Trying not to worry about writing.....

[give_me_a_latte]

I know, I know.....don't compare a homeschool child's writing to a public school child's. I know that most homeschool writing programs (especially WWE) build necessary skills and will pay off later, even if the kids aren't "journaling" or what have you in the early years. But. BUT....

 

My son is 7.5. He hates handwriting. He can do it, but he loathes it. We were using WWE until the new rec's came out and I felt justified in setting it aside for now ;-) It was another one that he could do, but loathed. When he does a narration, sometimes he'll go on and on and on and I'm scribbling furiously to catch up. I know this counts as writing, especially in the BW mindset. But. BUT....

 

A friend had her daughter over a few weeks ago and she's about a month or two younger than my son. She wrote a story and gave it to us. It's a no joke story. Fully handwritten. Mostly all spelled correctly. I about died. And then today I'm poking around the Hive, and I'm noticing what kind of writing others are seeing from their 8 year olds....and I'm starting to worry! Am I missing the boat here? I can't even fathom having him write independently for ten minutes or so. At this point, I can't even imagine asking him to write anything independently. He does copy work, but like I said, he hates it. Should I be requiring more?!

 

I keep reminding myself not to compare him with the public school kid. And I keep thinking maybe those in here who are taking about their 8 year olds and writing are actually talking about their almost-9-year-olds!!! Maybe?!

 

In all seriousness....am I being too lax with writing?

[Ellie]

I know, I know.....don't compare a homeschool child's writing to a public school child's. I know that most homeschool writing programs (especially WWE) build necessary skills and will pay off later, even if the kids aren't "journaling" or what have you in the early years. But. BUT....

 

My son is 7.5. He hates handwriting. He can do it, but he loathes it. We were using WWE until the new rec's came out and I felt justified in setting it aside for now ;-) It was another one that he could do, but loathed. When he does a narration, sometimes he'll go on and on and on and I'm scribbling furiously to catch up. I know this counts as writing, especially in the BW mindset. But. BUT....

 

A friend had her daughter over a few weeks ago and she's about a month or two younger than my son. She wrote a story and gave it to us. It's a no joke story. Fully handwritten. Mostly all spelled correctly. I about died. And then today I'm poking around the Hive, and I'm noticing what kind of writing others are seeing from their 8 year olds....and I'm starting to worry! Am I missing the boat here? I can't even fathom having him write independently for ten minutes or so. At this point, I can't even imagine asking him to write anything independently. He does copy work, but like I said, he hates it. Should I be requiring more?!

 

I keep reminding myself not to compare him with the public school kid. And I keep thinking maybe those in here who are taking about their 8 year olds and writing are actually talking about their almost-9-year-olds!!! Maybe?!

 

In all seriousness....am I being too lax with writing?

 

I don't think you should compare your ds to other children. :-)

 

I don't think anyone should be required to keep a journal. I think a journal is something personal that people should do because they want to and that it should be relatively private.

 

You might give your ds a fountain pen to write with, and check his grip, his posture, and his paper placement. He may be using a death grip :-) and so his hand and arm get tired. If his hand grip is off, if his posture is poor, his arm and even his neck and back may hurt. Give him copywork while you're checking out those things. And quit comparing him. :-)

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with Ellie, on everything.  As for the little girl who came over, you didn't see the writing examples of everyone in her class.  Some kids just naturally start writing well at a young age.  I was one of those.  But neither of my kids (13 and 10) is, nor was my husband.  Are they learning to write?  Yes.  Did my husband learn to write?  Yes.  But it took them time.  Give your child the scaffolding, patience and gentle instruction he needs to feel successful but not overwhelmed.  He will get there with time.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Doodlebug]

I posted about writing curriculum earlier for my 8 year old son because I am angsty about writing.

 

I'm just a smudge into SWB's talk Writing With Ease in Elementary ( or something like that), and it almost immediately addresses that fear of comparing your child to PS kids who are pushed to write write write... Maybe you should try listening, too? It's made me feel better in ten minutes! Anything that does that is worth the $3.99! :D

 

Stella

[boscopup]

My oldest son doesn't like writing. At that age, he was barely copying a handful of sentences, and he definitely wasn't writing stories anytime soon! Now at 9 (will be 10 in June), he can write a page and a half narration (wide ruled, double spaced - so it's not THAT long)... "with ease". That was my goal by end of 4th grade, and we did it! :D

 

Spelling is still not great, though it's getting better and better. If he looks at his writing afterward, he can find and correct all the misspelled words pretty easily. So he knows how to spell them, but writing them spelled correctly in the first place isn't happening yet. I expect that to change as he matures more. We're also going to practice more dictation in our spelling.

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

Every kid is different.  My 8-year-old ds does write out by hand very elaborate stories that are spelled mostly correctly.  His older brother was allergic to his pencil at that age.  It was a struggle to get him to write one line.  Now, at 14, he prefers to type.  He has a tremendous command of the written word and writes stories and succinct summaries.  He corrects my spelling on occasion.  And looks over my shoulder to point out typos.

 

I would not compare your son to other kids, but try to see how he is doing on his own terms.  If he is improving, he is probably going to be fine.  Aim for quality over quantity.

[kwg]

When my ds was 8,  he was allergic to a pencil.  He is 11 now and writing a novel :)  ETA- not that it is a publish-worthy novel mind you but the point is, he is writing for enjoyment now.

 

We used WWE ( a year behind) and now WWS over two years (fifth and sixth).  Slow and steady!

[matrips]

My response will probably be different, but is just my opinion. I have two boys and a girl, all same age. Dd was always fine writing, doing copy work etc. the boys you would have thought it was a torture session. I could go two ways, lay off and hope it improved or force the issue. I forced it.

 

I figured one reason it was easier for her was she spent a lot more time coloring than them (ie had more practice and time spent in gripping), so her hand was stronger. I upped their coloring requirements so to speak, and since we don't spank, if they hit their sibling or something, they would need to write five (and then ten) times I will be nice to my sister/brother, or something like that. So at any random time of day, they could be writing.

 

We also did basic copy work. Within a year, their stamina improved and the grumbling lessened. They are now 9 years old and will easily and effortlessly write anything. They do quite a bit of writing between their math, spelling, handwriting, and writing programs and there is no griping about the actual writing part. I don't really think we'd be where we are if I didn't up the amount they had to write, and keep upping it as they became more capable. Again, just my opinion and maybe not a popular one. Perhaps they would be in the same position if I hadn't increased the the quantity of their writing; I just don't know. I had just been scared off by the numerous homeschoolers I had met who were still scribing for their boys at age twelve because the boys didn't like to write or complained too much.

[Guest]

There are at least two kinds of writing, according to my older boys, academic and creative. The former is torture for them and always has been. the latter comes naturally for both. I would not drop it. Play with Play-Doh more, color, paint, play LEGO. Give shorter copywork. But do not back down. 

[Incognito]

FWIW, I've ramped up the writing practice (we do copywork daily, WWE weekly, some writing in a LA reading book, and some writing in a phonics curriculum) and it has brought improvement in both my kids' writing stamina.  I bribe for the copywork (finish the book, get a dollar store prize).  HOWEVER, my older child still struggles quite a bit with writing, and there is something to it (we did testing recently).  It's hard to know how much to push and how much to relax, but I don't regret integrating more writing into what we do and bribing for the copywork.

 

 

[Tanikit]

I agree with Ellie that you should check that writing is not causing pain as if posture and grip are not correct now it can cause issues for years - even into adulthood - and even in children who appear to be writing very well and very fast, it can show up as sore wrists and ganglia at later stages of their lives.

 

When you are sure this is fine then I would start to gradually increase expectations. My DD was younger when I started to increase my expectations - she would happily write a 3 word sentence, but would never stretch it to longer than that, so I stuck a sticker on the number 3 and told her she could have a sticker on each number when she wrote that many words (we had numbers up to 20 on the wall). She did very well up to about 10 and then it stalled as she had reached her limit for that age. I left it for a while and then started asking her to write 2-3 sentences instead (mostly narration), but to get here I had her doing longer copywork also. Since she has been doing that I have been able to work on things like not starting every sentence with the same word and writing sentence lists versus writing a paragraph (she is not there yet though).

 

I think writing has a lot to do with expectations - most children don't just go from writing: "I like to swim." to writing whole stories overnight. Many children do have phases of development where things take off, but you can't always rely on that. 

 

Finally it has taken trial and error to figure out what makes my DD happier to write - what does she want to write about? She does need a topic or to do a narration - just telling her to write anything does not work at this point. She also does still need a lot of joint writing.

 

Copywork alone to increase stamina is a good idea - then you do not have the problems of original thought and not knowing how to spell - but you will still have to increase your expectations gradually to get him copying more and you may need to choose your own passages to get this right.

 

[give_me_a_latte]

Lots of great suggestions here, thank you. His pencil grip and posture are good. We've used HWT all along, and they really stress fine-tuning those things early on. He does minimal writing in math (we use RS), and since I dropped WWE I've had him do the copy work in FLL (I have the old edition). But I always choose the shortest copy work sentence. I could pull copy work from other subjects, and/or choose longer sentences. Maybe I'll start doing that gradually.

 

It definitely helps to read everyone's experiences, though. Makes me feel better!

[EndOfOrdinary]

My husband is an English teacher, who is a full on PS advocate.  It was by sheer grace that my son wound up being homeschooled (I am a rather large homeschool advocate.  There were battles.)  Anyway, so my son HATED writing.  Totally would force himself through it.  He would narrate and I would type or write.  He had atrocious handwriting because he just hated it.  I was majorly pushing it, because Dh was really worried.  I can understand where he was coming from.  It was his job to teach kids to write and here was his kid who was just not there.

 

I backed off.  I didn't make a big deal of stories, essays, nothing.  Most everything became oral narration - even spelling.  We talked about the forms of stories, or about the parts of a story (exposition, rising action, climax, falling action...those things).  We talked about what happens in a story with characters, plot, types of conflict.  No writing.  Lots of reading and enjoying language.  Serious grammar study.  No writing.  Dh wasn't thrilled, but he had to admit the kid was learning writing stuff even if he wasn't actually writing.

 

At 9.5, I have no idea what happened.  The other day my son shows me a "Prologue" he has written about a wizard and his oversize turquoise tortoise.  Even my husband had to admit it was really well written.  Ds wrote five pages long hand, no skipped lines, for a grant proposal he wanted to turn in.  It had to be legible and it was.  He still likes me to type longer essays, but he is now writing his own outlines and getting his base paragraphs written himself.  He needed time.  For some reason the idea of writing himself was just not okay.  I have a feeling in 2 years you will never know that the kid was completely adverse.  He is asking to learn to touch type next year so that he can compose his own stuff....and talk to people faster in MineCraft.

I cannot tell you that this will happen with your child, but learning about writing was not an issue here.  It was the act of writing.  So we just put it away for a while and it was all he needed.  It needed to be his idea.  He needed to feel comfortable.  Just learn about writing for now. 

[deerforest]

I'm a professional writer and DD is "behind" in writing. It's unfair to say this because I haven't really pushed it because we were focusing on grammar, spelling, and handwriting because she was such a perfectionist and would hate to have to correct anything. We slowly started to add in Bravewriter type approach, she started writing in a journal occasionally, but it just kinda felt like she was spinning in circles.

 

I decided she needed to at least grasp the concept of a paragraph. We tried a few things and finally I tried the Paragraph Book. We went through it at a faster speed than they probably assume, but the original pace was too slow for DD. About half-way through it DD asked if she could use other words except "First, Next, Then, Finally" and I said of course! It didn't really introduce the concept of a topic sentence or intro (in those words), closing paragraphs (the last lesson was an essay), and the whole book focused only on the "how to" paragraph.

 

But, it was actually a good fit for her because she likes to make DIY videos, which are basically "how to" narrations. She wrote about all kinds of things she liked--we never used their suggested topics.

 

Today she finally finished her first 5 paragraph essay--How to Make a Clay Pot. (She's been doing wheel throwing ceramics classes for the past 3-4 years). We had corrections, but she surprised me by how strong her spelling was in most places, and her grammar and mechanics were good too! She didn't flip out about the corrections either! It was like the angels were singing as we finally saw all those pieces come together.

 

The best thing was seeing her writer's voice blossom. Even with these incessant "how to" paragraphs, we discovered she has a lovely and hilarious writing voice. It's amazing!

 

Granted, her stamina is still an issue (though I'm starting to be convinced it's more attitude than stamina but we are in the midst of testing for processing speed issues so we'll see), but SHE WROTE AN ESSAY! FINALLY!

 

So, it happens. One day. Eventually.

 

The hilarious thing is... we just started the essay last week. As I said, she's in the middle of a bunch of testing (with therapist, IQ, achievement, neuropsych, etc.), and she came home from testing on Tuesday and said she had to write an essay. We both just started laughing because a week earlier she would have had no clue. She said she got to the middle of the second paragraph in 10 minutes. Oh well. :-)

[Farrar]

I have really been amazed how much my kids have grown in their writing from two years ago - they're 9.5 yo now.  Two years ago, they could write a sentence or two, but nothing worth reading.  Now, they both write these wonderful little stories and cute freewrites.  They both have such strong voice and sense of humor.  They can sit down and write a page without any fuss or too much effort, which is so different from a couple of years ago.

 

It's sooooo hard to keep your eyes on your own work, isn't it?  But really, they do catch up and surpass.  You're putting your efforts in the right places.

[freesia]

I have really been amazed how much my kids have grown in their writing from two years ago - they're 9.5 yo now.  Two years ago, they could write a sentence or two, but nothing worth reading.  Now, they both write these wonderful little stories and cute freewrites.  They both have such strong voice and sense of humor.  They can sit down and write a page without any fuss or too much effort, which is so different from a couple of years ago.

 

It's sooooo hard to keep your eyes on your own work, isn't it?  But really, they do catch up and surpass.  You're putting your efforts in the right places.

This exactly. I taught second grade in 2 countries--one public,one private school. There is a HUGE variation of writing among 7 year olds--huge. Some came in writing pages of beautifully written, well spelled words. Some came in using inventive spelling and were doing well to come up with 2 sentences and maybe punctuate them.

 

This same dynamic has occurred in my children, as well. It was torture for both boys to write at 7. By closer to 9,guess what? They could write much more easily. That's why,if you look at ps curriculum the jump between second and fourth grade (in terms of output) is very large. My first son is in eighth grade now and he writes well. He was at your sons level at 7. Keep taking one step at a time. You can torture yourself (and him) and try to require more writing, paragraphs, etc. or you can wait a year and teach him the same in a fraction of the time. I am now on child number 2 of the former plan and he is coming along quite well.

[Ritsumei]

It's sooooo hard to keep your eyes on your own work, isn't it?  But really, they do catch up and surpass.  You're putting your efforts in the right places.

 

 

This. is SO true.

 

I'm in the same boat. I'm trying to decide if my 7.5yo is a late bloomer, or is there something going on with him. I don't know. It's kind of stressing me out. He can narrate a lovely little piece, but if I ask him to write the first sentence out, it is so hard.