TwoEdgedSword Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 How long does it realistically take a bright person to complete this test? I know ymmv, but I was told by the public school that they allot three hours and it can be done in an hour. I don't want to rush my daughter through this, but this time, it won't count for Merit. Turns out we have a super loaded day of commitments the same day and I'm trying to schedule rides for everybody. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The PSAT time is totally set in stone. Your daughter can not do it at her own pace. Filling out the form takes a good chunk of time - probably half an hour as we have to wait for the slowest student. Section 1 (Critical Reading) 25 minutes - must wait the full time whether you finish or not 1 minute to switch topics - get calculator, etc Section 2 (Math) 25 minutes 5 minute break An additional minute to read official directions Section 3 (Critical Reading) 25 minutes 1 minute to read directions/get calculator Section 4 (Math) 25 minutes 1 minute stretch break 1 minute to read directions Section 5 (Writing) 30 minutes Last two survey questions and admonition about sharing questions, etc. Pick up answer sheet. Pick up test booklets. It took us from 7:45 to 10:57 until I officially finished. There was also time in the beginning where I had to assign seats, etc, and wait for all the students to show up from their homerooms. NO student could leave early or work at their own pace beyond the set time allotted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 ps Whoever told you it could be done in an hour had no idea what they were talking about IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It doesn't matter how bright someone is. It's a timed test. Everyone finishes at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It doesn't matter how bright someone is. It's a timed test. Everyone finishes at the same time. Actually, students finish at different times in each section. Those who finish early just sit there and watch the clock usually. Some will check their work. We proctors are supposed to be watching like hawks to make sure they don't switch sections. I know I do. They put nice large numbers at the top of the booklets to make it easy to see. I warned mine ahead of time that if they even tried they'd be dismissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEdgedSword Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well thanks ladies! That is totally different from what she said. She is the high school guidance counselor who registered dd and took payment. I'm sure you are right. Thanks for the heads up. It will definitely cause me to replan the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well thanks ladies! That is totally different from what she said. She is the high school guidance counselor who registered dd and took payment. I'm sure you are right. Thanks for the heads up. It will definitely cause me to replan the day. If your school does it any other way they are flat out wrong and scores can be cancelled if anyone calls them on it. I've proctored this test for years now - only taking breaks when my own guys were doing it for the money as one can't proctor it then (for obvious reasons). The directions are quite official and college board can be quite picky. I even have to fill out seating charts as to where students sat just in case there are any questions later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEdgedSword Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well not my school......we homeschool ;-) and it is a l.o.n.g. drive for us. Found out after they took our hard earned $18, that a much closer P.S. does the test for $3. Oh well. Next year dd can take it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Actually, students finish at different times in each section. Those who finish early just sit there and watch the clock usually. Some will check their work. We proctors are supposed to be watching like hawks to make sure they don't switch sections. I know I do. They put nice large numbers at the top of the booklets to make it easy to see. I warned mine ahead of time that if they even tried they'd be dismissed. I have never been able to understand the reasoning behind this. It would make so much more sense if the student who saves time in one section could use this time on another :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well not my school......we homeschool ;-) and it is a l.o.n.g. drive for us. Found out after they took our hard earned $18, that a much closer P.S. does the test for $3. Oh well. Next year dd can take it there. Two of mine homeschooled high school too. It would have been nice if they could have homeschooled the tests too, but alas, that's frowned upon for some reason or another. :glare: Our school (the one I work at) charges $15. If there's one doing it for $3, they're supplementing it quite a bit (allowed of course, but not super common). The closer drive would be nice! I have never been able to understand the reasoning behind this. It would make so much more sense if the student who saves time in one section could use this time on another :-) Since when does College Board and/or these types of tests make sense? :lol: At least the ACT has ALL the math, etc, in one section with a longer time so a student can use it as they wish. With the SAT/PSAT it's short bursts of time with 2 sections each math/reading - then the writing mc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleinMN Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I find that the more students I have take these tests, the more annoyed I am with the entire process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shage Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Interesting bc this is not what my student experienced this week. 1. no writing 2. I dropped off at 8 and picked up at 12. 3. he said 1 5 min break and 1 15 min break tho this may be inaccurate. There is a writing section on the PSAT. But it is multiple choice so no writing. For some reason I find that amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEdgedSword Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 ha! Shage it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 How long does it realistically take a bright person to complete this test? I know ymmv, but I was told by the public school that they allot three hours and it can be done in an hour. Plan on a MINIMUM of 3 hours, just in case of delays, waiting around on students for whatever reason. A student may finish a section more quickly than the allotted time, but the student is not allowed to go on to the next section, so there is no way to work ahead if the student is speedy. So, the actual work of testing may take your DD only 1 hour, BUT -- it will be spread out in that 3 hours allotted for the required testing and timing procedures that Creekland outlined above. JMO: I would also make test-taking DD the priority for scheduling that day, even if it means dropping someone else's commitment for that one day. The PSAT only comes once a year, and in 11th grade it really "counts". I would want to encourage DD to see that the family takes her efforts seriously, so that she doesn't rush through it, or feel rushed thinking people are sitting in a car tapping feet and drumming fingers waiting on her. ;) Interesting bc this is not what my student experienced this week. 1. no writing 2. I dropped off at 8 and picked up at 12. 3. he said 1 5 min break and 1 15 min break tho this may be inaccurate. No writing on the PSAT tests that our DSs took as homeschoolers at the nearby private Christian high school, back in 2009 and 2010. It was pretty much exactly like what Creekland outlined above, except no writing. Total time from drop off to pick up was right around 3 hours, as I recall. I think the test only cost about $18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shage Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Plan on a MINIMUM of 3 hours, just in case of delays, waiting around on students for whatever reason. A student may finish a section more quickly than the allotted time, but the student is not allowed to go on to the next section, so there is no way to work ahead if the student is speedy. So, the actual work of testing may take your DD only 1 hour, BUT -- it will be spread out in that 3 hours allotted for the required testing and timing procedures that Creekland outlined above. No writing on the PSAT tests that our DSs took as homeschoolers at the nearby private Christian high school, back in 2009 and 2010. It was pretty much exactly like what Creekland outlined above, except no writing. Total time from drop off to pick up was right around 2.5 - 2.75 hours. As I recall, I think the test only cost about $18. The fifth section is called "writing skills" and is really a test of grammar and punctuation. Multiple choice. Per Wiki, it was added to the PSAT in 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSAT/NMSQT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The fifth section is called "writing skills" and is really a test of grammar and punctuation. Multiple choice. Per Wiki, it was added to the PSAT in 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSAT/NMSQT Ah. "Writing" sounds like the writing of an essay from a prompt, which IS part of the SAT and ACT tests. I assumed "essay" was what previous poster meant by "writing". :) So… no writing of an ESSAY on DSs' PSAT tests. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shage Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Ah. "Writing" sounds like the writing of an essay from a prompt, which IS part of the SAT and ACT tests. I assumed "essay" was what previous poster meant by "writing". :) So… no writing of an ESSAY on DSs' PSAT tests. ;) Well you know how it is. Essays. Filling in bubbles. The brain cramps either way. There are days I look at the College Board and think: Why didn't I think of that scam first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Well not my school......we homeschool ;-) and it is a l.o.n.g. drive for us. Found out after they took our hard earned $18, that a much closer P.S. does the test for $3. Oh well. Next year dd can take it there. You might double check on the $3 fee. It is possible that this is how much they will charge to proctor the exam on top of the $14 exam fee. There are some districts that pay for the exam for their students, or for students in a particular grade. If they are extending that to a student who is not registered in that school, it is a really good deal. I dropped my kids off at 7am and they were done by 1015. However, the proctors evidently didn't follow the script as far as telling the students how to fill out the individual info on the answer sheet. And they forgot to have them write out the statement about not sharing info until right at the end of the exam when a student asked about it. But it seems that they gave full time on all of the test sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Length of time will vary with the school (usually because of logistics rather than timing the content of the test), but do plan at least 3 hours. My daughter and two friends took it yesterday, three different schools, three different schedules. 1) had to be there at 6:45 am, got out about 11:30, said it took about 30 min just to get the name bubbles all filled in, large public high school 2) had to be there at 7:15 am, didn't get started until about 8:30 am because of issues with the room assignments, got out about 11:45 after waiting about 30 min for all the classrooms to finish, large public high school 3) had to be there at 8 am, got out about 11:45 (very small public high school, only about 40 kids taking the test) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Fee to take the exam in my district is $0. However, to have the exam scored I had to pay $17. The district wants all the students to have experience test taking so everyone 10th and 11th take it. It used to be 9th too, but they started giving the 9th graders a different exam this year. Anyway, I paid last year so dd could see what she needed to work on. I paid this year because she is in 11th so it counts. I did the same with ds years ago. I suspect the quoted $3 fee was only proctoring not scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Interesting bc this is not what my student experienced this week. 1. no writing 2. I dropped off at 8 and picked up at 12. 3. he said 1 5 min break and 1 15 min break tho this may be inaccurate. Yes, as mentioned before, the writing is not an essay, but rather a 30 question multiple choice section on grammar, etc. If there were a 15 minute break between sessions, that definitely was not correct as per college board. They try their best to standardize the thing across schools and classrooms due to the high stakes of the scholarship bit. However, the proctors evidently didn't follow the script as far as telling the students how to fill out the individual info on the answer sheet. And they forgot to have them write out the statement about not sharing info until right at the end of the exam when a student asked about it. But it seems that they gave full time on all of the test sections. Some schools opt to have their kids fill in the bubbles for name, address, and college questions at a different time than when they take the test. They still have to write out the statement and sign it the morning of the test. If that part had not been done, none of those tests would have counted, so it's good that a student asked about it! I doubt they care as much if the other bubbles are filled out according to protocol - esp since it can be done at a different time. Our script there is more or less to explain what they are filling out. We can assist as needed for that part. We can't help at all with the statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEdgedSword Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 I just thought of another question.....the graphing calculator.....is it really needed and used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I just thought of another question.....the graphing calculator.....is it really needed and used? The school provided graphing calculators for all the students, so I was glad my daughter had had at least a bit of exposure to using one to reduce issues with trying to figure out a different type of calculator. I had her do the practice test with her graphing calculator (bought a month or so ago, so she's still learning to use it) just to make sure it wouldn't be a big deal. I don't know if she would have had the option to use her own scientific calculator if I had insisted. This was also just a practice for her as she's only in the 9th grade. I'd have been more concerned if she were a junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I just thought of another question.....the graphing calculator.....is it really needed and used? "A" calculator was used by every student I saw. Our school provided basic 4 function calculators for any student who wanted one (dollar store variety). I have no idea if any student used their own calculator to graph any functions or not. I didn't watch them that closely. My kids all took the tests (PSAT/ACT/SAT/AP) with graphing calculators, but they also used them at home so were quite familiar with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 My dd was told to bring a calculator along with no. 2 pencils. When you paid you should have been given information on what to bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes, as mentioned before, the writing is not an essay, but rather a 30 question multiple choice section on grammar, etc. If there were a 15 minute break between sessions, that definitely was not correct as per college board. They try their best to standardize the thing across schools and classrooms due to the high stakes of the scholarship bit. Some schools opt to have their kids fill in the bubbles for name, address, and college questions at a different time than when they take the test. They still have to write out the statement and sign it the morning of the test. If that part had not been done, none of those tests would have counted, so it's good that a student asked about it! I doubt they care as much if the other bubbles are filled out according to protocol - esp since it can be done at a different time. Our script there is more or less to explain what they are filling out. We can assist as needed for that part. We can't help at all with the statement. Do you mean they fill out the answer sheets before test day or sometime after the PSAT answers bubbles are filled in? If seen the first with AP, but don't think it happened here. There were a dozen kids in the office when we arrived, who were saying they had signed up for the exam but weren't on the room assignment lists. I'd be surprised if they could have them back later. Seems like a security issue given all the discussion about the test in College Confidential yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Do you mean they fill out the answer sheets before test day or sometime after the PSAT answers bubbles are filled in? If seen the first with AP, but don't think it happened here. There were a dozen kids in the office when we arrived, who were saying they had signed up for the exam but weren't on the room assignment lists. I'd be surprised if they could have them back later. Seems like a security issue given all the discussion about the test in College Confidential yesterday. The bubbles would need to be filled in before testing - not after. I could envision a scene where high schools would have their students fill them in before, but extra students coming in wouldn't have done this. It wouldn't be a pretty scene. When we have homeschoolers they fill them out right alongside our school's students. Proctors just have the correct homeschooling code to give them. It'd definitely be a security violation if a student got their test back after test completion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just asked ds. He said no one in his room had filled the sheets out ahead of time. The only other thing I can think of is that maybe they weren't being sent to CB for grading. Fairfax CO used to do that. The students paid if they wanted scoring. Otherwise they got their bubble sheet back with an answe key. Not sure exactly what this district does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Just asked ds. He said no one in his room had filled the sheets out ahead of time. The only other thing I can think of is that maybe they weren't being sent to CB for grading. Fairfax CO used to do that. The students paid if they wanted scoring. Otherwise they got their bubble sheet back with an answe key. Not sure exactly what this district does. Perhaps. I have no idea about schools doing the tests without submitting them for grades. All of ours get submitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well not my school......we homeschool ;-) and it is a l.o.n.g. drive for us. Found out after they took our hard earned $18, that a much closer P.S. does the test for $3. Oh well. Next year dd can take it there. the current cost $14 - the school can charge an extra fee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I just thought of another question.....the graphing calculator.....is it really needed and used? A graphing calculator is unnecessary. A regular scientific calculator does just fine for all the standardized tests (except AP calc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 the current cost $14 - the school can charge an extra fee Some schools also pay the fee for students. Not always for homeschoolers, but it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Some schools also pay the fee for students. Not always for homeschoolers, but it is possible. That's what Loudoun County, VA does. It was a pleasant and unexpected surprise to not have to pay for the PSAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 A regular scientific calculator does just fine for all the standardized tests (except AP calc) My guy would argue that it was also extremely helpful for AP Stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 My guy would argue that it was also extremely helpful for AP Stats. probably so. I forgot about that one. OTOH, on the Math subject SATs it's not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 OTOH, on the Math subject SATs it's not necessary. Maybe not "necessary",, but if you are good at using it, it can help you get problems more quickly. My kids have solved systems of equations by graphing them with the calculator much quicker than they could have worked out the algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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