Halcyon Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Hi- My son is in his third week of this class. He loves it. Loves the pace, loves the class, loves the challenge. But. The amount of work is...wow...a lot. Homework questions, Alcumus, the book itself, reading ahead...he is struggling to keep up. The pace is blistering. In addition, he is having trouble "starting" some of the questions--meaning, if DH gives him a nudge in the right direction, he's off and running. I think this is a maturity thing, as well as a bit of lack of confidence. The question is: "Should we drop the class?" We have until this Tuesday to make the decision. He would definitely continue with the book and Alcumus, but at a slower pace. But he adores the online class component--the speed, the challenge, the other kids. So I just can't decide what to do. Him? He wants to stay in the class. DH suggested he not do ALL the questions in the book, but rather a sample of them, then move on to the homework and the Alcumus which are required. But his concern is that in doing that, he'll miss out on some important concepts and they won't "stick". We, the parents, are both on the fence about what to do. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (Dd didn't take that particular class but others.) Which book problems is he doing? The end-of-section problems? The chapter review problems? The challenge problems? Honestly, there is no way he'd be able to every single book problem plus the problem set plus the assigned Alcumus problems! Not if he has anything else to do! When dd took geometry (in seventh grade) she worked her way through the book sections and did those problems, just to check her understanding. Then she worked on the problem set and Alcumus assignment. (Sometimes she'd do all the problems for a certain topic from the book, problem set, and Alcumus, and then she'd move to the next topic. It just depended on how she felt that week.) When she'd get stuck with a doozie of a problem, she'd return to the book and work through review or challenge problems that looked like they could offer a hint for the hard problem. I'd be inclined to let ds stick with the class. He enjoys it and the challenge, right? He'll figure out which and how many problems he needs to do :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4ofus Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 My son isn't doing that class, & I haven't seen that book, so take this with a grain of salt :). He is in Prealgebra 2. I have no idea if the C&P book is structured similarly. He reads the section(s), does the teaching problems within the text & only does the problems at the end of the section that are marked as contest problems of some sort. (Mathcounts), (AMC), (MOEMS), etc. Sometimes that is only 1 or 2 problems, sometimes it is 5 or 6. This was just a random way of making sure he has a few problems to flex his understanding of the material. A few sections have no contest-labeled problems & I just suggest he pick 2 or 3 - not the easiest ones, please ;). Then, of course, he also does the online homework problems & alcumus. At the beginning I was encouraging him to work through the review sections at the end of each chapter even though it was passed over in the class. We found out pretty quickly that there was simply not enough time for that with the other things we want to learn as well. I figure as he progresses through the material he will work out what problems he needs for reinforcement. I hope. 3 weeks seems like a long grace period to trial...and it really is...but it still is well within the stage of "what the heck?!?!" Haha. He really needs to settle into the groove & it might take longer. If it's Intro to C&P I think it is a relatively short class. If he wants to try to stick it out I would not drop the class. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 If he loves it and is learning, I can't imagine dropping it. Can you reduce some things in the rest of his schedule to make room for it? I agree with Luckymama about the book problems. My ds is doing Precalc right now at AOPS. He does the problems in the text of each section (what I think of as "reading the textbook", but working the problems himself before reading their solutions). He does NOT do any exercises at the end of the section or any problems or challenge problems at the end of the chapter. My understanding is that the online homework replaces those problems. It takes him at least 8 hours a week just to do the reading and the online homework and attend the class. If you are worried about retention and want him to do the book exercises as well, what about saving them for later after the class is done? He could go back and do selected problems as review at his own pace. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 That was my ds's first AoPS class. It made him fall in love with AoPS. I would let your Ds stay in the class. It will help him learn how to work with their flow and how to handle the load appropriately. Fwiw, that is the pace of all of their classes. They do cover the material at a fast pace. If pace is the issue, he might not want to stick with the online classes long-term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 (Dd didn't take that particular class but others.) Which book problems is he doing? The end-of-section problems? The chapter review problems? The challenge problems? Honestly, there is no way he'd be able to every single book problem plus the problem set plus the assigned Alcumus problems! Not if he has anything else to do! When dd took geometry (in seventh grade) she worked her way through the book sections and did those problems, just to check her understanding. Then she worked on the problem set and Alcumus assignment. (Sometimes she'd do all the problems for a certain topic from the book, problem set, and Alcumus, and then she'd move to the next topic. It just depended on how she felt that week.) When she'd get stuck with a doozie of a problem, she'd return to the book and work through review or challenge problems that looked like they could offer a hint for the hard problem. I'd be inclined to let ds stick with the class. He enjoys it and the challenge, right? He'll figure out which and how many problems he needs to do :) He has been doing ALL the problems in the book. And all the Alcumus. And the homework questions. :mellow: We will start having him do just the "in text" problems and see what happens. Thank you!! And re the ALcumus--is that graded based on number correct, or just DOING the ALcumus (and let's say he gets 60 or 70% correct) enough? He seems to be hesitating tremendously to actually INPUT his answer for fear of getting it wrong. I know he needs to get over that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 And re the ALcumus--is that graded based on number correct, or just DOING the ALcumus (and let's say he gets 60 or 70% correct) enough? He seems to be hesitating tremendously to actually INPUT his answer for fear of getting it wrong. I know he needs to get over that. Alcumus is adaptive. Every problem has a level of difficulty, up to 25. If he should get a problem wrong, the next problem (for that topic) will be at a lower level of difficulty. He'll keep answering questions until he passes (green on the progress bar) and then masters (blue on the progress bar) the topic. It might be four problems, it might be 20 problems----it just depends on the level of difficulty. He should just answer! Everyone answers incorrectly! We learn through our mistakes :) (make sure he reads through the solutions!) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 If he gets the Alcumus questions wrong, he will just be given more questions to get right. I *think* he just needs to turn the bar green (or blue). The bar will "go down" when he gets questions wrong, but then it's just a matter of doing more questions. Getting questions wrong is to be expected. The more important thing is to look at the solution when he gets one wrong in order to learn. I honestly don't know whether they look at the percentage in Alcumus for a letter grade at the end of the course. My understanding was that they look at the colors of the bars plus the written answers to the homework. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Alcumus is adaptive. Every problem has a level of difficulty, up to 25. If he should get a problem wrong, the next problem (for that topic) will be at a lower level of difficulty. He'll keep answering questions until he passes (green on the progress bar) and then masters (blue on the progress bar) the topic. It might be four problems, it might be 20 problems----it just depends on the level of difficulty. He should just answer! Everyone answers incorrectly! We learn through our mistakes :) (make sure he reads through the solutions!) This is incredibly helpful--we had no idea that Alcumus was adaptive, or that the number of problems vary according to their difficulty. This transparency will make it much more doable for my son. Thank you! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 One more question--my son didn't realize (or forgot) to do Alcumus the first week--can he go back and do those problems for credit? or is it "once you forget, there's no going back" type thing. Yes, he will go back eventually just for his own understanding, but in terms of getting credit, does it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 He can still do the Alcumus. He can also do any of the other homework after the due date with the exception of the written-response question. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilaclady Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thank you Halcyon for this thread. It has helped me understand the AOPS classes a bit more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 jsut an update for anyone who is interested. we decided not to drop the class. Okay, HE decided not to drop. I don't think he ever considered dropping it, in fact. I was the one who was (is) concerned. It's been challenging, and he needs to catch up with alcumus, but it's better now in terms of "getting stuff" than it was in the beginning. The last weeks' written problem was really hard, and I have to accept that sometimes he just wont get it, and that's okay. Weird thing is, this is all me. He's fine with it--okay, not FINE, but not discouraged. I think I have something to learn from him. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilaclady Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Good. Wishing him the very best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wordsworth Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hi - this is my first post here. :) DS13 is taking that same class right now. I signed him up because he's been working through Intro to Algebra on his own, has been ahead of his fellow students in our homeschool Mathcounts club (which is not a powerhouse math team, but he enjoys it), but didn't do very well at our chapter Mathcounts competition. I explained to him that it is not MY goal for him to be a super-awesome Mathcounts champion, but if he wants to see what it is like to work as hard as lots of the really impressive math contestants do, an online AOPS class would be a good way to do so. It's been rough going! I am seeing that this is going to be a class we take together so that I can help him. I don't mind doing so, although I wish I had allowed for that time in my already overstuffed calendar, because it's enjoyable and I can also use this to help our Mathcounts kids down the road. I will explain to him that he doesn't need to get discouraged if it's taking him a while to move out of the "red zone" in a particular topic on Alcumus. I think he has the mentality that all the other kids in the class are superstars or something. He's in the Wednesday night class - if they are in the same class (or maybe even if they aren't?) and your son wants a study buddy to work with, I guess they could send friend requests to one another on AOPS. Not really clear how that works. You can message me if you would be interested in having them "meet" one another, I think I read that AOPS would assign a grade if I asked them to do so - not sure if I would want to do that or not. It might even be too late this time! On the one hand, I would be curious to see what grade he would earn at the end of this. On the other hand, since this is really an elective for him and I want to boost his confidence, the grade thing might end up backfiring. He's in seventh grade and so we don't really need a grade for a transcript but I'm feeling more and more like I have to figure out what we're doing about grades, etc., *very soon* so that I won't be panicked about high school. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hey! my son would love a study buddy! And yes! it's been hard, and my son also has the sense that the other kids are whizzing through, but i don't think thats the case. it takes him a while to get through alcumus too, and yes, we work together, so please, tell your son he's not alone. Even my very mathy dh has trouble on some of them! we spend about 2 hours a day on it, and even then we are behind LOL. my son is in the wednesday night class too--pm me your son's user name and i will do the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wordsworth Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Last night, after spending two hours learning to count :crying: , I came up with what I would consider a "Best Week Structure" for these AOPS online classes. This does not, of course, mean that our current week resembles this in any way! Right now we're always scrambling and are lucky to have read the chapter before class. So, ideally: Tuesday/Wednesday (Day before class and day of class): Read the chapter that will be discussed in class and work at least some problems. Thursday (Day after class): Work on Alcumus for that week's stuff. Friday: Work on Alcumus and start on Challenge Problems. Saturday/Monday: Finish challenge problems, work on Alcumus as needed. The writing problem each week has been very challenging! But I love the detailed feedback that they provide on each answer. Definitely have to bring your "A" game to these problems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yes, the writing problems are tough. RIght now, our plan is to do a bit every day of everything, so a bit of ALcumus, then a couple problems from the homework, then a bit of reading. We managed to finish the first 4 problems of the Homework today, so he is happy. And we are at one of three green bars for Alcumus. I think this week he has 2 chapters to read, am I right? :crying: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mukmuk Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Glad things are working out, Halcyon! It's all about building up knowledge and stamina steadily. You son sounds awesome! Hang in there! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Just another update for those of you who are on the fence about whether your child should take this class: my son took his 3rd class tonight on his own as DH is travelling, and for the first time, he was "chosen" multiple times by the teacher to have his answer shown to the class. He was very pleased, and said he had little trouble keeping up. I am happy for him, mostly because he is sticking with it. :) Here's to hoping he continues to enjoy it! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozwo Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 That is great and sweet fruits of labor seem to be paying off. My son is also taking that class but on Fridays and we will have our third class next week. I know third week is tough given the two chapters and it is great that your son was chosen multiple times. Is he able to finish all the homework problems himself or needs help from the class chat room etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 He does the homework with assistance from me or my husband when he needs it. Sometimes it's just a matter of helping him "get started", kwim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Final update on my son and his first AoPS class. He finishes the class this evening, and we are taking him out for dinner to celebrate completion (sushi! yay!) It was arguably the hardest class he's ever taken, excepting PERHAPS Lone Pine Latin in 6th grade. It required gobs of work (2 hours a day) and when we went to Disney in the middle for a week, he really got behind and had to work very hard to catch up. It showed ME (and him, but mostly me) how capable he really is when put to the test. In the beginning, we would sit with him, coach him, guide him. But at the end, when he said he couldn't do it, and he felt frustrated and upset, I would say "Yes, you can. Try again." and gosh darn it if he didn't do it, most of the time, and correctly. The class has been a huge confidence booster for him, and also a window into how other gifted kids work. In the beginning, he was rarely chosen in class, struggled with the Writing Problems and felt quite lost (as you can see from my above posts). But by about 2/3rds of the way through, he was working mostly on his own, posting questions as needed in the forums, and finishing problems with only occasional guidance from my husband. Well, they did work together on many of the Writing Problems until the end, but for DS, he loves it when he and his dad sit together and struggle together LOL. My DH says he did the brunt of the work, and he simply supported him. He is requesting a grade, and is hoping that he did enough to earn an A, but I told him either way, I am very proud of him for sticking with it. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 My dd is working through the book (not the online class, that's too fast-paced for us), and she's currently wrapping up the chapter on Pascal's triangle. Whoa, Nelly, that's tough one: so many proofs! Congratulations to your ds! It's a dense book. My dd will probably be working on it through the summer still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wordsworth Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Halcyon - I wonder if we were at Disney World the same week, haha. I made my son take his laptop thinking he could still do the class that week, because I am a fool who does not understand Disney World or something. (Needless to say, we were too busy for class!) We sort of limped across the finish line with this one. Lots going on right now and I didn't stay on top of him as well as I should have. I do plan to enroll him in Geometry in the fall because that should be easier for me to help him with and he'll be used to the pace of the online classes. I think he's definitely glad he did the class and feels some pride in having survived, but I will not be asking for a grade this time around! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ha! we brought our laptop too, and one night DS spent like 3 hours working and it was misery for him. He was so tired from walking around Disney all day--he did manage to complete the writing problem but it was painful. We decided to do Algebra 2 at Wilson Hill rather than at AoPS--I tghink they do Alg 2 double time and he is taking a bunch of other hard courses, so.....and I heard their geometry is one of the hardest classes they offer, so best of luck to your son!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wordsworth Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hmmm - maybe we won't do Geometry yet, then. I'm kind of on the fence. This is his last year for Mathcounts and I would love for him to be really well-prepared this time around, even though our chapter is so competitive that it is unlikely he would be able to make it to the next level even if we do 80 hours of math a day for the rest of our lives...not that I'm being dramatic or anything. I'll check out Wilson Hill, though, as well. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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