X-Post (sorry) but anyone post about China busted for cheating in gymnastics?

[Gretchen in NJ]

Can't say I"m surprised in the least. I"m still so disappointed that the IOC gave China the games in the first place. This is the first year ever that I"m boycotting the Olympics. I haven't watched five seconds of it. Sorry, but it just disgusts me-- the ridiculous scores, the fake fireworks, the "cute girl" lip synching the national anthem, the murder of that poor coach's parents, and now the prepubescent gymnasts.

 

So sad.

 

Astrid

:iagree: with you. I wish the IOC did not give them the games, but the games might be shining a light onto their human rights record.

[TXMomof4]

Egads! I think that I just lost all respect for the Chinese as a whole. I watched this and I am still weepy.

 

that just broke my heart. I can't imagine leaving my baby like that. I don't care how talented I may wish for her to be. That is devastating.

[Mom to Aly]

I read an article saying the Government controlled media had He's age listed as 13. Then, when there was a prob, the web page just disappeared, and now they are saying she is 16. And, when asked, they said, "How in the world could we forge her documents?" Yeah, right! I wonder?

 

I do think it is sad, though--these kids will have to lie forever... and have to right now, in front of everyone they know.

[Mom to Aly]

I just finished watching part 1, I don't think I can watch the rest.

Me too, I've seen enough. I don't understand how anyone can do this. The whole thing is too much for me!

[lovemyboys]

Smaller, lighter bodies have a big advantage on the uneven bars and vaults. The older girls are stronger and more muscular, but they aren't as light and flexible.

 

 

 

about hitting p*berty. They had to relearn things, especially the jumps, because their bodies had changed so much.

 

When I saw a couple people wondering how younger girls would have an advantage with these gymnastics, I remembered that interview. The girls said that their center of gravity had shifted so much that it was like starting over -- they had hips now, they were taller, more solid, etc.

 

I only watched 2 of the 5 videos because it was late and it hurt my heart. Thanks for letting us know, Elaine.

 

Those parents didn't really want to leave their kids, especially the first dad, you could tell he was just telling himself that. We've had friends from Romania, Czech Republic, etc. under the old regimes, life was so different there, we just can't even begin to relate.

[LG Gone Wild]

I haven't heard anything about China cheating in the gymnastics, but China is not alone in cheating, many athletes from many countries cheat, so I don't think we can cast China as the bad guy for it.

 

from individuals who take it upon themselves to cheat. China is following the traditions of communist/facist governments...East Germany and Soviet Union come to mind.

[Alice]

I watched the first part of the video posted. I'm just sick to my stomach and in tears. The little boy is exactly the same age as my son.

 

I feel for the girl gymnasts too. They are always going to have this scandal about them. Even if it's never proven or investigated...it's like the East German women swimmers. Everyone knew that were using steroids and they may have "won" the gold but it was tainted. It's just sad that they never really were given a chance to compete fairly and be able to win cleanly.

[Mrs Mungo]

I've really thought long and hard about this. I did not appreciate China getting the games. For that matter, I didn't appreciate it when the Clinton administration made China a trade partner. However, I have to admit that I am seeing the benefit. The more open a country is, the more light that shines into that closed country and society then the fewer places there will be for them to hide their deeds in the shadows.

[Geek]

I was going to not fret about it until hubby pointed out how we probably also had some good 14 - 15 yr-olds we'd have sent if we could, and maybe we'd have the all-around medal. Cheating is cheating.

Yep. Whether or not the age restriction is fair should have been debated -- and settled -- long before this point. Once settled, everyone should be expected to follow.

 

If the Chinese can break the age restriction, then so should everyone else.

[Robin Hood]

This is just a thought, but it seems that long ago there was talk about keeping girls in gymnastics younger by giving them some sort of hormone treatment. So could they be the right age, but recieving some sort of treatment to keep them from developing into older girls? Even their voices stay young sounding. I might have seen it on 20/20 program or something like that a long, long time ago and I don't remember all the details.

[Jami]

Here's an article with several documents listing the "original" age of at least one of the Chinese gymnasts.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumenbaum/scandal-of-the-ages-docum_b_118842.html

[Gretchen in NJ]

Here's an article with several documents listing the "original" age of at least one of the Chinese gymnasts.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumenbaum/scandal-of-the-ages-docum_b_118842.html

Were any of these three, Jiang Yuyuan, Yang Yilin or He Kexin use for the team portion? Not that they will investigate, but if proven there scores could be disqualified.

[Jami]

Were any of these three, Jiang Yuyuan, Yang Yilin or He Kexin use for the team portion? Not that they will investigate, but if proven there scores could be disqualified.

 

Well Yang Yilin won the bronze all-around last night. So I'm guessing that she competed in the team event. I think Jiang Yuyuan probably did too, since she was one of the top competitors last night as well. I'm not sure where'd you'd look to see who did what in the team event.

 

Not that it's *my* job to investigate (cough, IOC, cough).

 

This article mentions that the ages of Yuyuan and Yilin have been questioned

 

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/15/sports/15gymnastics.php

[Gretchen in NJ]

Well Yang Yilin won the bronze all-around last night. So I'm guessing that she competed in the team event. I think Jiang Yuyuan probably did too, since she was one of the top competitors last night as well. I'm not sure where'd you'd look to see who did what in the team event.

 

Not that it's *my* job to investigate (cough, IOC, cough).

It is so very shameful. And the scoring last night! OH MY WORD! Just awful!

[Kathy in MD]

Supposedly one of the sixteen year olds still has baby teeth.

 

Baby teeth aren't always a sign of age, my sister still had some (all?) in her 40's.

 

However some of them do look well under 16. But they looked like that when they showed up for the Olympics. I don't know if the officials started investigating their ages before the competition. If they didn't, they shouldn't start one after the medals were awarded. It's not like drugs or blood doping that could be used shortly before the competion.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Baby teeth aren't always a sign of age, my sister still had some (all?) in her 40's.

 

However some of them do look well under 16. But they looked like that when they showed up for the Olympics. I don't know if the officials started investigating their ages before the competition. If they didn't, they shouldn't start one after the medals were awarded. It's not like drugs or blood doping that could be used shortly before the competion.

In a way it is since young girls have an edge on the uneven parallel bars because of their size.

[Kathy in MD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy in MD

....However some of them do look well under 16. But they looked like that when they showed up for the Olympics. I don't know if the officials started investigating their ages before the competition. If they didn't, they shouldn't start one after the medals were awarded. It's not like drugs or blood doping that could be used shortly before the competion.

 

 

In a way it is since young girls have an edge on the uneven parallel bars because of their size.

 

I understand that younger gymnistist do have an edge. My comment was that it was obvious from the moment some of the gymnists showed up that there was a potential cheating problem. The investigation should have started at **that** moment, especially since the Chinese were expected to do extremely well. Ineligible or cheating athletes should be prevented from competing if at all possible. There are times that medals do need to be stripped after being awarded, but I think that this was not one of those cases.

 

Now if an investigation was started prior to the beginning of the competitions and couldn't be finished prior to the competition, I'll withdraw my comments.

[Deb in NZ]

but different races age at dofferent rates. & bone scans aren't a perfect test for age. My ds#1 (who is a gymnast) had a bone scan done at age 7 as he is very small for his age. The results placed him over 2 years younger than his birth age. Now (at age 14) he's still smaller & younger looking than most his age & people take him for being 2-3 years younger than he is. I wouldn't want bone scans to be used to prove age. Small kids are already dicriminated against enough in sport.

 

JMHO,

[Liz CA]

Yep. And Nastia Liukin got robbed on her vault!:glare: Chitters.

 

Yup, dh and ds screamed everytime the scores came up. DH said that a website was removed that showed one of the "16 year olds" several years back with her accurate age and when one did the math, she came up to be about 12 years in 2008.

But no, Communists don't cheat...

[Lolly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy in MD

....However some of them do look well under 16. But they looked like that when they showed up for the Olympics. I don't know if the officials started investigating their ages before the competition. If they didn't, they shouldn't start one after the medals were awarded. It's not like drugs or blood doping that could be used shortly before the competion.

 

 

 

 

I understand that younger gymnistist do have an edge. My comment was that it was obvious from the moment some of the gymnists showed up that there was a potential cheating problem. The investigation should have started at **that** moment, especially since the Chinese were expected to do extremely well. Ineligible or cheating athletes should be prevented from competing if at all possible. There are times that medals do need to be stripped after being awarded, but I think that this was not one of those cases.

 

Now if an investigation was started prior to the beginning of the competitions and couldn't be finished prior to the competition, I'll withdraw my comments.

 

It was brought up before the beginning of the competitions. The Chinese govt. provided passports "proving" the girls in question to be of age. I don't believe that there is going to be any investigation past that. The problem is that until this competition, these girls were registered with a different birth year. Now, they have official govt. proof of their older age.

 

 

As far as the scoring goes, this has been a problem as far back as I can remember. The judges from the communist countries tend to score the communist athletes more leniently. I assume that this is what has been going on this year. Not fair, but no different from any other Olympic games.

[keptwoman]

Isn't this all just speculation and gossip until the IOC proves something? Not very nice gossip at that. The general condemnation of the Chinese people going on here saddens me.

[Jami]

Isn't this all just speculation and gossip until the IOC proves something? Not very nice gossip at that. The general condemnation of the Chinese people going on here saddens me.

 

I would say that there is strong evidence based on past news articles and other gymnastic event registrations, so more than mere speculation.

 

For my part, I don't hold the individual gymnasts responsible for "cheating". And I don't think the scoring was necessarily biased for or against any one team last night, but it was uneven. Which is a problem with the subjective nature of judging artistic gymnastics. But if the Chinese coaches or officials have deliberately lied about the ages of their gymnasts, and I do think the evidence is there, then there needs to be repercussions. Though I feel for the gymnasts because they are talented, impressive young women (girls). It's the impression that any one country, host or not, should think themselves above the rules agreed upon within the sport.

[Lolly]

Isn't this all just speculation and gossip until the IOC proves something? Not very nice gossip at that. The general condemnation of the Chinese people going on here saddens me.

I don't believe it is toward the Chinese people. It is toward the Chinese govt., and in my case, toward the IOC. This is a charge that should have been pursued past simply accepting a government provided passports when there was black and white hard copy evidence to the contrary. A paper trail of using a previous birth year for a child until this competition should have been examined. It was not. This would not be the first time that proof of age has been falsified for gymnastics competitions.

[Kathy in MD]

It was brought up before the beginning of the competitions. The Chinese govt. provided Visas "proving" the girls in question to be of age. I don't believe that there is going to be any investigation past that. The problem is that until this competition, these girls were registered with a different birth year. Now, they have official govt. proof of their older age.

 

 

As far as the scoring goes, this has been a problem as far back as I can remember. The judges from the communist countries tend to score the communist athletes more leniently. I assume that this is what has been going on this year. Not fair, but no different from any other Olympic games.

 

I was aware that proof was offered, but if the IOC or competing countries were going to challange the passports/visas, that also should have started before the competitions.

 

And scoring problems were never limited to certain countries. Judges from any country have seemingly or actually favored their own athletes. I also think athletes with a good past record will get the benefit of a doubt from many judges if they are having a bad day.

[Lolly]

I was aware that proof was offered, but if the IOC or competing countries were going to challange the passports/visas, that also should have started before the competitions.

 

And scoring problems were never limited to certain countries. Judges from any country have seemingly or actually favored their own athletes. I also think athletes with a good past record will get the benefit of a doubt from many judges if they are having a bad day.

 

 

I was under the impression that the protesting never stopped. I don't believe any further investigation is or will go on. It doesn't make it right.

 

The scoring problems are a plague. The communist countries have a very drastic legacy of leaning towards all other communist athletes, it is not country specific. You don't see the same type of favoritism toward other countries. If you have just one judge from a country who favors their own, the system is built to somewhat absorb that. When you have multiple judges favoring, it becomes apparent. The athletes with a good record do tend to be favored overall by the judges. That happens at every single level of competition. I totally agree with you there.