Didn't like Beast Academy?

[dereksurfs]

As the title states if you didn't like Beast Academy I am curious why?  Or if it worked for 'some' of your kids but not others I would like to hear about that.  There are so many 'fan' threads that I'd like to hear the other side of the story as well since no program, no matter how wonderful, works for every child.

 

Thanks,

[madteaparty]

We used it as a Singapore supplement, did not like it, but I can't exactly pinpoint why. Not sure the cartoon style was that appealing here, and further we found the problems quite uneven. A very easy problem would be followed by a very difficult one. Maybe that was intentional. Anyway, we dropped it as a supplement and have been using a number of Singapore-like materials, as supplements.

I wish I had a more coherent answer.

[dereksurfs]

We used it as a Singapore supplement, did not like it, but I can't exactly pinpoint why. Not sure the cartoon style was that appealing here, and further we found the problems quite uneven. A very easy problem would be followed by a very difficult one. Maybe that was intentional. Anyway, we dropped it as a supplement and have been using a number of Singapore-like materials, as supplements.

I wish I had a more coherent answer.

 

Thanks for the input, madteaparty.  After reading all the fan threads and then looking at the samples I was a bit underwhelmed and unimpressed.  And we use AoPS for Algebra so I know what you mean regarding the general approach.  It is similar in going from some simple or moderate problems to ones which can be off the charts difficult - to make one really wrestle/think/etc...  I know for certain that style will not work for all children including quite possibly some of ours.  Still I am curious and may just try out a limited sample with our younger dds.  But I like hearing form both sides first so I can more realistically assess things.

[boscopup]

You might get more answers on the K-8 side of things. Most Logic Stage kids should be beyond what BA offers currently (grades 3 and 4 only).

 

(we love BA here, but also love AoPS Prealgebra :) )

[Chrysalis Academy]

Morgan wouldn't like BA if she had to use it every day.  She likes the sense of accomplishment she gets from solving hard problems . . . some days.  Some days she just wants some get 'er done math, KWIM?  So while I like BA very much, I can see that we won't be able to use it as our main/only math, at least not at this point.  I will need something else (we use MM, too) to pull out for those lower-energy days where she wants something more straightforward and doesn't have the mental energy to grapple with BA.  I think this is ok, she is young, but I do want to keep it in the mix because part of my intention with math instruction is to grow that ability - the ability to persevere with problem solving.  Some kids aren't born with the "aops attitude" but it can be cultivated.

[Crimson Wife]

The guides are very "busy" from a visual standpoint. I don't look at them myself and if they had been assigned to me as a kid, I would've disliked that. The practice books are fine because they are black & white with only a few cartoons on each page.

[Farrar]

It worked for one of my boys and not the other.  They're twins and they're like a fun math experiment sometimes because they're so different in how they think about math.

 

The twin it worked for:

...had done Miquon all the way through

...enjoys the discovery approach

...likes logic puzzles and puzzles and codes in general

...is a very whole to parts learner

...can get frustrated, but when he works past it, feels proud and excited

 

The twin it didn't work for:

...had done Math Mammoth up to that point mostly (and the CWP's sometimes and so other things)

...likes his math straightorward and doesn't mind practice

...enjoys reading and writing more than math

...is a more parts to whole thinker for some things

...actually handles frustration pretty well, but feels exhausted and irritated after overcoming it

 

The twin it didn't work for had trouble following the math in the guide. The problems were all too easy or too hard for him.  While his brother would use the easy problems to get him to think about the harder ones (a very similar approach to Miquon, IMO), the twin it didn't work for had trouble seeing the connection.  That's the same thing that Madteaparty said basically - I just see that it works for some kids and not others.  

 

I think you have to like to be frustrated to use Beast, or have an incredibly high threshold for feeling frustrated, or be really gifted at math.  The kid it worked for really gets something out of overcoming frustration, even though his trigger is sort of low (we're working on it...  sigh).  But the kid it didn't work for really dislikes being frustrated.  He deals with it pretty well, but then I get a huge earful about how it should have been done differently because why should things in life be made to be harder than they need to be.

[wapiti]

I really dislike the excessive color and comic-book layout of the Guides - far too much visual input to sift through/process to get the important input.

 

I don't know how I feel about the order of topics (e.g. beginning with that geometry chapter in 3A) and differences in depth and challenge levels between lessons and sections.

 

I do like how some of the lessons are presented and especially the topics that seem a bit out of the mainstream for these grade levels (I can say for certain that some topics are great prep for AoPS Prealgebra), though I don't have enough experience with it to comment more than that.  My ds7 has only done a few lessons in BA.  I expect that we will skip certain chapters as he's already pretty far with standard topics (e.g. at school, he's in the middle of learning long division), though for the chapters we do, we will probably need to do them in order.

 

I like BA enough that I recently ordered the rest of what's been published.  Haven't looked through them yet.

Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti

[dereksurfs]

It worked for one of my boys and not the other.  They're twins and they're like a fun math experiment sometimes because they're so different in how they think about math.

 

The twin it worked for:

...had done Miquon all the way through

...enjoys the discovery approach

...likes logic puzzles and puzzles and codes in general

...is a very whole to parts learner

...can get frustrated, but when he works past it, feels proud and excited

 

The twin it didn't work for:

...had done Math Mammoth up to that point mostly (and the CWP's sometimes and so other things)

...likes his math straightorward and doesn't mind practice

...enjoys reading and writing more than math

...is a more parts to whole thinker for some things

...actually handles frustration pretty well, but feels exhausted and irritated after overcoming it

 

The twin it didn't work for had trouble following the math in the guide. The problems were all too easy or too hard for him.  While his brother would use the easy problems to get him to think about the harder ones (a very similar approach to Miquon, IMO), the twin it didn't work for had trouble seeing the connection.  That's the same thing that Madteaparty said basically - I just see that it works for some kids and not others.  

 

I think you have to like to be frustrated to use Beast, or have an incredibly high threshold for feeling frustrated, or be really gifted at math.  The kid it worked for really gets something out of overcoming frustration, even though his trigger is sort of low (we're working on it...  sigh).  But the kid it didn't work for really dislikes being frustrated.  He deals with it pretty well, but then I get a huge earful about how it should have been done differently because why should things in life be made to be harder than they need to be.

 

Wow, farrarwilliams!  That is one of the best explanations of why Beast Academy or AoPS may be a good fit for one child and not another.  The fact that you actually have twins to use as test subjects makes it even clearer I think.  :thumbup:

 

Thank you for taking the time to break this comparison down for us!

[ChrisB]

We use BA as a supplement to RS, and they are good companions.  We've also found it to be uneven, too hard or two easy.

 

I have 3 who are old enough to use it, but one (of a set of twins) doesn't even want to do it.  She does read the guides over and over again because she likes comics and likes the characters.  She's good at math and on par with her twin brother, but a perfectionist, and doesn't want to get it wrong the first time, so probably not the audience for BA/AoPS.  Brother loves to think about math, do math puzzles, worry it over in his head (you get the picture) so he loves BA.  

 

My oldest DD has a love/hate relationship with it.  On one hand it's too easy because it is a review for her, and on the other it's too hard and she has to like the subject being covered in order to like that section of BA.  I still have her working through it for review and a different way to think about math.

[sagira]

I bought BA 3A, B, and C for DS to simply read and enjoy, no expectations. He says he understands the math, but who knows? This kid loves comics and cartoons, so I think that is the draw. I give a BA guide to him as a birthday or Christmas gift. He uses MM and is a get-er-done type math person (like me), so I imagine the fun of BA would end if I required him to work through the problems and worse if he has to discover them. This child did not do well with Miquon. 

 

BA could work for DD6, however, whom Miquon did/does work for. So does MM, though, and I like teaching MM more than I like teaching Miquon. BA may be just a supplement for her too then. I never got into the book. DS and DD both like to read the cartoons already, though. I'm hoping some math will rub off on my DD6 as well. 

 

I only bought BA to add some fun and excitement in math for DS.

[Farrar]

The too many visuals critique is interesting to me.  That never would have occurred to me.  We all really like the look and design behind the guide.  And the sort of Easter egg quality to some of the ongoing pieces of the story.  But I could see that would difficult for some kids.  I tend to let ds read it, then reread it with him and have a whiteboard on hand to discuss with.  That helps bring the math pieces to the forefront a little more.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Beast was not around when my son was at that level, but our library has them and I thought my son would like them since we use AoPS.

 

He very much likes the way the concepts are explained, but not the graphics. They were way too visually stimulating for him. I always forget this part of his learning. I am not visual much at all. He is very visual. I always think that if he is visual he will love comic style curriculum. No dice. He finds it very overwhelming. No graphic novels at all. He likes very clean pages.

[Forgiven]

My DS loves Beast, but I wanted to comment upon the graphic novel type of approach to the guide. It seems that there are quite a few people who feel it's too busy. My DS cannot stand comic books. I've tried to get him interested in them, as my DH was big into them at my DS's age, but my DS just hates them. He doesn't like how busy they are, and gets confused on how to follow the words.

 

I wasn't sure how my DS would take the BA guides, but I figured I'd give it a shot. In the beginning of the guides, there are are a few pages that go over how to read the guide. My son spent a lot of time going over those first few pages, and he hasn't had a problem with the guide at all. He still cannot stand comic books or graphic novels at all, but he loves Beast.

 

I just wanted to point out that just because a kid doesn't like comics or graphic novels, it does not mean that they will not be able to learn from BA's comic-style guides.

[....]

I have 2 kids who have used this program up to 3C.  Like their pre algebra book (which I worked through with my oldest daughter), I really think this series is a learning personality/learning style thing.  One of my kids no longer uses it, one of them uses it once a week as a supplement.

 

1.  They both loved the comics and the graphics.  In fact, without the comics, I doubt either of them would've wanted to do it.  The 9 yro especially likes the characters.

2.  My son really enjoyed the geometry sections, but my daughter couldn't get through them.  In fact, I think she stopped the geometry (tangrams, etc) in 3A and moved on without finishing.  

3.  I feel like the program is way too conceptual for most kids - especially elementary-aged kids.  That section on measurements/weights in 3A is one in particular that I'm thinking of.  Some of the skip-counting problems in the workbook were impossible for my 3rd grader without a lot of help.  Even I couldn't answer some of the geometry problems.

4.  This program is working for my daughter, because we've accepted a few realities.  She will not be able to answer every question.  It's ok to move on (like she did with the geometry problems).  The levels are not appropriate grade levels.  It's ok to be older than 3rd grade and be in level 3.  

[happyhome]

I think you have to like to be frustrated to use Beast, or have an incredibly high threshold for feeling frustrated, or be really gifted at math. The kid it worked for really gets something out of overcoming frustration, even though his trigger is sort of low (we're working on it... sigh). But the kid it didn't work for really dislikes being frustrated. He deals with it pretty well, but then I get a huge earful about how it should have been done differently because why should things in life be made to be harder than they need to be.

 

This. I tried Beast with the two youngers last year. The youngest, who is competitive and driven by taking on things way above his pay grade, loves it. But this kid likes frustration. When he was getting his serve down in tennis, he went up against a cement wall on the side of the garage for hours over and over and over again. His coach said it would take him a month to perfect it. Nope, this kid saw the challenge and got it in a week. He was frustrated as could be while he trained, but he never complained about it. My daughters would be looking out the window saying, why does he have to make everything so hard? He's just like that. With Beast, there have been times where he will spend a morning mumbling, shuffling, fidgeting, walking in the backyard and then all of a sudden burst into the house screaming "I got it!!" Now that sounds dramatic and all but my husband and I are often questioning, does math have to be taught this way? The problem is for this kid, who loves math, we've tried so many other programs and this is the only one that lights a spark. Ironically, Farrarwilliams helped me figure out Miquon for this guy when I first started homeschooling and he loved that too.

 

My middle dd is much more easy going and not as intense. She likes parts to whole, taking her time, enjoying the journey. She wanted to try Beast because she thought the story was cute. At first, it was ok (but she started in 4A, not that god forsaken 3A chapter 1!). It quickly went south. Beast frustrated her, but in a different way. She didn't like the assumptions made when each topic was presented. Beast assumes a certain intuitiveness with math. At times, it left her lost wondering what she was supposed to be learning. When we went back to MM with her, she was relieved to be doing math the "normal" way. We didn't use it as a supplement because we were getting problem solving through HOE and CWP and we felt it was enough. For her, Beast put the spark out. Much like Farrar's kids, this kid is my language and writing buff. Math just needs to truck along for her, one day at a time.

 

Our eldest would not have liked Beast at all. She's doing AoPS for Algebra and loves the approach but the comic theme would have been too silly for her so we did MM up to 6 then over to AoPS.

 

Derek, I too was unimpressed when we first got started. The cartoons looked silly and the concepts seemed to be presented so quickly, with little or no practice. I also couldn't figure out the sequence. It seemed random. And the difficulty? The first chapter of 3A almost made me chuck the whole thing. It felt similar to parts of the AoPS Prealgebra book, a really hard way of explaining simple things. But, at least with my son, the value has been more than just the arithmetic. He has a certain intuitiveness about math already, so the actual math concepts come easy when presented. However, Beast has opened up a different way to "think" about math and that's where the frustration comes in. He's seeing patterns and relationships that are exciting and interesting to him. He's fascinated by how math can build and solve puzzles (like tetronimoes). He's learning critical thinking and patience with things he doesn't understand. And not for nothing, he loves the idea of math competitions down the road.

 

That said, I will agree with those who say Beast is not for every kid. Not sure if this will make sense, but this is how I look at it.....there are many ways to teach critical thinking and patience for problem solving. Many kids just need math as a practical skill and can learn problem solving through content that comes a bit easier. I wouldn't use math to do it unless I had a kid who was mathy. My middle would have lost the concepts to learn the thinking skills, not a good trade off for her. Instead, we are using a challenging lit analysis plan that I believe will teach similar skills in a way that honors her specific "intelligence." Does that make sense?

[MamaSprout]

My mathy dd didn't hate Beast- she liked the guides. She actually likes the workbooks, but we've never really done it as a curriculum. She never wanted to, even though I offered. She likes Alcumus, but not the PreA book either. I only bought the first two.

 

 Lechner's book  and Zaccaros books are better suited to us. She also discovered Murderous Maths. I wake her up in the morning and find her asleep with them. She followed me around for 2 days with the codes book.

 

HTH