dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I hope this is okay. I found the political posting guidelines kind of hazy. I thought, since this is a homeschooling board, and we all love books, that talk of banned books would be an enjoyable intellectual exercise. Also, I openly admit I haven't looked up the source of the list yet and you may want to do that before you get your debate hat on. It is unverifiable, which is, in my opinion, all the more reason to discuss the merits of the books. Personally I HATED Clockwork Orange and see no reason why anyone would ever want to read it, but I still couldn't abide censorship. Also, I read A Separate Peace in high school and have no idea why anyone would want to ban it. Am I not remembering something horrible that happens in it? As I recall it had all kinds of symbolism, or at least, my tutor thought so. We have a copy of Heather Has Two Mommies signed to one of our kids, but I much prefer Leslea Newman's adult fiction. Oh, and I find the notion of someone trying to ban Atwood's A Handmaid's Tale terrible and ironic. 1. A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess 2. A Separate Peace by John Knowles 3. A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle 4. Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden 5. As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner 6. Blubber by Judy Blume 7. Brave New World by Aldous Huxley 8. Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson 9. Canterbury Tales by Chaucer 10. Carrie by Stephen King 11. Catch-22 by Joseph Heller 12. Christine by Stephen King 13. Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau 14. Cujo by Stephen King 15. Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen 16. Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite 17. Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck 18. Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller 19. Decameron by Boccaccio 20. East of Eden by John Steinbeck 21. Fallen Angels by Walter Myers 22.Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland 23. Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes 24. Forever by Judy Blume 25. Grendel by John Champlin Gardner 26. Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam 27. Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling 28. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling 29. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling 30. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling 31. Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman 32. How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell 33. I Have to Go! by Robert Munsch 34. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou 35. Impressions edited by Jack Booth 36. In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak 37. It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein 38. James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl 39. Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence 40. Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman 41. Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm 42. Lord of the Flies by William Golding 43. Love Is One of the Choices by Norma Klein 44. Lysistrata by Aristophanes 45. More Scary Stories To Tell In The Dark by Alvin Schwartz 46. My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier 47. My House by Nikki Giovanni 48. My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara 49. Night Chills by Dean Koontz 50. Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck 51. On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer 52. One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn 53. One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey 54. One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez 55. Ordinary People by Judith Guest 56. Our Bodies, Ourselves by the Boston Woman's Health Collective 57. Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy 58. Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl 59. Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz 60. Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz 61.Silas Marner by George Eliot 62. Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. 63. Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs 64. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain 65. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain 66. The Bastard by John Jakes 67. The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger 68. The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier 69. The Color Purple by Alice Walker 70. The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth 71. The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs 72. The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck 73. The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson 74. The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood 75. The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Keatley Snyder 76. The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks 77. The Living Bible by William C. Bower 78. The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare 79. The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman 80. The Pigman by Paul Zindel 81. The Seduction of Peter S. by Peter Sanders 82. The Shining by Stephen King 83. The Witches by Roald Dahl 84. The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Keatley Snyder 85. Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume 86. To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee 87. Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare 88. Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff 89. Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Wait! Where's Lolita by Nabakov? That wasn't on the list? Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I am against banning any books, let me get that out front. I do think some books should come with a warning for clueless parents who never screen what their children are reading. I do not want my 7yr.old ds reading things with sexual content, for example, which many "middle school" age books have, and that is the level he is reading at. I looked at this list and thought there is no way this can be real. "My Friend Flicka"? Shakespeare? A Wrinkle in Time? The guy passing this list around is a Democrat running for state rep in New Hampshire. He gives some other guy the credit for the list and I haven't googled him yet. I would be very suspect of this being a real list at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendi Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Until I see something to convince me that the list is authentic. Someone named Andrew someone posted it on a blog about libraries. I have no idea who this guy is, or where he supposedly go the list. Not meaning to be disrespectful to the OP (who also notes she hasn't checked the source), just urging caution. Wendi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivium Academy Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm also against banning books and doubt the validity of this claim based on the source of the list. Where is the list of "did you know this about Biden?" I find the singling out of Palin disgusting and do not see a lot of matters discussed here relevant to the job she is applying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm pretty sure A Wrinkle In Time does show up on commonly banned book lists...let me see...it's on wiki's list. The A Wrinkle In Time wiki says: L'Engle's liberal Christianity has been the target of criticism, especially with respect to certain elements of A Wrinkle in Time. This novel is on the American Library Association list of the 100 Most Frequently Challenged Books of 1990–2000 at number 22.[11] Reasons given include the book's references to witches and crystal balls[12] (although the characters are not in fact witches, and the crystal ball is a science fictional one), the claim that it "challenges religious beliefs"[13], and the listing of Jesus "with the names of great artists, philosophers, scientists, and religious leaders".[14] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 "The smear merchants who continue to circulate the list also failed to do a simple Google search, which would have showed them that the bogus Sarah Palin Banned Book List is almost an exact copy-and-paste reproduction of a generic list of “Books Banned at One Time or Another in the United States” that has been floating around the Internet for years. STACLU notes that the official Obama campaign website is also perpetuating the fraud. And it’s spread to craigslist, where some unhinged user is posting images likening Palin to Hitler." http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/06/the-bogus-sarah-palin-banned-books-list/ I can find lots of websites which say the Palin Banned Book List is bogus. I didn't check Obama's website to see if he is "perpetrating the fraud". I tried to, but it made me ill to keep reading it. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I am against banning any books, let me get that out front.I do think some books should come with a warning for clueless parents who never screen what their children are reading. I do not want my 7yr.old ds reading things with sexual content, for example, which many "middle school" age books have, and that is the level he is reading at. I looked at this list and thought there is no way this can be real. "My Friend Flicka"? Shakespeare? A Wrinkle in Time? The guy passing this list around is a Democrat running for state rep in New Hampshire. He gives some other guy the credit for the list and I haven't googled him yet. I would be very suspect of this being a real list at all. A Wrinkle in Time is #22 on the ALA list of most frequently challenged books. :001_huh: So far I haven't found any confirmation that this list is tied to Sarah Palin, but apparently many people want to see A Wrinkle in Time banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 "The smear merchants who continue to circulate the list also failed to do a simple Google search, which would have showed them that the bogus Sarah Palin Banned Book List is almost an exact copy-and-paste reproduction of a generic list of “Books Banned at One Time or Another in the United States†that has been floating around the Internet for years. STACLU notes that the official Obama campaign website is also perpetuating the fraud. And it’s spread to craigslist, where some unhinged user is posting images likening Palin to Hitler." http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/06/the-bogus-sarah-palin-banned-books-list/ Do you have a link to this being mentioned on the Obama site? I can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 It's not the banning of books, it's not even the book titles. It's the name of the post. As you said, it's unverifiable. It appears you're not after an "enjoyable intellectual exercise" as much as you are interested in participating in a smear campaign. I may be wrong, though. Aggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Books banned at one time or the other in the United States, Google search, with no mention of Palin the search: Books Banned at One Time or Another in the United States A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner Blubber by Judy Blume Brave New World by Aldous Huxley Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson Canterbury Tales by Chaucer Carrie by Stephen King Catch-22 by Joseph Heller Christine by Stephen King Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau Cujo by Stephen King Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller Decameron by Boccaccio East of Eden by John Steinbeck Fallen Angels by Walter Myers Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes Forever by Judy Blume Grendel by John Champlin Gardner Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling Have to Go by Robert Munsch Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou Impressions edited by Jack Booth In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm Lord of the Flies by William Golding Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein Lysistrata by Aristophanes More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier My House by Nikki Giovanni My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara Night Chills by Dean Koontz Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez Ordinary People by Judith Guest Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz Separate Peace by John Knowles Silas Marner by George Eliot Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain The Bastard by John Jakes The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier The Color Purple by Alice Walker The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks The Living Bible by William C. Bower The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman The Pigman by Paul Zindel The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders The Shining by Stephen King The Witches by Roald Dahl The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html This list has zero to do with Palin. Don't even get me started on how the list compiler alphabetized titles beginning with "The". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 "The smear merchants who continue to circulate the list also failed to do a simple Google search, which would have showed them that the bogus Sarah Palin Banned Book List is almost an exact copy-and-paste reproduction of a generic list of “Books Banned at One Time or Another in the United States” that has been floating around the Internet for years." It's not unreasonable that a person attempting to clean up their library would start with a list of books often found objectionable. "And it’s spread to craigslist, where some unhinged user is posting images likening Palin to Hitler." That's very silly, but that someone using the comparison to Nazis fallacy also speaks about this list does not make this list untrue. I didn't check Obama's website to see if he is "perpetrating the fraud". I tried to, but it made me ill to keep reading it. Are the fonts wonky, or is that excessive rhetoric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Rough Collie, Thanks for posting the list, but what I really wanted was the link showing it's mentioned on the Obama site. And does anyone have any idea why a Robert Munsch book is on the list??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 It's the name of the post. As you said, it's unverifiable. It appears you're not after an "enjoyable intellectual exercise" as much as you are interested in participating in a smear campaign. Have I smeared Palin in the other political threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Do you have a link to this being mentioned on the Obama site? I can't find it. Nope. If you go to the Obama site, you will have to hunt all over the place for it, and good luck to you. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdWTMer Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Don't even get me started on how the list compiler alphabetized titles beginning with "The". :lol: Oh my goodness! I'm cracking up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Rough Collie, Thanks for posting the list, but what I really wanted was the link showing it's mentioned on the Obama site. And does anyone have any idea why a Robert Munsch book is on the list??? Sorry. I missed your comment about looking at Obama's site earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 Where is the list of "did you know this about Biden?" It wasn't in my inbox this morning. If it shows up, I'll be sure to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 And does anyone have any idea why a Robert Munsch book is on the list??? It's a potty training book, isn't it? I bet it has nudity. That relates to the Galore Park Science Shocker thread on the K-8 board the other day. I found it easier to talk about the parts of kids in books than my own kids' parts, with my first potty trainer; so that kind of nudity was useful for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdWTMer Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 This is just rubbish. Your title while provoking is perpetuating something that is unproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=7 Article with headline Palin asked Wasilla librarian about censoring books : "Were any books censored [or] banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association’s Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed. " Meanwhile, a reader replied to Malkin's post about this: "Reader Martin: “If you read the Anchorage Daily News article, towards the bottom, you find that Palin requested the resignations not only of the librarian, but of several other township officials. Why? Because they were political appointees who openly supported her political opponent. Palin requested the resignations a few days BEFORE she assumed office, apparently for political reasons, as would be routine in ALL such situations, including in the very small town of Washington, DC. [Didn’t some no-name politician fire all of the US Attorneys?] Frankly, it’s far more remarkable (and shows a great deal of tolerance) for Palin to have KEPT Emmons in office. And you’d think people would consider the source when Emmons claims Palin wanted to ban books.” " BTW, I just so you know, I'm not going to vote for Obama, and I haven't made up my mind about Palin. I'm just sick of the lies and unproved allegations cropping up about her. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Have I smeared Palin in the other political threads? in fact, Rose, I've always respected you as a very thoughtful and moderate poster here on the boards. I'm not sure of the source of the list; it sounds like it could be questionable. I'm surprised, too; I'm a conservative Christian, but we've read all of Madeleine L'Engle's books and many of the others. I'm not a big Stephen King fan, but that's because I don't like horror. He's a great writer, though, and I recently bought one of his books about writing for my oldest to read. I wouldn't want to see his books banned. As a parent, I can certainly see object to the location of certain books in a library. For instance, I wouldn't want to see this one: Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen in the kids' section, but I would have no problem with many other books being there. Most librarians use discretion with these things, though, and put books in their appropriate locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 I am against banning any books, let me get that out front.I do think some books should come with a warning for clueless parents who never screen what their children are reading. That's an interesting idea to ponder. I'm not sure that parents who don't want to look at a review of a book would be bothered to stop and look at a warning in a book. Informally, I've come to view the label "Young Adult" or the Newberry award appearing on a book as a warning that it will be either full of sex and curse words, or have disturbing themes. I looked at this list and thought there is no way this can be real. "My Friend Flicka"? Shakespeare? A Wrinkle in Time? My Friend Flicka includes the words "b*tch" and "d*mn," and was thus removed from a grade school reading list at parents request. I would be very suspect of this being a real list at all. As I say, there's no way to verify, since the librarian isn't talking. But the books on it are almost, if not completely, also on other lists of banned books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawn of ns Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm not sure why it really matters what was on the list. The simple fact is that she tried to have some books removed from the library. I'm not sure that makes or breaks anyone's decision is regards to whether they support her or not but it does show that, at the time (it would be interesting to see if her view on book banning has changed), she didn't understand the purpose of a library or the seriousness of what she was attempting to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdWTMer Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm not sure why it really matters what was on the list. The simple fact is that she tried to have some books removed from the library. I'm not sure that makes or breaks anyone's decision is regards to whether they support her or not but it does show that, at the time (it would be interesting to see if her view on book banning has changed), she didn't understand the purpose of a library or the seriousness of what she was attempting to do. She asked, but didn't act on it. That's a big difference in my book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen sn Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Brave New World is a favorite of mine and I love Kurt Vonnegut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 It is my understanding ... I really don't have the time to sit here and check publication dates ... that this list contains books that were published after the time at which she talked to the librarian about banning. I've done some pretty extensive reading about Sarah Palin in the last week, from many different sources. The story appears to be that yes, she did ask the librarian about banning some books. The librarian told her it was not possible, and the situation did not go any further than that. The librarian was later fired, but there were also some unrelated administrative issues involved. The librarian who took over did not ban any books, nor was she apparently asked to do so. The initial librarian herself has - I forget - either refused to comment, or has been unable to be reached for comment. I am firmly against any form of book banning. Thank goodness she wasn't able to get it done. Jessica - I think that in itself, this is a fair thing to bring up. It's *true*. She *did* ask for books to be banned. Biden has not. However, this list is bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdWTMer Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm a conservative Christian as well and I would never, ever want any books banned. The reason: because I don't want the Bible banned, although many people continue to try. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I find the singling out of Palin disgusting and do not see a lot of matters discussed here relevant to the job she is applying for. I see what you're saying. I know a lot of people felt the same way about Clinton, and I know I felt like I watched Obama go through the wringer. That said, while I acknowledge that there's a lot of offensive stuff being said about her on both sides of the aisle (the VPILF stuff really bothers me), I also think that she's being very heavily vetted by more careful thinkers, specifically because no one was able to do it before. From what I'm reading, I'm not convinced the McCain campaign did a thorough job checking her out, either. All discussions about Bristol's pregnancy aside, I'd be completely bowled over if the campaign truly knew about that and went with her anyway. She's new. Unless something large and new happens, the hubbub will die down. That said, I absolutely think that whether or not she'd ban books is relevant. WRT the book list, whether the above list is accurate or not, it sounds to me like dragons was looking more to discuss the merits of/reasons for banning the books on this list. Maybe we could discuss the ALA's top 100 list referenced in the quote above instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah CB Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 And does anyone have any idea why a Robert Munsch book is on the list??? Very strange! Although, it is about "having to go" rather badly. Maybe some people find that offensive??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Have I smeared Palin in the other political threads? I'm not referring to any other political threads. I am referring to the title of this thread. If you want to discuss the merits of certain books, or why some should be in the adult section as opposed to the children's section of a library, fine. Great conversation. That was obviously not the intent of the title of this thread, though. Aggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmamainva Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 88. Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary :blink: Why would a dictionary ever be on a banned books list?? Unless they're bad spellers? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdWTMer Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 From what I'm reading, I'm not convinced the McCain campaign did a thorough job checking her out, either. All discussions about Bristol's pregnancy aside, I'd be completely bowled over if the campaign truly knew about that and went with her anyway. Why? What's the big deal? She got pregnant. I'm really sure that he would have to know! Sarah Palin would not have left something like that out. Not when they are trying to appeal to the conservative base. It's simply a non-issue; as it would be in my book if the situation was a Democrats kiddo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm not referring to any other political threads. I am referring to the title of this thread. If you want to discuss the merits of certain books, or why some should be in the adult section as opposed to the children's section of a library, fine. Great conversation. That was obviously not the intent of the title of this thread, though. Aggie I agree. It would have worked much better as a thoughtful discussion if you had brought up the topic, but left any candidate's name out of it. Since we've probably all heard the story by now, Governor Palin would have been in our minds as we discussed it, anyway ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivetails Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I am referring to the title of this thread. I don't think "The email that I received with a list of books Sarah Palin may or may not have tried to get banned" would have fit. :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingsman Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html The false list of books given in your post is an edited version of the list at the link above. Checking your facts will change your politics; changed mine. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm not referring to any other political threads. I am referring to the title of this thread. Yeah, I know, but you said: "It appears you're not after an 'enjoyable intellectual exercise' as much as you are interested in participating in a smear campaign." So, when I said, "Have I smeared Palin in other political threads?" I was giving evidence of my intentions. I think my posting record speaks for itself. I'm not mean, or even particularly political, but I often lack good judgement, and I'm a sucker for a good debate. :::sigh::: Really. Honestly. I'll scan in my voting registration if you want and you can see that it's Republican. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 Why would a dictionary ever be on a banned books list?? I wondered that too. Does anyone have this dictionary? Maybe they redefined something risque? I can see how you could really wreak havoc on cultural standards by taking liberties with a dictionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I doubt this list is for real. Makes for an interesting thread, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 L'Engle's liberal Christianity has been the target of criticism, especially with respect to certain elements of A Wrinkle in Time. <snip> the claim that it "challenges religious beliefs"[13][/Quote] Has anyone here found that A Wrinkle in Time challenged their religious beliefs? I don't remember that when I read it, but I was kind of prereligious at nine years old. I first became aware that it has a spiritual component when I saw it on a womyn's reading list. I would love to learn what sort of spiritual effect it's had on people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Yeah, I know, but you said: "It appears you're not after an 'enjoyable intellectual exercise' as much as you are interested in participating in a smear campaign." So, when I said, "Have I smeared Palin in other political threads?" I was giving evidence of my intentions. I think my posting record speaks for itself. I'm not mean, or even particularly political, but I often lack good judgement, and I'm a sucker for a good debate. :::sigh::: Really. Honestly. I'll scan in my voting registration if you want and you can see that it's Republican. :001_smile: I believe you! Your posts are pretty friendly. But I have to say, I didn't get very far into this list, & I started LOL. *Nobody* could really try to ban *this* list of books. Maybe some of them, but not all of them. I'm surprised this discussion turned ugly AT ALL. After reading the list, I thought everybody would be laughing w/ me. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 If you are going to quote my posts, please differentiate between what I said and what Michelle Malkin wrote. I quoted and cited Ms. Malkin's words properly. It's not unreasonable that a person attempting to clean up their library would start with a list of books often found objectionable. That's very silly, but that someone using the comparison to Nazis fallacy also speaks about this list does not make this list untrue. Are the fonts wonky, or is that excessive rhetoric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMomof4 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I believe you! Your posts are pretty friendly. But I have to say, I didn't get very far into this list, & I started LOL. *Nobody* could really try to ban *this* list of books. Maybe some of them, but not all of them. I'm surprised this discussion turned ugly AT ALL. After reading the list, I thought everybody would be laughing w/ me. :grouphug: Have you been reading the political threads lately? It hasn't been all peaches and sunshine.... With Palin in the subject line it's likely to get a strong response both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 If you are going to quote my posts, please differentiate between what I said and what Michelle Malkin wrote. I quoted and cited Ms. Malkin's words properly. Yikes, sorry! I fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 . . . which is almost certainly spurious, I too find it an interesting intellectual exercise. There are a few books on here that I find morally or intellectually bankrupt--not "bad" or "evil," just devoid of anything worth reading. I find it amusing that people expend their energies trying to protect or champion these books. If a library decided that it had limited circulation, and these relatively worthless books were trashed to make room for meatier, gentler, or more helpful fare, I wouldn't lose any sleep. There are other books on this list that I look forward to reading with my child, at an appropriate level of maturity, but that I would fight tooth and nail if a school system tried to impose it on him inappropriately. This would certainly be labeled censorship, and would incite headlines about "banning books." I suspect that some of the books on this list are there for that reason--not because communities got together and tried to have them yanked from the B&N, but because a parents' group complained to a school board that their six-year-olds didn't need to be reading "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings." A terrific book that belongs on every high school syllabus, but wildly inappropriate in some contexts. I do get frustrated when that gets labeled censorship. It is censorship, technically, but it is appropriate censorship. I also think that school systems should be a little more respectful of cultural sensitivity when choosing texts. There are some books on that list, for example, that deal with important themes in inflammatory or gratuitously graphic ways. Having such books removed from bookstores or libraries would be censorship worth fighting. Asking them to be moved to the adult section of the public library, or requiring public school systems to respect parental sensibilities by choosing less graphic or less offensive texts to approach the same issues, seems to me in a different category. Public education in this country has to deal with religious and cultural pluralism--which means erring on the side of caution with respect to potentially offensive material. Much as I find redeeming and beautiful in Lewis's "The Horse and His Boy," I would not cry foul if a school district with a heavy Muslim population decided to take it off a "recommended reading" list, or asked a teacher not to use it in her 4th grade reading group. There are equally redeeming and beautiful texts that don't use such heavy-handed stereotypes of Arabs to make their point. It's misleading to label such caution "censorship" or "banning," and I think it ultimately doesn't help us fight genuine censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Has anyone here found that A Wrinkle in Time challenged their religious beliefs? I don't remember that when I read it, but I was kind of prereligious at nine years old. I first became aware that it has a spiritual component when I saw it on a womyn's reading list. I would love to learn what sort of spiritual effect it's had on people. It was probably formative for me. "A Swiftly Tilting Planet" certainly was. They shaped my first real ideas about love as a force, and about negativity as draining of that force. They also likely shaped my first real ideas about interconnection. And magic. However ... I was not raised to be Chrisitan. We were nominally Christian, and occasionally went to church, but I was left to myself to determine my beliefs and spirituality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Has anyone here found that A Wrinkle in Time challenged their religious beliefs? I don't remember that when I read it, but I was kind of prereligious at nine years old. I first became aware that it has a spiritual component when I saw it on a womyn's reading list. I would love to learn what sort of spiritual effect it's had on people. It's a little too trivial to do that. It's just a nice kids' story with a somewhat smarmy bit at the end about love triumphing over evil, madness, and mind control. I suspect that the reason it gets challenged is that there's a line in there (of minor importance) that puts Jesus among a list of people who've contributed to the betterment of the human race. Ultra-conservatives probably read it and think, "Oh! She's saying that Jesus is the same as Buddha!" and don't want their kids to read it. *shrug* ETA: I first read this as an adult, however, with some fairly weighty reading already having influenced my spiritual ideas. I can see why a child might find it more influential, esp. if it were the first "love conquers all" reading he'd done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Yeah, I know, but you said: "It appears you're not after an 'enjoyable intellectual exercise' as much as you are interested in participating in a smear campaign." So, when I said, "Have I smeared Palin in other political threads?" I was giving evidence of my intentions. I think my posting record speaks for itself. I'm not mean, or even particularly political, but I often lack good judgement, and I'm a sucker for a good debate. :::sigh::: Really. Honestly. I'll scan in my voting registration if you want and you can see that it's Republican. :001_smile: I took you at your word about the intellectual exercise part, and answered accordingly below. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Have you been reading the political threads lately? It hasn't been all peaches and sunshine....With Palin in the subject line it's likely to get a strong response both ways. Yup, that was my point. I had to admit that my eyes bugged out when I saw you had posted something with "Palin" in the subject line, Rose, :lol: Can I ask, though ... you're an anarchist, right? Do you vote? (Way to sidetrack, eh? But I've been curious. And if it's a stupid question, please educate me nicely.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawn of ns Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 . . . which is almost certainly spurious, I too find it an interesting intellectual exercise. There are a few books on here that I find morally or intellectually bankrupt--not "bad" or "evil," just devoid of anything worth reading. I find it amusing that people expend their energies trying to protect or champion these books. If a library decided that it had limited circulation, and these relatively worthless books were trashed to make room for meatier, gentler, or more helpful fare, I wouldn't lose any sleep. Until they came for a book you valued. If we stand by as books we see no value in are taken from libraries then we've let the precedent be set by which others can be removed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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