At what point do you decide that Singapore math isn't working

[tld]

DS is in 1st grade and after 8 1/2 months in Singapore, working on math 20 minutes a day 5 days a week, we've travelled through 1A and half-way through 1B.  I have the Home Instructor's guide and we've been doing most of the activities in that along with the Textbook, workbook, and Extra Practice book.  I would call him a very average math student.

 

I'm just not fully convinced that this style of mathematics is clicking with DS.  Maybe part of it is that he only has about 1/2 is addition facts memorized, but I feel like he's not getting certain aspects.  I guess I'm mainly thinking about multi-digit addition or subtraction problems.  I don't feel like he understands WHY we go about solving them the way we do.  AND he can never remember how to do them if we take more than a couple day break from them.  (Truth be known, I'm a mathy person but have to review how we do these problems each time too, but I get the why's and love the mental componant.)

 

I'm wondering if a more straight-forward traditional approach might connect better with him, but I'm not fully sure.  But then again, maybe the Singapore style of mathematics just takes longer to grasp?  I know that if a child connects well with Singapore, they end up being more mathamatically advanced than other kids their age.  But my worry is that Singapore may be putting him behind, just because I don't know that he's really "getting it."  He does definately love it more than MUS, which we used last year....mainly because of the colorful Singapore textbook and not having to use manipulatives ALL the time....though I do make him use manipulatives much of the time with Singapore to help him with the conceptual side.

 

Any thoughts on whether we should hang in there or follow my gut and jump ship?

[k8c]

We are struggling to get my dd to stop "counting up" or "counting down" to do the math.  We are only almost done with 1A, and I have shown her double digit to explain why the Singapore way that is taught will make sense to her once we get there, but she will still count up or down in her head.  We have gone very slowly with lots of extra practice (where I sit next to her and make her break things down, etc), but if left to her own devices, she will count up or down 9 instead of adding 1 to the 9 to make it 10 and get the answer much faster.  I am not sure that means that Singapore "isn't working" for us, or if she is just stubborn and wants to stick with what seems to be working for her.  That being said, we also supplement with CTC Mathematical Reasoning, which reviews things in a different way (there really is no teaching in the workbook, so we can apply the Singapore skills).  I am not a mathy person, but the HIG has really helped me understand conceptually why I do things the way I actually do them.  We are going to just keep going (we also tried MUS and didn't like it) the way we have been, lots of extra practice and mom-directed practice and hopefully one day it will stick.

[tld]

Has anyone NOT switched out of Singapore in the elementary years and regretted it?

[Crimson Wife]

I would work on the facts separately from the main Singapore lesson. My DS really liked the Mindware "Addition Adventures" and "Subtraction Secrets" books for this purpose.

 

Having used 1A through now 8A, I do have to say that IMHO the 1st grade books are the weakest of all the Singapore levels. So I wouldn't judge Singapore as a whole by the 1st grade books. I wouldn't jump ship just yet. Add the facts practice and then give 2A a try. If you're still having difficulty with Singapore after you've finished 2A, then I'd say that would be the time to switch.

[Crimson Wife]

Oh, and I would NOT worry about being "behind". I don't think you can be behind with a 1st grader in math assuming he/she can count and understands numerical correspondance (e.g. that "5" represents five objects). Now with a middle school student I can understand concern about being behind. But in the primary grades I really wouldn't worry about anything other than building a solid foundation.

[swainsonshawk]

I've switched around a lot, but used Singapore mostly.  I never completely focused on the mental math tricks.  Some of my kids got them, some of them count, some of them figured out their own way.  As long as they are understanding conceptually and "getting it" I just keep plugging along.  That said, I have switched around a lot and I've never found something that I like as much as I like Singapore.  It has the kind of metal, understanding math that think my kids should be doing.  Its weakness is practice and facts.  If you can beef those up, it's a great program.  I keep plugging along and when I see that a child is struggling with a concept, we stop and review.  I make up extra problems, I add a review problem to their daily assignment if I think recall is going to be weak.  Right now I've got one in Algebra after going though Singapore math 6A, one in pre-algebra after going through 5B--both doing fine.  I've got one at home in 5A--(1/2 year behind).  He's struggling with long division again--remembering the algorithm, applying it to harder problems.  We will go slowly for a bit.  We will make sure to do the extra textbook problems and the extra reviews.  I have two kids in Singapore 2A  My third grader is behind, but doing well with the math (she's had some math anxiety) my 1st grader is ahead and grasps concepts quickly. I considered switching (again) for my 3rd grader, but nothing will deepen her math understanding like Singapore and I know we can go through it fast when she's understanding well.  I am planning on adding a subject I call math practice to her day next year and it will consist of: Calculadders and facts practice on the ipad (apps yet to be found).

[k8c]

My DS really liked the Mindware "Addition Adventures" and "Subtraction Secrets" books for this purpose.

 

We have tried these too, after I found a used one.  They are fun!

[WahM]

I decided it wasn't for my dd when she went from loving math, doing math for "fun" and reading/watching anything math related to hating math and crying when it was time for math.

[mmasc]

FWIW, I decided after 2B. My DS8 would get really frustrated because he wouldn't remember how to do something we had already covered. I would get frustrated because I would *think* he had learned it because he understood everything in the workbook assignment (after I taught from the HIG and TB), only to realize several sections later that he couldn't remember how. After seeking advice on this board, I decided to finish 2B and reevaluate. Well, I decided to try CLE over the summer and if it didn't work out, we could always go back to singapore 3A in the fall. So far, we really, really like CLE! I can't say long term since we've only done one light unit, but it has been like a breath of fresh air. Their facts system is genius, if you don't mind flash cards. For some reason, my DS8 and DS5 like flash cards. I liked it so much that I even ordered the CLE 1 set for my rising first grader, and I had already planned on something else for him. I think my first DS just needs more built in review, but not to the point of Saxon. I will say that although he's not fast on facts, he is pretty good at computing things in his head. I'm sure it's due to the mental math in Singapore. I just felt like if we were really struggling, it was time to try a different approach since he had never done anything else.

[HappyClassical]

I just mentioned about Singapore on another thread, but can't remember which. We did 1a/1b alongside MUS for Kinder. We will not be continuing. Math u See I have a thousand problems with, (though I love their skip counting CD), but Singpaore with the textbook and HIG just didn't work. As a matter of fact, my daughter is almost exactly where she was at the beginning of kindergarten and now we will be doing Righstart after a lot of research. I love the approach of Rightstart, and it shares some of the ideas with Singapore, but I feel like my child will do better with RS which seems easier to avoid issues I faced with Singapore, where her work looked great - but the long term comprehension wasn't there. I will mention that switching any math program (as I'm learning for myself now) - try "teaching" yourself some lessons as practice to really make sure you understand the methodology. It may also help you decide if it's the right move for you.

[tld]

FWIW, I decided after 2B. My DS8 would get really frustrated because he wouldn't remember how to do something we had already covered. I would get frustrated because I would *think* he had learned it because he understood everything in the workbook assignment (after I taught from the HIG and TB), only to realize several sections later that he couldn't remember how. After seeking advice on this board, I decided to finish 2B and reevaluate. Well, I decided to try CLE over the summer and if it didn't work out, we could always go back to singapore 3A in the fall. So far, we really, really like CLE! I can't say long term since we've only done one light unit, but it has been like a breath of fresh air. Their facts system is genius, if you don't mind flash cards. For some reason, my DS8 and DS5 like flash cards. I liked it so much that I even ordered the CLE 1 set for my rising first grader, and I had already planned on something else for him. I think my first DS just needs more built in review, but not to the point of Saxon. I will say that although he's not fast on facts, he is pretty good at computing things in his head. I'm sure it's due to the mental math in Singapore. I just felt like if we were really struggling, it was time to try a different approach since he had never done anything else.

 

I feel this is exactly what is going on!

[Lieutenant Stranger]

I knew when my kids, who were 1st and 2nd, were working on division but still couldn't grasp basic math facts. A quick placement test for Math Mammoth proved it to me.

 

We quit Singapore then and there and switched to MM, which has worked much better for us.

[kiwik]

Counting up and down is a normal developmental stage and probably suggests the child isn't ready for the more abstract approach rather than stubbornness.

[Jasperstone]

I second CLE Maths!

 

It's awesome! I can't believe how well my dc are doing now. We aren't a mathey family, but CLE makes it a breeze and enjoyable. I was astonished that my dd learnt circumferences of a circle without calling out to me. Normally she wouldn't have had the confidence to learn that on her own. The way they explain the concepts is so child friendly, and thorough. The other thing is how they review it enough so the child doesn't forget, but also not too much that they end up flogging a dead horse. So it a nice balance. :-D

 

Highly recommend it!

[Jasperstone]

By the way, we have never used the flash cards, and it still works well. So if flash cards don't appeal to you don't let that stop you. There is enough speed drills for them to learn their multiplications and other math drills.

[Momling]

Sometimes it's more about the developmental readiness of the child than about the math program. In your place, I'd probably set it aside and focus on games and activities to solidify adding and subtracting and number sense. Then pick up 1B again in the fall. When he's ready, it'll be a lot easier.

[tld]

I looked at CLE and love what I see!  At the same time, grade 2 looks soooo far above where DS is right now, finishing 1B of SM. 

 

I'm realizing that DS can do absolutely nothing in SM without me sitting there coaching his mind through it.....with maybe the exception of single-digit addition and subraction.  And I guess he does fine with the graphs and patterns and such.  But I almost feel like this year of math was a near complete loss.  And that has me NOT wanting to go through 2A before re-evaluating, as much as I would like SM to work.  I'm already feeling behind and don't want to keep stalled until mid-year next school year if 2A doesn't yeild results. 

 

But if I switch to CLE, I'm thinking we would have to start in the grade 1 books.  So much in the sample lessons just haven't been covered yet.  Could anyone who has done SM and CLE for these levels speak to this?

 

My other question is whether something like Math in Focus would give more of an incremental approach which might change things around for DS.

 

[loulou belle]

Have your DS take the CLE placement test. 

 

http://www.clp.org/store/by_grade/21

 

[mmasc]

I agree with loulou belle. Just give the placement test and start where it places your student. The great thing is, since there are several light units within one grade, you may be able to completely skip or move quickly through some. FWIW, I actually ordered and looked at Math in Focus and thought it looked easier to implement than PM, but was still too similar for me to want to try it. I was just ready for a whole new approach for DS.

[kristin0713]

We just switched TO Singapore from RightStart.  I have a 2nd grader and a K'er.   I have to say that while the switch is needed for us because a games-based drilling approach is just NOT working for us, I will still be using the strategies in RS with my K'er as we learn new concepts.  The foundation from RS is excellent and it works very well with Singapore.  I don't think there is enough in Singapore at this early level to really develop the concepts as well as RS, and RS has some super games.  I just can't handle the games ALL the time and my DD needs the workbook approach for practice.

[Tiramisu]

FWIW, I decided after 2B. My DS8 would get really frustrated because he wouldn't remember how to do something we had already covered. I would get frustrated because I would *think* he had learned it because he understood everything in the workbook assignment (after I taught from the HIG and TB), only to realize several sections later that he couldn't remember how. After seeking advice on this board, I decided to finish 2B and reevaluate. Well, I decided to try CLE over the summer and if it didn't work out, we could always go back to singapore 3A in the fall. So far, we really, really like CLE! I can't say long term since we've only done one light unit, but it has been like a breath of fresh air. Their facts system is genius, if you don't mind flash cards. For some reason, my DS8 and DS5 like flash cards. I liked it so much that I even ordered the CLE 1 set for my rising first grader, and I had already planned on something else for him. I think my first DS just needs more built in review, but not to the point of Saxon. I will say that although he's not fast on facts, he is pretty good at computing things in his head. I'm sure it's due to the mental math in Singapore. I just felt like if we were really struggling, it was time to try a different approach since he had never done anything else.

 

Wow! This sounds exactly like us. 

 

CLE really helped get things solidified without frustration. One could theoretically work on the facts on the side but *I* could never have managed that on the consistent basis. CLE had things in one nice little package. It worked for us for many years, until dd went to Saxon for algebra.

[Tiramisu]

I agree with loulou belle. Just give the placement test and start where it places your student. The great thing is, since there are several light units within one grade, you may be able to completely skip or move quickly through some. FWIW, I actually ordered and looked at Math in Focus and thought it looked easier to implement than PM, but was still too similar for me to want to try it. I was just ready for a whole new approach for DS.

 

The CLE placement test is really the best idea. However, I just looked over the scope and sequence and could pretty safely guess where dd could jump in. Then I sat right by her side for the first couple of weeks as she worked on math, so if she ran into anything she really hadn't seen before I could guide her through. It was a very seamless transition.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm realizing that DS can do absolutely nothing in SM without me sitting there coaching his mind through it.....with maybe the exception of single-digit addition and subraction.  And I guess he does fine with the graphs and patterns and such.  But I almost feel like this year of math was a near complete loss.  And that has me NOT wanting to go through 2A before re-evaluating, as much as I would like SM to work.  I'm already feeling behind and don't want to keep stalled until mid-year next school year if 2A doesn't yeild results.

 

Deep breath! If your child is only in first grade then IMHO he basically CAN'T be "behind" assuming he can count and understands numerical correspondance (e.g. that the symbol "5" represents 5 objects). Different kids are on a different timetable in terms of their cognitive readiness for formal math. It is FAR more important to build up a solid foundation in the early years than for the child to be in the grade level book that matches his grade. That doesn't necessarily mean to stick with a particular curriculum, but it does mean that you should chill out about being "behind". Play some games, work on the math facts independently via something like the Mindware books, and then see where he is in 6 months. Maybe try the Right Start abacus to see if that helps any with understanding place value, addition, and subtraction.

[Carolinagirl1]

We quit Singapore when my daughter started homeschooling. She went through 2B at school. It just didn't work for her. She was so frustrated with math when she was doing Singapore. We switched to CLE and her standardized test scores have soared! When we started CLE she didn't know her math facts very well at all. With CLE we do the flash cards every day and she whizzes through them. (I highly recommend the flash cards). Another thing I didn't like about Singapore was having to use three different books - the text, workbook, and TM. It just didn't feel organized to me and I was getting frustrated with it myself. CLE is just so streamlined and there is tons of review built in. I feel like the mental math in CLE is so much more intuitive. I don't regret switching at all. That being said, I can't say how she would've ended up if we stuck with Singapore, but we are super happy with CLE. I can't even say enough good things about it!

 

ETA: I recommend the placement test. It is a free download. Don't worry if your child places into a lower grade level. From what I understand, CLE is ahead.

[SkatingMom]

We discovered two apps that has helped DS solidify the Singapore concepts. One is Splash Math. It pairs really well with 1A/1B. The other is Number Bonds. Neither are free (1 was $10 and the other $3, I think) but were totally worth it.

 

That said... my DD is in Essentials B and Singapore is just very obviously not going to work for her.

[Haiku]

I knew it wasn't working for us when we went through three books and dd still couldn't do basic math. And we both loathed it. Honestly, I knew within a few weeks that it wasn't it a good fit, but because it was supposed to be the best, we stuck with it.

 

I then went to the bookstore, bought an armload of (gasp!) Spectrum math books, and in a few months dd caught up to and surpassed what she should have known from the Singapore books. She's now turning 20 and on the Dean's List at at the college where she studies biology and chemistry. ;)