Argggh! Dd and her timeline...

[Lolly]

Just venting...

 

So, dd decided to add a major last year. Okay. No problem. One extra year she is told. Sounds good. Business and Japanese sound like they would make her very employable. So, this year she goes in for advisingin the fall...two extra years they tell her. I balked a little. But, it makes a little sense. Basically two years of advanced classes for each major/minor. NOW, she is having advising for spring semester and they tell her it will be three additional years. She forgot to put in twenty something hours of electives for her second major???? They didn't notice this before? I told her that was ridiculous. So, now she is crying and dropping Japanese as a second major. This means no more study abroad because business doesn't offer it. 7 years and just having an undergraduate degrees? doesn't sound like a sound game plan to me.Argggh! Idid the right thing? She will continue to take Japanese. Because of all the classes she took last year and this year towards that second degree, she will still have an extra year (I hope that is all!) to get one degree. She said she will keep taking Japanese after she graduates until she finishes out all of the classes they offer. Sometimes, I wish she just wouldn't call...

[CinV]

Is there no possibility of a minor in Japanese?

[Tsuga]

Just venting...

 

So, dd decided to add a major last year. Okay. No problem. One extra year she is told. Sounds good. Business and Japanese sound like they would make her very employable. So, this year she goes in for advisingin the fall...two extra years they tell her. I balked a little. But, it makes a little sense. Basically two years of advanced classes for each major/minor. NOW, she is having advising for spring semester and they tell her it will be three additional years. She forgot to put in twenty something hours of electives for her second major???? They didn't notice this before? I told her that was ridiculous. So, now she is crying and dropping Japanese as a second major. This means no more study abroad because business doesn't offer it. 7 years and just having an undergraduate degrees? doesn't sound like a sound game plan to me.Argggh! Idid the right thing? She will continue to take Japanese. Because of all the classes she took last year and this year towards that second degree, she will still have an extra year (I hope that is all!) to get one degree. She said she will keep taking Japanese after she graduates until she finishes out all of the classes they offer. Sometimes, I wish she just wouldn't call...

 

Sounds extremely frustrating. How long has your daughter been studying?

 

It is common for students to finish in five years. Expensive, but common. Five or six years for a double major is normal, as you gathered. Students who finish in 3 - 4 are usually highly motivated and/or paying their own way and not taking out loans for living expenses (i.e. they have a very strong intrinsic or extrinsic motivation to get out of there, whether it's just drive or grinding poverty--in my case, a little of both).

 

On the other hand, some universities seem to have started really piling on the credits required, with minimum flexibility, sometimes it seems to keep students in and paying. I'm a little surprised that business cannot take ANY Japanese related credits as electives. Are there truly no social science or other Japanese courses that overlap with the business electives? But this would be consistent with some trends in higher education which seem to treat a school as a business, not a non-profit or public institution charged with achieving a goal related to the well-being of our society as a whole.

 

If I were her, I'd go talk to the business department. Languages are tough to negotiate because they're so culture-specific. They can't just pick up a bunch of credits from business electives and call it Japanese language related.

 

On the other hand, there are probably a bunch of Japanese language electives that, if the school is worth its salt, should count towards a business degree. I'm thinking of any technical Japanese courses, study abroad credits if she studies business courses in Japan, etc.

 

The other option, hard but a real option if the school is really going to say, "Nope, every major chosen has effectively three full years of classes that are exclusive to itself", is moving to a school that is less money-grubbing and more education-friendly. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that right off the bat, but if she goes in and they give her a load, let her know that she CAN transfer many credits and at the very least have two integrated majors.

 

If I were dean of a foreign language department I'd be bending over backwards to make my major double-major friendly, because people are getting practical these days. But in academia people do seem to live in bubbles sometimes!

 

http://catalog.wwu.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=10&poid=4593&returnto=1885

 

Above is an example of a Japanese major from what I'd call a student-friendly university (where I went, where they actually seem to think that their goal as a state institution is to provide students with efficient and meaningful preparation for life and a career... fancy that!). Note that the University of Washington, like 1.5 hours south, has about 20 more credits and none are allowed to overlap with anything else! This is just to give an example of how some universities have much better programs than others even if they don't have the ending salaries to get up in the rankings.

[Tsuga]

 

NOW, she is having advising for spring semester and they tell her it will be three additional years. She forgot to put in twenty something hours of electives for her second major???? They didn't notice this before?

 

See, that's nuts. I'm sorry, but requirements are (a) not common sense, but arbitrary in many cases, and ( B) change annually. It is the departments' and advisors' jobs to help the students make an appropriate plan. The student fills in the form and it must be checked over by the people who grant the degrees. That is their job!

 

Many universities and colleges require an approved plan before upper-level registration. It seems very, very strange to me that she could be consulting with the Japanese, business, and academic advising departments and not receive any counseling on what requirements she needs for graduation. There should be a website detailing all of this, and in the absolute worst-case, low-tech, "we don't know what we are doing" scenario, a piece of paper with checkboxes that advising will go through for each declared major, that matches what the department gave them.

 

True, some students don't go see advising. But you are suggesting your daughter did see advising and that they failed to point out that each major has its own electives?

 

And how did the Japanese program not notice this?

 

Okay, I'm furious with you now. :)

[Lolly]

Her business admin degree cannot have Japanese as a minor. They don't coexist... I think they would make a rather nice marriage, but they don't consult me! It can't be a double major either, so she has to have two declared majors each with their own minor. One Japanese class is being used towards something in the business major. 

 

And, yes, she has had advising all the way through. She seemed just fine with the idea...I think that is where some of my frustration is coming from. I think part of her is just hiding from the world. I must say, a business admind with a law minor and a Japanese with world communications degrees sounds quite impressive.But, she will still have the Japanese classes and ability to speak/write/communicate. That is a plus. It won't be wasted. And, she really enjoys those classes. I just don't see putting that much money into undergraduate degrees!She is also really upset that she won't be able to take any more overseas trips for credit because there aren't any that pertain to business admin (that she can find). 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Honestly?  No company is going to worry about if she has an actual degree in Japanese if she can pass a proficiency test showing that she can speak and write enough Japanese for business purposes.  (I was born and raised in Japan and have worked there.  My brother, who does not have any kind of a college degree but was able to prove proficiency in Japanese has worked over ten years in Japanese business, the last ten years in a high profile position.)

[bettyandbob]

Her business admin degree cannot have Japanese as a minor. They don't coexist... I think they would make a rather nice marriage, but they don't consult me! It can't be a double major either, so she has to have two declared majors each with their own minor. One Japanese class is being used towards something in the business major.

 

am I reading this correctly. It sounds like the university requires a minor for every major, so if she has 2 majors she has to have 2 minors. Is that right?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

am I reading this correctly. It sounds like the university requires a minor for every major, so if she has 2 majors she has to have 2 minors. Is that right?

This is different than my experience too. I thought usually a department set its own requirements for earning a minor in programs within that department. Iow the language department set requirements for language minors and the math department set requirements for math minors.

 

An Ed major and a chem major would have the same requirements to earn a math minor, though the courses to fulfill those requirements might vary.

 

Also I agree with Jean. Employers will be looking for language proficiency and post graduation time in country or working with Japanese companies or contacts.

[Tsuga]

I know it's personal but I am dying to know what university this is. They are basically refusing to give her a double major, as most people understand it. They are asking her to do concurrent bachelors' degrees. I realize that many universities are quite small so it would be personally identifying but I'm just amazed that they have such an inflexible program.

 

I guess this is a lesson to all of us--check out the student-friendliness of graduation requirements before choosing a school. When I went to college that wasn't an issue. I appreciate your venting because this is all new to me. I work in higher ed and I was aware that it was getting worse but your particular case is really bad.

 

It also raises to question of who would ever sacrifice a marketable degree for Japanese?!?! I love languages, am very pro-language, but would strongly advise against a language major for anybody other than, I suppose, theology or archaology, but then only if you could get a minor in the profession. I don't know about you guys but we aren't upper-middle class with a red carpet to the top... the degree has to be marketable and meaningful to a lot of people.

 

So sorry you're going through this.

[Starr]

She'll have a concentration in Japanese. Unless she's heading for a teaching language degree she'll be fine.

[elegantlion]

Wow, I'd be upset too. 

 

She can take the JLPT to show proficiency. http://www.jlpt.jp/e/

[Lolly]

am I reading this correctly. It sounds like the university requires a minor for every major, so if she has 2 majors she has to have 2 minors. Is that right?

Depends. Some majors require a minor;some do not. These two do require minors. To double major (which is something special? not just getting two majors), they have to meet certain requirements. I think hers don't because one is in the business department and the other is considered a humanity or art or something...

 

The Japanese major is very new. Therefore, the advisor, it turns out, doesn't have much of a clue what she is doing. Thus the problems. 

 

This is a very large state university. She will continue to take Japanese classes. She just absolutely loves them. I think they keep her sane just a little bit. She absolutely despises her business classes. She does realize that the degree itself would be fairly meaningless to the world at large. It would mean something to her. 

 

At the moment, she is sad and angry. That anger is being directed towards me, though Idid not tell her she could not continue with her plan. I put it in her lap. She does realize how futile it is.Since I am the mom, and the bearer of the bad news, I get the fall out. She truly seems terrified at the idea of graduating. At the moment, we are not speaking...It will pass; it always does. She did at least realize that she can still study abroad. She just cannot receive the lovely scholarship money she has qualified for to pay for it.It would have to come out of her own pocket.