Help please--dd10 hates math!

[AnneJ]

This is our first year homeschooling and she is in 4th grade. She was using Saxon at the school where she was attending so I just continued with that. So she has been working in Saxon 54. She is not having any problems understanding the lesson and gets most of the problems correct (a couple missed due to careless mistakes). She says she hates it because it takes so long (it will sometimes take her over 1 1/2 hours to get 1 lesson done). We have been working on having the lessons take an hour or less and are making progress but she has such a bad attitude about it and dreads doing math every day. I am willing to look at other math programs should that be necessary, but I also want her to learn to work diligently with a good attitude doing things she doesn't necessarily like to do.

 

Any advice?

[ilovemy4kids]

I am a math major and a product of Saxon Math used by my public school system. Saxon is a good program but it is very boring. With my children we are using Singapore and it is great. The lessons are short, require the children to think "outside the box" (I do despise that phrase but it is applicable here) and it is a very solid math program. You can read what Mrs. Bauer says about it in TWTM. Just my two cents.

Sandra

[Chris in VA]

Well, not advice, exactly, but I will say that Saxon 54 is supposed to be a big change from the earlier years. There's the copying of the problems, for one thing.

Could you possibly lessen the time by either copying them ahead of time for her, or letting her write some in the book? I know that won't work with some of the problems.

Saxon does say that it's important to do all the problems, but I know of some who don't. Not sure how to advise, but perhaps the copying thing will help.

[KristineIN]

We use Saxon, but I do not require all of the problems. We do every other as long as I know dd is understanding them. Mainly for review. New concepts I just try and make sure she understands and if not, quiz her on my own.

 

Kristine

[PeterPan]

Are you cutting back on the problems or making her do all of them? Are her facts fast? If she's struggling through her facts, that would make the bigger stuff that use them slower. You could use a Math Shark or Flashmaster, Calculadders, or the free online software called Basic Math Facts Worksheet Generator. Even MUS has a free worksheet generator.

 

My dd is 3rd grade and really maxes out emotionally at 40 minutes. I try to keep it a bit shorter, more in the 30-35 range these days. I could see 40-45 for 4th grade, but I wouldn't go longer than that. I'd also consider breaking it into stages, doing 30 minutes in the morning and 10-15 in the afternoon. I haven't had my dd do that, simply because I'm too scatterbrained to actually get that 2nd half done. If I were more organized and were going to get it done, it's definitely what I'd do.

 

My dd will be doing the BJU5 book next year, which has the students writing, like it sounds like Saxon does. Sounds like that's going to add time to it too, which I hadn't considered. If the book is affordable, I may let her write in it, like the others suggested. We'll just have to see. With BJU, you have the student text and several optional workbooks, so you can tailor the amount of practice, review, challenging problems, etc. to exactly what they need. I really like the BJU math conceptually and think it's especially nice for a girl, anyone who's visual or appreciates a pleasant approach. Might be one to consider. Since she's used Saxon so far though, seems like just tweaking how you're using it could make a huge difference. Like I said, I'd take it down further, all the way to say 45 minutes daily. If it's taking her too long, she may need more fact drill. Did you ask her if the school teachers always had her do ALL the problems, or if they skipped some?

[Sue G in PA]

We went from doing just odd/evens to doing ALL the problems so he wouldn't MISS anything, back to odds/evens and now he does ALL the problems. It takes time, IMHO. Many have posted that Saxon 5/4 is a transitional year b/c of the concepts and the format. If she's doing well w/ it...don't switch just yet. Give her the year. I am starting to supplement Saxon w/ Singapore Challenging Word Problems b/c I feel Saxon is lacking in problem solving. My ds9 also has difficulty remembering his facts, so I'm also starting to do Saxon 4 days each week with the 5th for drill, math games, etc. that will help cement his facts. Otherwise, he'll be toast next year when it gets even harder!

[mcconnellboys]

I second this suggestion!

 

Regena

[Stirsmommy]

My daughter is older but we started her in Saxon when we started homeschooling almost two years ago. She was already hating math at PS and thought she was a math idiot and that is why she hated it. Well Saxon made her hate it more and she began dreading math time and was getting a bad attitude. When we started going to the coop for art i was talking about her attitude towards math and another mother said "Oh you are using Saxon?" She had had the same thing with her dd. She let me try out her daughter's math TT on my daughter and immediately my dd said "I like this". Math has become her favorite. So i firmly believe that the curriculum has to match the kid. I know friends who swear by saxon which is why I got it. But for us it just wasn't the right choice. I think only you can best decide what will work for you and her. I know for me it is hard if I can't see something. I also like to get some input from dd (not that she has final say) because I now know what will happen if it is a really bad fit for her.

Melissa

[AnneJ]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Here is more info:

 

We currently only do math 4 days a week (we do art and music on Fridays). Yes, I make her do all of the problems. She has her multiplication facts down, the division ones take her a little longer.

 

I would like to get her to have her math done in 45 minutes or less. I chose an hour initially since that was a more reasonable goal considering how long it had been taking.

[Crissy]

Could you possibly lessen the time by either copying them ahead of time for her, or letting her write some in the book? I know that won't work with some of the problems.

.

 

I still do this for my 9yo, and it really cuts down on the frustration level he feels over *doing* the math.

He knows how to do all the work, and he's actually quite good at math, but all that copy work brings him to tears!

Additionally, we do a fair amount orally. When there are sets of problems that he can do mentally, he is not required to write at all.

 

Another thing we've done this year that has lightened his attitude tremendously is to declare every Friday Fun Math Friday. We do lessons Monday through Thursday and play math related games for an hour or so on Friday.

 

What a difference in his math studies this year!

[Mel]

You can do a free online diagnostic test to determine what level he should begin at and they are very simple to use - not too many problems - if so, just cut down. We enjoyed using them & may use them again for some subjects next year.

[oakmom]

If Saxon is sucking the joy out of math for your child, I think it would be best to switch programs. There are so many great programs available. I would also consider supplementing with some books and games suggested at http://www.livingmath.net for a while to bring the joy back to her math learning or even using living books and games exclusively for a while. I wouldn't risk a child growing to dislike math because of a program that she dislikes. It is too exciting a subject with so many great applications.

[Guest]

What does TT stand for? Teaching Textbooks? We are using Saxon 5/4 as well. My biggest problem is my oldest won't read the lesson! Then he makes TONS of errors because of it. Math takes 2 hours. Both my guys hate the warmup part. I think it is a good solid program, though.

My second guy does fine with it as long as I copy the problems for him. He is a young 9yr old. I am considering switching programs but we have tried so many already.

One of my Dad's famous sayings is :"There are lots of things in life we don't want to do but we do it anyway.". My kids hate it when I quote GranDad but it is true. Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and slug through.

[claire up north]

I know that my ds9 really doesn't like math much, largely because it is so much work and it takes a long time compared to his other subjects. That said, though, I really do try to make it as palatable as possible. You've already gotten some good suggestions: don't try to do all the problems; don't make him copy all the problems himself; don't belabour the topics he's already mastered.

 

I respect the point of view that sometimes you just have to buckle down and do the stuff you don't like. This is so true, but I would strongly suggest not adopting this attitude with math. Math is one of those subjects that never gets easier and never stops. When I think of the "buckle down" activities, I think of ones that have a definitive end point--like an essay paper or a science project or something.

 

I know no one is suggesting that you hard-heartedly ignore the legitimate complaints of your son. Similiarly, I am not suggesting that you bend over backwards to make math just one big barrel of fun, fun fun! But I do think that, at least for me, I am willing to go to extra lengths to make math as least torturesome as possible. I want my kiddos to work diligently at math for the next, oh, 15 or so years, so I am less likely to expect them to just buckle down and do it.

 

Just some food for thought...

[AnneJ]

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to start copying some of the problems for her, eliminate a few that she knows really well, and maybe divide her math into 2 sessions so she feels like she has gotten more accomplished. I've also ordered the MUS demonstration dvd to what that is all about. If you have more suggestions, I am more than willing to listen.

 

Thanks again!!

[Robin Hood]

I had to teach myself how to cut the lesson down to keep my dd interest. That was a hard lesson for me. And I did get it down to 1/2 hour.

[mcconnellboys]

We do math four days a week with Singapore, also. We have no problem covering our math in about half that time, so could add in other things (we add in another program, but you could add in more from extra practice books, etc.) So I still think this would work well for you,

 

Regena

[OceanBreeze]

I afterschool my daughter in math with Saxon 54. I love math and so does she, and I thought I'd share how we do it. We cuddle together on the couch or bed. I read through the lesson with her and work through the example problems. Then I write out the problems for her and she does them while I watch over her. Sometimes I leave her to do a few and then come back. Sometimes she writes out the problems on a white board (more fun than on paper). She is in third grade, but I really wouldn't expect her to sit by herself for half an hour doing 30 problems for at least another couple of years. I happen to like Saxon for its continued revisiting of math concepts. I used Right Start up until we started Saxon 54, because I liked the way it approached math (very similar to Singapore).

 

Jenelle

[mom2abcd]

If Saxon is sucking the joy out of math for your child, I think it would be best to switch programs. There are so many great programs available. I would also consider supplementing with some books and games suggested at http://www.livingmath.net for a while to bring the joy back to her math learning or even using living books and games exclusively for a while. I wouldn't risk a child growing to dislike math because of a program that she dislikes. It is too exciting a subject with so many great applications.

 

I agree. I have a similar story to the OP. We brought dd out for 4th grade and stayed with Saxon (54). She put up with it the first year, but the next year she couldn't bear the thought of Saxon again. I let her take the tests and she tested out of 65 with 90% or better on the tests! We started 76, but even the honor of working ahead didn't appease her.

 

We tried Lial's Basic College Math, but it was too much for a 10-11 year old. We ended up with a boring year of Spectrum 7. Then THIS YEAR... we're doing Teaching Textbooks (TT's) Pre-Algebra. She loves it! I love it that she likes math again and it's so much less stress on me.

 

TT has TT6 out and that might be what your dd is ready for. I know our dd did 54, then another year of misc. and now TT Pre-Algebra.

 

I'm against kids hating math:o) So I've done my best to get them a good match. I recommend switching out of Saxon. Ds8 is in BJU and we're happy with that. (Used Horizons and Singapore and weren't.)

 

HTH.

[Lizzie in Ma]

We had used Rod and Staff through 4th. I hated Saxon in school so I didn't even consider it. I made the switch to Christian Light Education math and while it is still not her favorite subject, I have seen her actually smile doing it.

You can write directly in the workbooks, it is fairly self teaching, and there is a little bit of a lot of different things in each lessons. It is never too much and I don't have to tweak it at all. It is quite rigorous and thorough.