Tell me about homeschooling life for non-military expats

[meena]

My husband is considering taking a job in Panama. If he does accept the position he's been offered, we have the option for him to commute, for us to move there with him full-time, or to spend part of the time where we live now and part of the time in Panama. We would love the opportunity of being immersed in another culture, but I have reservations about how it would work out from an academic perspective. From what I've read, we wouldn't have any legal problems if we continue to homeschool. But it seems that we might be at risk of isolating ourselves since homeschooling doesn't seem to be a popular choice there. It seems that a lot of expat families are either retired (so no school-age children) or sending their kids to private schools. So my first question is, as an expat what are the best ways to connect with other families in a place where we might be the only homeschoolers?

 

We are planning for my husband to possibly keep this job for 5 years, which will put my older children at high school/almost graduating at the end of that time. So my next question is, would we lose our rights to state residency for college tuition purposes? Would they be eligible for state scholarships (Bright Futures here in FL)? Would it make any difference if we moved full-time or traveled back and forth? I think that even though we intend to keep our house here in the US, we would no longer meet residency requirements. If that is correct, that could potentially a deal-breaker for him taking this job because he would not be paid enough to make up for out-of-state tuition x 3 children.

 

Finally, I would love to hear just any general experiences (the good, the bad, the ugly!) about homeschooling as an expat, especially those who are non-military. Thanks!

[Mrs Mungo]

My husband is considering taking a job in Panama. If he does accept the position he's been offered, we have the option for him to commute, for us to move there with him full-time, or to spend part of the time where we live now and part of the time in Panama. We would love the opportunity of being immersed in another culture, but I have reservations about how it would work out from an academic perspective. From what I've read, we wouldn't have any legal problems if we continue to homeschool. But it seems that we might be at risk of isolating ourselves since homeschooling doesn't seem to be a popular choice there. It seems that a lot of expat families are either retired (so no school-age children) or sending their kids to private schools. So my first question is, as an expat what are the best ways to connect with other families in a place where we might be the only homeschoolers?

We are military, but knew a lot of civilian ex-pats in Germany. Most of them had their kids in classes, sports and clubs (but most of them absolutely had their kids in private schools).

 

 

So my next question is, would we lose our rights to state residency for college tuition purposes?

Yes. This even applies to a lot of states when you are military. Only certain states extend resident tuition to military members and their dependents.

 

 

Would they be eligible for state scholarships (Bright Futures here in FL)?

I don't know much about the Florida program, but I know that to qualify for the Texas program, dh has to have kept his state of record as Texas, retire, and we have to live in Texas for a year.

 

 

Would it make any difference if we moved full-time or traveled back and forth?

Generally speaking, it is based upon your primary residence.

[nomadgirl]

We have been living in Mexico homeschooling. It actually isn't to hard to meet others. Go where the locals go. Take every opportunity to go to community gatherings. Live amongst the locals not the expats. Go to the park. There will be plenty of activities to put you kids in. We put my son in an art class and he met tons of kids. He didn't want to take the class but we encouraged him to do things that he usually wouldn't do. He met kids and enjoyed the class. Make the best of it and don't expect it to be like the US, make it a learning experience.

[alef]

We are military, but knew a lot of civilian ex-pats in Germany. Most of them had their kids in classes, sports and clubs (but most of them absolutely had their kids in private schools).

What is the legal situation of civilian military employees homeschooling in Germany? I know active duty military families can homeschool legally because they are in a special legal category under the Status of Armed Forces agreement. Does this extend to the families of civilian DOD employees?

 

(OP, I apologize for the slight hijack. I've been wondering about this for a long time and Mrs Mungo's post made me think she might know the answer.)

[Mom in High Heels]

We knew loads of non-military homeschoolers in Germany.  They were also involved in the local military homeschool group, which might be an option depending on where you are in Panama.  

 

As for losing eligibility, it depends.  My dad was a legal resident of FL, while he was in the military.  We were living in IL when I graduated high school, but FL allowed me instate tuition.  I ended up not going to school in FL, but had I, I would have qualified.  Whether they still do that or not, I can't tell you.  I would check with the state.  If they don't it might be worth it for you to  live part time in Panama and part time in FL.

[Mom in High Heels]

What is the legal situation of civilian military employees homeschooling in Germany? I know active duty military families can homeschool legally because they are in a special legal category under the Status of Armed Forces agreement. Does this extend to the families of civilian DOD employees?

 

(OP, I apologize for the slight hijack. I've been wondering about this for a long time and Mrs Mungo's post made me think she might know the answer.)

 

Yes, it does.  As an employee of the gov't stationed overseas, you would fall under the SOFA agreement, and you can legally homeschool.

[Lanny]

IMHO, you would face *severe* problems, with the I.R.S., if you try to be Overseas Americans, and residents of the USA, at the same time. If you are Section 911 qualified (the exemption of a certain amount of income for qualified Overseas Americans), you would probably lose your Florida residence, with regard to in state tuition, scholarships, etc. You should have your C.P.A. who does income taxes, or an I.R.S. "Enrolled Agent", investigate that issue for you, before signing any papers to take the  position.

 

Cali is about 1 hour and 5 minutes from Panama City. COPA, the Panamian airline is excellent.

 

There are a lot of Americans and other foreigners who live in Panama and they drive up the prices.

 

Go down there and take a look. It is very close and there are nonstop flights from various U.S. cities.  If you and your DH and your DC like what you see, make the move. The life in Latin America will be very different than what you are accustomed to in the USA and you will either love it or hate it.  The food here is fresh and I'm sure it is the same in Panama. Medical care here is excellent and probably the same in Panama. I assume the cost of living in Panama is much higher than it is here in Colombia, because of the foreigners who live there and also because it is a very small country and there isn't a lot of land to build on. We haven't been in Panama City, but we have been in/out of Tocumen Airport and I probably still have 2nd cousins who are Panamanian citizens.

 

If you do make the move, be sure to register with the ACS (American Citizen Services) of the U.S. Embassy.  GL

[Mrs Mungo]

What is the legal situation of civilian military employees homeschooling in Germany? I know active duty military families can homeschool legally because they are in a special legal category under the Status of Armed Forces agreement. Does this extend to the families of civilian DOD employees?

DoD employees generally fall under the SOFA, so their kids can go to DoD schools, homeschool, whatever. However, most contractors do not fall under the SOFA. I didn't know any contractors who homeschooled, they all had their kids in private schools. BUT, I was involved in other groups and met a lot of ex-pat Brits who were homeschooling illegally. The government seems to sort of look the other way where citizens of other countries are concerned.

[Starr]

Couldn't you move back for a year before your kids start college or take a gap year. A lot can happen in 4 or 5 years.

[Happy]

We lived and homeschooled in Belgium and were most definitely non-military. We were fortunate to find a small and wonderful homeschool group in the area. It was evenly divided between expats and natives so a lovely chance to experience a wide range of people.

 

Our biggest difficulty (if you want to call it that) was finding an English language bookstore for reading material. We did, though, and loved it. Dh also brought back tons of books from his occasional trips back home. I'd order and have them delivered to an address in Texas, he would pick them up and bring them to us.

 

Living and schooling overseas was a wonderful experience. I'd say go for it!

 

 

[Mom in High Heels]

DoD employees generally fall under the SOFA, so their kids can go to DoD schools, homeschool, whatever. However, most contractors do not fall under the SOFA. I didn't know any contractors who homeschooled, they all had their kids in private schools. BUT, I was involved in other groups and met a lot of ex-pat Brits who were homeschooling illegally. The government seems to sort of look the other way where citizens of other countries are concerned.

 

A lot of the members in our hs group in Heidelberg and Wiesbaden were DOD contractors.  

[Laura Corin]

We did a couple of things to connect with other children when we lived in China.  The first was to live in an apartment complex with lots of other children, rather than in a house - we chose to live surrounded by Chinese families, so the boys made Chinese friends and worked on their fluency in the language.

 

Our second tactic was to join scouts.  There is no affiliated Chinese scouting organisation, so there was an American scouting troop.  Both boys were involved, and I ran a cubscout den for a while.

 

There was a home education group in the city, which we attended periodically.  The ideological difference between us and them were so great (they were all missionaries; I'm not) that even when there was goodwill on both sides, there weren't many points of similarity.

 

I can't help you on the residency: one of the reasons that we moved to the UK when we did was to gain residency for the boys' university years.

 

Four years in China (and the preceding seven years in Hong Kong) were very good for the whole family.  I don't regret it at all.

 

L

[Mrs Mungo]

A lot of the members in our hs group in Heidelberg and Wiesbaden were DOD contractors.

I should say where and when we lived in Germany, the contractors were mostly not covered under the SOFA. I think it depends upon what their specific job is and how they are hired.

[nd293]

We tried homeschooling as expats in the Middle East. I believe there were 6 families homeschooling in the whole country, and there did not seem to be an inclusive group willing to welcome newcomers.

 

We opted for an IB international school, which was the best thing we could possibly have done. We had a wonderful experience. Really, all socialising was done through schools. There might have been some socialising through churches, but as this avenue wasn't open to us, homeschooling would have been very isolating. (Dd was in fact home for the first 2 years, but by the age of 4 all the other children were in school full time, and we only lasted one year at home after that before it became too lonely.)

[Lanny]

Assuming that part of the motivation for your family to consider a position for your DH working outside the USA, and, that the position is not working for the U.S. Government, or a Contractor to the U.S. government, you must thoroughly understand I.R.S. Section 911 and what that requires of Overseas Americans, in order to qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. Here is a link to the I.R.S. web site:

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion

 

I doubt that him commuting back and forth to Florida, to visit your family will hack it. Probably the only way for your DC to maintain residence in Florida, with regard to in state university tuition and possible  scholarships, would be for you and your DC to remain in Florida, so that you and your children maintain your Florida residency, and that your DH change his residency to Panama, so that he qualifies for I.R.S. Section 911. That separation, IMHO, for five (5) years, would be horrible for your family.

 

You really need to contact an Attorney and/or C.P.A./I.R.S. Enrolled Agent who has experience with I.R.S. Section 911 and with the requirements  your DC will need to meet, for in state Florida tuition. GL

 

ETA: Overseas Americans who are qualified for I.R.S. Section 911 are exempt from the need to purchase ObamaCare health insurance

[Camelfeet]

We are currently non-military expats homeschooling in Dubai.  There is a very active and fairly large homeschooling community here.  I just googled and found the group, contacted them and then joined.  Perhaps there are more homeschoolers than you think?  

Benefits:  Saving money on private school tuition, flexibility to travel during non-peak times, flexibility to go out and explore the town during non-peak times.  Then there are the usual benefits to homeschooling that apply everywhere.  

Cons: Getting supplies is very difficult and you need to plan ahead carefully, shipping is expensive and many items are difficult to ship through customs.     

 

Can't help you with the other questions as we aren't American.

 

[Amira]

We're not military and have homeschooled twice in Kyrgyzstan in the past, and now we're homeschooling in Mexico. In Kyrgyzstan we had no choice but to homeschool since we couldn't afford to send our children to an international school, and there is very little support for non-Russian speaking children in the public schools in the places we lived.

 

The first time in Kyrgyzstan we only had two children and they were 4 and 6 when we arrived there. Looking back, I wish we'd done a little more to get them involved with activities in Bishkek, but we also really focused on reading that year, and throwing Russian and the Cyrillic alphabet into the mix wouldn't have helped. They did go to chess classes and art classes twice a week, but we were home a lot. I know there were some homeschoolers around, but we weren't connected with any sort of expat community and didn't make an effort to find homeschoolers.

 

The second time in Kyrgyzstan we had three children and we were in a much smaller town. There were other interesting challenges there, but our kids were still able to play Legos and various sports with the neighbor kids, even with the language differences. Still, they were pretty isolated, so we moved to Bishkek after 8 months where they were able to do after-school activities with one of the international schools. That worked out really well and that year in Bishkek was really good for everyone in many ways.

 

We never were able to take more than our two suitcases each to Kyrgyzstan, and we never had a trip to the US while we were there where we could stock up on anything, and we didn't have a reliable way to have anything mailed to us, so we homeschooled with very little stuff. It wasn't easy, but it was certainly possible, and that last year in Bishkek was easily our best year yet.

 

It's very different here in Mexico. Our financial situation is totally different, we actually know some expats this time, and there are so many more activities for our kids. Our teenagers take rock climbing and mountain biking classes, they hang out with the neighbors all the time, they go hiking, and much more. But we still don't hang out with other homeschoolers since there aren't many in our city. Since we never were part of a homeschooling group in the US either, it doesn't really matter to us.

 

As for state residency, that depends on so many different things. We've usually wanted to drop the state residency because we didn't want to pay state taxes while living overseas (some states are pretty fanatic about getting their tax money, even if you might not owe federal taxes). But Florida is more flexible about that. If you're in Panama part time, it's likely you could keep your residency in Florida, especially since you'd still own property there. Even if you go full-time, it's not impossible to legally keep your residence, but you'd have to check into state laws. You could also reestablish residency during your oldest child's senior year as others have mentioned, or even a little later and only pay one year of out-of-state tuition. Unless you completely move to Panama for a long, long time, you're not going to have to pay out-of-state tuition for all your children for their entire time in school.

 

I love homeschooling internationally. We've had some interesting challenges and also some great experiences. I'd go to Panama in a heartbeat (if I weren't already in another country!). Good luck!

[TheReader]

It really depends on the environment/atmosphere where you'll be. I have friends who are non-military ex-pats in the UAE (Abu Dhabi) and they have a very active home school group. I have a friend in Jordan who likewise is part of a large home school co-op. Yet when we were in Brazil, it was not done, and we were incredibly isolated. 

 

If you are able to integrate with the locals, you will find friends. We found it hard to do so, as it was difficult to move beyond being seen as "the Americans" and people willing to get to know us on a personal level vs. a novelty level. It was difficult to integrate with the ex-pats since we were not tied into the school. For the most part, we had one or two families who we were friends with (and that was transient; the ex-pat community is a flowing, changing thing) and that was it. Sometimes none, sometimes two families at a time. 

 

Re: college in-state tuition, you will need to read the college websites to see what guidelines they have. Most require you to be living in-state for 12 months prior to the start of the college enrollment. It is one of the reasons we moved back to the US when we did. Some schools do allow you to live out of state/out of country "if the move was temporary with return to this state always the intent, usually for a period no greater than ......" --- we met the temporary, always intending to return bit, but not the "period no greater than..." bit, so we asked to return early.

 

Re: the tuition/scholarship program, definitely read up on that. Possibly the same would apply; as long as you move back with sufficient time prior to the start of college, it should be okay. 

 

Re: taxes and address and such; we were able to take the tax exemption while living in Brazil and visiting once/year to the US; there are guidelines/laws about how many days of the year must be spent out of the country for your residency to qualify you for the tax exemption (the first x amount of income is not considered taxable income); you'll want to look into that and see what the relationship/guideline is with Panama on that. Lonny's right. 

 

We did *not* find it easy to join local activities, as much is offered through the schools. If you are able, talk to people who live/work in the area you'd move to and find out from them what's available. It's a big decision. 

 

I will say -- despite all the isolation we experienced, despite all the downsides, despite periods of having literally no local friends, at all, we are glad we went. It was hard, but it was good. Better than good. We were in Brazil for 6 yrs, our boys went from ages 10, 6 and 2 to ages 16, 13 and almost 8. Our oldest is midway through his sophomore year of high school (we just moved back), so I get what you're worried about. I would still, knowing everything we'd go through, all the isolation, all the struggle --- I would still do it all over again. It was absolutely worth it. It won't look like, feel like, be like life in the US. At all. But it will be amazing and life changing.