Interesting Article on Hampshire College's Move to a "No SAT/ACT Policy"

[SeaConquest]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/09/25/what-one-college-discovered-when-it-stopped-accepting-satact-scores/?tid=sm_fb

[MarkT]

It seems like the correct choice for this small college probably not for large state U.  My local state U just enrolled 8000 freshman!

[Harriet Vane]

Good for them!!!

 

I think more colleges should embrace this model.

[TechWife]

It seems like the correct choice for this small college probably not for large state U.  My local state U just enrolled 8000 freshman!

 

What does size have to do with anything? It's a change in how applicants are evaluated. I'm sure it might take them more time to evaluate an applicant holistically, but students are more than numbers.  

 

Not requiring test scores for admission is a growing trend. I hope it continues. 

[Pawz4me]

If this chart is correct there are already several large state universities that are test optional.  I suspect the list will grow much longer.

[Guest]

I may need to boommark that school. I have one for whom no tests would be awesome!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm not sure if this would work to the advantage of my kids.  Already, their academic records are suspect because I am the one who has graded many of their courses and who put together their transcript and course descriptions.  Having a stack of test scores that supports the grades I've put on their transcripts helps my kids.

 

And for my kid who wants to go into computer science or mech eng, needing to write several more essays would be a painful trade for the simplicity of a test score.  Tests don't reveal everything about a person, but neither does an essay.  (My ds is especially frustrated when faced with a number of personal essays, because he hates to write what he sees as bragging.  He's a deeds not words guy.)

[wapiti]

It sounds like it has been a good decision for this particular school.  Different schools have different needs though and it's easy to imagine that a school with a 70% acceptance rate may not find standardized test scores to be particularly useful.  OTOH, more selective schools have a harder time distinguishing between applicants and might find such data helpful.

 

I don't know anything about this particular school (other than a quick google indicating that it isn't inexpensive), but it seems to me that their admissions process would attract particular types of students.

 

I think the only event that will cause selective schools to place less emphasis on standardized test scores is the extent to which the tests fail to distinguish between applicants.  That is, if the tests become either too easy or even less predictive of ability, more schools may make do without them.  My lament is the change in the SAT over the past twenty years from being an ability test to an achievement test, especially with the latest changes starting this spring.  In the distant past, a bright student who botched high school and/or attended a bad high school at least had a way to demonstrate that diamond-in-the-rough ability; that chance is all but gone.

 

In the opposite direction, IIRC, CO School of Mines does not request recommendation letters and the personal statement is optional.  I don't know how optional that really is for a school with an acceptance rate in the 30s, but I'm guessing that at least one of my kids will apply there (we are in state).  Now that's my kind of application LOL.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

One thing in the article that did make me want to stand up and cheer was the section where he discussed the fact that Hampshire now isn't a US News ranked school because they don't use SAT/ACT scores.  He made the point that with a substantial part of the ranking based on the attibutes of incoming students (test scores, gpa, class rank) that you know a lot about the education of the students choosing to go to that school, but not really much about the education they get while they are in college.

 

DS2 and I were looking at the rankings for political science departments, which are grad school rankings, based on surveys of academics at similar schools.  The ranking list defied logic.  The rankings really seems to boil down to a name recognition measurement.  (Which no doubt explains a lot of the spam emails we've been getting over the last year.)

[EKS]

I noticed when my son was applying to college last year that test "optional" schools changed to test required when the applicant was a homeschooler.

 

While I understand that not everyone's performance on tests reflects their actual ability, I'm concerned that moving to a system where the only "objective" measure of an applicant's ability is their grades will serve to exclude students whose executive skills may not have caught up with their intellectual ability yet.

 

Of course, I'm a bit biased here as I I was admitted to the University of California on the basis of test scores alone, and remarkably, I ended up being one of the successful ones--I graduated.  About two years into my college career, my executive functioning matured.  If the test-only option hadn't existed, I am certain that I would be living a very different life right now.   

DS2 and I were looking at the rankings for political science departments, which are grad school rankings, based on surveys of academics at similar schools.  The ranking list defied logic.  The rankings really seems to boil down to a name recognition measurement.  (Which no doubt explains a lot of the spam emails we've been getting over the last year.)

 

It sure would be handy to rate undergraduate departments based on the ratings not of their own graduate departments, but on the graduate rankings of the schools their undergraduates go to.

 

Assuming, of course, that grad school is your goal.

[Osmosis Mom]

I think it is an awesome stance and I say that after having sent off three kids to college. The ACT/SAT- dance is a profiteering business and way over-rated. Even math-inclined students need to be able to write well and I say this having a kid who is an awful writer but who still wants to go to college. We ended up doing the ACT after we began the SAT and SAT-subject testing for the oldest and it was quite an investment not to mention getting all test scores sent off to each college she applied for.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It sure would be handy to rate undergraduate departments based on the ratings not of their own graduate departments, but on the graduate rankings of the schools their undergraduates go to.

 

Assuming, of course, that grad school is your goal.

 

I'd love to see things like average stats for that specific department, access to professors and specialty classes and how much students have learned coming out the other end of the program.

 

When I was getting my English undergrad, there were some amazing specialty courses that were only offered one semester when a prof wanted to do it.  Because upperclass students had priority, these courses were often full of non-majors meeting their HUM/SS requirement before English majors could register for them.  I'm still bitter about missing out on a couple of these.

 

With big universities, I'm finding the average stats of little use to determine if my kid will fit in with a CS or engineering degree program.  

With big universities, I'm finding the average stats of little use to determine if my kid will fit in with a CS or engineering degree program.  

 

This is where very directed question can be useful during an on-campus visit.

[Nan in Mass]

Maybe we are unusual, but my sons looked at a number of schools that were test-optional. I thought it was fairly common. I keep seeing lists of these schools around. Maybe it is more common in New England? The catch is that they were all test-optional ONLY for non-homeschoolers. The very alternativy colleges (like Marlboro and Hampshire) attract homeschooling applicants and were especially careful to specify this.

 

Nan

 

PS Personally, I am thankful for the SATs for the same reason as EKS. Youngest loved RPI,s statistic based short app. I also have one who tests badly and I hate the testing business, so I can see both sides of the issue.

[teachermom2834]

I think this is different in that it is not test optional.  They will not accept test scores even if you want to send them.  I think that makes this different than the ones that have been test optional for awhile.  My ds is applying to one that is test optional but I am grateful to send his scores because they strengthen his application.

[Nan in Mass]

I think this is different in that it is not test optional. They will not accept test scores even if you want to send them. I think that makes this different than the ones that have been test optional for awhile. My ds is applying to one that is test optional but I am grateful to send his scores because they strengthen his application.

Ah. That makes more sense (as something to talk about). I can,t currently load articles and missed the not allowed part. Because of the way Hampshire is structured, they probably have a high interest in weeding out students like us, EKS grin, so the lack of test scores is probably to their advantage. Hampshire was an outlier even when I was in college so I am not surprised they,ve gone this route, especially as the testing industry has expanded.

 

Nan

And for my kid who wants to go into computer science or mech eng, needing to write several more essays would be a painful trade for the simplicity of a test score.  

 

 

Presumably, a "No SAT/ACT" stem school would have a different entrance requirement than an essay -- maybe, show us a project you've built, or a program you've written.

[Nan in Mass]

One of mine is at a test optional for non-homeschoolers tech school. They asked that you submit something hard you had done that you felt was indicative of your abilities (or something like that). You also had to explain why you picked that thing. This gave the students who had built or solved or invented something cool plenty of space to show it off. Even for homeschoolers, the testing was fairly minimal. When my son asked whether having SAT2 scores would strengthen his application (they weren,t required), they told him not to take them for their sake. So no SAT scores can also work for tech schools, even though testing makes more sense in this environment, I think, because a test can measure one,s ability to crank through lots of math problems quickly, something that is necessary for surviving engineering school. I,m not sure large schools with small budgets could manage, and I wonder about the ways in which it puts students with no support at a disadvantage, but test optional tech schools exist, anyway.

 

Nan

[Sebastian (a lady)]

One of mine is at a test optional for non-homeschoolers tech school. They asked that you submit something hard you had done that you felt was indicative of your abilities (or something like that). You also had to explain why you picked that thing. This gave the students who had built or solved or invented something cool plenty of space to show it off. Even for homeschoolers, the testing was fairly minimal. When my son asked whether having SAT2 scores would strengthen his application (they weren,t required), they told him not to take them for their sake. So no SAT scores can also work for tech schools, even though testing makes more sense in this environment, I think, because a test can measure one,s ability to crank through lots of math problems quickly, something that is necessary for surviving engineering school. I,m not sure large schools with small budgets could manage, and I wonder about the ways in which it puts students with no support at a disadvantage, but test optional tech schools exist, anyway.

 

Nan

 

This is actually part of why I'm disappointed in the changes to the SAT.  I feel like it has shifted a lot more emphasis onto critical reading skills.  In order to really do well on the math, you now have to be able to wade through some pretty confusing text to fish out details and figure out what information they are looking for.  On one hand it is good and worthy to know how to apply mathematical reasoning.  But there is also something to be said for being able to calculate correctly and know when a calculation is wrong.  I think the new test is going to really disadvantage students who may have strong math skills but may still be mastering English.