Grammar/ 'Language Arts' programs

[PeacefulChaos]

So.

 

I had Astro take part of his standardized test today, and noticed that there seemed to be some gaps - major ones - in his basic LA knowledge.  As in, synonyms (he didn't know, for example, what a cellar was, so couldn't pick a synonym for it) - so I guess it's more like vocabulary.  He also doesn't know capitalization and punctuation super well - punctuation was ok, capitalization was a nightmare.

 

I know that he's gone over this stuff.  We did FLL 1 and 2 in K and 1st grade.  This year he did Growing with Grammar, which I knew wasn't awesome by the end of the year, but I had NO idea he had forgotten that many basics!  We were already planning on switching next year.

We already read a lot.  I read above his level to them, he is finally getting to grade level with his own reading (we've been working a lot on reading this year).  

So what would you suggest doing next year to have a reminder of these basic things?  I hated FLL 3 so that's not an option (I have the book but it was dreadful).  Hated Rod & Staff, too.  I really want something that isn't super-teacher-intensive.  

I had originally considered LLATL for both the kids next year, but I know that doesn't really look to be too strong on basic language mechanics and grammar skills.  I'm not opposed to changing my mind - I'll just sell anything I already purchased and buy something else.  No big deal.

 

Thoughts??

[Ellie]

So, he's just 8? I would expect children that young to be iffy on things like synonyms, and to have limited vocabulary (how many children who don't live in houses with cellars would know what they are? what if they live in houses with *basements* instead of *cellars*?).

 

If LLATL looks good to you, do that. It looks a little light to me, as well, but long-term users report that their children have very good language skills.

[mom31257]

I really like Christian Light's language arts. It is much less teacher intensive than R&S, but it has the quality of instruction with continual review.  There are placement tests, so I would do those. You can purchase them, but you can also just click on see sample and print the whole thing or parts you want. I think 3rd grade is in revision and coming out this summer, if that is the placement. 

 

My dd used it for quite a few years and always tests in the top 1% on standardized test English sections. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Are you doing daily dictation from a source with variety??

[PeacefulChaos]

Are you doing daily dictation from a source with variety??

 

No dictation.  I've not done that since FLL 2 with Astro.  

I never did any more than that with Link, either.  

Astro doesn't have good spelling and writing skills - that's why we've been concentrating so much on that aspect this year.  I didn't feel like dictation would do anything for him but frustrate him.  

I also don't recall TWTM saying anything about dictation past FLL, so it never occurred to me to do so.

[Kuovonne]

We already read a lot. I read above his level to them, he is finally getting to grade level with his own reading (we've been working a lot on reading this year).

The biggest thing that will help with punctuation and capitalization is lots of independent reading.

Looking at correct punctuation, caitalization, and spelling over and over again will help imprint

those patterns in the brain. Then when it comes to testing he will be better able to recognize

when something doesn't look right. Correct mechanics in original writing will come much later.

 

Read alouds will help with vocabulary (if you stop give brief definitions for unknown words);

it will also help a little with punctuation because he will hear natural pauses in the language,

but it will do nothing for capitalization or spelling as the child doesn't see those things during

a read aloud.

[PeacefulChaos]

bumping :)

[Jasperstone]

Up to grade 5 CLE is awesome! It really teaches grammar and punctuation well.

 

I would have him sit a placement test though. And even if he needs to go to a level lower it will benefit him to do so. They are ahead anyway, so it doesn't matter really what the cover says.

 

Yeah, I have heard that LLATL is light.

 

Also look into Essentials in Writing, it has enough grammar without the overkill.

[Hunter]

I have most of both the current and original LLATL here. Most of the successes and long term use of LLATL that we hear about are use of the ORIGINAL LLATL, and usually along with mom's pretty intense study of Ruth Beechick's books.

 

Just like with the What Your Grader Needs to Know series, I have a huge preference for the ORIGINAL editions, of both these series.

 

If you adopt the original edition, you will want the following books:

 

The Three R's

You Can Teach Your Child Successfully

Learning Grammar through Writing

Teaching Children: A Curriculum Guide to What Children Need to Know at Each Level Through Grade Six

 

With either edition of LLATL, or ANY other curriculum, I think the key is for YOU–not the book(s)–to constantly reinforce previously learned skills in the content and literature and Bible lessons, and whatever else you are teaching.

 

I'm planning to use the original LLATL series this year. I'm a terrible curriculum hopper, so...I'm not sure that means much. :lol: But as for my evaluation of quality and efficiency and long term benefit, compared to other more expensive and trendy curriculum, it looks really good to me. Again, though, it will require extra reinforcement that is not scheduled into the series.

 

An entire week's work of the original series is just a 2 page spread. I love that, though! I'm a whole to parts person and I can see the whole week at once.

 

The current series appears to have more, more, more than the original, but it doesn't direct the instructor back to the Beechick books and was written as a stand alone curriculum, instead of the glue of the above mentioned resources. I don't think the new stand alone series contains all that the old package did. Close, but not quite. It's kind of like a pretty and sanitary package of fluffy store bought bread, compared to a rustic and slightly stale loaf of homemade bread. I personally, would want to sink my teeth into the homemade loaf, and would be willing to chew it.

 

Eventually, I want to write my own similar Beechick inspired language arts lessons for a Bible storybook, but for now, this is what I plan to use.

[Lolly]

Pssst...Over here...Got to tell you a little secret....

 

 

 

There is a reason Language Arts books cover punctuation and capitalization every. single. year. The kids...tend to forget it. He is 8. He will get lots more exposure. Vocabulary, that really somwhat depends on their exposure. A word like cellar? Has he ever experienced one? Seen a picture of one? Read a book where someone has one? To me, at 8, that particular word is more a matter of geographical location. But, his score may be indicating areas of weakness for him. This is one reason you test--to find these areas. To realize that these are the areas where you need to be a bit more.......teacher intensive. If these are his weak areas, then he is more likely to need more teacher input/assistance/direction here.

 

I, personally, am a R&S fan. I don't like it. I think it is boring. I get tired of all the Biblical references (did I just admit that??). It takes so much time from the teacher because you really do need to do the little review before the lesson. You really do need to go over the lesson. You do need to have them write out the sentences most of the time. A kid who is a grammar natural can get by with doing the lessons orally. A kid who isn't NEEDS to write it out. It really s&cks. So, why do I like it? It works. I have yet to have a dc who did not have excellent grammatical skills after using it. And, I have a huge variety of abilities and needs in my dc. It seems that sometimes, the dead horse does need to be beaten. 

 

Vocabulary? Keep reading. That is probably the single most important vocabulary builder. You might also want to start prereading sections and choosing vocabulary words. Go over those words before you read. Give a vocal emphasis when you get to them in the story. If they are from his silent reading, have him write the definitions out before he reads. Maybe offer a small reward if he can find sentence/s where they are used in the story. Or, have him keep a notebook nearby while he is reading to jot down words he doesn't quite grasp while he is reading. Look them up either right then, or when he is finished reading. (I love Kindle's dictionary feature. It looks it right up for you so fast!) Also check to make sure he is paying attention while you read aloud. Some kids are fine playing with quiet toys while you read. It helps them to focus and process the story somehow. Without an activity, they just wander about in their own minds. Other kids just get involved in their play and totally drown your voice out with the voices inside their heads. So, you may be reading, but is he listening? If you can't stand the prereading vocabulary idea, when you are reading if you come to a word that might be unknown, stop and ask to see if they were able to get the meaning from the context. Allow interruptions so that the dc can ask for a definition. Encourage it. It kills me to not just read a story straight through, but those discussions are quite helpful to someone who might be having trouble understanding the vocabulary and meanings in a story. (It will also help when they get older, because you will unknowingly start covering all kinds of literary devices/techniques in your mid story conversations.)

[boscopup]

My 7 year old would have trouble with "cellar" also. We call them "basements" here. Even the "storm cellar" is called a "storm shelter" here. I know about "cellars" because I've seen/read the Wizard of Oz and other such things, but that's through years of exposure to a wide variety of books, TV shows, and movies. I wouldn't expect an 8 year old to necessarily know that word if their geographic location doesn't use the word much (one of the reasons why standardized testing isn't necessarily standardized... look at the social studies questions that are very regionally based).

 

I also don't expect my 7 year old's vocabulary to be as good as his older brother's at the same age, since the older brother was much more well read by now. When he starts reading more, he'll do better. Things like capitalization and punctuation come with practice writing. If reading is taking longer (as it has for my 7 year old), writing and grammar are going to take longer also. I expect that with my 7 year old. I don't plan to test him anytime soon. :tongue_smilie: He will probably need years and years of grammar to really absorb it (he's still working on proper grammar in speech). I will probably use Hake Grammar with him eventually - it's spiral and incremental like Saxon math.

[Samiam]

Eh, he's 8. Many schools of thought advocate a late start on grammar, ie wait until middle school, even high school, because one DOESNT need 12 years of being hammered with grammar workbooks of your native language. Grammar is a lot of abstract concepts, more easily grasped when one's brain has matured a bit. Four years of covering it at high school age will make it just as cemented as 12 years, with the first 8 years being a struggle. Now could one lightly cover basic grammar concepts as part of daily life, sure! Couldn't hurt to discuss what a noun is, as you do a read-aloud, or go over spelling words. But I wouldn't get a drill-n-kill curriculum for an eight year old. That's a great way to make a child hate/dread a subject. Vocab...that's easy....read books together, and stop at a word that might need some explaining. He's eight. This advice pertains to elementary years. Now if you were asking about a 14 year old, the advice would be different.

[Hunter]

With the push to start AP classes in the 9th grade, skills have been pushed down to developmentally inappropriate ages. If you are covering skills that are too advanced, there will be little retention.

 

As Samiam said, sometimes just waiting is a good idea.

[Korrale]

I would have to say cellar is tough. I know many adults that wouldn't really know one.

And here cellar would probably be synonymous with basement, although they are quite different. A basement is accessed inside a house and is more like a lower floor or a house. A cellar is access from the exterior of the house. I don't know anyone that calls it a storm shelter, but cellar might be synomous with storm shelter. It is conflicting for me as an adult that knows the difference. I can't imagine a 7 year old unless the have been exposed.

My 4 year old only knows because when we walk around our neighborhood I can point out our neighbors that have cellars, we have a basement but it used to be a cellar.