Dolciani Pre-Algebra=Easy; AoPs Pre-Algebra=Hard - Anyone else experience with both?

[mirabillis]

We started AoPs Pre-Algebra midway through 6th grade. Went through Chapter 1, brought my very mathy kid to tears.

 

We panicked - did not want my son whose favorite subject was Math to be dreading it.

 

So we jumped ship to Dolciani Pre-Algebra. He loves it - it's easy. He can do 2-3 lessons in a day. We're skipping entire chapters we find repetitive (after SM 4B-6A) and just did Chapter Review. He should finish entire book in about 4 months, without really trying.

 

My question - does anyone else have experience with both Dolciani & AoPs Pre-Algebra?

 

Something nags me whether he's learning, if it comes so easily for him. We've just completed chapter on Graphing Inequalities (ie. y < 3x - 5 )- and are now beginning Area problems. He's sailing through.

 

Is Dolciani Pre-Algebra not comprehensive enough? How can 2 Pre-Algebra curriculum be so radically different in terms of difficulty?

 

And what should my next move be - should I go back to AoPs at all (he did love the videos)? 

Should I skip straight to an Algebra program for 7th grade now?

 

 

[freesia]

We started AoPs Pre-Algebra midway through 6th grade. Went through Chapter 1, brought my very mathy kid to tears.

 

We panicked - did not want my son whose favorite subject was Math to be dreading it.

 

So we jumped ship to Dolciani Pre-Algebra. He loves it - it's easy. He can do 2-3 lessons in a day. We're skipping entire chapters we find repetitive (after SM 4B-6A) and just did Chapter Review. He should finish entire book in about 4 months, without really trying.

 

My question - does anyone else have experience with both Dolciani & AoPs Pre-Algebra?

 

Something nags me whether he's learning, if it comes so easily for him. We've just completed chapter on Graphing Inequalities (ie. y < 3x - 5 )- and are now beginning Area problems. He's sailing through.

 

Is Dolciani Pre-Algebra not comprehensive enough? How can 2 Pre-Algebra curriculum be so radically different in terms of difficulty?

 

And what should my next move be - should I go back to AoPs at all (he did love the videos)? 

Should I skip straight to an Algebra program for 7th grade now?

We went from AOPS pre-algebra to Dolciani. I didn't find the Dolciani too east for pre-algebra. DS went into Jacobs Algebra without any trouble.

 

2 programs can be so radically different bc they are coming at the math from 2 different styles. AOPS is more like competition math. It is an excellent program, but can be frustrating for some students--even mathy students. Some children love it, but it's okay if your child doesn't.

 

Regarding the algebra in 7th grade question--if you know what program you want to use, try to find a pre-test, administer it and see if he is ready.

[wapiti]

I can't think of much in between Dolciani and AoPS Prealgebra in terms of difficulty level (perhaps Russian Math 6?).  I'd just finish out Dolciani; it's pretty solid as far as I can tell.  After finishing Dolciani, perhaps spend a few weeks trying a sampling in AoPS Prealgebra and see how it goes, for a little work in problem solving.  Maybe try chapters 2, 5 and 15, and then move on to algebra 1.

[crazyforlatin]

I've looked through Dolciani, using it a couple of times. I think it's a great, solid book, and a student will have a firm foundation before moving on to Algebra. AOPS Pre-A is just on a different level, probably geared towards kids who will be doing math competitions and majoring in math. It's basically what you would do with a math tutor on top of your normal work. But there happens to be kids who just want to do this for every math lesson.

 

When AOPS no longer works for DD, I will be using Dolciani, Foerster, Jacobs or DM, and still be pleased with her math education. Admittedly she won't have the conceptual depth as AOPS students, but I also know many PhDs from Stanford and Harvard who did not use AOPS as kids (as it wasn't around). You can still be a scientist or an engineer and not have used AOPS.

 

When you are successfully done with Dolciani Pre-A, you should move to Algebra.

[crazyforlatin]

I do want to add that if Dolciani is easy for your child and he is breezing through it, it means that he has received a solid elementary math education, has a solid grasp of Pre-A concepts but that you may want to consider some problems from AOPS Pre-A (or from other books) to add a layer of challenge. Since you have the book, I would pick some problems during the summer before starting with algebra. It seems a waste to not use the book when it has a fantastic selection of problems from various math competitions.

[mirabillis]

I do want to add that if Dolciani is easy for your child and he is breezing through it, it means that he has received a solid elementary math education, has a solid grasp of Pre-A concepts but that you may want to consider some problems from AOPS Pre-A (or from other books) to add a layer of challenge. Since you have the book, I would pick some problems during the summer before starting with algebra. It seems a waste to not use the book when it has a fantastic selection of problems from various math competitions.

 

 

It does seem like a waste! That's what I was thinking. I'm not a huge curriculum junkie. What I buy, I use. So great idea! I think I'll try that. Perhaps Ch 2, 5 & 15 as suggested above!

 

:)

[kiana]

Dolciani is an excellent book with a comprehensive coverage of pre-algebra. It's just not insanely challenging like AOPS.

[Barb_]

I wouldn't skip through the chapters. Dolciani pre-algebra is the perfect foundation to Dolciani algebra I, which is a major jump, particularly the second half of the book. Dolciani Pre-algebra is where the math vocabulary and concepts are introduced that will be briefly glossed over in algebra I where prior knowledge is assumed. Go through the lessons thoroughly. Skip the A problems if you must, then do a scattering of b problems, at least half the c problems, and all the word problems you come across. You won't regret it.

[boscopup]

My son found Dolciani easy after doing AoPS. Thankfully, we were able to get back into AoPS after going back and forth during the first two AoPS chapters. Chapters 3 and up have been much easier, and my son doesn't melt into a puddle of goo when hitting a hard problem now. :) I just held his hand A LOT through the first two chapters. He took off in chapter 3 and has done 3-5 independently, and he hasn't needed to do any Dolciani since chapter 2. I think chapter 1 is the worst chapter. It is so esoteric. When I was going through it myself, I hated it also! Chapter 2 was much better, but it was hard for my son without a lot of experience with exponents, hence our brief jaunt through the exponent sections of Dolciani. After that, he came back to AoPS and finished the chapter much easier.

 

You might take a look at Singapore DM. I haven't seen it in person, but it looks like it might be harder than Dolciani.

[Momling]

Early on as a homeschooler, I skipped over a few topics in math that I was sure my daughter knew, only to find weird gaps later on. I have a fear of my kids missing essential skills or important practice and so I like them to work through all problems. It gives me peace of mind knowing we've done everything to be ready for the next step. So in your place, I would not skip anything. I would finish Dolciani and if I had more time, either go back to AOPS pre-algebra or start a supplementary math book like Zaccarro or Keys to Algebra. I just remind myself that review and practice is good with math and it's no race to the end.

[Crimson Wife]

You might take a look at Singapore DM. I haven't seen it in person, but it looks like it might be harder than Dolciani.

That's the impression I got after looking at a copy of Dolciani. At the beginning of this school year, I was looking for something to solidify a few areas of pre-algebra in between the 7th and 8th grade levels of Singapore DM. Dolciani seemed like a solid program but less challenging than DM.

 

I ended up doing a quick run-through of selected units from MEP years 7-9 using the "Express" (aka honors) track. I pre-tested with the diagnostic test and just used the units where she made conceptual errors (as opposed to calculation ones).

 

MEP has the advantage of being free while Singapore DM is pricey, especially if you get the workbook (which I do recommend getting for a bright student).

[sagira]

For an average student, I am sticking with Dolciani. This thread solidifies this/my choice for DS in 7th.

[mirabillis]

We do all the A, B & C problems. We're in Chapter on Area. Admittedly, we skipped through chapters on percents, ratio, proportion & rates as we covered these extensively in SM 4B-6A (some say the latter is essentially a Pre-A text). He did all chapter reviews/tests, and I felt if he didn't get any wrong, then he probably had the material mastered. We're entering new material, so with this and all other chapters, we do all odd-numbered problems.

 

I agree, after AoPs, probably anything is easy. ;) I may still review with AoPs Pre-A - and then move onto Algebra. Debating b/w Dolciani & AoPs at this point. We'll see. More research needs to be done.

 

But thanks for the consensus that Dolciani Pre-A is a complete Pre-A text and that his experience is probably after tackling AoPs first (discovery method was difficult for him - he likes it spoonfed, to begin with, having come through RightStart A-E)

 

 

[dauphin]

Early on as a homeschooler, I skipped over a few topics in math that I was sure my daughter knew, only to find weird gaps later on. I have a fear of my kids missing essential skills or important practice and so I like them to work through all problems. It gives me peace of mind knowing we've done everything to be ready for the next step. So in your place, I would not skip anything. I would finish Dolciani and if I had more time, either go back to AOPS pre-algebra or start a supplementary math book like Zaccarro or Keys to Algebra. I just remind myself that review and practice is good with math and it's no race to the end.

 

The first bolded part is me. Let's just make sure we cover -all- our bases, right? The problem? It has made her hate every math curriculum we have tried with the exception of some accelerated stuff (e.g., Hands On Equations, Dragonbox). Saxon was AWFUL, she was, like, "I know this stuff, YOU know I know this stuff, so why do I keep coming BACK to it?" kind of frustrated tears. I burned her out on Khan Academy and Math Mammoth and not because she couldn't do the work. It doesn't help that since pulling her from an individualized setting (Montessori), she has gone through a LOT of different curriculum in the past 1.5 years, so we haven't yet found our foundation that allows us to see that all bases are covered. Poor kid has taken a LOT of diagnostic tests. And yes there are some weird holes (couldn't work some Algebra word problems because she had never been introduced to the concept of ratio => tears) but not worth going back and completing an entire 4th grade or 5th grade curriculum in a linear fashion. But as to the second bolded, I think there IS a need to compress/reduce frustration with drill on material they know.that.they.know.that.they.know, but balance that against not moving too fast when the same child also doesn't handle challenging/difficult problems well (because they're used to math coming easily). 

[llifeon18wheels]

Where is the best place to buy a new copy of Dolciani Pre- Algebra? I looked on Google and I get Amazon and Abe Books but I don't know which printing I'm looking for or what is a normal price. Thanks, Michelle

[yvonne]

I got our Dolciani Pre-Algebra: An Accelerated Approach used/"like new" from amazon for $15 or $20.

[boscopup]

Where is the best place to buy a new copy of Dolciani Pre- Algebra? I looked on Google and I get Amazon and Abe Books but I don't know which printing I'm looking for or what is a normal price. Thanks, Michelle

 

I think it would be hard to find a "new" copy, since I don't think they're made anymore. I got the 1985 version off Amazon for $6 shipped, but I think they run closer to $10-12 now (I haven't checked in a while). The copy I got was a public school discard, and it didn't have any names written in it, so I don't think it had ever been used at the school. The one I have is titled Prealgebra: An Accelerated Course.