Heather in VA Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I spend all day at a homeschool convention and still have no spelling. I hate spelling. My daughter just turned 11. We've done a variety of things. She spells pretty well but she's starting to make what I call 'advanced spelling mistakes' so I feel like we need to do some more spelling before calling it done. We've done SWR/AAS for a while. SWR was just too much and AAS was incredibly slow. It's a good program but just moved so slowly and cost a fortune to 'speed up'. I bought the Wise Guide a while back and started working through the word lists without a real program. It didn't really seem to do much. So I'm trying to stay away from the O/G/SWR stuff because it's just way more than I want at this point. At the convention today I saw Spelling You See. That didn't thrill me and it seemed pretty easy. I saw R&S and almost bought that but I know myself and even though I'm a Christian R&S products are over-Christian for me and I don't want 1/2 of her spelling words to be books of the Bible or other church words. I saw Sequential Spelling which actually seemed pretty interesting but the guy talked so fast and just handed me this workbook with a bunch of blank lines that didn't really help. Then he told me she would need to take a placement test so I'll have to do that if Sequential Spelling is the choice. I almost gave up and bought Spelling Workout. But then I kept thinking about all the posts I've seen hear about how useless it is. And I looked for Building Spelling Skills (Evan-Moor - not CLP) but Rainbow didn't have it in their booth - although they do sell it. I want something that is worthwhile and straightforward. Should I have gotten Sequential Spelling? Should I just get a workbook so it's something and figure that's good enough since she spells pretty well? Tell me what to do... I don't think I can think about spelling anymore LOL Thanks Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMWB Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I would take the placement exam for apples and pears - we really like it, she might be in the last book or done with the series if she is too advanced. You can also sample every page on line so you know what you are getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Well, I like Sequential Spelling. I'm sorry you had a bad experience at the convention. I can't speak to your experiences with other programs, but all you really need for Sequential Spelling is the teacher text and some notebook paper. I think there is a placement test on the Avko website. Oh, here it is: http://www.avko.org/free/Rough%20Placement%20Test%20for%20SS.pdf Good luck to you. I find spelling really frustrating too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Well, I like Sequential Spelling. I'm sorry you had a bad experience at the convention. I can't speak to your experiences with other programs, but all you really need for Sequential Spelling is the teacher text and some notebook paper. I think there is a placement test on the Avko website. Oh, here it is: http://www.avko.org/free/Rough%20Placement%20Test%20for%20SS.pdf Good luck to you. I find spelling really frustrating too. So if I just need notebook paper why was there a huge workbook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 So if I just need notebook paper why was there a huge workbook?The revised edition has some more traditional spelling workbook exercises with the words. I'm starting my 3rd grader with Spelling Workout this fall. They usually recommend that you start in level 1, but your older child can probably move through it faster. You can do without the workbook and just get the TM if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Spelling curricula make no difference in student daily spelling. They don't work. Does that stop me from obsessing over trying to beat the statistics? No! Good luck. When I get stressed, I stop, though. The chances are, I'm wasting my time. When i want free and quick, I use these lists. http://www.susancanthony.com/ws/_pdf/splhnd.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I don't have the revised edition, but in the edition I have, the workbook is just blank lines numbered to 25 where you right that days words. Each column is numbered for the day. I can't tell you what's is in the revised edition's workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Heather, if you already did SWR in the most boring, straightforward way and got no carryover, another boring workbook probably won't get more carryover either. Have you given her the diagnostic tests in SWR recently? What are her mastery and overall scores? Is there a big gap? That would tell you that more application would help. Dictation, lots of dictation. That's the main way we used SWR. I dictated the sentences from the Wise Guide to her, and I dictated literature. Pick up LotR or Hobbit or Pooh or something cool and do more dictation. Any time I did that our mastery and overall scores started closing up, meaning we were getting CARRYOVER, mastery, automaticity, use. Around that age we were doing a full page of dictation, like 45 minutes a day. Seriously. And when you do dictation, it gives you the chance to talk about the grammar, homophones, suffixes, that kind of thing. It all comes together, and it doesn't really matter what you dictate, so long as it's on their level and interesting. But you know that. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I found a peek inside the Sequential Spelling workbook: http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product_slideshow?sku=943075&actual_sku=943075&slide=2&action=Previous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingCat Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 What about Sequential Spelling for Adults? OhE, how did you correct mistakes on all that dictation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Sequential Spelling!!! You don't need the revised workbooks. I started using it before it was revised and bought by another company. I've used the workbooks. There's some good ideas in there for vocab and writing, but mainly just pointless if all you want is spelling. All you would need is the teacher guide and a student response book. http://www.rainbowresource.com/pictures/038474/79c235a4ccc8f12519e1e3c1 This is different than the revised student workbook. You don't need that, You don't need a DVD. You don't need an app. I prefer the old student response book, but you can use a plain notebook. The teacher guide of the daily lists, three colored dry erase markers, and a white board. All you need. Each day give the the child the pattern to work on, give the word, use it in a sentence, have the child spell it. They do it correctly...yay. They need help, then use your three colors to spell the word, using a different color for each part of the word, talk about any spelling rules or grammar that you may need to, use the dictionary for unfamiliar words....done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Sequential Spelling!!! You don't need the revised workbooks. I started using it before it was revised and bought by another company. I've used the workbooks. There's some good ideas in there for vocab and writing, but mainly just pointless if all you want is spelling. All you would need is the teacher guide and a student response book. http://www.rainbowresource.com/pictures/038474/79c235a4ccc8f12519e1e3c1 This is different than the revised student workbook. You don't need that, You don't need a DVD. You don't need an app. I prefer the old student response book, but you can use a plain notebook. The teacher guide of the daily lists, three colored dry erase markers, and a white board. All you need. Each day give the the child the pattern to work on, give the word, use it in a sentence, have the child spell it. They do it correctly...yay. They need help, then use your three colors to spell the word, using a different color for each part of the word, talk about any spelling rules or grammar that you may need to, use the dictionary for unfamiliar words....done. I agree. That's exactly how we use it, and I've no desire to add any extra busy work from the revised workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 What about Sequential Spelling for Adults? OhE, how did you correct mistakes on all that dictation? I didn't let her make mistakes. I read the sentence and then checked to make sure she knew how to spell every word. That's a fundamental tenant of SWR, that you only want them to see the word *correctly* written. I needed to turn on the part of her brain that could self-monitor and have a clue if she knew it or needed to ask for help. For us, it worked. Btw, there are ways to make it more exciting. One year we got these cool crayola markers that only worked on special paper and would make rainbow colors. You can use puffy pens. It's not like it has to be boring just because you're doing so much. Break out a bowl of chocolate chips or marshmallows and reward her each time she asks for help on a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 I agree. That's exactly how we use it, and I've no desire to add any extra busy work from the revised workbook. This is good to know. The workbooks didn't look like anything I really wanted and as a picky side-note they were printed on that really flimsy newsprint type paper which tears and doesn't erase well. I want simple. Just something to keep our toe in the door on spelling. SWR is just too much. She doesn't need all that anymore. I'm going to give her the Sequential Spelling placement test and see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 We are using Spelling Power. I bought a used older edition, book only. It is going well so far, which is not very far into it, but it is the first spelling program that worked for my ds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Sequential Spelling!!! You don't need the revised workbooks. I started using it before it was revised and bought by another company. I've used the workbooks. There's some good ideas in there for vocab and writing, but mainly just pointless if all you want is spelling. All you would need is the teacher guide and a student response book. http://www.rainbowresource.com/pictures/038474/79c235a4ccc8f12519e1e3c1 This is different than the revised student workbook. You don't need that, You don't need a DVD. You don't need an app. I prefer the old student response book, but you can use a plain notebook. The teacher guide of the daily lists, three colored dry erase markers, and a white board. All you need. Each day give the the child the pattern to work on, give the word, use it in a sentence, have the child spell it. They do it correctly...yay. They need help, then use your three colors to spell the word, using a different color for each part of the word, talk about any spelling rules or grammar that you may need to, use the dictionary for unfamiliar words....done. This is great! Thanks for writing this out. I am in hate with most spelling curricula because I think they're practically useless. SS seems MUCH more useful to me with the patterns but the website gives me hives. =) Why do companies overcomplicate tried and true programs by adding bells, whistles, and useless busy work? I am so old school and vanilla because that stuff WORKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I usually love bells and whistles... you know, because there so bell and whistly (this is a spelling thread, so please forgive my made up word). There's definitely no wow factor to Sequential Spelling. That said, it's the first thing for spelling that's actually worked for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classically Minded Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I just read a book called, The Brainy Bunch, about a family that sends their kids to college by 12. They don't even teach spelling! They just write everyday and the mom edits their writing and tells them what they spelled wrong and the rule and how to spell it right, etc. I found that interesting. Their philosophy is that you have the child read a lot and write a lot, spelling takes care of itself. I like All About Spelling and we are finishing up the 4th book, we also like SWO and plan on going back to it once we finish the next 2 levels we have of AAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I just read a book called, The Brainy Bunch, about a family that sends their kids to college by 12. They don't even teach spelling! They just write everyday and the mom edits their writing and tells them what they spelled wrong and the rule and how to spell it right, etc. I found that interesting. Their philosophy is that you have the child read a lot and write a lot, spelling takes care of itself. I like All About Spelling and we are finishing up the 4th book, we also like SWO and plan on going back to it once we finish the next 2 levels we have of AAS. So, if I teach spelling, my child won't go away to college as quickly! Perfect! I'm not anywhere near ready for them to move on. ;) in any case, that may work for other families, might even work for mine, but it's a gamble I'm not willing to take. My oldest's spelling was so bad that even she couldn't tell you what she had written. I can tell you must feel similarly, or you wouldn't be juggling all those AAS cards. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Hi Heather- I have an 11yo poor speller and I am going to use Spelling Through Morphographs this year with him. It is a DI program co-written by Engelmann (of 100EZ) and is an explicit and systematic program for 4th graders and up. I do not like OG type spelling programs and prefer this route (same as Apples and Pears...btw, the authors of A&P used to use Englemann's Spelling Mastery program then wrote their own). It is a one year program (138 lessons) that takes about 20 minutes per day. By the end, the student should know 750 Morphographs and be able to spell 12,00-15,00 words, including commonly misspelled ones. I purchased mine off eBay ($100) because there is no way I could afford the program otherwise. I may split it across 2 years for my son, but then spelling should be finished. The closest thing I've seen to this is A&P, which spreads out the instruction over more books, but is more affordable to the homeschooler. If my son struggles with the pace off Spelling Thru Morphs, I will quickly move to A&P (I just dislike the cheesy name, kwim?) There are samples, placement test, and research articles here: http://www.nifdi.org/programs/spelling/spelling-through-morphographs They note in the placement that there are basically 3 scenarios. The first is a child who cannot begin the program and needs more sound/symbol instruction. The second is your mainline poor speller....the one the program is aimed at. And finally, the student may be too high for the program. I taught middle school and used DI programs and have seen the beauty, effectiveness, and confidence these programs offer to both teacher and student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If she is having issues with advanced spelling maybe just learning the rules is all she needs. She could read Denise Eide's Logic of English Book. And watch her videos to get an idea of where she is spelling things incorrectly. There are spelling tests on video on the Logic of English site. There is a section for adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classically Minded Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 So, if I teach spelling, my child won't go away to college as quickly! Perfect! I'm not anywhere near ready for them to move on. ;) in any case, that may work for other families, might even work for mine, but it's a gamble I'm not willing to take. My oldest's spelling was so bad that even she couldn't tell you what she had written. I can tell you must feel similarly, or you wouldn't be juggling all those AAS cards. LOL I know it is pretty controversial but I don't want my children in college by 12 either, I just think that it was great that they were able to become good writers and spellers without a curriculum. However for myself, I do want a curriculum because my dd struggled really bad with spelling when she was 8. Since doing AAS, she no longer struggles. I do remember a lecture of SWB that said you won't see correct spelling in the child's work until around 5th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Thanks everyone... I know this sounds crazy but I ended up finding a used copy of Natural Speller. It seems like an easy way to go through the rules and patterns she has problems with and not make a huge time or financial commitment. I think I can tailor the info in there to cover the mistakes she's making. At least for the moment I've decided to calm down about spelling LOL Thanks again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Thanks everyone... I know this sounds crazy but I ended up finding a used copy of Natural Speller. It seems like an easy way to go through the rules and patterns she has problems with and not make a huge time or financial commitment. I think I can tailor the info in there to cover the mistakes she's making. At least for the moment I've decided to calm down about spelling LOL Thanks again!! I was actually going to recommend she watch my online spelling lessons and then use natural speller! http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Spelling/spellinglessonsl.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarabellesmom Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I know it is pretty controversial but I don't want my children in college by 12 either, I just think that it was great that they were able to become good writers and spellers without a curriculum. However for myself, I do want a curriculum because my dd struggled really bad with spelling when she was 8. Since doing AAS, she no longer struggles. I do remember a lecture of SWB that said you won't see correct spelling in the child's work until around 5th grade. I hope you don't think I was trying to be mean. I was feeling silly and it was still early here. I really meant that in a very friendly way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classically Minded Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I hope you don't think I was trying to be mean. I was feeling silly and it was still early here. I really meant that in a very friendly way. No, I didn't think that, no worries!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventuresinHomeschooling Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I was going to suggest Natural Speller to go over any gaps. My other suggestion would be to look at some vocabulary programs. At her age, she can start vocabulary using classical roots, and it will help her with spelling as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I just read a book called, The Brainy Bunch, about a family that sends their kids to college by 12. They don't even teach spelling! They just write everyday and the mom edits their writing and tells them what they spelled wrong and the rule and how to spell it right, etc. I found that interesting. Their philosophy is that you have the child read a lot and write a lot, spelling takes care of itself. 1) They are teaching spelling, just not using a curriculum specifically for that. 2) It depends on the child whether or not that approach will work or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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