The Brainy Bunch book - College by 12 family

[shawthorne44]

I would hate to see academic-type homeschoolers behaving or thinking disdainfully toward early college students who are very appropriately placed there. I daresay more of us would have gone this route had we known the system well enough to use it to our child's advantage. I certainly would have considered it if I'd had the background and connections to know how to investigate the possibility. Even so, anytime I've heard of it or considered it, it was about ONE or TWO children and never recommended for the whole family or for Other People's Kids.

 

My disdain for the book and for this family's approach is that they are gung-ho, wholesale, across the board saying that early college is appropriate for all homeschooled students. That is ridiculous on the face of it. It is a proposition that has absolutely nothing whatever to do with unique students for whom early college is the solution to their needs.

 

A like doesn't quite cover my agreement with this.  Although I don't have an child old enough for this to be a question.  But, I think the reason I like to read the early college threads is that if someone had said the words "Early college" anywhere in my hearing when I was a teenager, I would have wanted to do it and I'd have been driven to meet that goal.  My parents wouldn't have liked it.  But, I think in my case it would have worked out very well.  The major university I attended was one block away from my high school.  I could have lived at home, and even done the high school stuff I was interested in with my boyfriend of the time.  Instead most of high school was a complete and total waste of time.  Yet I thrived in college and I'd have gravitated to the same brainy classes  that I eventually took, where external things didn't seem to matter so much to people.  

[Dmmetler]

I could easily see a medical school turning down a 14-17 yr old with excellent MCAT scores when they have a bunch of other applicants, especially if she got her undergrad from a less competitive or less well known college. It certainly doesn't mean the student isn't as capable as the other applicants, only that there was some reason (which could be as simple as the medical school being concerned about liability) that they preferred the older student.

 

Most of the herpetology/field biology research projects my DD has been on require a driver's license. The only reason she's been allowed to participate is that I'm willing to go with her and take legal responsibility. I can easily imagine, if she went for a BS at 12, being turned down by, say, the University of Miami grad school at 16-because most of the research projects from University of Miami in field biology are done in the Florida Everglades.

 

 

[wapiti]

 But, I think the reason I like to read the early college threads is that if someone had said the words "Early college" anywhere in my hearing when I was a teenager, I would have wanted to do it and I'd have been driven to meet that goal.  My parents wouldn't have liked it.  But, I think in my case it would have worked out very well.  The major university I attended was one block away from my high school.  I could have lived at home, and even done the high school stuff I was interested in with my boyfriend of the time.  Instead most of high school was a complete and total waste of time.  Yet I thrived in college and I'd have gravitated to the same brainy classes  that I eventually took, where external things didn't seem to matter so much to people.  

 

This is an interesting idea.  I too would have loved to have gotten out of high school early.  That could have been a useful motivation to work harder than I actually did in high school (because I didn't work hard).

 

However, enrolling as an official college student rather than a DE student might have closed the door to the selective school that I ultimately attended.  Can't homeschoolers often (depending on specifics) have the best of both worlds by enrolling in CC or DE courses as high school students without officially graduating from high school (leaving open the door to apply to selective schools at the usual age)?  Just thinking out loud here... I haven't read all the posts in this thread.

[stripe]

One of the best doctors I know is a DO. Getting into medical school is not a matter of "passing" the MCAT, acceptance is incredibly competitive and someone with entirely decent MCAT scores may find themselves without an offer because their scores and background were not enough to make them stand out from the pack. I don't see a problem, if being a doctor is your goal, with going to whatever legitimate, respectable school will accept you regardless of whether it grants MD or DO degrees. I know that is what my friend did.

Yeah, at one point my doctor's office announced their latest doctor, who was a grad of some med school in the Antilles, and they made sure to state she is American and from the area.

[shawthorne44]

Yeah, I don't think DE was an option back then.  Well, at least that I knew.  I know my high school would have actively tried to squash any attempts to do so, so if I had it would have been in the evenings.  

I didn't work very hard in high school either.  I learned that if you knew the material but didn't turn in homework, you would get a B, which was fine by me.  That put me about at the 30th percentile at my high school, which wouldn't get into any tippy-top schools.  

[umsami]

The book states clearly that the daughter struggled with the MCAT and did not get into any of the traditional medical schools to which she applied, but the Osteopathy route opened up so she took that path and it seems to have worked for her.

 

I doubt she struggled too much with her MCAT…because good MCATs and a good GPA are still required for osteopathic schools as well.  I know two people who had MCATs in the 29-30 range, 3.6 GPAs, and good references and did not get into med school…either allopathic or osteopathic.  My guess is that an osteopathic school was willing to consider her, whereas an MD school would have assumed she would have done one of the few Interflex programs (6 year BA/MD program, similar to training in many parts of the world) rather than an early college program.  In general, osteopathic schools have been more open to older medical students, career changers, etc.

 

I believe her daughter went to PCOM, which is a very well regarded medical school in Philadelphia.  Their students, residents, and fellows are in many of the Philadelphia/NJ Hospitals.  Many DOs are double-boarded, meaning they pass their Osteopathic boards, as well as the ABMS boards.  They are in no way, lesser physicians.

[Catwoman]

You're kinder than I. I got the book from the library (thanks for the tip, pp!) and after reading it I decided that the best description would be naive.

 

Do they think education consists of accumulating pieces of paper? Of speeding through Saxon and Khan to pass tests?

 

Despite all the "education is important!" talk, I felt there was a bit of anti-intellectualism in there.

I'll admit that I have been critical of this family's methods, but I will say that not everyone wants college to be all about "intellectualism." For some people, getting a college degree is a means to an end, rather than some great intellectual experience. I think it depends on the student and that student's personal goals.

 

Let's face it, not all students are going to want to sit around having deep discussions about literature and philosophy. I would suspect that the majority of college students aren't doing too much of that, except as part of a study group to prepare for exams. That doesn't indicate a lack of intelligence. It doesn't mean that those students won't make excellent accountants, engineers, or business executives. It doesn't even mean that they won't read great literature and discuss philosophy later in their lives. It simply means that they know they need to get certain degrees in order to get a job in their chosen field, so they do what it takes to get those pieces of paper, and they want to do it as quickly as possible.

 

My issue with that particular family is that it seems like the parents are making the decisions for the kids, rather than allowing the children to choose their own individual paths. And people can say whatever they like, but I find it impossible to believe that every child in that family would have made virtually the same choices and done things like taking SATs at such early ages, if they had been given the option to do otherwise.

[stripe]

I doubt she struggled too much with her MCAT…

...

I believe her daughter went to PCOM, which is a very well regarded medical school in Philadelphia.

She says on p 85 that her daughter "did not do so great" on the MCAT and was not accepted anywhere for traditional medical school. Serennah then went to PCOM's Georgia campus to get a master's in microbiology. She then applied to DO schools and was accepted at several and attended one in Georgia (p 86-87). I was unsure reading this where she actually attended, but looking online, it seems like the PCOM campus in GA.

[umsami]

She says on p 85 that her daughter "did not do so great" on the MCAT and was not accepted anywhere for traditional medical school. Serennah then went to PCOM's Georgia campus to get a master's in microbiology. She then applied to DO schools and was accepted at several and attended one in Georgia (p 86-87). I was unsure reading this where she actually attended, but looking online, it seems like the PCOM campus in GA.

 

Ah interesting.  So she probably did quite well in her M.S. in microbiology, made some contacts at the Georgia campus (which I had forgotten about), and then applied.  Basically, the nontraditional route is well liked (or at least not penalized) at many osteopathic medical schools. 

[MistyMountain]

I don't see what is so horrible about this. I actually think we push college back a little too far. I don't think everyone can or should do this but I don't think what they did is wrong. I don't think early college only has to be for kids that are so far ahead and are begging for it. The kids are happy and got a jumpstart on good careers. If they change their minds they can go back and try something else. I would have loved this opportunity even though it wasn't something I really knew about or was begging about. Lots of traditionally aged students students need to study for college entrance exams to get into schools.

[shawthorne44]

There is another thing I've never heard mentioned in one of these threads.  That college entrance didn't used to be 18 or older.  I remember reading about early Harvard and 16 was pretty standard.  You had to be proficient at X, Y and Z and that was what mattered.  When I was college, I read some journal articles on 17th century Oxford that said there was a broad age range, but that 16 and 17 year olds were together between 50-60% of the incoming students.  (I forget the precise number)  There were some 12- year-olds.  Although the academics were squabbling about the meaning of the evidence they had,.  

 

Of course, a much much smaller percentage of the population attended any college, so I guess by definition it was those in the very top.  Although, it is quite possible there were many dense nobles attending.  Or, maybe it was easier back then, although I'd doubt that.  

[SarahW]

I'll admit that I have been critical of this family's methods, but I will say that not everyone wants college to be all about "intellectualism." For some people, getting a college degree is a means to an end, rather than some great intellectual experience. I think it depends on the student and that student's personal goals.

 

 

But this family thinks their method is the BEST and are openly advocating that everyone else do the same. The is NO discussion in the book about the trade-offs. I don't even think they are aware there are any, which is why I think they are naive.

 

With them advocating this for everyone I think there is a real danger that they could seriously disadvantage a hs student who would want or need (especially if they wanted to do doctoral work in the liberal arts) an intellectual environment. And I'm not sure they even see that problem, or would recognize that as a problem.

[Catwoman]

But this family thinks their method is the BEST and are openly advocating that everyone else do the same. The is NO discussion in the book about the trade-offs. I don't even think they are aware there are any, which is why I think they are naive.

 

With them advocating this for everyone I think there is a real danger that they could seriously disadvantage a hs student who would want or need (especially if they wanted to do doctoral work in the liberal arts) an intellectual environment. And I'm not sure they even see that problem, or would recognize that as a problem.

:iagree:

 

I absolutely agree with you.

 

I guess they figure that if their kids are basically pretty bright and they know how to learn new things and they have strong study skills, they will be able to learn whatever they're faced with in the future -- and that may very well be true for their children -- but to paint with such a broad brush and claim that all kids will be able to do the same is the part that bothers me.