I hate math.

[tori729]

Ugg.... so ever since the end of last year, tackling math for our then first grader has went steadily downhill. Since he started second grade, it sometimes takes him all day to do his math. This really puts stress on me because I have to constantly redirect him.

Some info:

I switched from Horizons to Math Mammoth this year thinking maybe a change of pace would help.

He KNOWS the material but just doesn't want to do it.

I've tried starting early, which works better but still takes him until lunch to get it done. He always wants to get it done first, but I've taken to letting him work on it in between helping his sister and then working w/ him on spelling or language or something else that he needs my help with in between just to break it up and not waste my time. 

I try putting him at the table with his sister, at the couch in the adjoining room, or in the kitchen more away from people and nothing helps. He will just sit and daydream or read whatever is within reach or look out the window, etc.

I just don't know what else to do to get him to do it. It's only his math that he's like this with, nothing else. I think because it takes the longest. 

I'm actually wondering if he just needs less problems, but I guess I'm worried that if I give him less to do, he won't learn it thoroughly enough.

Also, I don't have time to just do fun mathy things with him. I think I would go more insane then I am now. I'm just not that kind of homeschool teacher. 

[EKS]

I would not expect a second grader to be able to do any math work independently (meaning, if they can, it should be considered a happy surprise). And that goes double if the kid doesn't like the subject.

 

So, the first thing I'd do is plan to sit with him. Make sure that the format of the resource you choose works for *both* of you. I know that just the sight of MM made my son have a meltdown (too crowded and too many problems on the page).

 

If you can't spend much time with him and he can't deal with a ton of problems, Singapore seems to be one of the more streamlined programs. I only broke out the hands on work when my son needed something more than the instruction in the textbook.

Edited January 7, 2016 by EKS

[Tiramisu]

I'd try to devote myself to doing math with him and I'd write for him. Or work out the problems on a white board. I think you need to stay right beside him the whole time he's doing math and interact with him, as in do it together. I'd make it a priority.

[PeterPan]

We did a lot of math together, me writing for her, whatever it took.  MM is way dry and to expect a 7 yo to do it by himself like some kind of studious accountant is really astonishing.  I *do* give my 7 yo ds (ADHD-combined, ASD, SLD math/reading/writing) independent work, but it's never at instructional level.

 

I think the real challenge is that you have 4 kids 7 and under, are probably nursing or post-partum (physically draining), and it's winter.  I haven't done the 4 kids that young thing, but I really think that's the issue here.  If you weren't of divided attention, you could probably find the energy to do the 25 minutes with him and do it with pizzazz or whatever it takes.  My dd, at age 7, could do say 15 minutes with me and the remaining 10 (the other side of the worksheet) with me observing while I put on lunch.  That worked for her at that age.    

 

You could hire someone to come in and do math.  You could do mandatory nap time and put everyone else in front of insipid videos if necessary.

 

What I would *not* do is let it drag out or leave him by himself.  Carve the time, do it together at a brisk pace, with you writing if necessary and feed him m&ms to keep him going.  (I know you're crunchy, just saying food motivates.)  

 

You're at a hard stage.  Give it a few years and this will all be just a memory.  

Edited January 6, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Heathermomster]

Just sit down with him and knock it out.  If a problem exists, you are not going to know unless you sit down with him and observe where any break downs are occurring. 

 

We love Singapore.  DD is a 2nd grader and takes maybe 15 minutes to do her work. In k and 1st grade, I scribed for her, she used a highlighter to mark problems, and some days she used a whiteboard.  Whenever she comes across pages that are too crowded, I rewrite the problems in a spiral bound notebook so that she can work them.  I sometimes allow her to use Splash Math on the Ipad when she needs to practice math facts.  

[Guest]

nm

Edited February 11, 2016 by Guest

[tori729]

Thanks guys! He didn't need me to sit w/ him last year so I guess I just assumed he should be able to do it on his own this time as well. I'm going to try and sit with him and really help him. I do sit with both him and his sister at the beginning but it takes him a lot longer than that to get it done if I'm not focusing on him. I just need to figure out the best use of time for this. Maybe I could have him work on things he can do himself first while I work w/ sister, who really doesn't take long to get her stuff done, then when she is done, work w/ him with Math and whatever else, then come back to history and/or science w/ both of them. 

I think figuring out the best schedule would help get through things quickly and smoothly. I feel like most days it just drags out so much.

[OneStepAtATime]

Since he seemed to work fairly independently last year (which is honestly rather unexpected considering his age) are you sure that switching math programs wasn't the issue this year?  Maybe MM is a bad fit.  (I like the program but it was a terrible fit for my kids).  Irregardless of whether the material itself seems like things he should be able to do, if the material is presented in a way that confuses or overwhelms or really, really bores him, he may not be able to work independently at it and it could cause serious math anxiety and math hate.  That can be really hard to undo.

 

You might consider a different math program, or actually cutting down the problems in your current one.   I remove a lot of the review problems from CLE because it just really depresses DD to have to do tons and tons of problems, especially with material she is grasping well.  Seeing me cross out some of the problems actually boosts her spirits.  She actually is more willing to do her math and moves at a much more efficient pace when she doesn't feel overwhelmed.   In fact, there are times she will do the new material from 2-3 lessons in one day if she doesn't have to do ALL the review problems.  We pick which ones she needs and which ones she really has down pretty well.  We cross out the latter.  She really feels good about doing that.  Enthusiasm is a huge help in learning.

 

If you aren't comfortable with that, you might consider having a set amount of time he works on math and when that time is done, he stops.  Set a timer so he KNOWS there is a set amount of time then he can stop.  It can get to be an overwhelming and depressing feeling if you are trying to get through something but you feel it will take forever and ever to get it done.  Frequently, even though it doesn't make logical sense, the child may move even more slowly through the material.  It can also cause LESS learning to happen.  They shut down.  They stop really paying attention to what they are doing and the lesson doesn't really stick.  What they remember instead is sitting for really long periods of time, utterly miserable, and will associate those feelings with doing math instead of feelings of success.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:   I hope you find a solution that works for your family.  I know this can be really frustrating.  Best wishes.

 

[KSinNS]

I certainly found the density of MM made it difficult for my kids to focus. Also, is it maybe too much, or does he not understand it? MM lessons can be quite long. My kids really couldn't do more than a page or two, especially once we got to the Grade 2 book. 

[Tiramisu]

Sometimes kids need your presence more when you go up a level because things can become more complex. 

 

Horizons is advanced but really straightforward. I'm not familiar with Math Mammoth but I suspect it's more conceptual and provides alternate ways of doing things. That might require more hand-holding, but it will be worth it. :)

[Pen]

We worked on math for a length of time, not a number of problems or pages.

 

Also MM is probably not a good fit for your child from what you describe.

[Tiramisu]

We worked on math for a length of time, not a number of problems or pages.

 

Also MM is probably not a good fit for your child from what you describe.

 

That's a good thought. 30 minutes max.

[tori729]

He started disliking Horizons towards the end of last year so I don't think it's a good fit. I think MM is WAY better with conceptual stuff and he is learning many more ways to do math and I really like that aspect of it.

He knows the material, just gets overwhelmed with the amount of work he has to do.

I do think crossing out problems would help. I like Math Mammoth and I don't think switching again would really help. BUT I do think that if this went on, he would really grow to hate math. He already says he does. So yes, it's time to intervene.

 

So this morning, I sat down with him and was attentive and went over problems with him and guided him and he got two pages done in probably 20 minutes. I still had to attend to the other kids briefly but overall it went *much* better. It was also a review section so that helped. We are heading into geometry and he's excited about that so I really really hope this helps bring back the things he likes about math.

[Tsuga]

Ugg.... so ever since the end of last year, tackling math for our then first grader has went steadily downhill. Since he started second grade, it sometimes takes him all day to do his math. This really puts stress on me because I have to constantly redirect him.

Some info:

I switched from Horizons to Math Mammoth this year thinking maybe a change of pace would help.

He KNOWS the material but just doesn't want to do it.

I've tried starting early, which works better but still takes him until lunch to get it done. He always wants to get it done first, but I've taken to letting him work on it in between helping his sister and then working w/ him on spelling or language or something else that he needs my help with in between just to break it up and not waste my time. 

I try putting him at the table with his sister, at the couch in the adjoining room, or in the kitchen more away from people and nothing helps. He will just sit and daydream or read whatever is within reach or look out the window, etc.

I just don't know what else to do to get him to do it. It's only his math that he's like this with, nothing else. I think because it takes the longest. 

I'm actually wondering if he just needs less problems, but I guess I'm worried that if I give him less to do, he won't learn it thoroughly enough.

Also, I don't have time to just do fun mathy things with him. I think I would go more insane then I am now. I'm just not that kind of homeschool teacher. 

 

My kids are ultra-distractible, ultra-active. Here is what I do to get math done:

 

With the 6 year old (1st grade math, does enrichment, bored to death with her public school homework):

 

1. Rewards for finishing the end of the line. "If you finish this word problem I will write the answer in the air with my butt." I swear to god my kids have done more math / language to watch me wiggle my booty than for anything other than ice cream.

 

2. Time trials to music. She particularly enjoys the 1812 overture finale and William Tell Overture Finale. They are like three minutes. There are two ways to do this: one is to turn off the music every time she looks away from the page. She hates that. Another is to say, finish this page by the time it is up and you can listen to a pop song in between.

 

3. Sing it all aloud. "Ten plus five is fifteen. Twenty four minus six is eighteen." Etc. 

 

With both of my kids, at some point I'm done. "Okay, you're not done. This is how many right for the day." You don't have to give grades to tell him that he finished 5/35 problems. Don't let him do any more. "I'm putting the math here. Maybe tomorrow you can get more done." Since you are at the 2nd grade level and he can do it, just having a limit to it and allowing him not to finish the practice could help. Maybe graph it for him in Excel using a stacked bar graph or something, or on paper, so he can see what percentage he finished. I am talking about showing him like this:

 

92858cf1e564d4326bf36da6ccc9c5f0.png

 

But just, right, wrong, completed. Three colors. Then he only does it for 30 minutes per day (I'd do an hour but broken into 30 minutes of lessons or activities).

 

When I took the kids' homework away unfinished, they actually were upset. The older one was happy and she said, "So I won't have to do it?" "Nope, you'll have different homework tomorrow--I hope you understand it since it kind of builds on today's. Oh, well." The next day she was sad. "I can do it!"

 

When I'm done with my children I should write a book on negotiating with terrorists.

[Heathermomster]

My kids are ultra-distractible, ultra-active. Here is what I do to get math done:

 

With the 6 year old (1st grade math, does enrichment, bored to death with her public school homework):

 

1. Rewards for finishing the end of the line. "If you finish this word problem I will write the answer in the air with my butt." I swear to god my kids have done more math / language to watch me wiggle my booty than for anything other than ice cream.

 

2. Time trials to music. She particularly enjoys the 1812 overture finale and William Tell Overture Finale. They are like three minutes. There are two ways to do this: one is to turn off the music every time she looks away from the page. She hates that. Another is to say, finish this page by the time it is up and you can listen to a pop song in between.

 

3. Sing it all aloud. "Ten plus five is fifteen. Twenty four minus six is eighteen." Etc. 

 

With both of my kids, at some point I'm done. "Okay, you're not done. This is how many right for the day." You don't have to give grades to tell him that he finished 5/35 problems. Don't let him do any more. "I'm putting the math here. Maybe tomorrow you can get more done." Since you are at the 2nd grade level and he can do it, just having a limit to it and allowing him not to finish the practice could help. Maybe graph it for him in Excel using a stacked bar graph or something, or on paper, so he can see what percentage he finished. I am talking about showing him like this:

 

92858cf1e564d4326bf36da6ccc9c5f0.png

 

But just, right, wrong, completed. Three colors. Then he only does it for 30 minutes per day (I'd do an hour but broken into 30 minutes of lessons or activities).

 

When I took the kids' homework away unfinished, they actually were upset. The older one was happy and she said, "So I won't have to do it?" "Nope, you'll have different homework tomorrow--I hope you understand it since it kind of builds on today's. Oh, well." The next day she was sad. "I can do it!"

 

When I'm done with my children I should write a book on negotiating with terrorists.

Heck, I'll do some math problems if you agree to post a video of your math dances.  That sounds hilarious.

[Guest]

nm

Edited February 11, 2016 by Guest

[Tsuga]

Heck, I'll do some math problems if you agree to post a video of your math dances.  That sounds hilarious.

 

I also write words in Chinese and German.

 

It is hilarious, but no, you can't see it. Trust me, it is equally hilarious no matter who does it. One time I told my kids I would do math for them if they did the same... so they tried but they laughed so hard I couldn't see it.

 

Also, I forgot a favorite standby: teach Spiderman math. "Okay, you don't have to do it. Just teach your American Girl Doll / Transformer / Bear / Spiderman / Pokemon etc. to do it. There will be an oral quiz at the end, so don't have them let me down!"

 

I swear to god, you'd think this wouldn't work, but it does for some kids.

 

Also, I have done push-ups for math problems, I have planked for violin music (you stop, I get to rest--nobody can say I don't love my kids, nobody, I planked for the pleasure of listening to Allegretto played by an ADD 6 year old), and I have done crunches for spelling words correct.

 

I wouldn't do this for a high schooler but I figure if I don't get them fluent in these basics, then none of the learning will be fun ever, because it always takes so long to do the basic reading and writing.

[tori729]

^^This is hilarious! You are so creative! 

 

I don't think my kid would like the music part - he would get too distracted listening to it! I do like a lot of your ideas - like teaching it to the toys and declaring you done after a certain amount of time and you can't finish later. My son HATES not to finish something. He will leave math unfinished, but only if he knows he can finish the rest of the lesson next time. So I wonder what he would do if I threatened him with not finishing it next time.

So far, sitting with him is very effective. Plus, we are doing geometry right now and he loves that because it's not really "math" haha. 

[FairProspects]

I also write words in Chinese and German.

 

It is hilarious, but no, you can't see it. Trust me, it is equally hilarious no matter who does it. One time I told my kids I would do math for them if they did the same... so they tried but they laughed so hard I couldn't see it.

 

Also, I forgot a favorite standby: teach Spiderman math. "Okay, you don't have to do it. Just teach your American Girl Doll / Transformer / Bear / Spiderman / Pokemon etc. to do it. There will be an oral quiz at the end, so don't have them let me down!"

 

I swear to god, you'd think this wouldn't work, but it does for some kids.

 

Also, I have done push-ups for math problems, I have planked for violin music (you stop, I get to rest--nobody can say I don't love my kids, nobody, I planked for the pleasure of listening to Allegretto played by an ADD 6 year old), and I have done crunches for spelling words correct.

 

I wouldn't do this for a high schooler but I figure if I don't get them fluent in these basics, then none of the learning will be fun ever, because it always takes so long to do the basic reading and writing.

 

Oh yes, all our clock problems would be done in Roman Numerals, finishing one math problem equals one crash jump from couch to beanbag, one math problem done by you equals one quiz question I have to answer about Pokemon/Minecraft/etc. We've gone through all this craziness too!!

 

 

[ikslo]

1. Rewards for finishing the end of the line. "If you finish this word problem I will write the answer in the air with my butt." I swear to god my kids have done more math / language to watch me wiggle my booty than for anything other than ice cream.

:lol: