Extra fees after moving out this normal for CA apt rentals

[*LC]

This sounds weird to me, but it has been a long time since I rented an apartment.

 

My college kid interned in CA this summer, living with other interns in an unfurnished apartment. Now they have moved out, and the apt complex wants to keep the deposit as well as charge them more money to pay for painting, carpet,and utilities.

 

The lease says the deposit is to cover wear-n-tear above normal to the apt and carpet. There is no mention of cleaning fees. However, the apt says these are normal fees that everyone pays, even if it is not mentioned in the lease, to pay to get the apt ready for next tenant (or to renovate the apt, they have been told both stories). They were in the apt less than 90 days, which was the time specified on the lease. They did no damage, left it clean & vacumned. There was no move-in or move-out inspection, as they did both of those things on the weekend.

 

The apt says the renters are young and they don't understand how things work. Years ago, we rented a corporate apt in CA for a few months, and I would remember if they had wanted us to pay to renovate the apartment.

 

Are these normal fees? Is it normal not to be in lease?

[DawnM]

Never heard of it and last time I checked, they have 30 days to give you an itemized list of why they are even keeping your deposit.  That was years ago that I checked, but I rented an apt and the landlords didn't refund my deposit.  I checked the law and since it was beyond the 30 days I simply made a copy of the law, and enclosed a letter saying they had X amount of time to refund my money or I would see them in small claims court.  

 

I got my full refund back.

[Alicia64]

You know how credit card companies made BUCKS off of overcharge fees? Well, overcharging people who don't know the rules when they leave their apartment is one way apartments make a TON of profit.

 

Your son needs to fight w/ well worded letters saying that he has photos of the apartment when he moved in (he should have taken them, but if he didn't this will scare the apt. people) and that he isn't legally responsible for a, b or c.

 

They stuck friends w/ over $1,000 in illegal issues, but since my friends were from another country they were terrified to fight. They tried to stick us with $350. I had photos and the ability to write a letter. I paid zero.

 

Your son, essentially, is from another country: the country of childhood. These adults have been taking advantage of renters for decades.

 

Look up legal law, but generally the apartment people fold pretty quickly when you say "we have photos" and know our legal rights. They don't want to go to court w/ every tenant -- they don't have time. Plus they know the judge would likely side w/ the tenant.

 

Don't go quietly into the night on this one. Apartment folks are -- for the most part -- crooks.

 

Alley

[DawnM]

Here is some info.  Looks like it is 21 days now:

 

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

[DawnM]

Here is some advice:

 

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/legally-can-my-old-landlord-charge-me-more-than-th-654379.html

[Arcadia]

It is not normal. The deposit covers everything. The leasing offices nearby are open everyday so someone would sign off that there are no damages.
Utilities would either be included in the rent agreement (water, trash, electric, gas, landline, cable and internet) or the short term renter would have to get their own utilities account.

How many units does this apartment complex have? My friends and I have only rented in those with over 400 units and we had gotten the full security deposit back. The maintenance crew just spend a morning cleaning and the new tenants move in in the afternoon.

Rents are very high here but haven't heard any horror stories about landlord charging beyond what is explicitly stated in the rental contract.

 

ETA:

There are many fresh high school graduates or current undergrads renting three to a 1 bedroom apartment or five to a 2 bedroom apartment in a nearby city. I won't consider 18 years old young for a renter. Most places have a move in/move out checklist which the leasing office signs off.

[Tess in the Burbs]

We rent, and unless CA has radically different laws from most states it is not correct info from the landlord.  Legally they are supposed to give you an itemized list of what damage is being assessed and the cost to repair.  And even that could be argued if the price seems extremely high and you could provide a quote for much less.  I agree that move in pictures/move out pictures with dates (hold newspaper with that day's date on it) helps.  And if the state has a move in/move out checklist that is even better.  (my current state doesn't have that law and I wish it did)

 

They need to speak loudly that they understand the law.  Look it up, be prepared.  But I would fight it.  Unless the places was trashed I don't think he can just ask for more money.  It seems if the repairs were above and beyond the deposit he would have to sue for it.  Only inexperienced renters would just give more money.  you know? 

 

hope they get it worked out

[idnib]

CA landlord here. Not normal.

[Carol in Cal.]

Not even legal.

They can charge for cleaning fees, but not for normal wear and tear.  People who move out are not obligated to pay for repainting unless it is necessitated by their dirtying the walls, for instance.

And there is the pesky deadline as well.

And the burden of proof of the starting and ending condition is more so on the landlord.

[blackjackoaktree]

hahaha. I went through that with a house in Illinois about 4 years ago. They kept the deposit and wanted something like $2000 more. I asked them for an itemized list, and instead, upped their figure to $10,000 with a list of ridiculous things--- (wood window frames needing replacement due to warping and dry rotting, even a drunkin frathouse cannot warp wood in three years) and that we should pay the $2000 extra or go to court for the $10000 + fees because they had video taken prior to our move in. We called their bluff and told them we'd see them in court. IT's been 4 years and we haven't heard peep.

 

Though even if they did suddenly decide to do that, we took move in/move out pictures, sealed the envalopes and had them noterized. ANd really, the stuff they were trying to charge us for in their 'scare' letter, any judge would have thrown it out!  (built in wall air conditioner leaked and dryrotted framing forcing them to therefore install central air, I mean, come. on.) There's more.

[Kathy in Richmond]

My California kids have each moved a couple of times & have always got their security deposits back in full. Hope your daughter can work this out.

[Guest]

Always do inspections!!!

 

But no, if it's not specifically in the lease they can't do that.

 

If it's in the lease they can do basically whatever they want.

[*LC]

Thanks everyone. They are still within the 21-days, which they knew about from the lease. The lease also talks about the 4 things the security deposit does, which does not include cleaning fees. 

 

For some reason this apt complex had odd hours, maybe because they moved out during the middle of the month. I don't have a reason to doubt my kid on this, because the amount of money the apt wants is something she could handle paying on her own without even mentioning it to me. She is just mad about them wanting more money in addition to keeping the deposit. .

 

They paid some utilities themselves and some through the apt. So, she doesn't question the utility charges, even though they are higher than they paid the other months.

 

The apt folks keep saying that these charges are normal and that no one complains, because everyone in CA has these charges. That is why I was asking here to see if everyone in Ca knew there were unknown fees when you move out. Glad to here they are not. The roommates all finished their sophomore years in college and are 20, but the apt folks keep saying they are young and don't know how things work. One of the parents also asked questions, but isn't from the US. 

 

The apt doesn't say there was damage does and admits they came up with these charges, before inspecting the apt after they roommates moved out.

 

They told my kid they would send an itemized bill, which is prorated fee of how much it costs to repaint and replace the carpet every 3 years. They told the mom they would lessen the charges, so we will see what is on the itemized bill. Right now they were told they were being charged $150 for utilities and an unknown amount for paint and carpet. 

 

It was a nice/expensive complex. I don't know how many units. It is one that has normal rentals and short-term rentals, furnished and unfurnished. 

 

 

[*LC]

I forgot to say that the apt says these fees are not in the lease, because they change. 

[Arcadia]

They told my kid they would send an itemized bill, which is prorated fee of how much it costs to repaint and replace the carpet every 3 years.

The second rental we stayed in here replace the carpet every 2 years. It was included in the rent.

 

Your kid was in a short term rental which would already cost more per month than a long term lease. Lowes and Home Depot quote us less than $300 for recarpeting an average size apartment with the cheapest carpet. We had stains created by our kids that we didn't had time to clean when moving out. Our security deposit would have covered that and ours was a one year lease.

[Carol in Cal.]

Even if the security deposit is not for cleaning, state law provides that cleaning costs are recoupable from it.  Under the law tenants are responsible for cleaning costs and damage that is in excess of normal wear and tear.  The painting that they are trying to charge her for prorata is normal wear and tear and she is not responsible for it under law.  Ditto for the carpet.  And if it's a large complex with a management company, they know that.  This is BS.

 

My guess is that the reason no one objects is that if it's a short term rental type place a lot of the tenants are corporate housing.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

Also, they can't charge a base cleaning fee for normal wear and tear if it's not in the lease. Check the lease.

 

I had a landlord (actually, the same dude who thought I should just live with water pouring through the ceiling that I mentioned on another thread a few days ago) who tried to keep the whole deposit for cleaning up. Uh, the place was immaculate when I moved out after being disgusting when I moved in. A letter, indicating that I had pictures and access to legal help from the tenants union resulted in the rapid return of my full deposit, with interest.