Χά�ων Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The kids who have had years and years of practice shouldn't be in beginners, should they? Personally, I would consider a B a good grade for a less than top performance. That is what the girl is getting after her parents contacted the teacher. She got an 80 on the written work, which here is a B and a 70 or C on the performance. If people consider C a low grade then they need to adjust their expectations and perceptions. I think that grade inflation has really devalued the actual A level work. To the bolded. Yes and no. There is more to band than learning to play the instrument. The kids have to learn what the conductor is doing and how to play in a group setting. DS had been doing private lessons but still struggles in band class because playing with other kids and different instruments is a different experience. He would not do well in class that is beyond beginner level even with private lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm not naturally musical, and I can't imagine how anyone could learn to play an instrument in band without private instruction. Maybe someone who is naturally gifted and plays another instrument can pick up another instrument and be decent about it. But an average person? I don't think so. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the students in band do have private lessons. Really, is that considered standard in a public school beginning class? Outside of piano (not a band instrument obviously) or something very difficult like oboe, no one had private lessons in our instruction. We had a good instructor. I'm sure there were some private lesson students in orchestra but not in band. I played from 7th grade to 9th. Most of the same students played all years. We probably sounded beginning in our 7th grade concert, but that's what we were. Not everyone was naturally talented. We all put in a lot of practice in class and on our own time. So, yes, I think a non-naturally talented person can put in the hours and improve greatly. Perhaps we just had an above average instructor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I probably wouldn't let her quit but would meet with the teacher with my concerns and follow up regularly on her progress. I would not let her quit if the reason she hates the class is primarily related to her grade in the class—and it seems like that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 The counselor had no problem at all switching her classes. It actually worked out perfectly because she now has her favorite teacher again. She had her the first semester but was not scheduled for another class with her this time. I have to say she was happier at hearing she was out of band than she was Christmas morning. It's like a weight has been lifted, which tells me I did the right thing. I feel she was really stressing over that class and I honestly don't want her stressing so much over music and an instrument playing at 11 years old. She said she would like to do piano lessons outside of school. So, that's what we're going to do. I think this instructor leads a competitive class and that's how he likes things. My youngest is the least competitive person I know. That's not her thing at all. Oldest informed us last night it was more competitive than even we knew. Oldest is competitive though and thrives in that environment. She said they're able to challenge for seats which is not something I would expect in middle school. Oldest is second chair on the french horn and at any given time third chair, or below, can challenge her and try to take her spot. I would have hated that. Maybe that's the norm now, but dh was in band from middle school through high school and it wasn't near as competitive as he's hearing this middle school group is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 To the bolded. Yes and no. There is more to band than learning to play the instrument. The kids have to learn what the conductor is doing and how to play in a group setting. DS had been doing private lessons but still struggles in band class because playing with other kids and different instruments is a different experience. He would not do well in class that is beyond beginner level even with private lessons. My school had two different classes going at the same time in band (well, orchestra for me- cello was my instrument). There were the beginners and the intermediates and the grade standards were a bit different in each class but the classes took place at the same time, doing the same stuff in the same room. The beginners grades were less weighted to performance quality, but they were still graded on performance so they could get used to it. Everyone competed to be moved to chamber/advanced. You could test to be moved from beginners to intermediate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 She said they're able to challenge for seats which is not something I would expect in middle school. Oldest is second chair on the french horn and at any given time third chair, or below, can challenge her and try to take her spot. I would have hated that. Maybe that's the norm now, but dh was in band from middle school through high school and it wasn't near as competitive as he's hearing this middle school group is. FWIW, we started having challenges for chair positions in fifth grade band—sometime later in our first semester playing, if I recall correctly. I started out in last chair and ended up in first chair in the same day and maintained my spot afterward; I found it motivating rather than demoralizing, but YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 FWIW, we started having challenges for chair positions in fifth grade band—sometime later in our first semester playing, if I recall correctly. I started out in last chair and ended up in first chair in the same day and maintained my spot afterward; I found it motivating rather than demoralizing, but YMMV. Wow! That's so far from dh's experience. I know it can be good for some. My oldest thrives in his class and loves it. She'll continue on through high school. Youngest, though, is very different. That may change as she gets older, but right now that's just not a good place for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Schools have always been giving grades for results, not effort, that's the entire point of grades. That's not entirely true. Dd did band at the local school for 7-9 grades. Everyone got an "A". Apparently the school doesn't do pass/fail and that was his solution. My gym class back in the day was apparently graded on personality, not effort or results (if she liked you , you passed; if she didn't, you failed) Even "academic" classes often include a portion of the grade for "class participation" or "extra credit" (ie. effort). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 My school had two different classes going at the same time in band (well, orchestra for me- cello was my instrument). There were the beginners and the intermediates and the grade standards were a bit different in each class but the classes took place at the same time, doing the same stuff in the same room. The beginners grades were less weighted to performance quality, but they were still graded on performance so they could get used to it. Everyone competed to be moved to chamber/advanced. You could test to be moved from beginners to intermediate. Interesting. We started strings in 4th grade (or not at all) and band in 5th grade (or not at all). There wasn't the option to test up in band. I do not know about strings. I cannot imagine the school keeping the prodigy in beginner strings in 4th grade when she was so advanced but it never came up. I was sick and in the hospital in 5th grade when band started. I could not catch up and my parents were not the type to look into private lessons to help me catch up so I was not allowed to be in the school band. Band class was done by grade level 5th-8th grade and I have no clue about at the high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The kids who have had years and years of practice shouldn't be in beginners, should they? There is only one 7th grade band. Everyone who plays an instrument and is in 7th grade is in the same band, whether they are beginners or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 There is only one 7th grade band. Everyone who plays an instrument and is in 7th grade is in the same band, whether they are beginners or not. I can totally see why that would raise issues if the performance grading is relative to others and not personal improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The counselor had no problem at all switching her classes. It actually worked out perfectly because she now has her favorite teacher again. She had her the first semester but was not scheduled for another class with her this time. I have to say she was happier at hearing she was out of band than she was Christmas morning. It's like a weight has been lifted, which tells me I did the right thing. I feel she was really stressing over that class and I honestly don't want her stressing so much over music and an instrument playing at 11 years old. She said she would like to do piano lessons outside of school. So, that's what we're going to do. I think this instructor leads a competitive class and that's how he likes things. My youngest is the least competitive person I know. That's not her thing at all. Oldest informed us last night it was more competitive than even we knew. Oldest is competitive though and thrives in that environment. She said they're able to challenge for seats which is not something I would expect in middle school. Oldest is second chair on the french horn and at any given time third chair, or below, can challenge her and try to take her spot. I would have hated that. Maybe that's the norm now, but dh was in band from middle school through high school and it wasn't near as competitive as he's hearing this middle school group is. So very, very glad it worked out. She may have been more miserable this whole year than she was letting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'm glad it worked out. If she's never played piano before, her trombone experience with bass clef will come in handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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