Will Robin Williams' death be the catalyst for open talks about mental illness?

[Joanne]

I am so sad that this world lost another seemingly great person. I feel bad for Robin Williams that he had an illness that caused him to take his own life. I cannot fathom the depth of despair he must have felt to do so. Still I can't help but disagree with several people here, respectfully of course. I have family members that have committed suicides. Matter of fact my cousin lost her life to a car accident. Within a year her daughter committed suicide in front of the school bus with her brother on it. Within a year the same brother found his father dead from a suicide. Fast forward nearly 20 yrs and the son committed a horrible murder of his wife leaving his two children without either parent. It is devastating to say the least. What my cousin's son did, murder, was because of mental illness. Suffering from mental illness didn't make it any less devastating or selfish and not murder. It was a result of his illness but the outcome was the same. Now I am not by any means saying that Robin Williams or my cousin's daughter or husband's actions are equivalent to murder. Please don't misunderstand me. I am saying that their actions were equally devastating and selfish in regards to the people left behind. Because of their illness they saw no other way. They obviously were misguided enough at the time to believe that they were not acting selfishly. I know them. They didn't do it to cause more harm to their relatives. They hit rock bottom and thought it best for everyone and couldn't see the reality of others clearly. Now do I think all people believe they are acting unselfishly? No, some intend on causing maximum pain to the left behind but many cases they truly don't feel selfish. Even so, suicide is an  act that many times is unintentionally selfish. I have never met a relative of a suicide that was relieved their loved one made that choice even after the shock and mourning is over. With a clear head unhindered by depression and mental illness, we can see the true outcome of suicide, our lifetime without the one we love. Again I am not making light of depression or mental illness. I believe there is a great chance for everyone to celebrate Robin William's life but also openly discuss every aspect of mental illness, depression, and suicide. My discussing his choice to commit suicide doesn't nullify what a great man he seemed to be nor the outstanding actor he was. My saying it is selfish doesn't nullify what I think of him as a person. I can say he committed a selfish act possibly with unselfish intentions because of a debilitating disease while still being in awe of him as a man. His suicide is only one part of his life as a whole. He was so much more than that. Right now he is being defined by many by his last choice but I do see many that are honoring his previous choices from acting to humanitarian acts. Now I would like to address the Mark guy's post. I actually did share it along with many other posts that had to do with honoring Robin. I think he has some valid points. I don't agree with everything he said but for the most part, I do think Robin made a choice. He could have chosen differently. Granted his body/brain didn't allow him to see the other choices as valid options. This doesn't make it any less a choice. To label it otherwise I think does give the false impression that if you hit rock bottom with depression you have no other choice. I want everyone to know there are other options. It may not feel like it. You may not be able to see it. Others may not even recognize the signs but there are other choices. There is help out there. Hopefully Robin Williams death will help people to see that depression can happen to anyone. I hope that in talking about depression and mental illness, people will be open and honest and accepting of all viewpoints. While I may disagree with some of the posters that hated Matt's blog post, I think it is great to have another viewpoint whether Matt's naysayers or lovers.  Mental illness not only affects the one with the illness but everyone around them. No two people will have the exact same reaction or views on the subject but by learning as much as possible about it and being open to all sides, hopefully we can help those that need it the most.

 

 

Would you call someone with cancer selfish?

Asthma?

Heart disease?

 

They all "affect those around them". They all consume family time, energy, other resources. They destroy families.

Depression is an ILLNESS. Their brains are not working right. He had no "choice" - his brain was diseased. You can no more tell a person with addiction to "stop" or a clinically depressed person to "stop" than you can tell a person with cancer to stop.

 

Here is the Open Letter I posted on my FB last night:

 

Link to letter

 

 

 

 

 

[LizzyBee]

I'm not sure why I'm in the minority here, but I hear chatter about mental illness all the time. Its in the media, all over social media, we all know people who suffer from it, I'm finding it hard to believe that people are unaware of the seriousness of depression and that we need more awareness raised. it may be because I'm outside of the US, but my perception is very different from what I'm reading on this thread. I've known lots of folks with depression and who use meds to manage it.

 

I was thinking the same thing, and I am in the US.  My perception is not lack of awareness, but lack of good treatment options.  We have a young friend who recently was admitted to UNC-Chapel Hill, because it's the best in our area.  It was horrible horrible awful.  Dirty room, poor treatment.  He was better off at home with just his parents and meds.

[Guest inoubliable]

nm 

 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Moderator
Next time, express the passion without the rudeness.

[kahlanne]

Would you call someone with cancer selfish?

Asthma?

Heart disease?

 

They all "affect those around them". They all consume family time, energy, other resources. They destroy families.

Depression is an ILLNESS. Their brains are not working right. He had no "choice" - his brain was diseased. You can no more tell a person with addiction to "stop" or a clinically depressed person to "stop" than you can tell a person with cancer to stop.

 

Here is the Open Letter I posted on my FB last night:

 

Link to letter

 

I can't open the link. Will try again on other computer. Until then let me answer your question. It depends. Cancer from smoking after it was discovered that smoking leads to cancer, yes. It is the actions or choices that I am saying is selfish. Robin William's depression or mental illness was not selfish but his choice to end his life while he may not have thought so at the time is a selfish act. IMO. I don't think everyone has to agree with me. In fact, I think it is better to have differing viewpoints so we can better understand how it affects everyone but the ones with the illness and the family or friends. Yes, depression is an ILLNESS but suicide isn't. Suicide is a choice or action made because of the depression.Back to my family, my cousin that stabbed his wife to death because he was clinically depressed and she told him she was leaving him with the kids was a choice. The depression, his mental illness, and his history shaped his choice but didn't change the fact that he committed murder and took a human's life that left a hole in so many lives including his children. Now can I sympathize with the life he was given? Yes. Did he have an illness? Yes. Was his illness every bit as bad as cancer or any other disease? Yes. Was it his fault? No but the murder was. Could he just stop? Not sure. I cannot imagine saying the act of murder is unstoppable. Yet if there ever was a case, I understand how messed up in his mind he was. Yet in the end he had a choice and chose murder for similar reasons to suicide. His mind was not allowing him to see reality.  Btw, he was released from a mental institute the day of the murder for suicidal actions. Am I saying Robin's suicide is equal to murder. NOOOOOO! Am I making light of the disease? Absolutely not! I know it is not a simple just stop. Youre correct, it affects everyone. The brain is diseased but  the disease isn't suicide. I was hoping that by putting out another viewpoint it would make people see all sides even the ones we disagree with. I don't want anyone to think I am making light of the disease or the difficulty in treating, coping, or even getting the help you need. I cannot imagine the depths of dis pare  you must feel to take another life or your own. I can only speak of my own point of view from a bystander of mental illness, depression, and suicide. Again, I don't think Robin Williams should be defined by suicide but by his life as a whole. From all  appearances he was a great man that had many blessings but also many struggles.

 

 

 

[candicane]

I don't think it'll change anything. A lot of people, not all, have a self-centered viewpoint in life, and they won't or don't notice what's going on with someone until it's ultimately too late. Too many say "I'll be there for you" but they really aren't in the end.

With this, well, all I see is a bit for maybe a week and then life will go on, and people will start caring about something else. It's disheartening for sure, but that's how people are. They live in the there and now, and don't care much past that.

 

All one can hope for I guess is that the person suffering reaches out to the right person, and gets the right help.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

There aren't always two sides, and it's not always time to talk about all of it, anyway. Say what you will about the unexamined life. Sometimes the way we get through life is to believe and hope the best and not examine, just keep going another day. It's not always good to listen to uninformed judgment, even if people try to disguise it as nice, understanding, open-minded, good for dialogue -- some dialogue sucks. Sometimes it's OK to turn away. Sometimes that's the only healthy response, to just turn off the noise and go back to what we KNOW and what really helps.

 

On this particular topic, if my friends here need to envision me as Puddleglum burning my marsh-wiggle feet stomping out the noxious air, then think that. Let's stamp it out. Stamp out judgmental phrases, second guessing, motives attributed, name-calling. STOMP. STOMP. Clear the air.

 

In the clear air with clear minds and loving hearts, go back to yesterday, able to lovingly and genuinely grieve while holding Robin Williams in the light, able to surround ourselves and our friends with love and light and believing and hoping the best at all times, as friends do.

 

We're still mourning a friend. Nothing but love. Nothing but light.

[mommymilkies]

nm 

 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Moderator
Next time, disagree without name-calling.

[Guest inoubliable]

I wish you could see my viewpoint as valid if different from yours.  It isn't a black and white issue. Btw I think rock bottom is just that. Rock Bottom. It isn't necessarily a place of no other choice. You had another choice and thankfully you chose it. You got the help you needed. You couldn't do it on your own but that is perfectly fine. I hope that many more will get the help they need.I hope that the treatment of mental illness will get better. I hope that people on this board doesn't think I am callus to mental illness or depression because I am not. I just disagree that the only way to be right is to view it from a person who has mental illness or depression. Or that by disagreeing with a person who suffers from the illness it justifies being cursed at.

 

 I  urge you to google the definition of rock bottom. And I didn't have a choice. I knew I didn't. I didn't choose to be here today. Trust me. I had a plan and had to surrender that to the authorities. I had to have other people step in and take that course of action away from me. 

 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Moderator
Edited: left the point, removed the attack.

[Guest inoubliable]

KK, are you back home again?

 

Many of us have been very worried about you. :grouphug:

 

I'm home. I missed a dose of one of my meds last week. It's being straightened out now. I'll be better in a few days. 

 

All this talk about RW is so upsetting. :(

 

Depression/Bipolar is the disease.

Suicide is a symptom. 

Life events can aggravate the symptom. 

But there's no "choice" in a symptom. 

 

Like a woman in group once put it. 

Cystic Fibrosis is the disease.

Increased mucous is a symptom.

Cigarette smoke can aggravate the symptom.

But there is no "choice" in the symptom. 

 

 

One of my symptoms is out of control, being exacerbated by life events and missing a crucial dose of one of my mood stabilizers. I don't have a choice in the symptom. 

[bzymom]

To be in such pain you can.not.be. in your skin for one more moment is not a choice.

 

And KK, please know I have been thinking of you and wishing and hoping for some peace for you, and I will continue to.

[Joanne]

I am very sorry for you. I wish there was something I could do for you and all that suffer. While I have been depressed, I can't imagine the level you are at or what you go through. However I am speaking from a bystander that is affected by the actions of someone that has mental illness. I could never speak from your point of view. For this I am thankful. You could never speak from my point of view. Even if you have experienced it firsthand as a bystander, how it affects you will be your own experience. How you view it will be your own. Just as mine is mine. Even though I may disagree with you on some points, I completely understand your viewpoint as valid.I wish you could see my viewpoint as valid if different from yours.  It isn't a black and white issue. Btw I think rock bottom is just that. Rock Bottom. It isn't necessarily a place of no other choice. You had another choice and thankfully you chose it. You got the help you needed. You couldn't do it on your own but that is perfectly fine. I hope that many more will get the help they need.I hope that the treatment of mental illness will get better. I hope that people on this board doesn't think I am callus to mental illness or depression because I am not. I just disagree that the only way to be right is to view it from a person who has mental illness or depression. Or that by disagreeing with a person who suffers from the illness it justifies being cursed at.

 

This is the mindset/thought that keeps research from being done and from adequate treatment from being developed.

 

Have you never heard of aggressive forms of cancer? Treatment resistant disease? Diabetics that lose their limbs?

 

RW's depression was an aggressive form; the symptom was that he took his life. It was no more a *choice* than someone's cancer not being eradicated by treatment.

 

It's quite accurate that some people suffer with depression and never take their lives. They don't "chose" either - their disease simply manifests that way - the same way some diabetics lose limbs and some don't. Some people survive breast cancer; some don't.

 

RW died not by choice, but because the stigma and misinformation and myths and judgment around the diseases of mental illness prevent adequate treatment and research.

 

People with fully functioning brains don't kill themselves.

[Joanne]

 

 

Here is the cut and paste letter:

 

Open Letter to Those Who Don’t Know,

 

Robin Williams didn’t die of suicide. (and Philip Seymor Hoffman didn’t die by overdose.) What these gentlemen died of were symptoms – symptoms of their diseases.

 

Mental illness is just that: ILLNESS. Something was wrong with, malfunctioning in their brain chemistry. They were not weak, not spiritually sick, not selfish.

 

They each suffered from a chronic, relapsing brain disease. Brain diseases that are one of the most prevalent, yet the most under funded, under researched, and under treated.

 

If either of these men had cancer, their relapse would be met with care, kindness, and solicitations for funds to identify, treat, and prevent their diseases.

 

But depression, and addiction and other mental health issues are given lip service as “illnesses†and “disease†but the meaning behind that is superficial. It’s not backed with legislation, protection, research for evidence based treatment delivered at the time of need. We throw platitudes and scripts at them, and hope they’ll go to meetings and STFU and get better.

 

Depressed people and addicts are messy; they make us angry and uncomfortable.

 

How many of you reading, when hearing of either of these deaths, did one google search to find out how YOU can help with seeking cures or treatment for these diseases?

 

The drugs that killed Philip and the action that killed Robin were simply symptoms of evil diseases in the context of a judgmental, ignorant society.

[Guest inoubliable]

And as for RW's death opening some sort of national dialogue about mental illness?

 

/snort

 

Over the weekend, the public was aghast at a 20 year's death on the race track, and then yesterday they were alarmed and angry at an unarmed black kid's death at the hand of the police, and today it's RW and Lauren Bacall. Tomorrow it'll be something else. We can't even talk about Israel/Gaza for more than a week before something else pops. 

[albeto.]

 

 

 

 

 

I am so sad that this world lost another seemingly great person. I feel bad for Robin Williams that he had an illness that caused him to take his own life. I cannot fathom the depth of despair he must have felt to do so. Still I can't help but disagree with several people here, respectfully of course. I have family members that have committed suicides. Matter of fact my cousin lost her life to a car accident. Within a year her daughter committed suicide in front of the school bus with her brother on it. Within a year the same brother found his father dead from a suicide. Fast forward nearly 20 yrs and the son committed a horrible murder of his wife leaving his two children without either parent. It is devastating to say the least. What my cousin's son did, murder, was because of mental illness.

What a terrible series of events your family has experienced. It's a shame to see the glaring absence of such a clearly needed field of study, neurology, and the application of such study when people need it most. Your entire posts illustrates this need, and so I hope the moderators will allow this post, and the subsequent comments, to stand. It's the physiological equivalent conversation to challenging the ancient explanation that earthquakes are caused by a lack of sufficient worship of the gods.

 

 

Suffering from mental illness didn't make it any less devastating or selfish and not murder.

I think you're misunderstanding "selfish" here. There is nothing remotely selfish about suicide. Most humans have an innate instinct for preserving life. Most people will do whatever they can to preserve their life, even when great pain and suffering is involved. When someone doesn't have that instinct to the same extent another does, or when someone overcomes that instinct in order to end an otherwise inescapable, constant pain, this isn't a matter of selfishness. It may be a matter of self-protection, or it may simply be a neurological glitch whereby irrational thought processes govern decision making processes. In either case, it's no more "selfish" than Celiac disease is "selfish" because others in an immediate family can expect a change in diet they didn't sign up for, even if the inconvenience creates a difficult adjustment period.

 

 

It was a result of his illness but the outcome was the same. Now I am not by any means saying that Robin Williams or my cousin's daughter or husband's actions are equivalent to murder. Please don't misunderstand me. I am saying that their actions were equally devastating and selfish in regards to the people left behind.

I see you make a connection very clearly, then state you're not making it. The connection you're making is, "suicide is essentially the same as murder, at least to the survivors." Your assurance that you're not saying this is not so persuasive.

 

 

ecause of their illness they saw no other way. They obviously were misguided enough at the time to believe that they were not acting selfishly. I know them. They didn't do it to cause more harm to their relatives. They hit rock bottom and thought it best for everyone and couldn't see the reality of others clearly. Now do I think all people believe they are acting unselfishly? No, some intend on causing maximum pain to the left behind but many cases they truly don't feel selfish. Even so, suicide is an  act that many times is unintentionally selfish.

This is where I see your argument to be the equivalent of rallying up the crowds to pay homage to the gods in order to avoid the next devastating earthquake. Yours is an old, time-honored theory, but ultimately one born out of experiential and superstitious thinking. By this I mean that the argument is based on the premise that all experiences are more or less the same (conveniently similar to the one providing the argument), and based on the idea that one has what has been traditionally understood as free will. Factual information has been chipping away at these explanations, just like it had chipped away at the explanation that correlates the earth's rumble with angry gods. As real and logical as it may seem to any given person, the facts simply don't bear this out. The facts simply present a very different story. Those who insist on advocating the old explanations will undoubtedly cause painful wounds to open, wounds that survivors don't need any help re-opening. Your "encouragement," as I can only imagine you mean your comment to serve, is the modern day equivalent of blaming the mother whose child died under the rubble of falling rocks for not appeasing the gods well enough. It's more than an awkward connection, it is, frankly, insensitive and cruel. I don't expect you mean it this way, but if the reactions to your post surprise you, I hope that helps explain things.

 

 

I have never met a relative of a suicide that was relieved their loved one made that choice even after the shock and mourning is over.

I find this an odd and awkward comment. I find it odd because I suspect most people agree with you. I find it awkward, uncomfortably so, because some undoubtedly do know and love someone who is in utter, inconsolable, constant pain. No one wants to see their loved ones die, but there should be no additional guilt placed on someone for feeling some measure of relief knowing their loved one suffers no more.

 

 

With a clear head unhindered by depression and mental illness, we can see the true outcome of suicide, our lifetime without the one we love. Again I am not making light of depression or mental illness. I believe there is a great chance for everyone to celebrate Robin William's life but also openly discuss every aspect of mental illness, depression, and suicide.

I hope with each discussion that outdated, harmful explanations are constantly called out as being just that. I hope people realize the value of relying on objective data rather than one person's opinion to explain reality. I hope each comment about "choice" and "selfishness" with regard to crippling depression is routinely stomped out and replaced with multiple comments about the physiology of the disease, and the necessity of developing coping strategies for those for whom medical intervention does is not successful.

 

 

My discussing his choice to commit suicide doesn't nullify what a great man he seemed to be nor the outstanding actor he was. My saying it is selfish doesn't nullify what I think of him as a person. I can say he committed a selfish act possibly with unselfish intentions because of a debilitating disease while still being in awe of him as a man. His suicide is only one part of his life as a whole. He was so much more than that. Right now he is being defined by many by his last choice but I do see many that are honoring his previous choices from acting to humanitarian acts. Now I would like to address the Mark guy's post. I actually did share it along with many other posts that had to do with honoring Robin. I think he has some valid points. I don't agree with everything he said but for the most part, I do think Robin made a choice. He could have chosen differently. Granted his body/brain didn't allow him to see the other choices as valid options. This doesn't make it any less a choice. To label it otherwise I think does give the false impression that if you hit rock bottom with depression you have no other choice. I want everyone to know there are other options. It may not feel like it. You may not be able to see it. Others may not even recognize the signs but there are other choices. There is help out there. Hopefully Robin Williams death will help people to see that depression can happen to anyone.

Your comfort and advice are ill fitting as they are based on faulty assumptions of what is true, and completely ignores what we do, as a matter of fact, know what is true.

 

 

I hope that in talking about depression and mental illness, people will be open and honest and accepting of all viewpoints.

Again. I disagree. Not all viewpoints are valid. Some are insensitive, some are just ignorant, some are inadvertently mean and cruel. There's no more reason to accept mean and cruel viewpoints, and a society that values people ought to be encouraged to recognize just how to illustrate that value.

 

 

While I may disagree with some of the posters that hated Matt's blog post, I think it is great to have another viewpoint whether Matt's naysayers or lovers.  Mental illness not only affects the one with the illness but everyone around them. No two people will have the exact same reaction or views on the subject but by learning as much as possible about it and being open to all sides, hopefully we can help those that need it the most.

 

Sadly, I think KK is spot on when she mentions this topic of conversation will be replaced soon enough in our communities. For those who suffer, or care for loved ones who suffer however, the conversation is not over. It never will be over. I admit that I look forward to seeing this conversation take on points of actual facts, led by experts in the study of neurology rather than paid entertainers and their archaic beliefs in the years to come. Like the conversations about earthquakes and other fields of study, human behavior is another field of study in which no one has ever successfully claimed that archaic beliefs based on superstitious thinking provides better explanations than knowing and applying actual facts.

Edited August 13, 2014 by albeto.

[Joanne]

It won't change a thing. Not when Matt Walsh says:

 

 

t happen tot attack you like cancer or descend upon you like a tornado. It is a decision made by an individual. A bad decision. Always a bad decision.
Read more at http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/08/12/robin-williams-didnt-die-disease-died-choice/#Y6yZg4hXUX0eg6MC.99

 

Also, incidents like this give us an opportunity to talk about depression, and we certainly should.  Only we shouldn’t turn the subject into a purely cold, clinical matter. “Chemical imbalances,†people say. “A man is depressed because of his brain chemicals, and for no other reason.â€

t to say that a depressed person is evil or weak, just that his depression is deeper and more profound than a simple matter of disproportioned brain chemicals.

 

Until we stop thinking of depression (or addiction) as a spiritual issue, just as we do not frame cancer, diabetes, asthma or arthritis that way, we will continue to under fund and over judge those who suffer.

 

And guess what? That means more dead people, and before they die, more suffering family members. MW should be so proud to perpetuate the dishealth.

 

[Corraleno]

I do think Robin made a choice. He could have chosen differently. Granted his body/brain didn't allow him to see the other choices as valid options. This doesn't make it any less a choice. To label it otherwise I think does give the false impression that if you hit rock bottom with depression you have no other choice. I want everyone to know there are other options. It may not feel like it. You may not be able to see it. Others may not even recognize the signs but there are other choices.

 

You do not understand the nature of the illness. Saying he "made a choice" is like saying that someone who is physically incapable of swallowing makes a "choice" not to eat, or that someone whose lungs do not function makes a choice not to breathe. Some people get to a point where they are just physically incapable of living, and so they stop living. 

 

The thing is, to a person in the deepest depths of this kind of depression, they don't think they're ill or delusional, they think they are seeing life, the reality of life, for what it is — nothing but unbearable pain, suffering, and dysfunction.

 

Imagine for a moment that you were on another planet, where life was really like that, and that the only people who could walk around and function were the ones whose bodies made special chemicals that blinded them to the pain and suffering around them — they were really the delusional ones. Well, that's the planet that some people live on every day. And they look around at those who can walk through life and ignore all the pain and suffering and not feel it, not be utterly overcome and drowned by it, and while they may envy people for whom that is a natural state, they assume that's a kind of life they will never have. Because even if you give in and take the drugs, you still know that you are drugged, that you're just going through the motions, masking the pain and pretending the suffering and misery aren't there. 

 

Some people — many people — can take the medications and be happy, or at least content, with the life that provides for them. For many people, the depression is only temporary anyway, a response to a particular event or trauma, and the meds get them through until their own chemistry rebalances. 

 

But for some people, who see the world in ways that others don't, and feel things more deeply and painfully than others do, when you add severe chemical imbalances to that, the drugs just aren't enough. The idea that there's always another "choice," there's always a way to "fix" things that would allow a normal life if only the person will "get help," is just not true for everyone.

 

Would you call a cancer patient, who is in so much pain that drugs barely make a difference, who begs to be allowed to die, selfish for not wanting to hang on for years, in unbearable pain, so their relatives don't have to suffer from missing them after they're gone? No, of course not — if anything, you would call the relatives selfish. Suicides are no different.

[SeaConquest]

I am so sad that this world lost another seemingly great person. I feel bad for Robin Williams that he had an illness that caused him to take his own life. I cannot fathom the depth of despair he must have felt to do so. Still I can't help but disagree with several people here, respectfully of course. I have family members that have committed suicides. Matter of fact my cousin lost her life to a car accident. Within a year her daughter committed suicide in front of the school bus with her brother on it. Within a year the same brother found his father dead from a suicide. Fast forward nearly 20 yrs and the son committed a horrible murder of his wife leaving his two children without either parent. It is devastating to say the least. What my cousin's son did, murder, was because of mental illness. Suffering from mental illness didn't make it any less devastating or selfish and not murder. It was a result of his illness but the outcome was the same. Now I am not by any means saying that Robin Williams or my cousin's daughter or husband's actions are equivalent to murder. Please don't misunderstand me. I am saying that their actions were equally devastating and selfish in regards to the people left behind. Because of their illness they saw no other way. They obviously were misguided enough at the time to believe that they were not acting selfishly. I know them. They didn't do it to cause more harm to their relatives. They hit rock bottom and thought it best for everyone and couldn't see the reality of others clearly. Now do I think all people believe they are acting unselfishly? No, some intend on causing maximum pain to the left behind but many cases they truly don't feel selfish. Even so, suicide is an  act that many times is unintentionally selfish. I have never met a relative of a suicide that was relieved their loved one made that choice even after the shock and mourning is over. With a clear head unhindered by depression and mental illness, we can see the true outcome of suicide, our lifetime without the one we love. Again I am not making light of depression or mental illness. I believe there is a great chance for everyone to celebrate Robin William's life but also openly discuss every aspect of mental illness, depression, and suicide. My discussing his choice to commit suicide doesn't nullify what a great man he seemed to be nor the outstanding actor he was. My saying it is selfish doesn't nullify what I think of him as a person. I can say he committed a selfish act possibly with unselfish intentions because of a debilitating disease while still being in awe of him as a man. His suicide is only one part of his life as a whole. He was so much more than that. Right now he is being defined by many by his last choice but I do see many that are honoring his previous choices from acting to humanitarian acts. Now I would like to address the Mark guy's post. I actually did share it along with many other posts that had to do with honoring Robin. I think he has some valid points. I don't agree with everything he said but for the most part, I do think Robin made a choice. He could have chosen differently. Granted his body/brain didn't allow him to see the other choices as valid options. This doesn't make it any less a choice. To label it otherwise I think does give the false impression that if you hit rock bottom with depression you have no other choice. I want everyone to know there are other options. It may not feel like it. You may not be able to see it. Others may not even recognize the signs but there are other choices. There is help out there. Hopefully Robin Williams death will help people to see that depression can happen to anyone. I hope that in talking about depression and mental illness, people will be open and honest and accepting of all viewpoints. While I may disagree with some of the posters that hated Matt's blog post, I think it is great to have another viewpoint whether Matt's naysayers or lovers.  Mental illness not only affects the one with the illness but everyone around them. No two people will have the exact same reaction or views on the subject but by learning as much as possible about it and being open to all sides, hopefully we can help those that need it the most.

 

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about and need to just stop. This stuff is triggering enough without having to read through this kind of drivel on a homeschooling board.

 

I didn't choose to leave a successful career as a litigator, friends, family, and two children who love me, $1.3 million in condos and a Porsche because attempting suicide sounded like a better option. I tried to kill myself because my mind was a raging inferno of hopelessness and despair -- because the tornado swirling inside my head could not comprehend that there were sunny days just around the corner. I felt that, despite all evidence to the contrary, the world would be a better place without me in it. I pray that you never know that kind of agony.

 

The worst part is, I know that I will feel this way again, likely many more times in my life. Because I have a chronic illness that will never go away. It can only be managed, and sometimes not very well. Statistically, I have somewhere between a 25-50% chance of killing myself -- likely on the higher end since I have already tried before. Those are not comforting odds, and they are certainly not something anyone would choose to face.

[Corraleno]

SeaConquest, thank you for being brave enough to share your story. :grouphug:

 

People who have never been in that place really have NO IDEA what it's like. It's like someone who's never been out of the US telling a refugee who's barely surviving in a camp in Darfur that if they just drink more water and eat healthier food, they'll feel so much better, and that "choosing" to starve is just so selfish.  :banghead:

[FaithManor]

SeaConquest, thank you for being brave enough to share your story. :grouphug:

 

People who have never been in that place really have NO IDEA what it's like. It's like someone who's never been out of the US telling a refugee who's barely surviving in a camp in Darfur that if they just drink more water and eat healthier food, they'll feel so much better, and that "choosing" to starve is just so selfish.  :banghead:

Well said! Thank you.

 

All my love to those who are struggling. Please hang on. You are precious!

[Elfknitter.#]

I am so sad that this world lost another seemingly great person. I feel bad for Robin Williams that he had an illness that caused him to take his own life. I cannot fathom the depth of despair he must have felt to do so. Still I can't help but disagree with several people here, respectfully of course. I have family members that have committed suicides. Matter of fact my cousin lost her life to a car accident. Within a year her daughter committed suicide in front of the school bus with her brother on it. Within a year the same brother found his father dead from a suicide. Fast forward nearly 20 yrs and the son committed a horrible murder of his wife leaving his two children without either parent. It is devastating to say the least. What my cousin's son did, murder, was because of mental illness. Suffering from mental illness didn't make it any less devastating or selfish and not murder. It was a result of his illness but the outcome was the same. Now I am not by any means saying that Robin Williams or my cousin's daughter or husband's actions are equivalent to murder. Please don't misunderstand me. I am saying that their actions were equally devastating and selfish in regards to the people left behind. Because of their illness they saw no other way. They obviously were misguided enough at the time to believe that they were not acting selfishly. I know them. They didn't do it to cause more harm to their relatives. They hit rock bottom and thought it best for everyone and couldn't see the reality of others clearly. Now do I think all people believe they are acting unselfishly? No, some intend on causing maximum pain to the left behind but many cases they truly don't feel selfish. Even so, suicide is an act that many times is unintentionally selfish. I have never met a relative of a suicide that was relieved their loved one made that choice even after the shock and mourning is over. With a clear head unhindered by depression and mental illness, we can see the true outcome of suicide, our lifetime without the one we love. Again I am not making light of depression or mental illness. I believe there is a great chance for everyone to celebrate Robin William's life but also openly discuss every aspect of mental illness, depression, and suicide. My discussing his choice to commit suicide doesn't nullify what a great man he seemed to be nor the outstanding actor he was. My saying it is selfish doesn't nullify what I think of him as a person. I can say he committed a selfish act possibly with unselfish intentions because of a debilitating disease while still being in awe of him as a man. His suicide is only one part of his life as a whole. He was so much more than that. Right now he is being defined by many by his last choice but I do see many that are honoring his previous choices from acting to humanitarian acts. Now I would like to address the Mark guy's post. I actually did share it along with many other posts that had to do with honoring Robin. I think he has some valid points. I don't agree with everything he said but for the most part, I do think Robin made a choice. He could have chosen differently. Granted his body/brain didn't allow him to see the other choices as valid options. This doesn't make it any less a choice. To label it otherwise I think does give the false impression that if you hit rock bottom with depression you have no other choice. I want everyone to know there are other options. It may not feel like it. You may not be able to see it. Others may not even recognize the signs but there are other choices. There is help out there. Hopefully Robin Williams death will help people to see that depression can happen to anyone. I hope that in talking about depression and mental illness, people will be open and honest and accepting of all viewpoints. While I may disagree with some of the posters that hated Matt's blog post, I think it is great to have another viewpoint whether Matt's naysayers or lovers. Mental illness not only affects the one with the illness but everyone around them. No two people will have the exact same reaction or views on the subject but by learning as much as possible about it and being open to all sides, hopefully we can help those that need it the most.

Read this.

 

http://www.blogher.com/what-suicide-isn-t-rip-robin-williams?page=0%2C0