted as a feminist response. But there are a lot of assumptions there - the idea that women (and men, but that is taken for granted as the basic state of thing) should have their identity primarily as workers. But if universal childcare becomes part of the system, that does effect the realties for women who want to stay home with kids - it can make that a much more difficult choice financially and culturally. (And it also effects kids daily reality including what kind of out-of-home childcare they are in.) All of which is to say, in opening up freedoms, it can very easily, and maybe inevitably, be more about a change in what freedoms are available to women, and therefore necessarily involves judgement about what is important. While there are certainly feminists thinking other ways about this, in the culture I think often one way has become the dominant one, and (not surprisingly perhaps) its the one that wants to treat women as much as possible like men. (Men, of course, are treated as labour.) And disagreeing with it is characterized as anti-woman. Edited January 14, 2016 by Bluegoat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Um, I played all kinds of sports and was a cheerleader without using tampons ( which I loathe). Other than swimming why do you HAVE to wear a tampon? Girls in ballet are commonly told they can't use pads. But also some find they need to sit out on some days, because they are just too heavy, or they feel really ill. It's easy for adults in rec activities to do this. It's not so easy for teens who have to give an excuse to sit out of gym or a team sport, it isn't seen in many cases as a good excuse, and makes for an unreliable team-mate, and girls that are serious about things like a dance won't be given the same kind of consideration. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I'm not allowed to go near the bulls on our farm when Aunt Flo is around, neither are my daughters. Animals can tell. Yeah - our dog is obsessed with used sanitary products. She'll go to a lot of effort to find them and rip them into little tiny bits around the public areas of the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd293 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Nothing. Except sleeping. I've noticed that I have hormonal insomnia, although it's mostly premenstrual. If they invent a femine product that fixes that, I'm buying it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Ugh. Being in the middle of my gushiest days I have to say it is currently keeping me from good cheer. I just love running to the bathroom every quarter or half hour. Who doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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