Palin's speech was....

[Osmosis Mom]

I didn't see every speech but I did see Guilani's and Palin's. I didn't witness any racism or overt/covert appeals to christians only. My perspective is not muslim but is it any of less value than Osmosis Mom's? As if I would belong to a racist party. Republicanism does not equal racism. Just ask Darrell Issa.

 

"Islamic terrorists" is a description of the perpetrators, not a some kind of racist torrent. These terrorists describes themselves as devout Muslims. To mention what they are is not racist nor is it an attack on Osmosis Mom or other Muslims. If the terrorists were Hindu, speeches would be made referring to Hindu terrorists.

 

Of course we can argue, just not personally attack. I think that's what Pam was saying.

 

However, all I can say is you must have lived it to know what it feels like. I totally got how the jews felt, wearing David's Star, those days after the event. A walking target, being stared at rudely, nobody holding the door and being polite (like Americans are). And I am not mentioning being physically scared. I could have stayed home, but I chose to walk out and pave the way for open communication.

 

I don't want to get started again. I just wanted the message across that this is not helping us as a country to heal, to make a speech like that. And btw Tim McGovern was not stamped as a Christian terrorist, was he? I must have missed that categorization then.

[Kate CA]

Oh, yes. I understand who's actually running for the office of president.

 

Crissy, I was not patronizing you. Was this necessary? I was trying to discuss the differences between JM and his running mate because they are *big* to most of us conservatives. Evidently that was not what you were after.

 

Still, each man or woman who stands on that stage over these four days has been carefully chosen to represent the party.

Speaking as an undecided moderate, I think Giuliani was a poor choice. If anything, his speech made me a bit less likely to cast my vote in the R column come November.

 

I understand that some moderates are not on the conservative bandwagon, but the R party is still supposedly the conservative party. Most of us who are conservative are really really happy he chose someone who is as a running mate. I think Giuliani's speech was stunning. He exposed Obama's flaws in a really big way. He clearly distinguished JM as a different kind of candidate. Whether JM is really going to be that different kind of candidate - well that remains to be seen. I was not in support of him in the primary.

[LG Gone Wild]

 

However, all I can say is you must have lived it to know what it feels like. I totally got how the jews felt, wearing David's Star, those days after the event. A walking target, being stared at rudely, nobody holding the door and being polite (like Americans are). And I am not mentioning being physically scared. I could have stayed home, but I chose to walk out and pave the way for open communication.

 

I don't want to get started again. I just wanted the message across that this is not helping us as a country to heal, to make a speech like that. And btw Tim McGovern was not stamped as a Christian terrorist, was he? I must have missed that categorization then.

 

 

and yes, he was.

[3littlekeets]

I found her extremely catty. I was shocked at how she attacked Obama, and found it completely inappropriate--but she couldn't really talk about issues she has no experience with, I suppose. So, she was instead petty and inaccurate--Obama wants to FORFEIT the war in Iraq? Please!

 

I was hoping she would go out there and be a wonderful representative of women, and I was horrible disappointed. First, she wasn't the writer of the speech, as she had stated over days. Second, she showed herself to be what she seemed to be at first--a small town woman, but, what I didn't expect, a small minded woman.

 

 

Amen! And, on top of it all, I was disgusted by her blatant use of her son to pander to those of us who have children with special needs (my 7 y.o. has DS), and really, was parading out the 17 year old bf necessary? UGH. I know they are not happy about an unwed pregnant daughter, but a married 17 year old, whose bf is unwilling (see his own myspace page before it was pulled down) is a larger tragedy.

[3littlekeets]

What was petty about it? She said so herself. And she WAS a mayor of a small town. And he WAS a community activist.

 

It's not petty, it just... is.

 

??

 

(Am I missing a bit of what you're saying there? I feel like you mean something I'm not getting when you say it was petty that he said that. I will go try to find his statement from Monday, and I'll bet all will be clear. :auto:)

 

And, he went to Columbia and Harvard, she has an undergrad from one of the least selective state U's. That's fact.

[Osmosis Mom]

and yes, he was.

 

Nope. He was referred to as a Christian Fundamentalist.

 

Huge, huge difference, as a matter of fact and stereotyping.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Hindu terrorists.

 

Now I'm giggling again! :D

 

 

So we can't disagree with Osmosis Mom?

Oh my goodness, no, I don't mean that At. All. I merely pleaded for no reprisals or outrage. (That's code for... well... [whispers] You Know What.)

 

One thing I wanted to say by asking that the way I did was to point out to folks who do not know that Nadia is Muslim, and she heard these words through the ears of an American woman who lived in immediately post 9/11 America with her hair covered and all that that entailed for her.

 

I'm sticking my nose in again and acting all scoldy Church Lady. I'm sorry about that. I'm just standing with my friend to offer her a public display of support, is all. I don't always agree with her. (Though I'd be hard pressed to name an instance of strong disagreement, truth be told.) But I just wanted to mention where she was getting this viewpoint for folks who might not know.

 

Just... anyway.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

And, he went to Columbia and Harvard, she has an undergrad from one of the least selective state U's. That's fact.

 

But to be absolutely fair, the fact that she *didn't* go to those schools (nor indeed, I imagine, did she have any desire to) does not imply, in my mind at least, that she *couldn't* have gone or have qualified to have gone to those schools.

[LG Gone Wild]

Nope. He was referred to as a Christian Fundamentalist.

 

Huge, huge difference, as a matter of fact and stereotyping.

 

 

You mean, McVeigh, right? He was used to broadly stereotype Christians. I see no difference other than Christian Fundamentalist terrorist is clumsier to say.

[Kate CA]

Nope. He was referred to as a Christian Fundamentalist.

 

Huge, huge difference, as a matter of fact and stereotyping.

Are you talking about Timothy McVeigh of the Oklahoma City Bombings? I cannot find anyone with the name Tim McGovern.

 

I would argue he was not a Christian at all. At least according to Wiki:

 

His Religious beliefs

 

 

After his parents' divorce, McVeigh lived with his father; his sisters moved to Florida with their mother. He and his father were devout Roman Catholics who often attended daily Mass. In a recorded interview with Time Magazine[13] McVeigh professed his belief in "a God", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "never really picked it [back] up". The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter claiming to be an agnostic.[14] He was given the Catholic sacrament of Viaticum before his execution. McVeigh believed the universe was guided by natural law, energized by some universal higher power that showed each person right from wrong if they paid attention to what was going on inside them. He said, "Science is my religion."

 

Perhaps you were not talking about him - forgive me if that is the case. He *was* though, a domestic terrorist - there is no question about that.

[Zelda]

Remember that this was the Republican Convention and everything is meant to rally the base. Its like a pep rally, so, yeah, it gets a little contentious when the other team is referenced. That's the tradition and the Democratic convention went the same way...as it should have...that was their pep rally.

 

Also, saying "Islamic terrorist" isn't the same as saying Muslim = terrorist. I understand that there is a subset of the population who doesn't make a distinction but this wasn't addressed to them. I can see where this would be uncomfortable and it raised my eyebrows because it was a loaded phrase and I knew how it was going to play to non-conservatives but I also don't think it was out-of-line or prejudicial.

 

I think she did a fine job. She sure didn't look like the small town goober that the mainstream media has been trying to dish up for the last week. She proves that smart and small town are not opposites. She speaks to those of us from oft maligned parts of the country who are sick to death of the coastal elitism we deal with on a daily basis.

[Mom to Aly]

I didn't see every speech but I did see Guilani's and Palin's. I didn't witness any racism or overt/covert appeals to christians only. My perspective is not muslim but is it any of less value than Osmosis Mom's? As if I would belong to a racist party. Republicanism does not equal racism. Just ask Darrell Issa.

 

"Islamic terrorists" is a description of the perpetrators, not a some kind of racist torrent. These terrorists describes themselves as devout Muslims. To mention what they are is not racist nor is it an attack on Osmosis Mom or other Muslims. If the terrorists were Hindu, speeches would be made referring to Hindu terrorists.

 

 

I think the point is, we are living in a country where the majority of people are Christian, and those Christians do consider this a Christian country, as is pointed out to me, a non-Christian, all the time, even though it is not--this country was founded on religious freedom, and is a free country, not a Christian country.

 

9-11 did horrendous things to the image of Muslims in this country. I have friends who are Muslim in NY, and I knew one family that had to move out of their house and return to Pakistan because their son was beaten, almost to death, and their house set fire twice. That was the worst I knew of, but there was plenty more, people who had their tires slashed, one friend who had a bottle broken over his head, a friend who is Indian who had her baby's head spat upon in a grocery store because someone thought they were Muslim, and much more. All because of a few nuts who did a horrendous act in the name of a religion they didn't get close to adhering to. Think of all the nuts who have done things in the name of Christianity--the people who have killed drs. who perform abortions, or bombed abortion clinics, for example, or gay bashers, although there is so much more. Are you proud when they say they did that in the name of Christianity? And do you consider them "real" Christians, just because they proclaim to be?

 

The fact that they said "Islamic terrorists" and not "terrorists" showed plenty of prejudice tonight, but they were doing it with a hidden agenda; they were trying to influence the people they are hoping will believe Obama is Muslim, and trying to link him to those horrible terrorists. You, yourself, were showing your own Christian bias when you mentioned Hindus as an example at the end of your post. If it had been Christians in your mind, you would have said "terrorists", I'm sure, not "Christian terrorists", just as in the news, they never say "Christian terrorists" but "terrorists" when it is someone Christian.

[Osmosis Mom]

You mean, McVeigh, right? He was used to broadly stereotype Christians. I see no difference other than Christian Fundamentalist terrorist is clumsier to say.

 

Yes, sorry that I got his name wrong (I knew there was something not right). I do not believe he was referred to as a Christian Fund. Terrorist. As you might notice then there is a huge tendency to reserve the word "terrorist" for what shall we say "Islamists" and call everyone else fundamentalists. At least, that has been the trend in recent years, helping underscore the meaning of the words War on Terrorism (as targeting who? Christian Iraqis??).

 

Religion is certainly involved. I am sure if we were talking face to face this would be a lot less impersonal and you'd be able to see what I mean, from my kind of viewpoint. And my whole point was that it appeared that Gioliani (wrong spelling, but I am too tired) just wanted to re-wake the original fear and scare of 9-11 and have people recall the images and emotions. So let's not move forward, but always recall those emotions and what they initially associated to us.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

You mean, McVeigh, right? He was used to broadly stereotype Christians. I see no difference other than Christian Fundamentalist terrorist is clumsier to say.

 

REALLY? Golly. I do not remember that. Off for more digging. :auto: (Psst: I would love a link, ANY link to an article that mentioned Christian terrorists during that time if you find one before I do.)

 

But to be fair, I don't remember major political candidates at the state or local or national level speaking out against the "Christian terrorists." Even during abortion clinic bombings, the bombers were "radicals" or "fringe" or "militant factions."

[LG Gone Wild]

I merely pleaded for no reprisals or outrage. (That's code for... well... [whispers] You Know What.)

 

One thing I wanted to say by asking that the way I did was to point out to folks who do not know that Nadia is Muslim, and she heard these words through the ears of an American woman who lived in immediately post 9/11 America with her hair covered and all that that entailed for her. .

 

 

I am not into that either. But you know, sometimes outrage is called for. If my race or religion was linked with terrorism or some such evil (and it has), I would be frustrated and embarassed (for my race/religion) but I wouldn't call it racism or prejudice or bigotry. As you say, it just is.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

...that was their pep rally.

 

 

 

True, that.

 

I disagree with other parts of your posts, but this part is worth saying :iagree: to.

 

I think the mistake for *this* particular time was that they are trying to appeal to undecided moderates in order to clinch the election. And by using this approach (shore up the base), they are alienating that segment. With the Palin pick, the base shoring was accomplished, I think. They could have, IMO, reached out to moderates just a tiny bit more.

 

They may have gotten what they wanted, but I'm not sure they want what they got. (Not speaking of Palin here, speaking of the tone of the RNC.)

[Osmosis Mom]

I am not into that either. But you know, sometimes outrage is called for. If my race or religion was linked with terrorism or some such evil (and it has), I would be frustrated and embarassed (for my race/religion) but I wouldn't call it racism or prejudice or bigotry. As you say, it just is.

 

My WHOLE point is that those people were NOT representatives of my religion or of that of 1 billion other people. I am sorry if you think I should feel that way, but that's exactly my point.

 

People who are God-fearing do not make one of the biggest sins ever and kill other humans plus commit suicide. Sorry, but that is not Islam and those people were not living Islamic lives before the event even(the leaders Attar et al).

[Elaine]

I found her extremely catty. I was shocked at how she attacked Obama, and found it completely inappropriate--but she couldn't really talk about issues she has no experience with, I suppose. So, she was instead petty and inaccurate--Obama wants to FORFEIT the war in Iraq? Please!

 

I was hoping she would go out there and be a wonderful representative of women, and I was horrible disappointed. First, she wasn't the writer of the speech, as she had stated over days. Second, she showed herself to be what she seemed to be at first--a small town woman, but, what I didn't expect, a small minded woman.

 

 

Well, calling someone small-minded because you don't like thier brand of politics, that seems...well...catty.

[Crissy]

Well, calling someone small-minded because you don't like thier brand of politics, that seems...well...catty.

 

 

I see your point.

 

 

 

;)

[Plucky]

True, that.

 

I disagree with other parts of your posts, but this part is worth saying :iagree: to.

 

I think the mistake for *this* particular time was that they are trying to appeal to undecided moderates in order to clinch the election. And by using this approach (shore up the base), they are alienating that segment. With the Palin pick, the base shoring was accomplished, I think. They could have, IMO, reached out to moderates just a tiny bit more.

 

They may have gotten what they wanted, but I'm not sure they want what they got. (Not speaking of Palin here, speaking of the tone of the RNC.)

 

Oh, I don't know. I'm a moderate and I am pretty darn happy with how things have been presented. I'm decidedly not voting Obama. Palin has done nothing but make me want to vote Republican for the first time in a long time.

[sdWTMer]

Yeah she did! WooHoo! Loved it completely!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I am not into that either. But you know, sometimes outrage is called for. If my race or religion was linked with terrorism or some such evil (and it has), I would be frustrated and embarassed (for my race/religion) but I wouldn't call it racism or prejudice or bigotry. As you say, it just is.

 

Why would we be outraged, though, at Nadia's POV as a Muslim woman living the life every day, or her perspective on what Islam is or isn't? I don't see any reason for outrage, but I (and you) have been on this board to know that reprisal and vitriolic outrage can be unleashed about sunscreen. And math curricula. And for starting threads telling who one is voting for.

 

Anyway, as I meant to say, I'm sorry for my "play nice, children" tone. But just like the wise post to be gentle coming out of our corners, I thought I'd give it a try even though I know I'm not anybody here's mom. :glare:

[JudyJudyJudy]

:grouphug: So sorry to you and all the Muslims who have to suffer through the nonsense they cause with things like this. I'm sure you know a big reason for this is all the misinformation the Republicans are trying to spread that Obama is Muslim, although I also know that doesn't help.

 

And, to those who think this is not typical of Giuliani--I think this is completely typical of him. As a native New Yorker, I have heard his prejudiced comments for years, seen him choose to upgrade parts of NY so that the rich would have places for themselves, while pushing the poor farther out--cleaning up parts of Manhattan, while pushing vermin, etc, into Harlem and the Bronx, etc. Don't ask the rich in NY, ask the poor, the minorities about Giuliani, and you will see what he has really done, and how he really is.

Absolutely. (My mother-in-law is a Puerto Rican living in the Bronx.)

[Zelda]

I tend to be more moderate so I'm not 100% comfortable with everything that was said but then...no one is ever going to appeal to me completely. I try to find the balance between what I want and what I can live with...I think that has to be what most true moderates are forced to do.

 

I think we're just dealing with a classic election where in the end its going to boil down to ideology. I just don't think there are scads of undecided moderates out there. Some, sure, but not enough to sway it. The important thing is going to be to get your base to the polls to actually vote because I don't think there's going to be a lot of splitting the middle this go-round. People know how they're voting for the most part. Both sides are just trying to get people fired up enough to actually vote.

[JudyJudyJudy]

"Islamic terrorists" is a description of the perpetrators, not a some kind of racist torrent. These terrorists describes themselves as devout Muslims. To mention what they are is not racist nor is it an attack on Osmosis Mom or other Muslims. If the terrorists were Hindu, speeches would be made referring to Hindu terrorists.

Honest question here: Would you be okay with others referring to the people who bomb abortion clinics and gay night clubs as "Christian terrorists"? After all, they describe themselves as devout Christians.

[LG Gone Wild]

I

 

9-11 did horrendous things to the image of Muslims in this country.

 

Yes, it did but whose fault was that?

 

 

All because of a few nuts who did a horrendous act in the name of a religion they didn't get close to adhering to. Think of all the nuts who have done things in the name of Christianity--the people who have killed drs. who perform abortions, or bombed abortion clinics, for example, or gay bashers, although there is so much more. Are you proud when they say they did that in the name of Christianity? And do you consider them "real" Christians, just because they proclaim to be?

 

Do you want an honest answer or I shall I just let you, unjustly, put me in an ugly stereotype even though you have no actual proof of what I am?

 

The fact that they said "Islamic terrorists" and not "terrorists" showed plenty of prejudice tonight, but they were doing it with a hidden agenda; they were trying to influence the people they are hoping will believe Obama is Muslim, and trying to link him to those horrible terrorists.

 

Did anyone say Obama is a Muslim tonight? That's just a silly thing for you to post. Two words, Jeremiah Wright.

 

You, yourself, were showing your own Christian bias when you mentioned Hindus as an example at the end of your post. If it had been Christians in your mind, you would have said "terrorists", I'm sure, not "Christian terrorists", just as in the news, they never say "Christian terrorists" but "terrorists" when it is someone Christian.

 

Well, I don't follow you there but you have shown your bias against Christians by harping on it. FWIW, I am not harping on Muslims for being muslim. I disagree with idea of republicans are racists.

:tongue_smilie:

[JudyJudyJudy]

Nope. He was referred to as a Christian Fundamentalist.

 

Huge, huge difference, as a matter of fact and stereotyping.

I see that I was late with my other question, but you are absolutely correct.

[Kate CA]

Yes, sorry that I got his name wrong (I knew there was something not right). I do not believe he was referred to as a Christian Fund. Terrorist. As you might notice then there is a huge tendency to reserve the word "terrorist" for what shall we say "Islamists" and call everyone else fundamentalists. At least, that has been the trend in recent years, helping underscore the meaning of the words War on Terrorism (as targeting who? Christian Iraqis??).

 

 

I am sorry, but I disagree here. This book title addresses McVeigh as an American Terrorist. There are other books - Confronting Fear for example - that lists him as a terrorist among other really big names like Osama. He is equal to monsters not only on book titles, but in every American mind. He *was* an American Terrorist.

 

I am *not* saying your concerns are not valid. I cannot imagine, frankly, what it would have been like to be in your shoes post 9-11. I am not one who believes that most Muslims are radical. There are those that claim that faith (as there are those that claim Christianity) that are radical and they have proven that radical desire to kill over and over to the detriment of many Americans. I don't think that can be overlooked in this country and I don't think it is wise to forget the horror of 9-11. We have to look to the safety of our people--you included.

 

You wrote in another post:

 

My WHOLE point is that those people were NOT representatives of my religion or of that of 1 billion other people. I am sorry if you think I should feel that way, but that's exactly my point.

 

People who are God-fearing do not make one of the biggest sins ever and kill other humans plus commit suicide. Sorry, but that is not Islam and those people were not living Islamic lives before the event even(the leaders Attar et al).

 

Just as those of us who claim Christ would be saying, that man (McVeigh) is not a Christian - or any other maniac who did horrible things in the name of Christ. *But* people still label them Christian - just as you did above. He was no more Christian than you feel Osama (et all) are Muslims. But they claim that faith. Do you see my point? People use the term "Islamic" because they call themselves that term.

[LG Gone Wild]

My WHOLE point is that those people were NOT representatives of my religion or of that of 1 billion other people. I am sorry if you think I should feel that way, but that's exactly my point.

 

 

 

I didn't suggest that at all. You aren't the only one to shoulder the burden of sins committed by others.

 

Islamic terrorists isn't any more bigoted a description than identifying priests who molest children as Catholic priests.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I didn't suggest that at all. You aren't the only one to shoulder the burden of sins committed by others.

 

Islamic terrorists isn't any more bigoted a description than identifying priests who molest children as Catholic priests.

"Catholic terrorists" or "Catholic molesters" would be more accurate comparisons. It doesn't have a nice ring, does it?

[sarahli]

My WHOLE point is that those people were NOT representatives of my religion or of that of 1 billion other people. I am sorry if you think I should feel that way, but that's exactly my point.

 

People who are God-fearing do not make one of the biggest sins ever and kill other humans plus commit suicide. Sorry, but that is not Islam and those people were not living Islamic lives before the event even(the leaders Attar et al).

 

She is a member of the Assembly of God church, and believes that the Iraq war is "God's will" and that a gas pipeline in Alaska is also God's will. Here's her speech at the church, part 1.

 

 

I don't share her views.

[LG Gone Wild]

Why would we be outraged, though, at Nadia's POV as a Muslim woman living the life every day, or her perspective on what Islam is or isn't? I don't see any reason for outrage, but I (and you) have been on this board to know that reprisal and vitriolic outrage can be unleashed about sunscreen. And math curricula. And for starting threads telling who one is voting for.

 

Anyway, as I meant to say, I'm sorry for my "play nice, children" tone. But just like the wise post to be gentle coming out of our corners, I thought I'd give it a try even though I know I'm not anybody here's mom. :glare:

 

 

I take issue my party being stereotyped as racist. I am not OUTRAGED but a POV can lead to justified outrage.

 

No need to apologize. I just didn't think anyone should get a free pass because they belong to different demographic than the majority here.

[Jenne]

I also had a problem with the reference to Islamic terrorists. The qualifier "Islamic" is unfair and unnecessary and it is designed to play on some people's fears. It also puts real people in danger. (I ranted to DH about it when Giuliani made the reference.)

 

However, I did like Palin's speech-- although I know it wasn't written by her, it seemed to "fit" her voice. I also liked the homemade signs in the convention hall. That was refreshing.

 

I'm an undecided... and I will probably remain that way for a while.

[LG Gone Wild]

"Catholic terrorists" or "Catholic molesters" would be more accurate comparisons. It doesn't have a nice ring, does it?

 

because it's the same theme.

 

IRA were/are Catholic terrorists and named as such. As for your earlier example, aren't they called that anyway?

[Amy in Orlando]

I also had a problem with the reference to Islamic terrorists. The word "Islamic" is unfair and unnecessary and it is designed to play on some people's fears. It also puts real people in danger. (I ranted to DH about it when Giuliani made the reference.)

 

However, I did like Palin's speech-- although I know it wasn't written by her, it seemed to "fit" her voice. I also liked the homemade signs in the convention hall. That was refreshing.

 

I'm an undecided... and I will probably remain that way for a while.

 

I'm going to regret this, but I think that NOT referencing "Islamic" with the word terrorist (in context with the speech) is misleading. I believe any thinking person understands that these terrorists are NOT representative of their said religion. (And, I"m ok with people calling Timothy McVeigh or abortion-clinic-bombers Christian terrorists because that's what they were/are)

 

Our pediatrician is Muslim and I consider her to be a true mentor to me over the past 15 years - I adore her and value her advice above almost everyone I know. I have two dear friends who are Muslim and they're among the first people I call for advice or comfort or just to talk. To me and my family, those people are representative of the true Islam.

 

I think most people can make distinctions like this for themselves.

[JudyJudyJudy]

because it's the same theme.

 

IRA were/are Catholic terrorists and named as such. As for your earlier example, aren't they called that anyway?

Do you mean those who bombed the abortion clinics and gay night clubs being called "Christian terrorists"? If that's what you mean, I'm certainly not aware of that being used by the mainstream, and I lived right across the street from one of the bombings.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm going to regret this, but I think that NOT referencing "Islamic" with the word terrorist (in context with the speech) is misleading. I believe any thinking person understands that these terrorists are NOT representative of their said religion.

I disagree. In fact, I believe some people use the term intentionally to confuse people. After all, since "Muslims" flew planes into our buildings, then that meant all Muslims were after us, and, therefore, that gave us an excuse to go into Iraq. I know people who are still convinced that Iraq attacked us on 9/11.

[Amy in Orlando]

I disagree. In fact, I believe some people use the term intentionally to confuse people. After all, since "Muslims" flew planes into our buildings, then that meant all Muslims were after us, and, therefore, that gave us an excuse to go into Iraq. I know people who are still convinced that Iraq attacked us on 9/11.

 

I need to go to bed, but I can't not answer this.

 

I don't think people are dumb enough (and I mean most people - there are always going to be dumb/ignorant people) to believe that ALL Muslims are terrorists.

 

I think some of it depends on where you live and how much contact you have with "true" Muslims. But still, I don't believe that people cannot distinguish between the radical extreme end of Islam and the mainstream population of Islam. The same holds true for any extreme of any religion.

[RenayofRohan]

Sarah Palin's speech was awesome ~ every word of it. She rocks. :hurray:

 

Giuliani was incredible.

 

Huckabee made me proud. :patriot:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I'm going to regret this, but I think that NOT referencing "Islamic" with the word terrorist (in context with the speech) is misleading. I believe any thinking person understands that these terrorists are NOT representative of their said religion. (And, I"m ok with people calling Timothy McVeigh or abortion-clinic-bombers Christian terrorists because that's what they were/are)

 

Our pediatrician is Muslim and I consider her to be a true mentor to me over the past 15 years - I adore her and value her advice above almost everyone I know. I have two dear friends who are Muslim and they're among the first people I call for advice or comfort or just to talk. To me and my family, those people are representative of the true Islam.

 

I think most people can make distinctions like this for themselves.

 

 

Well, but, think of Ireland. I don't think I would ever say "Catholic terrorists" or "Protestant terrorists" there unless I meant to insult or make a very pointed personal point. I would say, back in the day, "IRA," or "Sein Fein" (sp?) or "loyalist paramilitary" or "Ulster Defence Association" or "Protestant militant extremists."

 

To say "Protestant terrorist" would be useful if I were Catholic and wanted to politically malign Ian Paisley, true. However, peaceful Protestants might be to say the very least annoyed -- and rightly so, IMO -- with me.

[Amy in Orlando]

Well, but, think of Ireland. I don't think I would ever say "Catholic terrorists" or "Protestant terrorists" there unless I meant to insult or make a very pointed personal point. I would say, back in the day, "IRA," or "Sein Fein" (sp?) or "loyalist paramilitary" or "Ulster Defence Association" or "Protestant militant extremists."

 

To say "Protestant terrorist" would be useful if I were Catholic and wanted to politically malign Ian Paisley, true. However, peaceful Protestants might be to say the very least annoyed -- and rightly so, IMO -- with me.

 

Gah - I really need to go to bed. I think back in the IRA days it would have been a clarification to say "Protestant" or "Catholic" to know who was doing what the time. I'd have added the word "extreme" to either side to clarify that they were not mainstream.

 

I think that's what we're all talking about - the EXTREME, not the norm.

[LG Gone Wild]

I disagree. In fact, I believe some people use the term intentionally to confuse people. After all, since "Muslims" flew planes into our buildings, then that meant all Muslims were after us, and, therefore, that gave us an excuse to go into Iraq. I know people who are still convinced that Iraq attacked us on 9/11.

 

You have muslim in quotes. Why? It wasn't Green Peace. If it were, we would be talking about eco terrorists, not "eco" terrorists. It's not "pro-lifers" or "anti-abortionists" bombing clinics, its pro-lifers or anti-abortionists bombing clinics. If the terrorist label isn't outrightly used, the stereotype is no less damaging.

 

That other part of your post. You should probably start a different thread for that.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

She is a member of the Assembly of God church, and believes that the Iraq war is "God's will" and that a gas pipeline in Alaska is also God's will. Here's her speech at the church, part 1.

 

 

I don't share her views.

 

 

Wait, no. Her pastor may have preached this. But we cannot ascribe his rhetoric (which may have been used to make a broader point and have a context we are not privy to) to Palin.

 

Just because I sit in a garage does not make me a car.

 

Otherwise, Obama believes every word that came from Jeremiah Wright's mouth. When she says she believes this, or is quoted reputably to have said this with source verification and more than one witness, I will believe she believes it. Until then, I will agree only that her pastor believes it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I need to go to bed, but I can't not answer this.

 

I don't think people are dumb enough (and I mean most people - there are always going to be dumb/ignorant people) to believe that ALL Muslims are terrorists.

 

I think some of it depends on where you live and how much contact you have with "true" Muslims. But still, I don't believe that people cannot distinguish between the radical extreme end of Islam and the mainstream population of Islam. The same holds true for any extreme of any religion.

Well, since I know such people, I'll have to continue to disagree with you. I also get email forwards about such things. Perhaps it partly has to do with the bold part above since I'm in an area with well over 200 churches, all Christian. However, I've also heard talk show hosts speak negatively of the entire group and make such comments as the "good Muslims" are the ones who do such things.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Wait, no. Her pastor may have preached this. But we cannot ascribe his rhetoric (which may have been used to make a broader point and have a context we are not privy to) to Palin.

 

You're incorrect about this. Keep watching the video. After the introduction by the man in the beginning, she gives a speech in which she makes such comments and basically keeps telling people to pray for her politics to be done.

[LG Gone Wild]

 

Just because I sit in a garage does not make me a car.

 

 

 

LOL! I love it!

[Amy in Orlando]

Well, since I know such people, I'll have to continue to disagree with you. I also get email forwards about such things. Perhaps it partly has to do with the bold part above since I'm in an area with well over 200 churches, all Christian. However, I've also heard talk show hosts speak negatively of the entire group and make such comments as the "good Muslims" are the ones who do such things.

 

JJJ - (love your screen name - we call my favorite aunt Judy Judy Judy) I guess we'll have to disagree on this. I don't think we're all that far apart - can you come for lunch tomorrow or any day? I'll make ummm... mac and cheese or something. If you come for happy hour, we'll feed you a nice dinner, dh is the cook, not me.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

You have muslim in quotes. Why? It wasn't Green Peace. If it were, we would be talking about eco terrorists, not "eco" terrorists. It's not "pro-lifers" or "anti-abortionists" bombing clinics, its pro-lifers or anti-abortionists bombing clinics. If the terrorist label isn't outrightly used, the stereotype is no less damaging.

 

That other part of your post. You should probably start a different thread for that.

 

You think a true Christian would do what Eric Rudolph did? I would say that he is a "Christian" who bombed and murdered and was at large for lo those many months were I to write about it.

 

Rudolph sure wasn't Greenpeace, that's for sure. But though he names the name of Jesus to justify his actions, in my book he sure isn't any kind of Christian, either.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Sarahli posted the link to the first part of the video. Here is part 2 (more was said in part 1, so if you only watch one part, watch it):

 

 

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Gah - I really need to go to bed. I think back in the IRA days it would have been a clarification to say "Protestant" or "Catholic" to know who was doing what the time. I'd have added the word "extreme" to either side to clarify that they were not mainstream.

 

I think that's what we're all talking about - the EXTREME, not the norm.

 

Right. And "the Islamic man" is an identifier. But "the Islamic terrorist" is pejorative, more or less so depending on the context in which it is used. And in this context, the use was very pointed. ETA: In my opinion. Though I'm not sure whose else opinion it would be, since I wrote it. LOL!

 

ETA again: Agreeing with just what you said here in my post at the top of the thread there.