WaterLily Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I very recently brought my 8th grader back home after 2 years in a Montessori school and I need help figuring out math. Initially he was determined to do algebra this year because he supposedly did prealgebra lat year and he doesn't want to get "behind", but I think he's now open to prealgebra. I know we have some gaps and I think he might need to work on a more solid foundation. :( We did a couple placement tests and it didn't go well. The thing is, he's really bright and I know he'll either learn or remember the concepts fairly quickly and easily once we choose a program and get started. While I'm figuring this out I'm having him work on the prealgebra review section at the beginning of Lial and thankfully, that's going very well and he likes it! So now I'm wondering if maybe I should get Lial prealgebra this year and let him do algebra on 9th. I know he'd be perfectly capable of doing algebra this year of he hadn't lost ground over the last couple years... I also really like Christian Light math and wonder if the 8th grade books would be another good option? Is that pretty much prealgebra? I've also read good things about Dolciani prealgebra. Sooo....does it sound like a good idea to do prelgebra this year, and what would you recommend? Also, I should add that as of now I don't think I'll be homeschooling him through high school so that's another factor. I thought it might be tough to get the Alg I credit at home (if we could even get it done) and then do Alg II at school. So I'm thinking my best bet might be to just make sure he's very prepared for algebra in 9th.... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiMi 4under3 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Sooo....does it sound like a good idea to do prelgebra this year, and what would you recommend? Also, I should add that as of now I don't think I'll be homeschooling him through high school so that's another factor. I thought it might be tough to get the Alg I credit at home (if we could even get it done) and then do Alg II at school. So I'm thinking my best bet might be to just make sure he's very prepared for algebra in 9th.... ? If you don't think you'll homeschool for high school, then work on getting a solid base in pre-algebra. My two favorites are Saxon 8/7 and Aops Prealgebra. Yes, completely different approaches. ;) I have no experience with Chriatian Light or Dolciani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Do you know where he is weak in his pre-algebra concepts? I'd put him on Khan Academy and do some various types of problms at home to distinguish wher the gaps are. If you hav to wait, that's fine, but prhaps a month of review could still allow you to do algebra I this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Could you clarify a bit -- If the book you have is "going very well and he likes it" -- why do you think you need a change? Was the placement test for the same book you are using or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterLily Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 Sorry about that. He started taking a Saxon placement test... I think it was an algebra readiness test (he did 1 out of 3 pages). Even though I don't intend on using Saxon I thought it still might be helpful. Then I decided to have him do all 8 pages of the Christian Light 700 placement test because I was/am considering using CLE. Honestly, it was rough. There was just a lot he either didn't know or remember. He struggled with some of the expression and equation problems (especially fractions and exponents) and really didn't know how to do the percent problems at all. He also doesn't know his formulas or U.S./Metric conversions. Like I said, I think he'll pick these things up quickly but of course with a placement test there is no help or instruction so if you don't know it, you don't know it. I would definitely like to find out more about where the gaps are but he did some Kahn Academy at his previous school and says he doesn't really care for online learning. Might be OK for a short term thing though? We've only been doing Lial for a couple days and so far, only the prealgebra review section. Even though it's going well, I'm worried that once we get out of this section and into the meat of the algebra section, it could be a struggle because of the gaps. I can't say for sure but that's why I'm considering Lial prealgebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I wouldn't recommend CLE 800 mainly because pre-algebra is spread over 700 and 800. You don't want to start a 2-year pre-algebra program in 8th. Nor do you want to skip 700 if it might contain some of the pre-algebra he needs, kwim? I haven't used Lial's, but if it's going well I would consider sticking with that. Maybe some Lial's users can comment on whether to stick with the algebra or get the pre-algebra in your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterLily Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 That was very helpful info about CLE! I had no idea that the prealgebra was spread over 7 and 8. OK, that helps and I suppose I'll eliminate that option. I guess we could keep going with Lial's for now and I can get a copy of BCM just in case. Although I was leaning toward the Lial's prealgebra as opposed to BCM... not sure if one would be better than the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 bcm is going to include more review of fractions/exponents/percents/etc than pre-algebra but frankly I would buy both (if you get old editions they are very very cheap) and skim through them before placement. I'd also keep both for reference until he graduates. Between them they include pretty much every part of pre-algebra mathematics you might want to know about in two handy reference volumes. ETA: Furthermore, whichever one you go with, I would have him test through the book. It won't hurt him at all to have a preview of the beginning part of algebra before entering algebra in the fall and may make the transition easier. By "test through the book" I mean read the chapter, take the chapter test. If he gets an A/B, review/correct/reteach any missed problems -- otherwise, work the homework and retest. If you work the homework and retest, don't tell him what was wrong on the test -- just tell him that he missed a few so he'll be doing the homework and retesting. That way he can't just memorize the solution method for the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 You might look at having him run through the Key to... series for fractions, decimals, percentages, etc. as a supplement to Lial's (see below). They are short, simple, booklets, no TM involved, so everything is clearly laid out for the student and the little workbooks are great for solidifying some of the necessary basic skills for tackling Algebra. I am working through them myself, actually. I recommend, if you go this route, doing level 1 of each, then level 2 of each, all the way through level 4. Get the answer keys. Makes grading much faster and the student can do the grading, see where there were errors and review the material with you to determine where any issues may be. And I agree that also having him do Khan Academy on the side might really help move him through. http://www.keycurriculum.com/products/key-to You can usually find like new cheaper versions at Amazon, so you might look there, too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 … I need help figuring out math... ... We did a couple placement tests and it didn't go well... … There was just a lot he either didn't know or remember. He struggled with some of the expression and equation problems (especially fractions and exponents) and really didn't know how to do the percent problems at all. He also doesn't know his formulas or U.S. /Metric conversions.… I don't think I'll be homeschooling him through high school... … I thought it might be tough to get the Alg I credit at home (if we could even get it done) and then do Alg II at school. So I'm thinking my best bet might be to just make sure he's very prepared for algebra in 9th.... ? Very wise of you! Focus on getting solid in those weak areas first (fractions, decimals, percents). Then do a Pre-Algebra program this year in 8th grade. That will give DS a very solid platform for success with Algebra 1 in 9th grade, where ever that takes place. :) You might look at having him run through the Key to... series for fractions, decimals, percentages, etc. as a supplement to Lial's (see below). Esp. because of the struggling with fractions, percents and decimals, Keys to… was going to be my suggestion, too. Get solid with those foundational skills first, and THEN move on to a Pre-Algebra program. If you find that DS really connects well with the Keys… workbooks, there is also a Keys to Algebra series which looks like it might work as a Pre-Algebra, or an "intro to Algebra topics", and then go on to a full Algebra program in 9th grade. Lial's is a good, traditional Pre-Algebra program. Dolciani programs are accelerated/rigorous, so not sure I'd go there with a student who needs to slow down and focus on the foundational skills. Another *possible* option (though not my first suggestion) that allows you to go at your own pace -- so, speed up in sections you know, slow down for sections you're shaky in -- is ALEKS. Downside to ALEKS is that it is self-directed/self-taught with not as much instruction or helps. At this stage, though, you are probably better off with something with more instruction and helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterLily Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 OK, so yes, I've noticed that both Lial's BCM and prealgebra can be found at very cheap prices so I'll get both of those. (Do I need the solutions manuals? I have the one for Introductory Algebra.) I'm just not sure if I want to keep going with the Algebra or make one of those our main text. I looked at the Key to books and while each individual workbook is cheap, it would get expensive pretty quickly for me to get every workbook and answer key for several topics (unless I found some amazing deals). I think the books look great though so I'm not sure what to do about that. Now that I'm talking about have 3 of the Lial's books and several Key to series books.... I can see myself getting overwhelmed and not knowing what to use though lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Now that I'm talking about have 3 of the Lial's books and several Key to series books.... I looked at the Key to books and while each individual workbook is cheap, it would get expensive pretty quickly for me to get every workbook and answer key for several topics (unless I found some amazing deals). I think the books look great though so I'm not sure what to do about that. Well, yes and no. IMO you just can NOT put a price tag on the value of getting a solid foundation of math! With a solid foundation, a student will move through high school math fine. Without that foundation, it is going to be blood, sweat and tears and probably having to repeat/back up and result in hating math. ;) Rainbow Resource has the complete sets of Fractions ($28), Decimals ($28), and Percents ($23), so that's $79 for a supplement for the specific weak areas. You already own a Lial's, and you can get the other one you want for pretty cheap used if you go with an older edition. I'm seeing some Lial's texts on Homeschool Classifieds for anywhere from $7-$25... Now that I'm talking about have 3 of the Lial's books and several Key to series books.... I can see myself getting overwhelmed and not knowing what to use though lol! But you'll only be getting 3 Lial's to be able to look in-depth to see which ONE is the best fit for DS. Go with that one. Only occasionally dip into another edition if you need additional helps or work that an alternate edition provides and that your "spine" choice does not. As far as the Keys to… They are quick workbook pages; you can usually get through 1-3 pages in about 15 minutes as a supplement. You don't have to do every single page. They do build up in concepts from intro to more in-depth, so I would do the pages in a workbook in order, and the workbooks in order. In other words, I would not try to line up the Keys To… workbook concepts with the Pre-Algebra spine program concepts -- just treat the Keys To… workbooks as a separate 15 minute math done at a different time during the day. BEST of luck in your math adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterLily Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 Thank you so much for taking the time to lay this all out for me! :) It's making more sense to me now. Yay!!! BTW, would you advise getting the Lial's prealgebra and BCM solutions manuals? Thank you SO much for your help! ALL the replies have been extremely helpful. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The solution manuals would depend on how well and rapidly you are able to work the problems yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The solution manuals would depend on how well and rapidly you are able to work the problems yourself. Or you could type them into wolfram alpha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 BTW, would you advise getting the Lial's prealgebra and BCM solutions manuals? If you have a half price bookstore (HPB) near to you, give them a call. I saw a teacher annotated edition for $8 at HPB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Or you could type them into wolfram alpha. A little problematic with word problems :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'd pick up a copy of Lial's Pre-Algebra. Have your son work through each of the chapter reviews. If he runs into a weakness, address that deficit and then move on. Regards, Kareni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterLily Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Going through the chapter reviews to find gaps/weaknesses sounds like a good idea! I bought copies of Lial's BCM and prealgebra AND the solutions manuals.... all for under $25 (Amazon and eBay)! :) I'm also working on buying the Key to books so we should be all set! Im just hoping that he continues to like Lial's! Thanks again, everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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