What's your denomination's take on the Rapture? (CC)

[DawnM]

I have always gone to an evangelical type church.  We (evangelicals) were a bit obsessed with the idea of the rapture in the 70s.  I remember in Jr. High watching those horrible movies, Thief in the Night, A Distant Thunder, etc.....

 

I was terrified.  I kept thinking, "What if I don't have everything just right and I get beheaded because I am left behind?"

 

And then there was Larry Norman's "You've Been Left Behind" song.

 

Oy.  

 

I am not sure what my full beliefs are on this.  I don't think any of us knows.  

[MercyA]

I haven't quite decided, and it doesn't really matter anyway :)

 

:iagree: I'm not dogmatic about eschatology.  However, Scripture does seem to teach that believers will go through the Tribulation. I think some people can be too quick to assume that popular fiction writers have it all right.  ;)

 

At my Bible church, most if not all of the other members believe in a pre-trib Rapture. That was not the case in a Reformed Baptist church I previously attended. 

[milovany]

Nope, it's not a new teaching or concept.

 

 

Thanks for sharing the link. It was interesting to learn of St. Ephraim's thoughts on the matter, assuming the source matter was valid (I didn't look into it any further than taking a peek at the link). I would say, though, that one church fathers's quote does not a theology/doctrine make. Just because one church father said something about a topic doesn't mean it was or became Holy Tradition in the church. I think that's the point of those posting above about the theology of a rapture being a 19th century innovation. Never in church history was a rapture considered to be a standard/basic doctrine of the church until the mid 20th century and then, only in the protestant sector.

 

That's still the case today. You can have a Christian person or group, even highly respected ones, teach their thoughts/beliefs on a matter, but that doesn't make it standard small-o orthodox Christian doctrine accepted by all/most Christians. 

[Guest]

:::snip:::

 

I kept thinking, "What if I don't have everything just right and I get beheaded because I am left behind?"

 

And then there was Larry Norman's "You've Been Left Behind" song.

 

Oy.  

 

Two sentences I left from your post:  

 

1.  One of the bloggers I read wrote this one time:  "I don't think I could ever be a saint, but maybe I could be a martyr--if they killed me real quick."

 

2.  I can still sing alllll the words.  He came to our church for a concert when I was in 9th grade, and I'll betcha allll the words are still in my brain.  Ack.

[PrincessMommy]

I've read some St. Ephraim.. the language doesn't look like it's his, but I could be wrong so I did a little googling.  It appears it is Psuedo-Ephraem and dates to about 700AD, which is 400 years off from THE St. Ephraim (Ephraem) the Syrian.  The text it is both Latin and Syriac.  Ephraem only wrote in Syriac.

 

It appears the the Pseudo version is spurious and written about the Islamic Invasion, which of course many Christians at that time would have thought would be the end times.  

 

This link breaks it down:

 

http://www.bible.ca/rapture-pseudo-ephraem-latin-syraic-texts.htm

 

Bullet point B: speaks directly to our topic of Rapture theology: 

 

B. The Syraic text of Pseudo-Ephraem does not teach Rapture theology since the saints suffer and die during the tribulation:

 

And this is the Wiki article about it:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Pseudo-Ephraem

 

It's also known as "The Sermon at the End of the World" which of course all (most??) Christians believe that there will be a time of Christ's return.  The particulars are what we disagree on.

[Bluegoat]

So you basically believe that Revelations was just made up by someone in the 19th century.  Seriously?

 

Seriously, no.  No one thinks the book was made up in the 19th century. 

 

The particular way of understanding it, this idea of a rapture where people will be taken up and others left to face a period of tribulation which has become popular in evangelical/fundamentalist circles.  Yes.  Violet Crown's historical explanation is good, but within modern American Christianity it is a 19th century phenomena that is related to a lot of the spiritualist movements that were popular at the time.

 

[JenniferB]

The Rapture and the Left Behind ideas have caused quite the kerbobble in our family through the years. Since becoming Orthodox I have endeavored to learn what the ancient and traditional understanding of Revelation was/is. I came across this series of podcasts by Dr. Jeannie Constantineau. For a deeper study than, "we don't believe in the Rapture," which is true, but maybe you want to know more...I recommend the time investment in listening to these:

 

http://orthodoxbiblestudy.info/an-orthodox-view-of-the-end-times/

[Jasperstone]

And then there was Larry Norman's "You've Been Left Behind" song.

 

**************************************

 

I thought Cliff Richard sang it.

[Jasperstone]

I've read some St. Ephraim.. the language doesn't look like it's his, but I could be wrong so I did a little googling. It appears it is Psuedo-Ephraem and dates to about 700AD, which is 400 years off from THE St. Ephraim (Ephraem) the Syrian. The text it is both Latin and Syriac. Ephraem only wrote in Syriac.

 

It appears the the Pseudo version is spurious and written about the Islamic Invasion, which of course many Christians at that time would have thought would be the end times.

 

This link breaks it down:

 

http://www.bible.ca/rapture-pseudo-ephraem-latin-syraic-texts.htm

 

Bullet point B: speaks directly to our topic of Rapture theology:

 

And this is the Wiki article about it:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Pseudo-Ephraem

 

It's also known as "The Sermon at the End of the World" which of course all (most??) Christians believe that there will be a time of Christ's return. The particulars are what we disagree on.

 

How confusing!

[Professormom]

Anglican here too. Never heard of rapture until homeschooling forums.

 

What I have been taught is that everyone goes to paradise. Everyone, Hitler could be sitting next to Mother Theresa. Then, at the second coming, people or sent to heaven or not. But Hitller could end up in heaven. It is not for us to judge or predict. We can pray for people in paradise. Oh, and Anglican paradise is more or less like Catholic purgatory, but it sounds better.

 

I have never heard any mention, ever, of people left on Earth at time of second coming.

 

The priests I know will also add that, for pastoral purposes, when talking to a family of someone who has died, they will skip the paradise part and say that he deceased went to heaven. No mention of judgement or second coming.

 

Btw, this is from theologically conservative Anglican priests teaching classes. I cannot speak to more sophisticated Anglican theology on this topic.

Interesting. I have never heard this take. Off to look into this further :auto:

[Alessandra]

Interesting. I have never heard this take. Off to look into this further :auto:

Even though I heard this years ago in a confirmation class, I remember it clearly, because I was surprized too. The priest in now an archdeacon in another diocese, and I assume he was not way off....

 

Before kids, I would have rushed to look this up. Now, I am content to wait for your comments. :-)

[Bluegoat]

Even though I heard this years ago in a confirmation class, I remember it clearly, because I was surprized too. The priest in now an archdeacon in another diocese, and I assume he was not way off....

 

Before kids, I would have rushed to look this up. Now, I am content to wait for your comments. :-)

 

To me, this looks like a really simplified version of what would be a fairly standard teaching.  It's also true that sometimes in pastoral situations you see that because people are not always in a good place to be having a theological lesson.  I'm a bit surprised though to see such a simplification in a lesson.

 

The idea that the souls of all the dead are in the presence of God is a common one.  To say that is paradise or even Heaven isn't exactally wrong, but it ignores that it would normally be considered that different people do not experience God's love in the same way.  If you have rejected truth, or to put it another way are holding onto untruths like hatred or anger, God's love can only be destructive to those things. So it will be experienced negatively.  If you are positively disposed, it will be a different story.  So often this experience of God is described as a foretaste of what an individual will find at the final judgement.  And it may be that this experience can affect what happens to us in the end in some way, some might consider that the cleansing fire of purgatory, or use different words for a similar meaning.

 

Then, after the final judgement, there is the resurrection of the body and a newly made Earth, rather than just more time in Heaven.  And generally yes, trying to predict how individuals will respond is considered a folly. 

[Alessandra]

To me, this looks like a really simplified version of what would be a fairly standard teaching. It's also true that sometimes in pastoral situations you see that because people are not always in a good place to be having a theological lesson. I'm a bit surprised though to see such a simplification in a lesson.

 

The idea that the souls of all the dead are in the presence of God is a common one. To say that is paradise or even Heaven isn't exactally wrong, but it ignores that it would normally be considered that different people do not experience God's love in the same way. If you have rejected truth, or to put it another way are holding onto untruths like hatred or anger, God's love can only be destructive to those things. So it will be experienced negatively. If you are positively disposed, it will be a different story. So often this experience of God is described as a foretaste of what an individual will find at the final judgement. And it may be that this experience can affect what happens to us in the end in some way, some might consider that the cleansing fire of purgatory, or use different words for a similar meaning.

 

Then, after the final judgement, there is the resurrection of the body and a newly made Earth, rather than just more time in Heaven. And generally yes, trying to predict how individuals will respond is considered a folly.

Actually, you have described, in more detail -- and probably better -- than I did, what the Anglican priests I know say. Many of the talks we had were from people who taught at a nearby theological seminary. *They* were not overly simple -- my posts were the simple version.

 

But no rapture, no left behind.