9 year old with ASD and anxiety…. long, sorry

[Angel in FL]

My daughter was home schooled until mid 2nd grade.  At that time we put her in school because she needed more interactions than I could give her because of taking care of my mom.  She wasn't able to get out and do things as much as our older sons had.  She did competitive cheer and had a circle of friends that way but she was always extremely shy, emotional, etc.  She did great in school, loved it and continued to do her cheer.  We got her dx as high functioning ASD in December but she still had no problems at school.  Educationally she was great, she didn't melt down at school and actually thrived in the routine and structure.  When we told the school, they said there was no need for a 504 because she had no issues.  If she ever did, they would work with us right away.

 

This past summer she changed cheer gyms and while she was on a team with her age peers, the gym is very much into "building champions" as they call it.  Meaning they work them hard, very hard, with physical conditioning. She would get upset during practice, but a lot of kids would too.  One day, in early August, after a two hour practice, as punishment for it not being a good practice, the coach made the girls do 50 burpee / backhandsprings.  My daughter made it through exactly 18 and then had a complete meltdown.  Other girls were almost throwing up, some were crying, but none like my daughter.

 

From that time on, she would say she had a stomach ace on the way to practice, she would tear up when it started and during conditioning she would cry.  She sat out a couple times.  For a few weeks, it progressively got worse.  She wanted to go, but she was so scared they'd have to condition hard again.  Then, they started conditioning at the beginning AND the end of practice.  My daughter lost it.  She would be fine, but as we were driving there, she'd get nauseous, start breathing funny, and it got the point of her almost hyperventilating.  She still wanted to do it, she just couldn't.

 

It all hit the fan the first week of school, along with transitioning to 4th grade, new teacher, new kids… all of which can throw kids with ASD off.  At cheer, that week, she couldn't go to practice.  I mean, she wanted to, even if she saw they weren't conditioning, she would cry if she started to walk to the floor.  She'd watch them, but couldn't bring herself to go.  If you tried to force the issue, breakdown.  That Saturday, the coach took her out to the floor, was going to let her calm down but she kept losing it, parents complained, she screamed, I sat and cried.  I couldn't take it and had to go get her and take her home.   She was so upset, she barely slept for days, I mean like 3 hours in 3 days.  

 

That Monday, we couldn't  get her to go to school, she lost it.  Again on Tuesday, she stayed home.  We were in contact with the school trying to get them to help us, because remember, they said IF there were any issues that arose at school they would help.  Right?  Wrong!  We tried for 1.5 weeks to get her to school, even to the point of forcing her out of the car and leaving her in a meltdown.  The day they said she was being manipulative and would get in trouble if she cried again, we withdrew her.  At that point, we needed to focus on getting our daughter back.

 

Meanwhile, cheer…. the owner called the Monday after her big breakdown (the same day she started avoiding school) and told us that our daughter was wanted on the team, they needed her because of her talent and wanted to make her comfortable (they know she has ASD).  They offered that she didn't have to condition anymore if that would make her comfortable and able to participate.  We talked with my daughter and she said yes, happily!  The first practice back the same thing started to happen but she was reminded she didn't have to condition.  She made it through 1 practice, barely.  After that, she just couldn't get over the fear, anxiety, trauma, I don't know what… but we tried for another week or so, she just can't get past it.

 

So now, our daughter, who had come a long way socially, thrived at school and at her sport, is now back at home… schooling, she withdrew from her activity, is losing touch with her friends and is having a hard time sleeping and just seems very down.  

 

We have been seeing a behavioral pediatrician and a psychologist for a while, the psychologist mainly just meets with my husband and me to work on strategies for her.  Honestly, I don't think it's been helping much.  The first week she avoided school, the behavioral ped put her on Trazodone to help with sleep.  It did help but she's still been down and withdrawing more because of (we think anyway) anxiety.  They took her off trazodone and she's been on zoloft since Wednesday.  

 

Tomorrow we're meeting with another psychologist who deals with anxiety and does CBT.  We are having a consultation with him and I'm really hoping this will help her.  It breaks my heart that in the last 6 weeks, she has hurt so much.

 

 

I'd love to hear any thoughts, suggestions, success stories of you or your kids, prayers, anything.  I'm truly hoping the zoloft is only temporary as that's kind of the thought process but I just don't know.

 

Thanks for listening!

[Aurelia]

Wow. I would have had a meltdown if I was forced to work like that. Is there any way you can move her back to her old gym? Or one that's not so focused on "building champions"? Or maybe put her in recreational gymnastics or dance so she has a physical outlet that's not so demanding? That's a lot of stress to put on a person, even without ASD. Some just can't handle it, and making her go back to a place with such extremely negative emotions attached is probably never going to be successful, no matter how good she is or how many of her friends are there.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm high-functioning ASD (Asperger's). I loved ballet as a child. Loved it. I wanted to do it all the time. But then I ended up with a teacher who (as I recall - I was in preschool, but the memories are still vivid) was always unkind to me. Every class. Nothing I did was right. I don't recall a single positive memory with her. I shut down and refused to dance. I couldn't even talk to my friends when they were dressed for dance class. A few years later, I decided I really wanted to try it again, and went to a different studio with a different teacher. Since it wasn't a place or a person who was familiar with the bad memories attached, I loved it. I danced until I went to college and couldn't afford it anymore. So, I can see how she really, really wants to do cheer and is depressed and anxious because something she loved/loves has been poisoned. Ask her what she wants to do. Does she want to go back to her old gym? Maybe take a break for awhile? Do something completely different, like swimming? Just don't offer the option to go back to the gym where she had the meltdowns. She may say she wants to go back, because it's familiar, but I can almost guarantee it's going to be too much, every time. 

 

[Angel in FL]

Wow. I would have had a meltdown if I was forced to work like that. Is there any way you can move her back to her old gym? Or one that's not so focused on "building champions"? Or maybe put her in recreational gymnastics or dance so she has a physical outlet that's not so demanding? That's a lot of stress to put on a person, even without ASD. Some just can't handle it, and making her go back to a place with such extremely negative emotions attached is probably never going to be successful, no matter how good she is or how many of her friends are there.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm high-functioning ASD (Asperger's). I loved ballet as a child. Loved it. I wanted to do it all the time. But then I ended up with a teacher who (as I recall - I was in preschool, but the memories are still vivid) was always unkind to me. Every class. Nothing I did was right. I don't recall a single positive memory with her. I shut down and refused to dance. I couldn't even talk to my friends when they were dressed for dance class. A few years later, I decided I really wanted to try it again, and went to a different studio with a different teacher. Since it wasn't a place or a person who was familiar with the bad memories attached, I loved it. I danced until I went to college and couldn't afford it anymore. So, I can see how she really, really wants to do cheer and is depressed and anxious because something she loved/loves has been poisoned. Ask her what she wants to do. Does she want to go back to her old gym? Maybe take a break for awhile? Do something completely different, like swimming? Just don't offer the option to go back to the gym where she had the meltdowns. She may say she wants to go back, because it's familiar, but I can almost guarantee it's going to be too much, every time. 

 

Oh, she is definitely not going back to that gym.  It's over there.  As of right now she's taking a break and not doing anything.  I hate that because she has enjoyed it so much but my big worry is that it carried over into school, and I'm concerned about what else she may withdraw from.  She's had anxiety, but this put it through the roof.  

[texasmama]

What a horrible experience for your daughter!  Focus on getting her stabilized with mental health and focus on the social outlets and outside activities once she is more stable and sleeping.  Cheer will likely be a traumatic trigger for her for a long time.  I would probably look for a new activity without competition.

 

I have an anxious 9 year old (no ASD), and a son with ASD.

[Guest]

This sounds like a traumatic experience for any child! I'm so sorry you and your girl had to experience that! :grouphug: Praying CBT works for her and that it gets sorted out soon. If this is something she loves doing, I agree with Aurelia, you could find a way for her to get back into it. Most certainly not at the same place that started all this! Would it be possible, after things calm down a bit, for her to do a few private classes with a coach without anyone else around just to get her more comfortable again? Then maybe a couple more claases with a couple of girls only, in order to help her transition back into it gradually? If the old place is not an option is there another place ahe could join?

 

Hugs and prayers to both of you :grouphug:

[Guest]

nm

[Lecka]

I think you need to think about rebuilding her trust with you as parents.

 

She will also need to rebuild trust with other adults.  

 

This takes time.  She will be fragile for a while.

 

I also put my older son in a situation he didn't need to be in, and he was very fragile for about a year.  It is 3 years in the past now, and he is doing really well.

 

But the effects took time to go away, and a lot of it was for him to rebuild his trust with me, his trust with other adults, and to rebuild his confidence.  

 

For my son I also needed to apologize to him and explain to him I didn't realize how bad it was.  I needed to explain to him that I am on his side.  

 

What is hard is that with kids being so young, this kind of thing makes up a large percentage of their life experience.  So -- it does take time.  Also they don't have the same long-term perspective as adults.  So that is why it takes time.

 

I would not rule out at all, asking to speak with the counselor at school.  They may have some things to help a child who has had a difficult but short-term situation, that is causing them to have some temporary trouble.  It is not IEP/504 type stuff, but they may have some things if you speak to the counselor.  

 

I think, and I say this gently as someone who has done the same thing, but I think you failed your child here, by not responding to her the first time she showed she was not okay, or the second time, or probably the third time either.  So even though we would like to get to return to "where we were before this thing happened," we don't get to return there.  That is not our starting place anymore.  We have to start at a lower and slower place, and be on a lower and slower trajectory than we were on for a while.  This is a consequence of our actions.  It is disappointing.  

 

Hopefully your daughter will move on quickly -- but that was not my experience.  

 

But my son was fragile for a year, but making progress (but not on his former trajectory).  Then the second year -- he was comfortable again.

 

Now this is about 3 years in the past ----- and I think we are stronger.  He is a kid who has met a challenge.  We have a great relationship.  He trusts me to stand up for him.  I will take his side when needed.  If I expect something from him, he trusts me that I am not going to make him fail or put him through something that is truly too difficult for him.  

 

It just did not happen on a timeline I would have liked, and it was very sad to feel like he was at a lower/slower place/trajectory b/c I messed up.  

 

But -- I think in the longer-term, we have come through some adversity, and I feel like we are heading towards the teen years and we have already gone through some things that have to do with our relationship, what he picks to do, how we listen to him, etc, that I think other people may go through during the teen years.  I wish we had not had to go through this younger, but I think we are in a great place now.  

 

Anything that she is comfortable doing, is great.  If she is not comfortable, for the short-term, I think it is "relationship first" unless it is getting to a basic level where she needs to be able to participate in basic things like school and home.  But if things are extras, your relationship is more important than wanting her to do something.  

 

I think encouraging her to find a peer group or activity is worthwhile, but imo, it is not worth harming a parent-child relationship, to try to build up child-peer relationships.  That was a tough pill for me to swallow, but that was how it worked out for us for a while.  

 

Edit:  I also think, what we have done are normal parent things!  We are not horrible people.  We would have not done things that, in retrospect, were a bad idea, if we had realized at the time!  So I think this can be a "lessons learned" thing and hopefully you guys move on stronger.  It is too bad life does not come with an instruction manual.  

 

There may be other things that are stressful, too, and maybe she would be more anxious anyway.  

 

It turns out -- my son would be more anxious, anyway, he is on the anxious side.  

 

So I think if she is very anxious or staying anxious, this is another reason to talk to the counselor (if they are any good -- ours actually are good).  You could consider looking into a professional who specializes in anxiety.  

 

For us I feel like our needs were met at the school counselor level.... but there was some discussion about whether my son was prone to situational anxiety, or if he might have general anxiety.  B/c he made the progress he did, it seems that he is prone to situational anxiety.  But when he is older he could have general anxiety, and if he does, then we would need to pursue that.

 

[kbutton]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I agree with Lecka. 

 

Her diagnosis is pretty new, and it takes some time to see what is really under the hood. My son was diagnosed at nine, and while we had some behaviors before that, we didn't have context for them, and it wasn't until he was 9 or so that they became really obvious as ASD (though it was always there in hindsight). It took some time to find the right lenses through which to view him, and during that time, we did a lot of things that were counterproductive. Finally we started to really understand how the ASD melded with his other qualities and capabilities to get more of a view of what he is like as a whole. We're still learning, but it's easier now to accept that when he's doing something "atypical," it's not so unexpected. It's really always there but not always what we see first.

 

Hang in there!

[PeterPan]

This is kind off the wall maybe, but have you thought about some OT to see if it can calm down some of the physical, brain reaction of the anxiety?  Our OT has us doing neurofeedback (Zengar) and Therapeutic Listening, both of which help.  I think you mentioned sleeping, and the TL puts him to sleep.  Might pair well with your CBT.

 

Also, VitalLinks/Therapeutic Listening has an app with QuickShifts that you can buy and just use, even without an OT.  Start with one of the tracks marked for beginners or calming.

 

Even more off the wall (but not so crazy to try) is oatmeal for breakfast or split pea soup for dinner.  Both are a nutritional way to work on the anxiety.  Not like it would be the whole thing, but load it up, doing it every day for a week or two, and see what happens.    

[texasmama]

OT is a solid suggestion, particularly given that the cheer was such an active activity.

 

I am sitting here appalled that a coach of 9 year olds would ever think this sort of approach appropriate or helpful.  My boys do less punitive conditioning on a competitive middle school basketball team.  There is the occasional kid who throws up, and the team consistently wins (in part because of the conditioning), but the cheer world sounds brutal.

[Minerva]

Just big big hugs. 

[Angel in FL]

Thank you all for your thoughts and input.  

[Guest]

Angel, you did what you felt was best for your child! When going through what you and your girl experienced, it's really hard to know what the best way to react is. I noticed you mentioned that some girls were almost throwing up and many were crying. Yet, I assume, all those girls are still going back there and the parents are accepting it. I have occasionally watched some of the Abby Lee Dance Company episodes. The way she treats some of the girls is mind boggling to me, yet the mothers put up with it. They have their own catfights comparing their kids while trying to look all nice and friendly towards each other. Yet they keep going back because they want to take advantage of the Abby Lee name and what that can do for their girls. You WITHDREW your child from that environment and from a school that was not supportive or considerate of her needs. In my books, you stood up for her and are still standing by her as best you can. Hang in there!

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Storygirl]

I hope your session with the new psychologist was promising. At the beginning of this school year, DD10 was having screaming and crying fits nightly. It was her first year in school with dyslexia, and she reacted in an extreme way when she got her first failing grades and saw her disability written in red all across her papers. She had always been a trooper through the difficult years of learning to read. While homeschooling, she had maintained an image of herself as "smart." And then it was shattered. It was horrible. Worse than I expected. We were able to help her manage her emotions and worked with the school, and she's doing better now, though we still have some struggles.

 

Anyway, DD's situation was minor compared to what you are going through with your daughter, but I wanted to tell you that I empathize with you. I know it's hard, but I also believe there is hope. 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Angel in FL]

Angel, you did what you felt was best for your child! When going through what you and your girl experienced, it's really hard to know what the best way to react is. I noticed you mentioned that some girls were almost throwing up and many were crying. Yet, I assume, all those girls are still going back there and the parents are accepting it. I have occasionally watched some of the Abby Lee Dance Company episodes. The way she treats some of the girls is mind boggling to me, yet the mothers put up with it. They have their own catfights comparing their kids while trying to look all nice and friendly towards each other. Yet they keep going back because they want to take advantage of the Abby Lee name and what that can do for their girls. You WITHDREW your child from that environment and from a school that was not supportive or considerate of her needs. In my books, you stood up for her and are still standing by her as best you can. Hang in there!

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Thank you for saying that.  I have been beating myself up quite a bit over the last 6 weeks or so. 

[Angel in FL]

I hope your session with the new psychologist was promising. At the beginning of this school year, DD10 was having screaming and crying fits nightly. It was her first year in school with dyslexia, and she reacted in an extreme way when she got her first failing grades and saw her disability written in red all across her papers. She had always been a trooper through the difficult years of learning to read. While homeschooling, she had maintained an image of herself as "smart." And then it was shattered. It was horrible. Worse than I expected. We were able to help her manage her emotions and worked with the school, and she's doing better now, though we still have some struggles.

 

Anyway, DD's situation was minor compared to what you are going through with your daughter, but I wanted to tell you that I empathize with you. I know it's hard, but I also believe there is hope. 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

It was definitely promising, thanks!  He was a great listener, sounded very promising and my daughter responded really well.  We start regular sessions next week, I am hopeful she will be over the bulk of her anxiety before too long.  Now, I am not expecting miracles immediately, but he did have good things to say and I'm hoping it won't be a long time.  As of now, she is feeling safe and calm without school and that gym in the picture.  Once she has learned some coping skills, we will begin to see what she can apply them to and move forward.

 

Thanks again, and I'm glad your daughter is doing better. :)

[PeterPan]

Thank you for saying that.  I have been beating myself up quite a bit over the last 6 weeks or so. 

I know, sometimes we just have to keep reminding ourselves IT'S NOT OUR FAULT.  Sure we can interact with our kids better, provide structure, etc., etc., but reality is this is genes, this is their body, this is how they were made, and it is not our FAULT.  We can't predict all the things that will happen, no matter how hard we try.  We can predict a lot (by noticing patterns, by gathering data), but STILL things will go wrong.  And I know this, because I read things online about workers in ASD charter schools saying they get bitten, hit, scratched, have to deal with melt downs, etc.  It's not like that's the goal, and they work stupid hard to prevent it.  But those things happen ANYWAY, because we aren't perfect, aren't omniscient, and just aren't going to get it all.

 

I know my food suggestions sounded crazy, but you still might try them.  I went with my dh and dd (before ds was born) out to Oregon for this amazing vacation where we drove the coast, hiking to waterfalls, etc.  We had a number of roads, but one or two in particular, where I spent the whole time FREAKED OUT about being so close to the edge.  Like the roads were 1 1/2 lanes wide, winding around the sides of mountains, had these sheer dropoffs with trees and things.  It was horrible!  I was just in the car gripping the door, freaking out the whole time.  And I came back so tight, so anxious, so nervous.  At the time I was using this really unusual nutritionist, and she put me on oatmeal every morning and split pea soup every evening (a generous bowl), and it chilled out.  So I know that's not her complete gig or solution, but it actually worked for me and has some kind of chemical basis (the stuff in the split peas, etc.) for why it works.  And it's not invasive or otherwise harmful, if she'll eat it.  :)

 

Hopefully this is soon just a memory!

[Guest]

Thank you for saying that. I have been beating myself up quite a bit over the last 6 weeks or so.

One of my many talents includes blaming myself if things go wrong, especially when it concerns my boys ;) I hear you :grouphug:

[Lecka]

I think those feelings are important to a lot of people to keep them from continuing to put their kids in bad situations because "everyone else is doing it" or "other kids have done it and they seem fine."  

 

I talk to people sometimes who have a list of things they have done, list their child's reactions, and then it is like "but now I want them to do this thing, why won't they?"  

 

It drives me crazy.

 

If you already feel bad and like you don't want your daughter to do that again ----- hey, you are her parent, you cannot control everything, but in the future you will watch out for things like this.  

 

I don't think we have a way to know, sometimes, that some things that may be fine for many other kids (though I wonder) are things that we do not need to expect our kids to do.  

 

Once find that out from a bad situation -- then we can do better from then on.

 

I think you are doing good.  It is just a hard time.  But I really do think you can come out of this with a better relationship in the long run.

[kbutton]

I think those feelings are important to a lot of people to keep them from continuing to put their kids in bad situations because "everyone else is doing it" or "other kids have done it and they seem fine."  

 

I think this happens to most of us when we're still trying to figure out what the diagnosis means (it means we will have different needs as a family), and what areas of our child's life it influences (all of them, but not evenly across all of them). 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

You will be able to figure out what you need to know. It takes time. Just keep loving her and helping her feel safe.

 

I agree with OhElizabeth that diet can help a lot. I think good quality probiotics, multi-vitamins, and fish oil help everyone, and some people need extra of certain nutrients at times. I react strongly to gluten with anxiety, but that is not the case with everyone. It never hurts to clean up diet. Oh, Brazil nuts can sometimes help anxiety--you don't need to eat many. Some people eat one every day.

[texasmama]

Well, the only way to find out when the personal "line that has been crossed" for your child (or yourself) is to cross it.  I wish it were possible to inch right up to the line, never crossing it and pushing the child into a meltdown.

 

This was a particularly traumatic experience, but there are many activities a young girl can do and not be pushed over the line.  In time, when she is stabilized, you will find one that is a better fit.  She is so young that many activities will appeal to her.

 

I left my ASD kid in first grade at a private school to finish out the year, even though I knew it was not working for him and that I was going to homeschool second grade.  I didn't have this board for help.  It didn't occur to me that I could just pull him out.  He had terrible separation anxiety and cried every day.  Looking back, I should have made a different decision.  I did the best I could with the knowledge I had at the time.  It caused no long-term damage.

[PeterPan]

One of my many talents includes blaming myself if things go wrong, especially when it concerns my boys ;) I hear you :grouphug:

It's even better if we can make sure we surround ourselves with people who blame US when things happen.  That makes sure we can stay in blame and guilt land instead of seeing the patterns and problem solving.

 

Moms with kids with severe challenges with have PTSD symptoms, just like soldiers in war.  The most important thing we can do is take care of ourselves and stay calm and healthy for our kids.  If something goes wrong and we had a part, we can still let it go, learn from it, and go on to problem solve and move on.  It's going to happen.  It happens to professionals and it's going to happen to us.

[PeterPan]

I think this happens to most of us when we're still trying to figure out what the diagnosis means (it means we will have different needs as a family), and what areas of our child's life it influences (all of them, but not evenly across all of them). 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

You will be able to figure out what you need to know. It takes time. Just keep loving her and helping her feel safe.

 

I agree with OhElizabeth that diet can help a lot. I think good quality probiotics, multi-vitamins, and fish oil help everyone, and some people need extra of certain nutrients at times. I react strongly to gluten with anxiety, but that is not the case with everyone. It never hurts to clean up diet. Oh, Brazil nuts can sometimes help anxiety--you don't need to eat many. Some people eat one every day.

Technically fish oil isn't good for *everyone*.  When my ds was little and had fish, he got HORRIBLE and smelled like fish.  There's actually a name for this, and it's something they're not processing right.  It's a known medical thing, just don't remember the name.  We avoided fish with him and have used flax oil for his omega 3 instead.  It makes a HUGE difference for him to have omega 3, so I agree it's important.  It's just one of those weird things you don't anticipate, but it was very definite that he was reacting to fish and fish oil.  Now we feed him fish sometimes and he likes it.  I would have to track more carefully to see, but it seems to have improved a bit.

 

I hadn't heard about brazil nuts of anxiety, interesting.  They're high in protein (like high as an egg!) and rich in selenium.  I think with the split peas, it's something else in the peas, because you can also eat frozen peas, etc. etc.  It's just nobody eats a whole bag of frozen peas, lol.  Pea soup is a kind of normal way to get a LOT of peas into you.  So you'd have them eat a bowl of it every day for a couple weeks and you'd see the cumulative effect.

[PeterPan]

Well, the only way to find out when the personal "line that has been crossed" for your child (or yourself) is to cross it.  I wish it were possible to inch right up to the line, never crossing it and pushing the child into a meltdown.

 

This was a particularly traumatic experience, but there are many activities a young girl can do and not be pushed over the line.  In time, when she is stabilized, you will find one that is a better fit.  She is so young that many activities will appeal to her.

 

The other problem for our kids is self-advocating.  So we have to get *language* for these things and give them practice *self-advocating* so they can actually speak up (or use an ASL sign or a laminated sign or something) and communicate their problem.  My ds had this issue, where he'd be somewhere and not know he could ask to go to the bathroom.  So he'd wet his pants, and you're like WHY did you do this???  And it turns out he didn't KNOW he could ask.  So now we work on that, practicing ahead what his options are, how he can communicate them, etc.  

 

So we can lay lots of blame on ourselves for not seeing everything and protecting our kids, blah blah, but part of it is we HAVE to give them tools for self-advocating.  And it's a process, not like we just say that and bam.  Social stories, even audiobooks can help.  My ds figures out some social things like that using audiobooks.  But these are the disabilities inherent in ASD, that they can't self-advocate, can't figure out the steps to solve their problems.  And that's not our fault.  We can be part of that solution, yes.  But if we only protect, that's temporary.  Working on the communication and self-advocating and problem solving, that's the long-term solution.  What are our options if we're tired or have a problem during gymnastics?  What are our options if the coach is to busy to talk to us about it?  What if we don't like what they're telling us to do?  What if we need x?  

[Lecka]

I am sorry for being cranky on this thread earlier.  

[Guest]

It's even better if we can make sure we surround ourselves with people who blame US when things happen. That makes sure we can stay in blame and guilt land instead of seeing the patterns and problem solving.

 

Moms with kids with severe challenges with have PTSD symptoms, just like soldiers in war. The most important thing we can do is take care of ourselves and stay calm and healthy for our kids. If something goes wrong and we had a part, we can still let it go, learn from it, and go on to problem solve and move on. It's going to happen. It happens to professionals and it's going to happen to us.

There's no one in my life blaming me for anything, personally. It's a childhood thing for me and I function and problem solve in spite of it. It's kind of like my anxiety. I have learned to channel it to empower me to take action, rather than paralyze me. I also take negative people out of my life. To survive in a family of extroverts, growing up. I learned to take care of myself, Same for my husband. I self identify with the personality of a loner ;) I choose when to be social and include others in my life, and I choose when I want to be on my own.

[Guest]

I think those feelings are important to a lot of people to keep them from continuing to put their kids in bad situations because "everyone else is doing it" or "other kids have done it and they seem fine."

Lecka, my parents cared enough about what the world thought of us to last me a lifetime, and then some. We, as a family (hubby and I) make our own rules and values for our own family and don't measure ourselves based on what other people do or think. We also couldn't care less about what they think of us ;) Our relationship with our kids, THAT'S all that matters to us :)

[Lecka]

Oh, band and orchestra are starting up right now, and my 5th grader isn't doing it. He doesn't want to, and on top of that with some of his OT it is not something I think would be positive for him.

 

I am still sad about it. I would like for him to do it. That is the kind of thing where it is hard for me, more than appearances.

 

It is turning out to be nice for him to have that classroom time for other uses, and he still has music class three times a week.

 

But if it was up to me, he would be starting an instrument in school right now.

 

I know some other people who are kind-of making their kids, and I am sure many of them will end up liking it. But this is the kind of thing where I am not going to make him do it. It is just sad to me.

[Guest]

Lecka, I just got this thought in my head that you may have taken my comments, meant to empower the OP, as criticism for your choices. Rest assured, and I think you know me by now, that if I had to say something to you I would say it directly. I don't hide behind innuendo. It's a gift and a fault ;)

[Guest]

To clarify, I didn't agree with what you said in two of your posts here. It was your choice to express yourself the way you did. My comments were pure, from the heart thoughts, directed at the OP. They were not meant to criticize you.

[kbutton]

I know some other people who are kind-of making their kids, and I am sure many of them will end up liking it. But this is the kind of thing where I am not going to make him do it. It is just sad to me.

 

:grouphug: I totally get this--there are a lot of things we just don't do. (And I get tired of getting heat from it, though that happens a lot less now than it used to.)

 

I didn't think you were being cranky earlier. I thought you broached a sensitive subject carefully and thoughtfully, but I'm also not at the same place as others are. We all hear these things differently.

 

I would not have known all of my son's limitations if I had not pushed too hard at some points. It sill happens from time to time. But, I do think that sometimes we tell ourselves to not be mama bear we should be if we think our kids "should" be able to do something. Sometimes, they do need us to step in and advocate for them. It's a very difficult line to walk, and none of us does it perfectly all the time. 

[texasmama]

Re: pushing...if I did not push gently but consistently for my ASD kid to do things or try things or continue to try things, he would try very few things.  There is a sweet spot between putting/leaving a kid in a traumatic environment and asking the kid to stretch himself a bit.  He has been like this since birth, pretty much, so I have almost 15 years into the gentle pushing gig.  It does get better, IME.

 

 

[Guest]

Re: pushing...if I did not push gently but consistently for my ASD kid to do things or try things or continue to try things, he would try very few things. There is a sweet spot between putting/leaving a kid in a traumatic environment and asking the kid to stretch himself a bit. He has been like this since birth, pretty much, so I have almost 15 years into the gentle pushing gig. It does get better, IME.

Same here, especially with my oldest. If we don't teach them gently now that the world is not always an easy place to be, it will smack them in the face one day. For those more sensitive, it can smack them really hard. Learning to cope with challenges teaches them the real world, and if they fall, we are there to catch them until they build the confidence to stand up for themselves.

[PeterPan]

Oh, band and orchestra are starting up right now, and my 5th grader isn't doing it. He doesn't want to, and on top of that with some of his OT it is not something I think would be positive for him.

 

I am still sad about it. I would like for him to do it. That is the kind of thing where it is hard for me, more than appearances.

 

It is turning out to be nice for him to have that classroom time for other uses, and he still has music class three times a week.

 

But if it was up to me, he would be starting an instrument in school right now.

 

I know some other people who are kind-of making their kids, and I am sure many of them will end up liking it. But this is the kind of thing where I am not going to make him do it. It is just sad to me.

Wow, he's lucky that he even has a mom who wants this for him!  I remember being in 6th grade and *wanting* to join the band and my mom saying I couldn't because there was no money.  :(   But you know, I think some people are very self-determinate and know what they like and know what they don't.  Maybe this just isn't important for him? 

[texasmama]

Same here, especially with my oldest. If we don't teach them gently now that the world is not always an easy place to be, it will smack them in the face one day. For those more sensitive, it can smack them really hard. Learning to cope with challenges teaches them the real world, and if they fall, we are there to catch them until they build the confidence to stand up for themselves.

You know, for my kid, the lesson is more that if he tries something, he might actually be able to enjoy it and to do it.  We put him in Upward basketball in kindy and every year after that until he aged out after 6th grade.  He was terrible the first several years.  By the last couple of years, he was respectable. Now, in 9th, he is a key part of the team.  He lacks self-confidence and needs a push from dh and I to put himself out there.

 

Maybe we're saying the same thing.  I can't tell because I am tired.

[Guest]

I believe we are! How good they are is not the issue. If they actually enjoy it, are trying to do their best, and others are accepting them for who they are? That's an ideal situation, for me. If something in that breaks down and there's no resolution? Then it's time for some hard choices. That's what the OP did.

[Guest]

I remember being in 6th grade and *wanting* to join the band and my mom saying I couldn't because there was no money. :( But you know, I think some people are very self-determinate and know what they like and know what they don't.

I was like that and so was my husband. We watched other siblings get signed up for what we wanted. It wasn't a financial decision. If that waa the reason we would both have accepted it. Unfortunately my oldest is not like that. I/we have to encourage him in certain directions, always based on his passions and what we feel he would like. Signing him up for things outside the home is not possible right now for a couple of reasons. If those two issues did not exist, we would have signed him up for an instrument and martial arts.

[Lecka]

We are gently-to-strongly pushing for Boy Scouts right now.  It is a good deal for him and he does like it.  There are challenges for him, but he is on board to a great extent.

 

I think I am around a lot of people who go "we want our kids to do these certain things, so our kids will do them."  

 

And, no repercussions. 

 

It is hard to not have that option.

 

I don't mind any other comments at all.

[Angel in FL]

I do appreciate all the conversation and understanding how we all approach things with our kids. I don't really feel that I have to defend myself but I do want to make sure that there wasn't a misunderstanding. My daughter has done cheer for 5 years and has always enjoyed it. She's had her frustrating moments but we all do. Her move to this gym was to try to give her an age appropriate gym for her skill level instead of an older team at her original gym. The new gym was just way intense in the way of conditioning, and a lot of kids can handle that. My daughter couldn't.  Her old gym was intense but in a different way.  She did fine with that. We've known she's had issues and have been working on those for a while. The issues just spiked at the new gym.

Would it have happened anywhere else at this time? Maybe... The doctors say that she's at the age where anxiety peaks. Who knows. If we had left her at her old gym, she may have been fine. Or it may just have exploded at another time. Still not sure on the school front.

But... The situation didn't go on long and yes, I did try to let her work through it for a few weeks because that's what the dr said we should do. Was it heartbreaking? Yes. But all of those weeks weren't that bad and she did well some of the time. When it escalated, I took her out.

For school, it baffles me because she has loved school since she started in mid 2nd grade. I guess it all hit the fan at the same time. The school could have been better to her/us but they weren't. Maybe I was fried and should have given it more time there to work out but she was in a state and I went into protective mode there too.

I guess I just didn't want you all to think that she was pushed for a long time to do something she didn't want to do. As a matter of fact, she says she still wants to cheer as well as go to school. That's what she told the psychologist. So, if and when she's ready we will approach both of those things at whatever pace she wants, with the doctor's guidance.

Until then, she is home, calm and safe.

 

Edited to add… if I had my way, she would have been a dancer.  lol.  That's what I wanted!!

[Heathermomster]

OP, I am reading this thread and never for a moment thought that you were pushing your girl too hard.  It is very clear that you are supporting your DD in a sport that she loves.  Unfortunately, sports turn competitive early it seems, so it makes things difficult for our kids. During swim lessons, I have witnessed dads yelling at their small kids for being fearful in the pool.  Like the dad was embarrassed about their DD's fear of water?  Really?  

 

Some people just don't know how to handle kids, be it kids with issues or not.  Way to go teacher for really using negative reinforcement!  What a cow!  I just want to go box that cheer coach's ears.  

 

I'm sorry that your DD is experiencing terrible anxiety.  (((Hugs))) and please update to let us know how things work out.  

 

 

[kbutton]

 I guess it all hit the fan at the same time. 

 

Sometimes it does.

 

If we could give these exceptionalities our kids are facing personas, I think we could say they have adopted the motto; "Go big, or go home."  :lol:

[Angel in FL]

Sometimes it does.

 

If we could give these exceptionalities our kids are facing personas, I think we could say they have adopted the motto; "Go big, or go home."  :lol:

  In the past, I've said that's my favorite motto.  We laughed about it when my son joined the Marines.  Maybe I don't like that motto anymore.  lol.

[Pen]

This is reminding me of an interview I once heard with UCLA basketball coach John Wooden who was able to coach his teams to victories with hard work, yes, but also kindness and respect, not abusiveness.  I know he has written some books and done some films. If any are available to you at a level your daughter can understand, it might be helpful to her.

 

I am curious to know if the cheer coach your daughter had is actually building champions with his techniques.  Even if he is, just as with basketball, I am sure that such methods are not necessary and probably harm more people than they help. 

 

I have had bad experiences like that personally in arts areas with teachers who also behaved in traumatizing ways, though in those cases more emotional than physical.

 

2 sports my son has been involved in have had coaches who have themselves been National gold medalists when they were younger and have sent kids on to Nationals for the sport, and all these coaches have been kind people. I don't think being stressed to the almost throwing up point is in any way a requirement for becoming a champion.