Science seems to be the popular topic of the day

[OnMyOwn]

So I'll throw in my own science question. Does anyone know if psychology counts as a science or as an elective? And if it's a science, does it ever include labs? My dd really wants to take psych, but we don't have room for it and a lab science.

 

And what about computer science? Recently, I've seen an article proposing that it be treated as a math credit and another proposing it be treated as a language credit. What do most people usually classify it as? Science or elective?

 

TIA!

[Lori D.]

Psychology is a Social Science, along with History, Geography, Government, Economics Anthropology, Philosophy, Sociology, and Political Science. Sometimes Logic is also listed as a Social Science, as it is usually a sub-subject under Philosophy. Typically NO labs for Social Sciences, although some curricula might have special projects and assignments...

 

The Natural Sciences include things like: Biology, Anatomy, Anatomy & Physiology, Chemistry, Physics, Astronomy, Marine Biology, Ecology, Environmental Science, Geology, and Earth Science. These courses typically DO include labs.

 

On the high school transcript, any Social Science credits or Natural Science credits beyond the required amounts for those subject areas can either be grouped with the other Social or Natural Science credits, OR, can be counted as Academic Electives. Additional (beyond the required amounts) credits in English, Math or Foreign Language also can be counted as Academic Electives.

 

Then there are "regular" or "general" Electives, which include things like: PE, Health, Bible or Religious Studies, Home Ec, Personal Finance, Vocational-Technical courses, additional Fine Arts credits (beyond the required), and credits in coursework of personal interests or unique/specialized studies.

 

Computer Science credits can be counted as a special heading of Computer Science, or, under Electives, or, under Vocational-Technical.

 

Generally, for Foreign Languages, colleges are looking for "modern" or "current" World Languages to fulfill the Foreign Languages requirements. Most, but not all, will also accept Latin and American Sign Language. However, not accepted as a Foreign Language are Logic, or Computer Languages.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Lori D.

[OnMyOwn]

Thanks, Lori. The problem we seem to be running into is that my dd wants to earn the advanced studies diploma, which requires 4 lab sciences, 4 history, etc. Next year, she wants to take psych and CS, but she is already heavily into Spanish and Latin and there is very little room for electives with that diploma. So, what I think of as the typical social studies curriculum is World Geography, US History, World History and Government. I wonder if we can substitute psych for one of those? Or do you think that would be frowned upon?

[Tsuga]

So I'll throw in my own science question. Does anyone know if psychology counts as a science or as an elective? And if it's a science, does it ever include labs? My dd really wants to take psych, but we don't have room for it and a lab science.

 

And what about computer science? Recently, I've seen an article proposing that it be treated as a math credit and another proposing it be treated as a language credit. What do most people usually classify it as? Science or elective?

 

TIA!

 

My two cents:

 

Psychology is the study of individual human behavior, so it is a science. However, it is not a science I would recommend to a young person aiming to major in a STEM field. It is fairly narrow and unfortunately, because it's required for many non-STEM fields, you can find a lot of watered-down psychology out there. Kind of like social and political science. Done well, it is as rigorous as any life science. Done poorly and it is to life science what metaphysics is to physical science, which is to say, not really the thing it claims to be at all.

 

As for the labs, college-level psychology does include labs, but I'm not sure how you'd do it as a homeschooler. There are rigorous rules in most public institutions around psychological studies (and rightly so). If my child needed a lab science, I would have them take one that they can do labs in, i.e. something that can deal with smaller objects than people: biology, chemistry, physics. Psych could work in that case as an extra science OR elective. I can't imagine you have to have an elective.

 

Computer science really depends. I know two programming languages well, one I used to know, and one I am mildly familiar with. In my opinion, programming languages are to human languages as doing a backflip on a trampoline is to an Olympic level floor routine. That is not to say it's easy, but it's not what I'd give a language credit for. The vocabulary is so sparse, the grammar is so paltry, compared to language. On the other hand, if I had a child who wanted to go to community college, who due to dyslexia or another learning disability could not learn a language in normal time but was able to learn a programming language, I'd consider granting them a language credit for it. I personally find it fascinating that computer science majors have some of the lowest verbal GRE scores... way lower than you'd expect even if you said "boys aren't verbal". I often wonder what kind of selection process is going on there in terms of natural ability with language

 

So is it a science? Well, if you are truly doing computer science, yes, because that is the study of automation. That said, it's a pretty narrow as a science because it only studies processes of automation and artificial information transfer. On the other hand, it actually has a huge advantage in that with such a narrow scope, and such an artificial scope that is so easily available to many households, so you can really get far in high school, further than you could ever get in a "normal" household with chemistry or physics or psychology, lacking many of the lab conditions required for experimentation.

 

I would not give a math credit for computer science, but then I'm kind of a hard-a** and I wouldn't give a math credit for symbolic logic either--excepting, of course, the special needs situations I mentioned above. There are math prerequisites for computer science, such as linear algebra and applied linear algebra. I'd give math credit for that.

[Faithr]

In my county, Psychology is grouped under social studies, not science.  In order to earn a science credit for the state schools you have take biology, chemistry, physics and then you can take things like earth science or astronomy or anatomy, etc.  I know this because my dd was thinking of becoming a high school social studies teacher but decided not to because she didn't want to have to teach AP psychology.

[MerryAtHope]

Thanks, Lori. The problem we seem to be running into is that my dd wants to earn the advanced studies diploma, which requires 4 lab sciences, 4 history, etc. Next year, she wants to take psych and CS, but she is already heavily into Spanish and Latin and there is very little room for electives with that diploma. So, what I think of as the typical social studies curriculum is World Geography, US History, World History and Government. I wonder if we can substitute psych for one of those? Or do you think that would be frowned upon?

 

 

I've always seen it grouped under Social Studies, which is how I'm viewing my dd's Psychology class (half credit towards the required SS credits).

 

At my son's college, all of the Psychology, Sociology, Economics, Geography, History, Government, International Relations, and Political Science courses are listed under "Social Sciences."

[RootAnn]

Thanks, Lori. The problem we seem to be running into is that my dd wants to earn the advanced studies diploma, which requires 4 lab sciences, 4 history, etc. Next year, she wants to take psych and CS, but she is already heavily into Spanish and Latin and there is very little room for electives with that diploma. So, what I think of as the typical social studies curriculum is World Geography, US History, World History and Government. I wonder if we can substitute psych for one of those? Or do you think that would be frowned upon?

 

I saw Lee Binz in one of her coffee break books said Comp Sci could be a science credit as long as it included programming. I went a little  :blink: , but what do I know, right?

 

I feel you on the 'very little room for electives' thing. A second language on top of the usual course load doesn't make for lots of extra time. I think psychology is an acceptable social studies credit. Or, rather, my Google search seems to think so.

[Lori D.]

The problem we seem to be running into is that my dd wants to earn the advanced studies diploma, which requires 4 lab sciences, 4 history, etc. Next year, she wants to take psych and CS, but she is already heavily into Spanish and Latin and there is very little room for electives with that diploma. So, what I think of as the typical social studies curriculum is World Geography, US History, World History and Government. I wonder if we can substitute psych for one of those? Or do you think that would be frowned upon?

 

It will completely depend on how the Social Science requirement is written for your state's Advanced Studies Diploma.

 

For example, the VA requirement for the Advanced Studies Diploma is very specific about what courses they accept for Social Science and Laboratory Science, and you would NOT be able to use Psychology as anything except an Elective for the purposes of graduating high school with the VA Advanced Studies Diploma:

 

4 credits = English

4 credits = Mathematics ¹

4 credits = Laboratory Science ²

4 credits = History & Social Sciences ³

3 credits = Foreign Languages ⁴

2 credits = Health & PE

1 credit = Fine Arts or Career & Tech Ed * 

2-3 credits = Electives  (3 credits for 9th graders in 2011-12 and beyond)

1 credit = Student Selected Test

1 credit = Economics and Personal Finance (9th graders in 2011-12 and beyond)

24 credits total   (26 credits total for 9th graders in 2011-12 and beyond)

 

1 = at or above Algebra and include at least 3 from: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, or other course above Algebra II

2 = at least 3 different sciences from: earth sciences, biology, chemistry or physics or completion of science sequence required for the International Baccalaureate Diploma

3 = shall include U.S. and VA History, U.S. and VA Gov't, and 2 courses in either or both world history or geography

4 = 3 years of 2 language or 2 years of 2 languages

* = local school officials use their own judgment in determining which courses satisfy this requirement

 

 

So, if you are in VA, I see the following as your options:

 

option A = Earn the Advanced Studies Diploma by...

 

…dropping a Foreign Language

If  DD is finishing the 2nd year of both Spanish & Latin this year, OR, if DD is finishing a 3rd year of one of the languages, then for next year drop doing any more languages, freeing up room for Psych as an Elective.

 

… and taking Computer Science as the Fine Arts/Career & Tech Ed credit

If DD has not already taken a Fine Arts or Career & Tech Ed course, see if Computer Science can count as this credit.

 

… taking a heavy class load

If DD really wants to do it all (the Advanced Studies Diploma AND Psych AND Computer Sci), and there is no way to shift or drop any other required credits, then push hard for the next 2 years and pile on 1 extra class for next year and the following year. Or, if next year is her last year, take the Psych and Computer Science this summer as summer school classes. Or, make room in the schedule for Psych and Computer Sci next year by taking 2 other required credits (maybe Math, Social Sciences, or the Econ & Personal Finance, or the Health & PE) as summer school classes this summer.

 

option B. = Decide to NOT do the Advanced Studies Diploma

Which frees up DD to take what she pleases. However, to be competitive for college admissions and scholarships, I'd suggest taking an AP test or two, or possibly do some dual enrollment classes next year through the local community college or university. Or maybe do some CLEP tests to show higher level of working.

[Lori D.]

I feel you on the 'very little room for electives' thing. A second language on top of the usual course load doesn't make for lots of extra time.

 

So, what it means is that the second language IS the Elective -- it's just an Academic Elective, rather than a "general" or "regular" Elective. :) The student is "electing" (choosing) to spend their limited amount of credits on the personal interest of learning a second language, rather than spending those few Elective credits on developing some other personal interest. :)

 

 

I think psychology is an acceptable social studies credit. 

 

Totally agree with you, RootAnn! :)

 

The problem is, the Board that determines the specific set of required credits for earning the special diploma does NOT think so -- which means another choice: the student has to decide how important the Advanced Studies Diploma is vs. how important the classes of Psych and Computer Science are...

[AEC]

re: computer science....

 

if you were actually learning Computer Science then I'd argue yes, it's a science.  Yes, you can do labs (as in, demonstrate a repeatable experimental result predicted by a theory).  The problem is that what you're likely to be doing in HighSchool is not really computer science - its software engineering.  That's not to denigrate its usefulness - I'm a software engineer and believe it's an incredibly useful skill.  But it's not computer science.

 

Compute Science is a fundamental science.  Information theory is at least as fundamental as physics in describing the 'natural world' and possibly more so.  A course that included Shannon's information theory, computational complexity hierarchies, examined issues like entropy and enthalpy through spin-glass optimization strategies or something similar would totally count as a science, IMO.  It's probably beyond what most HS students have access to or are prepared for, though.  If you're interested I can recommend a text or two - it's spiffy stuff....but it's not light weight.

 

If you're not going to do that - you're going to learn to program in some language...call it 'software engineering' (or programming) and go for it.  But it's neither a science nor a foreign language.

 

 

IMO, of course.

Edited January 7, 2016 by AEC

[OnMyOwn]

re: computer science....

 

if you were actually learning Computer Science then I'd argue yes, it's a science. Yes, you can do labs (as in, demonstrate a repeatable experimental result predicted by a theory). The problem is that what you're likely to be doing in HighSchool is not really computer science - its software engineering. That's not to denigrate its usefulness - I'm a software engineer and believe it's an incredibly useful skill. But it's not computer science.

 

Compute Science is a fundamental science. Information theory is at least as fundamental as physics in describing the 'natural world' and possibly more so. A course that included Shannon's information theory, computational complexity hierarchies, examined issues like entropy and enthalpy through spin-glass optimization strategies or something similar would totally count as a science, IMO. It's probably beyond what most HS students have access to or are prepared for, though. If you're interested I can recommend a text or two - it's spiffy stuff....but it's not light weight.

 

If you're not going to do that - you're going to learn to program in some language...call it 'software engineering' (or programming) and go for it. But it's neither a science nor a foreign language.

 

 

IMO, of course.

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing that. Unfortunately, she is doing a python class this year and next year she will take AP CS, which I believe is basically a java course. So, I guess we will just classify it as another elective or career tech/fine arts as Lori suggested. Edited January 7, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[OnMyOwn]

It will completely depend on how the Social Science requirement is written for your state's Advanced Studies Diploma.

 

For example, the VA requirement for the Advanced Studies Diploma is very specific about what courses they accept for Social Science and Laboratory Science, and you would NOT be able to use Psychology as anything except an Elective for the purposes of graduating high school with the VA Advanced Studies Diploma:

 

4 credits = English

4 credits = Mathematics ¹

4 credits = Laboratory Science ²

4 credits = History & Social Sciences ³

3 credits = Foreign Languages ⁴

2 credits = Health & PE

1 credit = Fine Arts or Career & Tech Ed *

2-3 credits = Electives (3 credits for 9th graders in 2011-12 and beyond)

1 credit = Student Selected Test

1 credit = Economics and Personal Finance (9th graders in 2011-12 and beyond)

24 credits total (26 credits total for 9th graders in 2011-12 and beyond)

 

1 = at or above Algebra and include at least 3 from: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, or other course above Algebra II

2 = at least 3 different sciences from: earth sciences, biology, chemistry or physics or completion of science sequence required for the International Baccalaureate Diploma

3 = shall include U.S. and VA History, U.S. and VA Gov't, and 2 courses in either or both world history or geography

4 = 3 years of 2 language or 2 years of 2 languages

* = local school officials use their own judgment in determining which courses satisfy this requirement

 

 

So, if you are in VA, I see the following as your options:

 

option A = Earn the Advanced Studies Diploma by...

 

…dropping a Foreign Language

If DD is finishing the 2nd year of both Spanish & Latin this year, OR, if DD is finishing a 3rd year of one of the languages, then for next year drop doing any more languages, freeing up room for Psych as an Elective.

 

… and taking Computer Science as the Fine Arts/Career & Tech Ed credit

If DD has not already taken a Fine Arts or Career & Tech Ed course, see if Computer Science can count as this credit.

 

… taking a heavy class load

If DD really wants to do it all (the Advanced Studies Diploma AND Psych AND Computer Sci), and there is no way to shift or drop any other required credits, then push hard for the next 2 years and pile on 1 extra class for next year and the following year. Or, if next year is her last year, take the Psych and Computer Science this summer as summer school classes. Or, make room in the schedule for Psych and Computer Sci next year by taking 2 other required credits (maybe Math, Social Sciences, or the Econ & Personal Finance, or the Health & PE) as summer school classes this summer.

 

option B. = Decide to NOT do the Advanced Studies Diploma

Which frees up DD to take what she pleases. However, to be competitive for college admissions and scholarships, I'd suggest taking an AP test or two, or possibly do some dual enrollment classes next year through the local community college or university. Or maybe do some CLEP tests to show higher level of working.

Thanks again, Lori. That's helpful. I've started putting together a spreadsheet of the classes she is planning to take and getting frustrated because there didn't seem to be any room for some of the things she's interested in. We are in VA, so you've really spelled it out for me in black and white. I've looked at that before and am familiar with the requirements, but I guess I'm not being realistic about what we actually have time for. There basically is very little room for any electives with that diploma. Good idea about classifying the CS as Fine arts/Tech. I will check into that.

 

So, my dd has really met all of her language requirements already. She already has 5 years of language classes as she's in Spanish 3 and Latin 2 this year. But, she loves those classes and I can't see her stopping before she takes the AP in each. I wonder what would happen if we step away from the advanced studies diploma? I may start a separate thread on that. I'm thinking the problem with that is that colleges basically want to see what is on the advanced studies diploma.

[foxbridgeacademy]

In our local H.S. You are supposed to take US History for 2 semesters and Government for 1 semester everything else is up to the student, although they suggest 2 semesters of a World Culture type course. Psych would most definitely count as a Soc. Sci. credit here.

 

 

World Culture courses include: World History, Geography, Sociology, and World Religions to name a few.

[Lori D.]

Thanks again, Lori. That's helpful. I've started putting together a spreadsheet of the classes she is planning to take and getting frustrated because there didn't seem to be any room for some of the things she's interested in. We are in VA, so you've really spelled it out for me in black and white. I've looked at that before and am familiar with the requirements, but I guess I'm not being realistic about what we actually have time for. There basically is very little room for any electives with that diploma. Good idea about classifying the CS as Fine arts/Tech. I will check into that.

 

So, my dd has really met all of her language requirements already. She already has 5 years of language classes as she's in Spanish 3 and Latin 2 this year. But, she loves those classes and I can't see her stopping before she takes the AP in each. I wonder what would happen if we step away from the advanced studies diploma? I may start a separate thread on that. I'm thinking the problem with that is that colleges basically want to see what is on the advanced studies diploma.

 

Good idea! This is an excellent time for you to start researching the colleges DD will likely apply to.

 

Look at the minimum required credits to be considered for admission -- DD likely already has completed those. But also look at the number of credits the college recommend or prefer -- that gives you a much better idea of what credits DD realistically need to have to be *competitive* for admissions, if the college is somewhat (or very) selective, or is a top tier school.

 

Also look at all the statistics for incoming freshmen -- what is the average GPA and what is the average SAT/ACT score? -- those scores let you know what DD's "competition" is for admission. What are the test scores for the 75th percentile, or what scores will place her in the top 10% of incoming freshmen? -- students with those scores are the ones most likely not only to be admitted, but to be awarded the most amount of scholarships and merit aid.

 

Also look at what the colleges say they *value* most in incoming freshmen -- it may NOT just be credits and test scores, but it may be things like degree of interest, what extracurriculars / travel / personal interests the student has -- how has the student developed herself as a person, or what  does she have to contribute that will be special or unique to the college?

 

To find a lot of these statistics, check out College Board's Big Future college search function. Type in the name of the college of interest; that pulls up a page with a quick overview of the school. Then click on the option of "print complete college profile", which gives you a page of detailed info about the school. There's also an option to "compare colleges" so you can see the statistics of 2 schools of interest side by side.

 

So, for example, let's say you were interested in the University of Virginia (UV):

Here is the search result for UV, with the general overview of the school.

Here is the UV -- complete college profile, which gives you all the statistics to sort through to figure out whether or not the school is a good match for your student or not. For example:

 

Scroll down about 2/3 to the heading of "Applying"; under "general applying information" is the statistic of how selective the school is: 29% -- so less than 1/3 of those applying get in. Also under "Applying", is the sub-heading of "Very Important", in which the school lists the following, in this order, as important to them in their applicants:

- academic GPA

- alumni relation

- class rank

- first generation college student

- race/ethnic status

- recommendations

- rigor of secondary school record

- state residency

 

So what the school first considers is your student's GPA (a little further down in this section, you can see that 94% of incoming freshman had a 3.75 GPA or higher -- so DD needs a very high GPA), and then if someone related to the student is a UV alumni. Then they look for students who would be the first in their family to attend college, race/ethnicity, and then the student's letters of recommendation -- who supports the student going to their college. Then they look at how rigorous the high school course load was -- so UV wants things like AP or Honors courses or something like the Advanced Studies Diploma. In fact, because state residency is also important at UV (at about 1/3rd down the page under the heading of "Campus Life", is the statistic that 72% of the students are from in-state), that means your DD's major competition would be other VA students. And if most of that 72% of VA students have an Advanced Studies Diploma, then DD will stand out oddly without one… So that might help you decide about whether or not to do the Advanced Studies Diploma, if UV is DD's top school of choice or not...

 

Another sub-heading under "Applying" has the statistics for test scores. Looks 1/3rd of incoming freshman have SATs in each of Critical Reading and Math of 700 or more -- and almost 2/3 score in the 30-36 range of the combined Math & Reading ACT score. Yikes! So to be competitive just for admission, DD needs to score high on an SAT or ACT test. To be competitive for merit aid, she'll need to score very high to compete.

 

A little further down is the "High School Coursework" section, and there you can see what is required, and what is recommended, as far as credits for admission to UV:

course . . . . . . . . . . . . . . required . . recommended

English . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 4

Math . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 . . 5

Science . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . 4

Social Studies . . . . . 1 . . 4

Foreign Language . . 2 . . 5

Again, this might help you decide about whether or not to do the Advanced Studies Diploma, seeing what UV recommends -- those extra credits required by the Advanced Studies Diploma also fit with the recommended credits…

 

 

And, UV may NOT be of interest to DD at all, while the schools she IS interested in might not be as interested in that Advanced Studies Diploma. While I would NOT recommend making your decision about the Advanced Studies Diploma ONLY on possible college admissions statistics, by looking ahead to colleges, it can help you plan overall how to gear DD's high school studies so she can DO what is of interest to her and develop her passions and strengths, but also so that can be balanced with what she really needs to have to be able to apply to the colleges she is most interested in later on.

 

BEST of luck as you and DD discuss and decide! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Lori D.

[OnMyOwn]

Good idea! This is an excellent time for you to start researching the colleges DD will likely apply to.

 

Look at the minimum required credits to be considered for admission -- DD likely already has completed those. But also look at the number of credits the college recommend or prefer -- that gives you a much better idea of what credits DD realistically need to have to be *competitive* for admissions, if the college is somewhat (or very) selective, or is a top tier school.

 

Also look at all the statistics for incoming freshmen -- what is the average GPA and what is the average SAT/ACT score? -- those scores let you know what DD's "competition" is for admission. What are the test scores for the 75th percentile, or what scores will place her in the top 10% of incoming freshmen? -- students with those scores are the ones most likely not only to be admitted, but to be awarded the most amount of scholarships and merit aid.

 

Also look at what the colleges say they *value* most in incoming freshmen -- it may NOT just be credits and test scores, but it may be things like degree of interest, what extracurriculars / travel / personal interests the student has -- how has the student developed herself as a person, or what does she have to contribute that will be special or unique to the college?

 

To find a lot of these statistics, check out College Board's Big Future college search function. Type in the name of the college of interest; that pulls up a page with a quick overview of the school. Then click on the option of "print complete college profile", which gives you a page of detailed info about the school. There's also an option to "compare colleges" so you can see the statistics of 2 schools of interest side by side.

 

So, for example, let's say you were interested in the University of Virginia (UV):

Here is the search result for UV, with the general overview of the school.

Here is the UV -- complete college profile, which gives you all the statistics to sort through to figure out whether or not the school is a good match for your student or not. For example:

 

Scroll down about 2/3 to the heading of "Applying"; under "general applying information" is the statistic of how selective the school is: 29% -- so less than 1/3 of those applying get in. Also under "Applying", is the sub-heading of "Very Important", in which the school lists the following, in this order, as important to them in their applicants:

- academic GPA

- alumni relation

- class rank

- first generation college student

- race/ethnic status

- recommendations

- rigor of secondary school record

- state residency

 

So what the school first considers is your student's GPA (a little further down in this section, you can see that 94% of incoming freshman had a 3.75 GPA or higher -- so DD needs a very high GPA), and then if someone related to the student is a UV alumni. Then they look for students who would be the first in their family to attend college, race/ethnicity, and then the student's letters of recommendation -- who supports the student going to their college. Then they look at how rigorous the high school course load was -- so UV wants things like AP or Honors courses or something like the Advanced Studies Diploma. In fact, because state residency is also important at UV (at about 1/3rd down the page under the heading of "Campus Life", is the statistic that 72% of the students are from in-state), that means your DD's major competition would be other VA students. And if most of that 72% of VA students have an Advanced Studies Diploma, then DD will stand out oddly without one… So that might help you decide about whether or not to do the Advanced Studies Diploma, if UV is DD's top school of choice or not...

 

Another sub-heading under "Applying" has the statistics for test scores. Looks 1/3rd of incoming freshman have SATs in each of Critical Reading and Math of 700 or more -- and almost 2/3 score in the 30-36 range of the combined Math & Reading ACT score. Yikes! So to be competitive just for admission, DD needs to score high on an SAT or ACT test. To be competitive for merit aid, she'll need to score very high to compete.

 

A little further down is the "High School Coursework" section, and there you can see what is required, and what is recommended, as far as credits for admission to UV:

course . . . . . . . . . . . . . . required . . recommended

English . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 4

Math . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 . . 5

Science . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . 4

Social Studies . . . . . 1 . . 4

Foreign Language . . 2 . . 5

Again, this might help you decide about whether or not to do the Advanced Studies Diploma, seeing what UV recommends -- those extra credits required by the Advanced Studies Diploma also fit with the recommended credits…

 

 

And, UV may NOT be of interest to DD at all, while the schools she IS interested in might not be as interested in that Advanced Studies Diploma. While I would NOT recommend making your decision about the Advanced Studies Diploma ONLY on possible college admissions statistics, by looking ahead to colleges, it can help you plan overall how to gear DD's high school studies so she can DO what is of interest to her and develop her passions and strengths, but also so that can be balanced with what she really needs to have to be able to apply to the colleges she is most interested in later on.

 

BEST of luck as you and DD discuss and decide! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thanks for walking me through that. My dd would love to go to UVA. She's attended summer camp there the last couple of years. But, as you've pointed out, it is extremely competitive. I knew it was, but I hadn't looked up the specifics before. Seeing that gets my blood pressure up, lol. But, we know lots of homeschoolers who have gone there, so there is hope.

 

I need to start looking at colleges and trying to figure out which ones are a good fit, so thanks for the link. It's all so overwhelming.

[Reefgazer]

In my high school (long time ago), psychology was a social science elective.  I would call computer science a math elective, but don't really *know* anything about that.

[Tsuga]

I think that if you give credit for high school biology without repeated experiments you should be able to give credit for high school CS without repeated experiments. Dissection and programming are good enough. That's not to say I think that dissecting a cat is "biological science" but come on... it's high school.

 

So I disagree that it must include science proper. That would be ideal but that is not do-able except for a narrow range of experiments in biology, chemistry, geology and physics but there are other sciences, like astronomy, which should count. I would even give credit for social science IF the student used a large data set and analyzed it.

 

I discriminate based on method, not based on whether or not the science is being done on human beings. At some point people will accept that you actually can study human beings scientifically, though it is hard, and big data is a big help in that (because you can find more natural experiments and exploit statistical tools, and don't have to control so many conditions, which makes it difficult to do social and psychological science).

[Arcadia]

Unfortunately, she is doing a python class this year and next year she will take AP CS, which I believe is basically a java course..

Not sure how to interpret this from your state's DOE. Maybe call and ask.

 

"Pursuant to House Bill 1054 (2014), Advanced Placement (AP) Computer Science A may be considered a mathematics course, a laboratory science course, or career and technical education course under the conditions outlined below. A student may apply AP Computer Science A coursework to only one of the aforementioned areas. These guidelines are effective for the students entering ninth grade for the first time in 2015-2016 and beyond."

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/administrators/superintendents_memos/2015/022-15a.pdf

[OnMyOwn]

Not sure how to interpret this from your state's DOE. Maybe call and ask.

 

"Pursuant to House Bill 1054 (2014), Advanced Placement (AP) Computer Science A may be considered a mathematics course, a laboratory science course, or career and technical education course under the conditions outlined below. A student may apply AP Computer Science A coursework to only one of the aforementioned areas. These guidelines are effective for the students entering ninth grade for the first time in 2015-2016 and beyond."

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/administrators/superintendents_memos/2015/022-15a.pdf

That would be wonderful if we could count it as a lab science. Thanks for that info.

[Lori D.]

Thanks for walking me through that. My dd would love to go to UVA. She's attended summer camp there the last couple of years. But, as you've pointed out, it is extremely competitive. I knew it was, but I hadn't looked up the specifics before. Seeing that gets my blood pressure up, lol. But, we know lots of homeschoolers who have gone there, so there is hope.

 

I need to start looking at colleges and trying to figure out which ones are a good fit, so thanks for the link. It's all so overwhelming.

 

Just me, but in the end, I favor using homeschooling to help students student develop their interests and passions, and to become "interesting people" for life, over trying to make high school very limited and all about meeting college requirements. The "interesting student" idea also seems to be favorably looked at by many colleges, too, as I've read many times about students who took oodles of academics and AP tests and had high GPAs, but still failed to get into the competitive or top tier schools because they had nothing that caused them to "stand out". Just a thought!

 

Your DD sounds like she's doing terrific with her class choices and variety of interests. That will look super when applying to UV that DD has attended summer camps there -- maybe one of those teachers would be a good source for the letter of recommendation?!

 

Just take it one step at a time. You're right on schedule for researching colleges for then applying. You're doing a great job! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Lori D.

[Janeway]

Psychology is either a social science or a social studies. If the school differentiates between Humanities and Social Science, then it is a Social Science. If the school does social studies and science for categories, then it is social studies.