rzberrymom Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 My DD (almost 9) is obsessed with piano and plays for 60-90 minutes on most days. She just devours everything her teacher gives her and gets a huge thrill with each new song. Her teacher insists on slowing her down though, and my DD finds it really discouraging--she'll give her some big, difficult song that is so inspiring for my DD, and then the next week she'll give her something very simplistic and embarrassingly simple for my DD. My kiddo will grudgingly plod through it, and then she'll often be asked to repeat it for a few more weeks. I asked the teacher about it, and she says she's concerned about rushing through things. I asked her if there were concerns about technique or something else that would warrant the slow down, but that wasn't it. Thing is, my kid doesn't see it as rushing--she just wants to play all the time, and so she naturally goes through things quickly. I thought it could be that this woman hasn't dealt with many homeschoolers, and so maybe she's not used to kids with time on their hands. lol So, for those with experience with piano, would there be a good reason to slow a kid down? Is there something I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If she is mastering the skills at each level and there is no problem with technique or performance, I don't understand why the teacher wants to take it slowly. My daughter has a friend of 12 who is busy preparing for her grade 8 piano exams (don't know if works the same in the USA, but it is the highest music exam level here before a teaching licensiate). She did two exams per year when she started at 7, where most kids who take exams do only one a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaOz Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I'm a piano teacher and I agree with Hannah. If there's no problem with her mastery of skills and technique in what she's already learning then let her go for it. She's obviously got a love for it and the ability too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Our teacher is very good about following her student's cues. If a student wants to play Batman themes or Billy Joel, she lets them do that as long as they have at least some work going on that broadens their technique. My oldest is preparing for competition next month, so she has those pieces she's working on and then her teacher had her pick something else more modern to keep her motivated. My teen practices 1-2 hours a day, with 2/3 of that on her modern piece because that's the favorite. Frankly at this point if the teacher wasn't that way, I'd be looking elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsiew Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I would press the teacher a little further to see if she has a good reason... technique, etc. If not, I would find another teacher... your dd obviously is talented and loves playing. I would do anything to encourage that! As a violin teacher I give anything to teach this student! Isn't that what we want to develop in our musicians? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I do see one concern with going too fast, and that is that the repertoire needs to be picked appropriately for the child's hand size at the time. Pianists are at risk for repetitive motion injuries, and stretching too much, too early, can make that more likely, so maybe the teacher is trying to give your DD some "rest weeks" with less strenuous repertoire on the physical side, since she is practicing for what would normally be quite long periods for a child her age. I would expect the teacher to verbalize that to you, though. It is also possible that the teacher is picking some of the simpler repertoire to focus on musicality or other skills that are less technical in nature. Again, though, that should be clearly stated as to WHY this is the choice for your daughter-what the goal for each piece is. I don't necessarily see a red-flag in what your DD's teacher is doing. I do think that she needs to explain WHY she's making these choices and actively involve your DD in the process. If she can't do that, you need to look elsewhere. Most teachers rarely if ever see an independently motivated child and therefore don't realize that a young child can really be THAT driven-and some adults are almost scared by drive and determination in a child. You may want to look, if you have a college nearby, for a faculty member simply because music majors ARE those independently motivated kids, grown up, and therefore they're used to teaching the self-motivated student (and also to teaching adults who are going to demand an explanation as to WHY an unusually easy piece is being picked). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Can you give us an example of repertoire? Different pieces develop different skills. Slower, "easier" ones might have quite a lot of phrasing work, others work on different technical aspects. The big concern is to make sure muscles/strength is developing alongside. I have seen kids break fingers or not have proper hand positioning playing difficult pieces. Under that scenario, I would slow a child down and work on sculpting the hands well before moving on. Sometimes it's hard to do both (difficult pieces and nuance) at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm37 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I have one that loves to play like this. I just bought her some extra music books that were on her level so she could have some variety. She still plays all the time and is the worship leader at our church now at age 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzberrymom Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 I do see one concern with going too fast, and that is that the repertoire needs to be picked appropriately for the child's hand size at the time. Pianists are at risk for repetitive motion injuries, and stretching too much, too early, can make that more likely, so maybe the teacher is trying to give your DD some "rest weeks" with less strenuous repertoire on the physical side, since she is practicing for what would normally be quite long periods for a child her age. I would expect the teacher to verbalize that to you, though. It is also possible that the teacher is picking some of the simpler repertoire to focus on musicality or other skills that are less technical in nature. Again, though, that should be clearly stated as to WHY this is the choice for your daughter-what the goal for each piece is. I don't necessarily see a red-flag in what your DD's teacher is doing. I do think that she needs to explain WHY she's making these choices and actively involve your DD in the process. If she can't do that, you need to look elsewhere. Most teachers rarely if ever see an independently motivated child and therefore don't realize that a young child can really be THAT driven-and some adults are almost scared by drive and determination in a child. You may want to look, if you have a college nearby, for a faculty member simply because music majors ARE those independently motivated kids, grown up, and therefore they're used to teaching the self-motivated student (and also to teaching adults who are going to demand an explanation as to WHY an unusually easy piece is being picked). Ok, this is definitely what I needed to hear. I'll press her more about whether it's a hand size issue. I kind of think it's not--she's only working on ABRSM Syllabus level 3 songs (she's just now having to move her hands to another spot in the middle of the song). I did think about the technical skills issue. Her igloo shape hands have been perfect according to the teacher, and her fingering has been good. I've been wracking my brain to figure out what these songs could be teaching her--I haven't been able to see it at all, but I'm no expert. lol This morning, I talked with my DD about how she probably needs to talk with her teacher this coming week about how discouraging this is for her. It hasn't been working for me to try to convey it, as she gave her 5 new songs this week and two were very simple (and my kiddo is mad). I kind of think you hit the nail on the head about not realizing a kid can be self-motivated. And in that way, maybe it really will help for my DD to assert herself. I hate to have to get another teacher (she's 5 minutes from my house, she's very gentle and my DD really likes her otherwise). But I like the idea of checking with the local colleges if we can't get this figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzberrymom Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 The big concern is to make sure muscles/strength is developing alongside. I have seen kids break fingers or not have proper hand positioning playing difficult pieces. Under that scenario, I would slow a child down and work on sculpting the hands well before moving on. Sometimes it's hard to do both (difficult pieces and nuance) at the same time. Her teacher has told her that her hand positioning (in the igloo shape) is perfect, and she's mentioned a couple times how relieved she is that my DD is doing it properly and wouldn't need to break any bad habits. Is that where the muscle/strength comes in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzberrymom Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 I would do anything to encourage that! As a violin teacher I give anything to teach this student! Isn't that what we want to develop in our musicians? :-) I know, right?? And to me, this is also what is so great about homeschooling! I'm trying so hard to not let the teacher chase the joy away. I've thought about taking a 6 month or year-long break from lessons, just to let her play and play and play joyfully! (and maybe look for a teacher that "gets it" in the meantime) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Her teacher has told her that her hand positioning (in the igloo shape) is perfect, and she's mentioned a couple times how relieved she is that my DD is doing it properly and wouldn't need to break any bad habits. Is that where the muscle/strength comes in? That's great. Sometimes it's harder to keep good hand position with difficult pieces for kids because they simply haven't played enough years to have the muscles built up. I have seen funny things happen with my son's hands with fast Kabalevsky etudes, so that's why I was wondering which pieces she was working on. Based on what you said so far, this doesn't seem to be an issue. I don't see any other reason to hold a kid back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzberrymom Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 That's great. Sometimes it's harder to keep good hand position with difficult pieces for kids because they simply haven't played enough years to have the muscles built up. I have seen funny things happen with my son's hands with fast Kabalevsky etudes, so that's why I was wondering which pieces she was working on. Based on what you said so far, this doesn't seem to be an issue. I don't see any other reason to hold a kid back. Ah, got it. The fastest thing she's had to do is an Etude by Louis Kohler--she learned it in a day, didn't complain about her hands at all, and the teacher let her move on after 1 week with that one. It's weird--it's the really simple things out of a Leonard Piano Solos book that she'll make her repeat for several weeks, while the Etude seems to satisfy the teacher and she gets to move on. My DD is kind of convinced the woman is out to get her. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Ah, got it. The fastest thing she's had to do is an Etude by Louis Kohler--she learned it in a day, didn't complain about her hands at all, and the teacher let her move on after 1 week with that one. It's weird--it's the really simple things out of a Leonard Piano Solos book that she'll make her repeat for several weeks, while the Etude seems to satisfy the teacher and she gets to move on. My DD is kind of convinced the woman is out to get her. lol Any chance she is trying to perfect her tone and phrasing? I am running out of excuses. :) What are her credentials? If your daughter is so motivated, look for the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzberrymom Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Any chance she is trying to perfect her tone and phrasing? I am running out of excuses. :) What are her credentials? If your daughter is so motivated, look for the best! She was recommended by some folks that do the ABRSM testing here, she's had oodles of students for 30 years here, and she's really popular. Maybe I should have found out more! My DDs take on it at dinner tonight is that because she's been doing it a certain way for 30 years, she's determined to keep doing it that way even when my DD asks her to not make her slow down. Writing this out, maybe I do need to find someone else. I'll ask her about tone and phrasing this week too. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diokos Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Sometimes the "simple"pieces are deceptive...it sounds like your dd's technique is very well developed, and it's my hunch that your teacher is working to develop the musicality beyond that technical skill. If she's assigning 5 pieces a week and 3 of them are the types that your dd enjoys more (more challenging) and two of them are easier then the teacher is not really out to get her or trying to hold her back. As far as the repeating of the easier ones, I'm guessing that those are not the songs that your dd spends the majority of those hours of practice working on. Your dd does not see the point of them and spends her time on the pieces she enjoys more. Speaking from experience, both as a former student who did the same thing and as a current teacher who sees her students still trying that. I'd encourage you to stick with your dd's teacher. Focus on the abilities your child has already developed. It sounds as though she is very, very advanced for one so young. This obviously is partly due to your dd's hard work, but it also takes a teacher that knows what she is doing to guide your student this far. Trust the process, even when you don't understand it. This teacher did not get to 30 years and oodles of happy students in her profession without understanding different types of students and different levels of motivation. One other thing to think about is that piano lessons have opportunity to develop much more in your daughter than piano proficiency. Use these simple songs that are not so fun to encourage your dd in perseverance, in working just as hard on things that are not fun as things that are. If you are still uncomfortable, try to talk to your dd's teacher when your dd is not present. She may feel hesitant to tell you certain things in front of your dd for fear of discouraging her. For example, (not saying at all that this was the problem, but I will use the example of technique). If your dd's teacher said that her technique needed strengthening, would your dd get home and cry because all these hours of practice were not producing the perfection she demanded of herself? Sometimes...often... highly motivated students are like that! Rather than sending your dd into 3 hours of frenzied, determined practice every day, the teacher may intuitively know that your dd would be best served by reminders that she's doing great and moving in the right direction, while giving these simple pieces to begin to work on any weaknesses. The types of students that I personally do not hesitate to tell the parents that something needs work, with the student present, are the students who either a) do not practice as I have told them to, or b) spend lots of time playing things in the way they deem best, while refusing to address the rhythm or technical, or whatever issues that I've pointed out for several months. In other words, they are the students who are not progressing because they are refusing to do what I've asked them to do. It does not sound at all to me like your dd is in that camp!! Great job, Mama, on raising such a hard working and determined young lady! She will go places some day-likely in music, but also in other areas, because of her strength of character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzberrymom Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Sometimes the "simple"pieces are deceptive...it sounds like your dd's technique is very well developed, and it's my hunch that your teacher is working to develop the musicality beyond that technical skill. If she's assigning 5 pieces a week and 3 of them are the types that your dd enjoys more (more challenging) and two of them are easier then the teacher is not really out to get her or trying to hold her back. As far as the repeating of the easier ones, I'm guessing that those are not the songs that your dd spends the majority of those hours of practice working on. Your dd does not see the point of them and spends her time on the pieces she enjoys more. Speaking from experience, both as a former student who did the same thing and as a current teacher who sees her students still trying that. I'd encourage you to stick with your dd's teacher. Focus on the abilities your child has already developed. It sounds as though she is very, very advanced for one so young. This obviously is partly due to your dd's hard work, but it also takes a teacher that knows what she is doing to guide your student this far. Trust the process, even when you don't understand it. This teacher did not get to 30 years and oodles of happy students in her profession without understanding different types of students and different levels of motivation. One other thing to think about is that piano lessons have opportunity to develop much more in your daughter than piano proficiency. Use these simple songs that are not so fun to encourage your dd in perseverance, in working just as hard on things that are not fun as things that are. If you are still uncomfortable, try to talk to your dd's teacher when your dd is not present. She may feel hesitant to tell you certain things in front of your dd for fear of discouraging her. For example, (not saying at all that this was the problem, but I will use the example of technique). If your dd's teacher said that her technique needed strengthening, would your dd get home and cry because all these hours of practice were not producing the perfection she demanded of herself? Sometimes...often... highly motivated students are like that! Rather than sending your dd into 3 hours of frenzied, determined practice every day, the teacher may intuitively know that your dd would be best served by reminders that she's doing great and moving in the right direction, while giving these simple pieces to begin to work on any weaknesses. The types of students that I personally do not hesitate to tell the parents that something needs work, with the student present, are the students who either a) do not practice as I have told them to, or b) spend lots of time playing things in the way they deem best, while refusing to address the rhythm or technical, or whatever issues that I've pointed out for several months. In other words, they are the students who are not progressing because they are refusing to do what I've asked them to do. It does not sound at all to me like your dd is in that camp!! Great job, Mama, on raising such a hard working and determined young lady! She will go places some day-likely in music, but also in other areas, because of her strength of character. Ok, I'll definitely ask her what the songs are teaching her in terms of musicality. The thing is, the songs are not slightly easier--they're the kind of song she would have done a year ago. I'm trying really hard to have faith in this process, but I guess I can see where my DD is coming from in being discouraged by that. She definitely doesn't spend the majority of her time on them, but it still does take a decent amount of time to slog through them and then maintain the quality until lesson day comes around. The kid has definitely figured out perseverance already, but I think even I would have trouble going along with these assignments. But, I will try harder to trust the process! Yes, I usually talk to the teacher when my DD is not present. The funny thing is that my DD prefers to get some negative feedback from the teacher but can't get it from her--she senses that the teacher's constant praise is fake--she has told me repeatedly that she would prefer to hear when a song is not good, so that when she is praised for a song she knows that it REALLY is good. Perhaps it's the age, where kids start picking up on adults being less than forthcoming. Point is, you're definitely right that the only way I can get the full story from the teacher is when we're away from my DD. Thank you for giving me stuff to think about--I won't dump the teacher. :) In any case, I probably shouldn't teach my DD to jump ship the minute things get a little tricky with a teacher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diokos Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The thing is, the songs are not slightly easier--they're the kind of song she would have done a year ago. I'm trying really hard to have faith in this process, but I guess I can see where my DD is coming from in being discouraged by that. She definitely doesn't spend the majority of her time on them, but it still does take a decent amount of time to slog through them and then maintain the quality until lesson day comes around. The kid has definitely figured out perseverance already, but I think even I would have trouble going along with these assignments. I understand your dd's frustrations, as well-it is tough! I well remember my first semester in college as a music major- playing songs I felt like I should have done in Jr High, while everyone else around me was playing impressive, elaborate pieces...it was nearly enough to drive me to change my major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think it depends on the teacher's reasons. The teacher might be holding your child back unjustifiably. For example, perhaps she is under the mistaken impression that you are pushing your daughter too hard. Or there might be a legitimate reason. For example, some pieces look simple but are actually incredibly difficult to play really convincingly (just listen to some kids performing Fur Elise, for example - it isn't that demanding technically, but it's so boring to hear when played mechanically). If your daughter feels strongly that she isn't being sufficiently challenged, why not have two different practice sessions - for example, she could spend 30-45 minutes every morning working hard on what the teacher assigned, then in the afternoon she could work on pieces she chooses (or her own compositions / improvisation if she wants). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm so not an expert and my kids are definitely not piano geniuses, but I felt we were moving too slow, and asked our teacher about it and she said that for several years, she had students moving much faster and kept discovering that they simply didn't grasp things she thought they had gotten, meaning that later there came a slowdown and some frustration with new material. Anyway, I think you've gotten good advice here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm a piano teacher and I agree with Hannah. If there's no problem with her mastery of skills and technique in what she's already learning then let her go for it. She's obviously got a love for it and the ability too. :iagree: Not a piano mom, but my two dc play strings. My dd had 3 yrs of lessons under her belt when she started her senior year. She asked Violin Teacher what she played for her college auditions. DD decided she would play the same piece. Only difference? Her teacher started lessons at age 6, not at age 14. Dd did it. Got into every school of music (and uni) she applied to/auditioned for. If her teacher had held her (or my ds) back, I'd have looked for another teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakpak Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 How did the chat go with the teacher? If you weren't satisfied with the discussion, I would definitely explore the idea of a new teacher. It's possible you could meet with another teacher and get their take on the situation as well. It doesn't sound like it's the right fit to me. The teacher should be able to constructively criticize your daughter's playing to her in a way that makes sense - your DD must be needing to clean up something if the teacher is reassigning the pieces for multiple weeks. The teacher should also be listening when you or your daughter tell her she doesn't have enough material to work on at home. Some teachers aren't used to/comfortable with thinking outside the box (as your DD said, the teacher's used her same methods for 30 years). You want a teacher who can communicate well and meet your daughter where she is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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