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[lewelma]

I wouldn't do any language arts with an unwilling 5 year old.  I think you will be more likely to damage to her desire to engage in formal learning later on, than you will help her to move forward.

 

I would suggest you require 10 minutes a day of some sort of small motor skill work - letters if desired, otherwise drawing, dot-to-dot, mazes, etc.  Then leave books around the house for her to pick up.  Turn the computer off and let her find her own way for a year.

 

Ruth in NZ

[blondeviolin]

At 5, I'd encourage reading lots of good reading. Maybe some letter formation if her fine motor skills are up to it. Sometimes, if the child is fluent and interested, we begin grammar (First Language Lessons) at a very gentle pace.

[Jackie]

We don't use much of a curriculum for language arts for my advanced kindy girl. She wanted to learn how to spell, so we did use the first two levels of All About Spelling, but she got bored with it so we didn't buy level 3. She then declared she wanted to learn grammar, so we're very slowly going through MCT Grammar Island together.

 

Here is what we do: I reserve a stack of books at the library each week - a variety of fiction and nonfiction, easier and more difficult, longer and shorter. I ask that she read aloud to me from anything in this stack three times per week so we can continue to work on pronunciation, intonation, comprehension. The stack is always left in a bin for her to read to herself as she chooses. Though there is a lot of variety in the stack, the books are primarily in the 3rd-5th grade reading level range, which is the range that she currently finds easier to more challenging. There are lots of ideas for books in the links in my signature.

 

My husband and I trade off evenings reading aloud from good quality books before bedtime. We don't quiz our daughter for comprehension, but embed it - "Why in the world do you think they did that? ... How do you think this character is feeling right now? ... What do you think will happen next? ... This chapter is called _____, any guesses what might happen in this chapter?"

 

We work on handwriting specifically one time per week. This is the area my daughter really doesn't like, so we minimize it for now. However, she will happily do mazes and all kinds of art, so we use those to develop fine motor skills.

 

My daughter likes to make up stories, so I started writing some of them down. Once in a while, I take one of her short stories, type it up, writing 1-3 sentences per page, print it out and staple it together to make a book and ask her to illustrate it. We shelve these along with her other books in her room. We're also starting to play with some of the writing prompts from BraveWriter's Jot It Down.

 

There is a book called Vocabulary Cartoons that I bought from Amazon. I had the binding cut off and we hang up one word per week to be the "Word of the Week". I make a point of using the word in conversation a handful of times that week and then pausing and saying something like "oh, that's the word of the week, isn't it? Do you remember it or should we go look at the definition again?" I think we'll have about 3 years or so of words this way and I'm a fan of doing such things slow-and-steady rather than piling it on.

[SarahW]

I haven't found any computer-based grammar that is any good.

 

My kid did the old combined FLL last year. I consolidated and/or skipped lessons and let him bounce around the room while giving the answers to the script. We're doing Island now and it seems to be a good segue for him.

 

But Island is designed to be a beginning program. So you could wait and start with that.

 

When my kid was in K he just learned that naming words are called nouns and action words are called verbs. You could maybe casually discuss those topics and see if that piques her interest?

[SarahW]

Oh, but for LA more than grammar - hmmm, I have my kid doing Evan Moors Folktales & Fables book. It includes reading, vocab, spelling, comprehension, and some mechanics. There's a bit of writing though, not sure if they have a lower level book with less writing. My kid needs more support for verbal development. For some kids this isn't necessary. Making your dd do something she doesn't need can backfire.

[Incognito]

Royal Fireworks Press has a lot of good materials - have you looked at their Aesop workbooks?  They might be interesting enough for your 5yo.

[Crimson Wife]

Why are you waiting on 3rd grade for MCT "island"? If she's a fluent reader, she could totally start it now. In fact, if you wait, she'll likely be bored by it. My oldest did "town" in the 2nd semester of 2nd and the 1st semester of 3rd, and she would've been totally bored by "island" at that point.

 

My DS started MCT "island" 2nd semester of his "transition" year between K & 1 (he'd just turned 6) and we went slowly. We continued on with "Grammar Town", "Practice Town", and the Caesar's English books but have held off on "Paragraph Town" and the poetry book. I may add them to his LA "loop" schedule once he finishes Scholastic "Paragraph Writing Made Easy" and "Practice Town" book (he's 80% of the way through that book) but I'll have to see how he's doing in terms of his writing.

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[Embassy]

Mad Libs is a fun way to begin grammar.  Write About Me and Write About My World are books that start the child off writing about what is interesting in their world.  I'm not sure what your daughter likes, but my 6 year old daughter will often be more willing to do a task if it involves role-playing (i.e. she is the teacher and I am the student, I am a child being read to and she is the parent, she is a contestant on a game show trying to get all the points by answering questions correctly).  I actually check my daughter's reading comprehension by playing the part of a little kid interrupting her reading and asking her questions about the story.   

 

Reading aloud is an important part of ELA at this age too.  HTH

[EndOfOrdinary]

Why not just let her read books?  Any books she likes that are not total drivel.  She is 5.  Even if she was 8 that would be English curriculum.  Unschooling is totally viable for many kids.  I would have thrived as an unschooler and am sincerely remiss that I only forced the issue once I became a high schooler.  For some kids it does not work (my son did not like the approach until recently, and even then he wants a nice structure to choose from), but for strongly willed students merely setting up "learning time" and giving a huge range of choices (like 25 or more) is the only way to educate them.  They educate themselves or you stiffle their learning.

 

Give her books, let her read, talk to her about what she reads.  No school, just discussing life and reading.  If you stop forcing her to try and cooperate, you might be amazed at what she would be willing to do.

[katilac]

Kinder was completely optional in my homeschool. I personally think 5 is very young to require school work, no matter how bright the student. Academically capable does not equal developmentally ready. Likewise, just because a child has the reading skills for chapter books does not mean they are ready in other ways. Chapter books require a longer attention span, more stamina, and so on. My dd did not start reading chapter books until 6 1/2, even though her reading skills were well above level. 

 

Depending on what you mean by 'schoolwork,' a couple of hours a week can be just fine for kinder and even beyond. We did very, very little required seat work in the early grades. We did tons of reading aloud, hands-on projects, nature walks, field trips, and so on. 

 

Limit her screen time. Offer her plenty of opportunity for active outdoor play and creative play (legos, games, art supplies). Surround her with good and excellent books. Have conversations, take walks, go on field trips. Spark her curiosity. Trust her curiosity. Very few children do not want to learn. 

 

My youngest has the 'don't tell me what to do!' gene in spades. Taking away the requirement took away the resistance most of the time, and she could rarely resist the siren call of older sibling learning and doing - she had to join in!  

 

We are in our 12th year of home schooling (9th and 11th grades, with the older DE at the local uni). I promise that you will soon long for the days that weren't filled with book work! Enjoy it while you can. 

[BusyMom5]

At 5, in PS PreK, your DD would be reading and doing worksheet to work on her handwriting.  Since this is a weak link for her, I would have her do some writing each day to build up her muscles ;)  It doesn't have to be anything specific, drawing, tracing letters, filling in missing letters, ect. will all help build her writing muscles.  If she already knows the K material, I think I would just keep going at her pace.  There is no rush for longer books!  Also be sure and do plenty of crafty activities w/ scissors and glue!  Kindergarten is just as much about motor skills and social skills as it is about academics.

 

I don't remember my DD1's test results, it was years ago, but I do think now, 6 years later, that her score in reading/LA was very high b/c she was a young reader w/ a big vocabulary.  DD2 has never been tested, but if I compare them, the younger sister does better writing than she does ;)  DD2 was a later reader, but her writing skills are much better.  She just has a natural way about her, putting words together in an interesting way.  My point is that just b/c your DD has a high score in ELA does not mean she is super-gifted in them, it could just be a fluke of the age that the took the test.  She may be more mathy than you think ;)  Or she could be very gifted?  Who knows!  Just don't box her into "She's my ELA girl" and "He's my Mathy boy" quite yet! 

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[Heathermomster]

For learning letter formation, HWT sells and the Wet-Dry-Try app for IPAD.  

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[EndOfOrdinary]

I let my son know he could ask about any of the letters that he did not know and would ask him to tell me what some of his words said which I could not read. There was also a lot of praise and over-the-top encouragement so he felt good about himself and his writing. The combination opened up enough communication that he accepted guidance.

 

The largest factor in him actually caring much about his writing was when he wanted to communicate to others. Up until that point he just played along with the handwriting. Now that he wants to talk to people with letters, things are starting to really look a lot more clean.

[Heathermomster]

A question about handwriting: Sometimes (on her own initiative) DD5 will draw a picture and write a sentence about it. So she's already developed her own handwriting "style" though it looks obviously like the writing of a young child that will presumably improve over time. My question is, if you're not starting from scratch, should you use a handwriting "program" that says you should write each letter a certain way, or do you just let things develop naturally? And if you let things develop naturally, what constitutes a "bad habit" that needs correction/intervention, as opposed to just a developmental stage that will improve over time?

 

We actually have some unused HWT books on our shelf. They were supposed to be for DS8, but in the end he just taught himself to write (having already taught himself to read), so we just let it happen. Early on we had to convince him not to hold the pencil in a "fist grip", but DD5 doesn't have that problem.

 

Well, if you decide to use a specific font, each lettering comes with a specific starting point and stroke pattern.  I assumed the formations were in place because they were the most efficient way to form letters.  I have a friend who taught fourth grade for years that felt letter formation was very important, and she complained about the poor penmanship in her classroom.  Maybe I'm wrong, but most lower case letters seem to be formed the same, with or without serifs.  The lowercase t and w seem to be the exception.  The upper case letters are the ones that I presume set various fonts apart.  I finally settled on one font and my DD is using it.  

 

I am personally more interested in proper pencil grip because pencil grip is extremely difficult to correct once established.  

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[1053]

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[Jackie]

<snip>

 

On the other hand, some of you are starting MCT at age 6 (or younger?). Those of you who do, would you say your children are more "cooperative" that my DD5 is? How do you tell when someone is "ready" (in every way) for that program?

Just responding to this one part since I was one of the people who mentioned MCT with a very young child. At this time, we're only using Grammar Island, and we're using it at a slower pace than it is designed for. Whenever we get around to completing it, I will reassess and decide if we should move on with the rest of Island. Right now, I believe she would also enjoy Building Language, but she would not be ready for either Sentence Island or the poetry book. DD was specifically requesting to learn grammar and I see no reason to wait until she is ready for the full level before introducing the one piece she wanted.

 

As for her being cooperative, that depends. If she is either bored or frustrated, she's not very cooperative. When I manage to magically get the challenge level just right, and she is interested in the topic, she is wonderfully cooperative.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I suggested an unschooling approach for all three of the reasons you listed. Five is difficult to assess readiness for and very likely, unless the child is asking for it, they are not ready for all subjects to be introduced. My son began both reading and heavy language work (in English as well as Spanish) long before five because he openly asked, but he did not start math work at the same level till about 7. He did not have much interest and could handle the very basics so it was not pushed. Many kids will hold off on reading, but be highly engrossed in science. For some history is a major pull, but they could care less about writing. By using an unschool approach, you allow your younger student to find themselves in the learning rather than forcing the learning into the student. By the time kids are 9 or 10 they have a fairly full load regardless of where they started if their acceleration doesn't level off.

 

I would unschool through the entire thing if it works for the household. However, that requires quite a nice stack of research to really pull off well. I was unschooled using the 80's approach. It looks nothing like the way unschooling is portrayed now. Much more Holt style. The continum is high and very much not a one size free for all the way Radical Unschooling is currently portrayed in many places. Unschooling is a household and complete family decision, though. My husband is not down with it under any circumstances (he believes in absolute authority) and my son does not have the personality. So we do much more Interest Led. If it works for her, you will know pretty quickly. If it doesn't that might take a bit longer, but it will be fairly obvious when you sit down and talk.

 

It very much so sounds like you have quite a budding power struggle around school. Unschooling approaches completely remove that dynamic and get you back to a place where you are just interacting with your daughter in a much more enjoyable way. If you want to hash out obedience, then curriculum is a good way to do that. Just be careful to draw a big line in the day when you go back to being Mom not Teacher.

[Crimson Wife]

 

On the other hand, some of you are starting MCT at age 6 (or younger?). Those of you who do, would you say your children are more "cooperative" that my DD5 is? How do you tell when someone is "ready" (in every way) for that program?

 

My kids are cooperative in the primary & elementary years. Middle school with all the puberty hormones, unfortunately, has been quite a different story.

 

If I get tears and/or pushback from a pre-pubescent child, it's been because the program I was trying wasn't a good "fit".

 

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[boscopup]

I would just have her do a little handwriting each day and call it good.

 

My 5 year old is an advanced reader. I'm not worrying about grammar yet, even though he could handle mct island easily now. I found no benefit to doing grammar early with my oldest. This child's school consists of math, reading aloud from Free&Treadwell readers, and either Wheeler's Speller at a VERY slow pace (a lesson every 4 days or so) or Pentime 1 for letter practice. I actually prefer him to do Wheeler's, where he practices copying sentences (he has excellent fine motor skills, unlike his big brothers) and learns some spelling, but the last couple weeks he wanted to do Pentime instead, and I'm cool with that. Really, "school" is just practice learning to do stuff, since he's advanced and still only 5. One thing I've noticed with him is that school is only fun if it's "easy". That is similar to how my oldest was at 4-5. He didn't start to really want to work at academics until 6-7. I don't think that's unusual.

 

It really is ok to relax at this age and push academics later when she's ready for it. I'm not saying not to do academics, but keep it short and sweet. A few minutes spent on handwriting each day will do a ton of good. 2 hours of school per week is FINE for a 5 year old.

[1053]

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