How do you deal with back talk and bad attitudes?

[A home for their hearts]

My older two dc, especially dd8, has begun to really start back talking. When I tell them to do something, they always ask why, and moan and groan about it. I usually will have to tell the numerous times until they finally do what they are told, and usually it's after I've had to raise my voice. I hate doing this, but it's the only way they will listen. I need some advice on teaching them to be respectful to me. Help!

[Emmy]

I'm sure parents of older kids than mine will have better suggestions but I've been dealing with this a bit lately. Last week I sat mine down and gave them a pep talk basically reminding them that life is not all play and no work, God intends for us to be industrious and that does not mean laying around all day playing toys. Then I showed them a chart with their names on it and told them we were starting a new "no complaining" system - each time they complain and throw a fuss about doing something they get a tally mark. At the end of the school day I count up the tally marks and they lose 5 minutes of play time per mark - and that time can be spent either helping me clean or doing additional schoolwork at my discretion.

 

It really did help a lot - I didn't have zero whining but it was much better. The tally marks gave them a good reminder but I think the talk about how it was their job to learn helped quite a bit too. Mine have to be reminded of stuff like that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think it is a two part problem: 1. Respect (or the lack there of). I'm pretty strict about my kids respecting those in authority (including me). 2. Tone of voice (snarky, smart-alecky, impatient etc.). I will ask my kids to repeat what they said in a nicer way (whether it is to me or my dh or even their sibling). Many times in our house the words themselves are technically "correct" but that tone sure let's you know their heart attitude! (We talk about how certain attitudes can be sinful too).

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Money talks to my ds. I give him an allowance, but I tie it to attitude, not chores. He knows he has $5 a week coming, but I dock him 10c for every time he whines or complains. For major outbursts, I dock him a whole dollar. When he cops an attitude, I calmly inform him of how much money he lost and ask him if he wants to lose more. I keep track in a little notebook. It works like a charm.

[Scarlett]

I'm bumping this in hopes of even more replies. I'm about to go nuts over my ds (almost 8) attitude. Every Single Thing is an issue. Or he has somethiing else to do right now. Or he is suddenly hungry. Things do not improve until I have a melt down, but I don't want it to be that way! I hate it when I yell...it gives me a headache and I'm sure it is NOT good for my ds.

 

Maybe Joanne will stop by and advise us both.

[elegantlion]

I have one ds10. Earlier in the year I found that being an issue in school. I found myself getting frustrated with taking time out of school to discuss it. It seemed like we were just focusing on his bad behavior. Through some prayer and discussion with some other home school ladies I started to reward his good behavior in school.

 

I bought those date cards that you find in a teacher supply store. For each subject in which he behaves he gets a star, I am the sole determining factor in whether he behaved or not. When he gets 15 we take an extra 40 minute break during the day. When he gets all 31 he gets a bigger reward. I have him blindly pick one. For us it ranges from a happy meal, another 40 minute break or picking subjects to skip for the next day.

 

The first time we did it it took him forever to earn the 31 stars. We do approximately 8 subjects a day. We have now been through the stars several times. His attitude has improved 1000% and I don't feel like I'm making the bad behavior important, it the good behavior that gets rewarded. Not all of our days are rosy, but his attitude does a swift 180 if he realizes he's not getting a star for a certain subject.

 

Outside of school time we usually deal with B.A.T. (behavior, attitude, and tone). If he says something with attitude or tone we make him rephrase it in a correct manner. Behavior is dealt with in time outs and apologies if necessary.

[Free Indeed]

You can find articles on this at http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com :D

[Harriet Vane]

For whining "why"--I double the chore. The rule in our house is that they have to show me they are obeying FIRST and then I will gladly tell them why. Showing me they are obeying means getting up, moving actively towards what I have asked them to do, and asking respectfully, "Can I know why?"

 

Disrespect--Usually I ask them to re-do or rephrase. I might add something like, "When you speak in that tone it makes me feel like I am stupid" or "makes me feel you are disgusted by me." I may even imitate what they said. Then the follow-up is, "How would you feel towards the person who is disgusted by you? Does it make you like that person? Want to be with them?" or simply, "How would it make you feel if I spoke to YOU like that?" I often find that simply verbalizing in this matter makes them think through their words/tone. They always, always have to re-do/rephrase.

 

If it's a phrase or situation I have addressed in the above manner multiple times, I go to punishment, like doubling the request or adding chores or refusing an activity because he/she is not able to socialize appropriately/kindly.

 

For disrespect/disobedience, I absolutely NEVER coax or beg for better. A floppy kid who does not want to do their work gets double the work, period. The exception is when the kid is genuinely scared by or overwhelmed by a difficult learning concept. My math-phobe daughter, for example, really breaks down under doing homework for a concept she doesn't understand well. In that case she has to show she is obeying, has to sit down and do her assignment, but I sit *with* her to coach her along.

[Harriet Vane]

Your response should *always* come the very first time they disobey. Do not resort to yelling (though I do more than I'd like to admit!!! :-S). Your response of doubling a chore or removing privileges, etc. should happen the very. first. time. they disobey.

 

You might think this is hard or punitive, but I find it actually keeps the peace because I discipline calmly, BEFORE anger. If I give too many chances, or am begging/coaxing/cajoling for their obedience, I end up angry. Therefore their "punishment" ends up being a broken (for the moment) relationship with their mother, who is a screaming freak at that point. If I respond to disobedience BEFORE the anger, my discipline tends to be far more appropriate, and it does not then carry the emotional *weight* of my screaming anger.

 

A dear friend coached me through this when my dd was little--I have always been very grateful for her wisdom in this.

[PariSarah]

For whining "why"--I double the chore. The rule in our house is that they have to show me they are obeying FIRST and then I will gladly tell them why. Showing me they are obeying means getting up, moving actively towards what I have asked them to do, and asking respectfully, "Can I know why?"

 

Disrespect--Usually I ask them to re-do or rephrase. I might add something like, "When you speak in that tone it makes me feel like I am stupid" or "makes me feel you are disgusted by me." I may even imitate what they said. Then the follow-up is, "How would you feel towards the person who is disgusted by you? Does it make you like that person? Want to be with them?" or simply, "How would it make you feel if I spoke to YOU like that?" I often find that simply verbalizing in this matter makes them think through their words/tone. They always, always have to re-do/rephrase.

 

If it's a phrase or situation I have addressed in the above manner multiple times, I go to punishment, like doubling the request or adding chores or refusing an activity because he/she is not able to socialize appropriately/kindly.

 

For disrespect/disobedience, I absolutely NEVER coax or beg for better. A floppy kid who does not want to do their work gets double the work, period. The exception is when the kid is genuinely scared by or overwhelmed by a difficult learning concept. My math-phobe daughter, for example, really breaks down under doing homework for a concept she doesn't understand well. In that case she has to show she is obeying, has to sit down and do her assignment, but I sit *with* her to coach her along.

 

But Strider said it all.

[Scarlett]

If I give too many chances, or am begging/coaxing/cajoling for their obedience, I end up angry. Therefore their "punishment" ends up being a broken (for the moment) relationship with their mother, who is a screaming freak at that point. If I respond to disobedience BEFORE the anger, my discipline tends to be far more appropriate, and it does not then carry the emotional *weight* of my screaming anger.

 

A dear friend coached me through this when my dd was little--I have always been very grateful for her wisdom in this.

 

 

This really speaks to me....it is exactly what is happening. I let it slide, let it slide until suddenly I feel myself just really furious...yeah screaming freak sums it up. :o Thanks.

[LN in WI]

Honestly, I first needed to look to myself and my behavior. I have been very cranky as of late and yelling (which is not the norm for me -- yelling that is; I am frequently cranky:o) Changing my tone made an improvement in my kids. Also, I greatly increased the amount of individual attention I was giving her.

 

After that, we moved onto her behavior. I respond with, "I can see you are upset, but you may not speak to me that way." Then I model an appropriate way to respond.

 

If possible, when a child is disrespectful to me, I let my dh handle it. (If they are disrespectful to him, I handle it.) I would especially try to get my dh to handle it with the boys -- as in "No one may speak to my wife that way." I think this helps to lay the groundwork for how they treat women all their lives.

 

HTH

Ellen

[Lizzie in Ma]

I got nothing.

[Scarlett]

I talked to my mom this afternoon while ds was outside playing. She helped me think through some consequences for my ds and also gave me some specific advice---namely to stop discussing things with my son once I've told him no or asked him to do something.

 

So just now, I took him out for a good meal, (dh is out of town) and when we got home I layed the law down so to speak. I calmly told him that the backtalking is not acceptable, and he must obey immediately the FIRST time I speak it. If I get any back talking or non compliance, his name goes on the chalk board--as a Warning. After that a mark by his name indicates no morning outside time on his break. A second mark means no afternoon outside play. A third mark means no tv/computer time at all the rest of the day. So as I'm explaining this system to him, he thoughtfully says, 'hmmm....well, I've always got my cars and microscope set to play with.' I said, 'are you PLANNING on not obeying or backtalking me?' Oh no, he assures me...he is just thinking of what he can do if it comes to that. :eek:

 

Anyway, in addition to that, I told him that I also will not be tolerating the body slinging and the wailing and the whining that sometimes accompanies forced compliance. For those infractions he will be sent to a time out corner for at least 5 minutes...more if he can't get control himself.

 

So that is my plan...what my mom helped me come up with...we considered and threw out several things such as writing sentences and having to do extra chores or even scrubbing the floors. She was a 5th grade teacher and she says kids hated losing their recess time. I know it is important to fine the currency that is important to HIM. I also discussed with him how important it is for him to make himself in to the kind of person that peopel want to be around and that pleases God. He hugged me tight and said, 'I love you Mommy!' :)

[buddhabelly]

There is a book called "Back Talk: 4 Steps for Ending Rude Behavior" by Audrey Ricker that is just wonderful. I read it when my son was just a baby so that I would be prepared! I highly recommend it. Her basic premise is that back talk must be nipped in the bud: ZERO tolerance. No discussion about whether the talk was disrespectful or not, or whether "everyone talks that way." Again, this book is a lifesaver. It has step-by-step instructions about how to impose appropriate consequences and then (most important) how to disengage from the conversation/confrontation. Good luck! My son is about the same age.

[Scarlett]

Not quite 8:00 a.m and ds already has the Warning mark. Sigh. It might be a looooooong day. But I am determined to get this under control.

[Closeacademy]

The eight year old change--backtalking, crankiness, surliness, questioning, etc. We've talked about it on the old board a few times.

 

Basically, sometime between the age of 5 and 8 children realize that death can happen to them and they have to come to terms with that. There is often a lot of nightime and sometimes day time fears. Sometimes they will balk at schoolwork and even lose the ability to do basic math that they may have been able to do for years.

 

It can be a rough time for the whole family. Hang in there. Spend time comforting and talking to your child. Ask questions and listen to what she has to say.

 

When it is all over you will have a much more mature child who is now concerned about fairness, maybe wants to bathe more often, shows hers manners and is a joyful help most of the time.

 

Hope it goes well for you.:)

[A home for their hearts]

Your response should *always* come the very first time they disobey. Do not resort to yelling (though I do more than I'd like to admit!!! :-S). Your response of doubling a chore or removing privileges, etc. should happen the very. first. time. they disobey.

 

You might think this is hard or punitive, but I find it actually keeps the peace because I discipline calmly, BEFORE anger. If I give too many chances, or am begging/coaxing/cajoling for their obedience, I end up angry. Therefore their "punishment" ends up being a broken (for the moment) relationship with their mother, who is a screaming freak at that point. If I respond to disobedience BEFORE the anger, my discipline tends to be far more appropriate, and it does not then carry the emotional *weight* of my screaming anger.

 

A dear friend coached me through this when my dd was little--I have always been very grateful for her wisdom in this.

 

This is something that I totally agree with and I've come to realize it is put of my problem. I have always given them too many chances until I get completely frustrated with the situation and explode. My problem is I've never known what the right 'punishment' is for my dc, especially for the older two. I think they may be too old for time out, but I'm just not sure. I don't want to punish them with extra school work because that would just create another problem/fight. I already have to continualy nag them to do their work that they need to do to begin with so I don't think giving extra school work would be the answer. I need ideas for something that is age appropriate.