Games Okay to Lose/Confidence Issues

[yucabird]

My 6yo is extremely insecure.  I know this might sound odd, but I'm looking for games where it is okay--and might even be preferable--to lose. 

[stripe]

I'd be interested to know, too. I have had better luck with cooperative type no-winner games, but with age, some of the anxiety about losing has lessened.

[PeterPan]

Yup, cooperative games are what you want.  Go to amazon's toy section and search for them.  The Richard Scarry games (Busytown, Busy Airport) are both cooperative and fun to play.  I haven't done 6 yo boy yet, but he might still enjoy them, at least Busy Airport.  Busytown might be a bit young.  But search amazon, because it's a whole genre, cooperative games.  When they're done well, they're actually really fun to play.  There are even cooperative adult games, because I was just reading about one, can't remember the title.  Maybe it was the Forbidden games like Forbidden Desert and Forbidden Island? I forget.

 

As far as the anxiety, you might come over to the LC/SN board and chat.  I'm sure some people there are dealing with that.  They might be able to give you some tips on parenting or books with more ideas.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Ravensburger Enchanted Forest - Family Game  Is this cooperative?  I got it and we played it in our speech therapy this summer.  She modified how we played (he was not quite 5 and a bit young for it), so I didn't realize it was cooperative.  It's a BEAUTIFUL game, very complex (for language, what's hidden where), probably would be fine and awesome for a 6 yo. They just had it 1/2 price on the deal of the day.  I picked up a copy for our SLP for Christmas, shh don't tell!  Definitely recommend.   :)

 

Forbidden Island  Too old for him, but remember for later.

 

Ravensburger Labyrinth  No way, Labyrinth is cooperative?  I got that on the amazon deal too, so I haven't played it yet.  It looked very fun.

 

Richard Scarry Busy Town  We LOVE Busytown.  Don't know if a 6 yo will use it a ton.  Maybe?  You spin, go the number of spaces, or spin a Goldbug (search) and search together the board for hidden objects.  Then when the timer ends EVERYONE moves forward the number of spaces of the objects found.  You're trying to get to the ferry together before the pigs eat all the picnic food.  It's really charming, has tension, but you either win together or the pigs get everything.  You don't really even lose, kwim?  

 

Castle Panic  Too old for him, but I was just looking at this for my teen and didn't realize it was cooperative.

 

Uh oh, turns out Busy Airport is not cooperative.  I didn't realize that, because we were using it at ST, where she modifies. I'm not sure they've ever gotten all the way to the end.  But you know, you're allowed to do that.  Change the rules.  Play only 15 minutes and then stop before there's a winner.  Make a new goal that is cooperative.  Play the game but play it when you know you only HAVE 15 minutes before you have to leave to go somewhere.  

 

I've been playing Sorry with my boy, and that definitely has a loser element.  He, um, can be sort of reactionary or upset when he loses, so I try really hard to diffuse that and head it off.  It's not the same thing as what you're talking about, but that's just another way to think through it, about whether there are ways to head it off.  (redefine winning, gloss over, congratulate and don't total the scores, go abruptly from the last move to cookies in the kitchen, etc.).

[TrixieB]

Family Pastimes makes cooperative games.  We still have Walk in the Woods even though my teens are now too old for it.  It was one of my elder dd's favorites.  My kids also enjoyed Secret Door and Max the Cat.

 

Forbidden Island and Forbidden Desert are aimed at older kids & adults, but your 6yo might be ready to play them.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Family Pastimes makes cooperative games.  We still have Walk in the Woods even though my teens are now too old for it.  It was one of my elder dd's favorites.  My kids also enjoyed Secret Door and Max the Cat.

 

Forbidden Island and Forbidden Desert are aimed at older kids & adults, but your 6yo might be ready to play them.

I was wondering if those Family Pastimes games were good!  Amazon lists a ton of them!  Yeah, the Forbidden games I was looking at for my teen.  I ordered one, because I think she's getting games for Christmas.  I still haven't decided.  Last year she got an ipad, and there's no topping that, lol.

[TrixieB]

Here is another game my kids loved.

 

Mystery Garden

 

It's not a cooperative game, but you can set the rules however you want.  You can allow your son to ask more questions, for example.  I see there is a newer edition, but IMO the illustrations on the original edition are more appealing.

[TrixieB]

I was wondering if those Family Pastimes games were good!  Amazon lists a ton of them!  Yeah, the Forbidden games I was looking at for my teen.  I ordered one, because I think she's getting games for Christmas.  I still haven't decided.  Last year she got an ipad, and there's no topping that, lol.

 

Yep, that's my problem.  I want to play Forbidden Desert; my just-turned-teen would rather hook up to her iPad. 

 

[PeterPan]

Capture the Gag  Not quite the same, but it might work.  You have two objects to hide, and it's certainly possible to play cooperatively.  Eventually both teams/parties find their gag (hidden critter) so I'm not sure how anybody ever loses.  They just have fun.  We wore ours out after several years, so last year I finally bought a new one.  

[PeterPan]

Yep, that's my problem.  I want to play Forbidden Desert; my just-turned-teen would rather hook up to her iPad. 

 

:lol:   Then you come over to my house, and we'll play Forbidden Desert together!  :)  Ooo, maybe I should host a Mom's game night, for all the moms who don't get to play the games they really want to!  That would be fun.  My kid just does NOT have the same taste as me.  I find myself wanting to play more tile-laying games, etc.  My only hope is ds.  I just got him Settlers of Catan Jr.  Can that be played cooperatively?  No clue.  If you just end at a certain time, it doesn't matter.  What is it with me and time ending?  Do I never finish anything?  :)

 

Oh, we don't have wifi, so when she's on her ipad the most she's doing is listening to music and writing, maybe playing something worthless like solitaire or mahajong.  Can't imagine if she had the internet at her fingertips and could use it anywhere, anytime...

[PeterPan]

Here is another game my kids loved.

 

Mystery Garden

 

It's not a cooperative game, but you can set the rules however you want.  You can allow your son to ask more questions, for example.  I see there is a newer edition, but IMO the illustrations on the original edition are more appealing.

Yes, we have that!!  I found it at the thrift store!  It's very fun and has terrific language.  We take our toys to speech therapy, so we're always looking for things that weave together rich language and social skills.  The Ravensburger games have all been terrific that we've tried.  We have Rivers, Roads, Railways, and we just play and take turn laying tiles.  I have no clue what the goal is, but we play it cooperatively and have fun.

 

You know another way to go is social skills play.  We've taken things like Thomas the Train or Hexbugs into ST, and she'll turn that into something with turn-taking.  They never just play willy nilly in ST.  There's always turn-taking, asking for pieces, you go next, blah blah. So it's another way to play cooperatively toward a common goal.  We LOVE doing hexbugs together that way.  Take turn laying the pieces, and make the challenge be seeing whether you can use ALL the track.  Sometimes we get in a pickle with weird curves and have to undo.  So there's that element of challenge without it being I win, you lose.  Then have fun and run the bugs.  

 

That's the way the ST taught us to play.  It's ok to think of play therapeutically and give them words to repeat, teach them how to handle it and how to respond.  Give him the words ahead of time, when you're NOT playing and when he's totally calm.  Talk with him about what some ways would be to congratulate the winner, think up grand phrases, then practice them so you'll be ready.  Then he's done while he's calm the ground work to be ready to respond better.  Hmm, I should do more of that!  He just got his L and R, so he's just now able to say things like Sorry Charlie...  The ST will weave little expressions like that into play where the emotion is lighter and give him the chance to use words like that and deal with failure feelings like that in light ways over and over, instead of it being a big WHOMP at the end of the game.

 

Well that Walk in the Woods looks awesome.  That's totally how we live, so that would be fun!  :)

[PeterPan]

Hey TrixieB, were there any games from that company you DIDN'T like?  Did you try Caves and Claws?  

[yucabird]

Thanks, ladies...keep 'em coming.  Elizabeth, I will try the other board soon; I would appreciate some parenting advice.      

[Kareni]

:lol:   Then you come over to my house, and we'll play Forbidden Desert together!   :)  Ooo, maybe I should host a Mom's game night, for all the moms who don't get to play the games they really want to! 

 

Can I come, too?

 

For the very young, I'd recommend Ravensburger's Snail's Pace Race -- this is a game where the players do not win or lose, only the snails do.  It's geared for ages three and up.

 

Here's an older thread with some more suggestions (for a variety of ages).  Cooperative games?

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

[TrixieB]

Hey TrixieB, were there any games from that company you DIDN'T like?  Did you try Caves and Claws?  

 

I didn't really like the Zen blocks.  But other than that, we enjoyed the several games we owned.  We never tried Caves and Claws.

 

[TrixieB]

:lol:   Then you come over to my house, and we'll play Forbidden Desert together!   :)  Ooo, maybe I should host a Mom's game night, for all the moms who don't get to play the games they really want to!  That would be fun.  My kid just does NOT have the same taste as me.  I find myself wanting to play more tile-laying games, etc.  My only hope is ds.  I just got him Settlers of Catan Jr.  Can that be played cooperatively?  No clue.  If you just end at a certain time, it doesn't matter.  What is it with me and time ending?  Do I never finish anything?   :)

 

Oh, we don't have wifi, so when she's on her ipad the most she's doing is listening to music and writing, maybe playing something worthless like solitaire or mahajong.  Can't imagine if she had the internet at her fingertips and could use it anywhere, anytime...

I think it will turn into a weekly Mom's game night.  Or maybe several times a week. :)

 

So often I am tempted to tell dd's iPad to forget the wifi password!  That would cut out the Youtube and Netflix.  But she also uses it to find pictures to draw, which is relatively educational (the practicing drawing skills part... and maybe the googling part...).

 

[fdrinca]

We love the games Lost Puppies and Hoot Owl Hoot. Both are by Peaceble Kingdom.

 

http://www.peaceablekingdom.com/

[athomeontheprairie]

Great list of games here... but I just want to add how great a game labyrinth is. HOWEVER, there is no way I would say it is a cooperative game. if you completely change the rules a 5 year old could play (we did here!) but it is certainly a win-lose game.

[JeanM]

Hey TrixieB, were there any games from that company you DIDN'T like?  Did you try Caves and Claws?  

 

I'm not TrixieB, but my family used to play lots of family pastimes games. We have Caves and Claws. It was fun and got played a good bit, but my boys preferred Sleeping Grump. They liked A Beautiful Place a lot too.

 

We still like cooperative games, but they've gotten older. My younger ds likes Pandemic now (my personal favorite), but my oldest ds doesn't like it. They play Castle Panic sometimes too.

[LaughingCat]

We have:

Max - cat tries to catch mouse/bird/chipmunk - you try to get them home before cat can catch them

Secret Door - this is basically a memory game that you all help each other with

Orchard - pick all the fruit before crow gets to the orchard

Richard Scarry's Busy Town - my DD^{the older}still likes to play this with DD^{the younger}and I can be convinced to play too (which is not true of all games lol)

Forbidden Island - as mentioned above might be too old for a 6 year old?

Snails Pace Race - I personally think this is more for toddlers- my 4 year old is done with it

 

What about something like Rory's Story Cubes?

 

I don't think Labyrinth or Enchanted Forest are co-operative as played by the rules (i've never played them that way anyway) but you could probably make them co-operative?

[shinyhappypeople]

When the girls were younger we turned win-lose games into semi-cooperative games.  So, the first one to the finish line  was given a silly pretend work assignment (set up the picnic, capture the extra ladybugs - just depended on the theme of the game), while the other players finished.  Everyone ALWAYS had the chance to finish.  The game didn't end when the winner crossed the finish line.  I think that helped.  Oh, and the girls also enjoyed when I got silly and *very dramatically* bemoaned my awful fate when I got a bad roll or one of them passed me.  (*insert "weeping"*  I'm going to loooooooose!!!  Oh, the humanity!!!)  My point was for them to learn to not take things so seriously.  Games are supposed to be fun :)

 

[shinyhappypeople]

Round-Up is a really fun cooperative game.  Younger DD and I have played it approximately 3 million times. ;)  It was very popular at our house for quite a while.

[Lori D.]

Love ShinyHappyPeople's "drama" to diffuse the potential of losing, and OhElizabeth's advance strategies, like coming up with grand expressions for congratulating or expressing frustration to help diffuse a big blow-up.

 

Similar to ShinyHappyPeople, we always play till *everyone* finishes the game. A friend says their family does that too, and because the youngest child in that family struggled with losing, when they would play Sorry or other board games, they called it: "first winner, second winner, third winner, fourth winner", as each child finished to cheers and applause. :) Also agreeing with previous posters about changing the rules to suit your family -- as long as you all agree, and it makes game-playing more enjoyable for your family, why not! (The only downside is that when you play with others outside of the family, they may not be willing to play by adapted rules.) Even now as all adults, we just prefer playing Ticket to Ride by having everyone complete all of their train routes, as that is the appeal of the game to us.

 

Agreeing with previous posters: Secret Door is a fun cooperative game; that company has several others that look quite fun, too.  We also have Forbidden Island, which is cooperative, but that one seems much more stressful because of the island sinking and the strong possibility of losing because something you need may sink and be lost before you can get to it... ;)

 

A game where you win by losing is Go For Broke; the focus is to be the first to lose 1 million dollars -- harder to do than you might think, as everything keeps winning you money :D.

 

Mousetrap focuses a lot on process rather than winning/losing. I consider Careers another more "process-focused" game because you're always so busy with doing so many things on your turn that you're not focused on winning/losing; also, that's an easy one to keep playing until everyone has completed their goal and "wins". Razzle Dazzle was a card game we played growing that had lots to do and was much more focused on process rather than winning/losing. (I'll see if I can find the rules for you and post them later.)

 

A game that our DC beat us at most of the time is Set. A similar-themed game is the old Parker Brothers Scan. Children seem to do a lot better at more quickly finding patterns, sets, and connections! :)

 

 

BEST of luck in helping your DS get over the hump of the upset of losing games! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

[vonfirmath]

 

Can I come, too?

 

For the very young, I'd recommend Ravensburger's Snail's Pace Race -- this is a game where the players do not win or lose, only the snails do.  It's geared for ages three and up.

 

Here's an older thread with some more suggestions (for a variety of ages).  Cooperative games?

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

 

We've played Snail's Pace Race with a 2 year old who knew their colors. It took a LONG time before he understood how to choose the winner. But he loved choosing his favorite color for the winner, and would usually choose a loser based on who looked to be behind at the moment (or who won the last race)

[yucabird]

Thanks, everyone.  My younger is an intelligent, creative kid, but in activities where she is at a handicap due to age, ability, etc., she either won't or will only half-heartedly play/work.  (It goes beyond expectations for her age.  She either totally shuts down or she won't take chances in areas she senses she won't excel.)  Obviously, my concern is for other areas than gaming--at six she should be enjoying the moment, not feeling she has any disadvantage in an activity--but games seem an easy way to engage her.

 

One of the Forbidden games was already on its way for Christmas (She may be too young, but we will see.), and I have put six others on rush to our holiday guest (to bring).  Set and Blink are games we play regularly; she appears to enjoy the challenges and is pretty good at both.

 

I'll definitely employ the "drama" idea.

 

I appreciate this thread and will, when things calm down next week, ask some questions on the LC board.

[PeterPan]

We played Catan Jr. today, and ds LOVES it.  It would be a good one to apply Lori's technique of letting everyone finish.  

 

Hope your games work out well for you!  :)

[chelsmm]

My kids love Wildcraft. They crack up over the ailments and love helping each other catch up. I have a six year old boy who cried today when he lost at Spanish bingo. So I tend to choose my games carefully at this point. We didn't love Enchanted Forest. Maybe we were playing it wrong. We didn't play as a cooperative game. I'll have to take another look at it. It is such a pretty game. But they both disliked it.

 

Busy town is fun for them both. But hands down, Wildcraft is the favorite.

[Nan in Mass]

I think maybe mine learned to lose gracefully by playing a short game many times in a row. I'd take a moment when we were waiting in line or something and we'd play rock paper scissors shoot. Nothing happens when you lose. You just play again. We played as many times as we could in quick succession. We tried not to tie losing to stopping-playing. We tended to stop when an adult had lost.

 

Nan

[shinyhappypeople]

So... is anyone else reading this thread now fighting the urge to buy more board games??  Labyrinth looks so cool!  But, if you saw our packed game closet you'd realize how ridiculous buying yet another board game is.  But.. but... but...  it's so cool!

 

 

[Kareni]

So... is anyone else reading this thread now fighting the urge to buy more board games??  Labyrinth looks so cool!  But, if you saw our packed game closet you'd realize how ridiculous buying yet another board game is.  But.. but... but...  it's so cool!

 

Me!  Me!  And our game cupboard is also packed ....

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

[albeto.]

My kids are older now (teens), and so I'm completely out of the loop, but one thing I did we all had fun with. Maybe it will help. We played games that required no skill and was completely luck-based, like Chutes and Ladders and Candlyland. The object of the game wasn't to get to the end first, the object of the game was to encourage other players. This meant those who were way behind got lots of encouragement, those in front received positive comments as well. There could be as many "winners" as I declared (and I declared a lot), and each "winner" got a warm chocolate chip cookie fresh from the oven.

[Lori D.]

So... is anyone else reading this thread now fighting the urge to buy more board games??  Labyrinth looks so cool!  But, if you saw our packed game closet you'd realize how ridiculous buying yet another board game is.  But.. but... but...  it's so cool!

 

 

Well, really, you NEED Labrynth! Surely you can stuff a few of the older/lesser-played games behind the tottering stacks of books overflowing the bookcases to make room for all these cool NEW games!  :lol:

 

 

 

 

And yes, all of these recent threads on board games forced my hand to click on the "purchase" button for the FOUR new games that somehow ended up in my Amazon shopping cart that will have to magically fit in our already-overloaded game cupboard... ;)

[Lori D.]

Okay, I couldn't find an official set of rules on a website, but here are rules for the card game "Razzle Dazzle" that we LOVED as kids -- so much to do that you really didn't notice about who was winning/won or losing/lost. :) Enjoy!

 

 

RAZZLE DAZZLE

Make sure everyone gets to be the dealer the same number of times, as that is the funnest part ;). (It takes about 5 minutes per dealer, to help determine how many times around you want to go.)

 

Count out about 25 counters, poker chips, Lego bricks, M&M candies -- or other item of choice -- to each individual player. As dealer, you oversee 5 rounds of play, and then pass the deck to be shuffled and the next person is dealer. 

 

Dealer starts by saying "ante up!" Everyone, including the dealer, puts 4 chips into the ante. Dealer now oversees 5 rounds of play:

 

1. Red or Black

One at a time, dealer asks each player "red or black?". The player choses one, and dealer turns over the top 2 cards to give to the player. If both cards are the color chosen by the player, the player WINS a chip from the ante. If the cards are the opposite color, the player PAYS a chip to the ante. If there is one card of each color, it is a "PUSH" (nothing happens). Dealer repeats around the circle to each player, and ends with self (also choosing and winning or paying or pushing), so each person now has 2 cards, face up, in front of them.

 

2. Odd or Even

One at a time, dealer asks each player "odd or even?" The player choses one, and the dealer turns over the top 3 cards to give to the player and adds up the face value (aces = 1, face cards = 10) to see if the total value is an odd or even number. If player guessed correctly, the player WINS a chip from the ante. If the player guessed the opposite, the player PAYS a chip to the ante. Dealer repeats around the circle to each player, and ends with self, so each person now has a total of 5 cards face up in front of them.

 

3. Royal Count

One at a time, dealer asks each player "royal count?" The player looks at the 5 cards in front of them and counts up the number of "royal" cards (Aces, Kings, Queens, and Jacks), and wins or loses according to the number of their "royal" cards:

 

0 royals = "pay 2" (player pays 2 chips to the ante)

1 royal =  "pay 1" (player pays 1 chip to the ante)

2 royals = "push"  (nothing happens)

3 royals =  "win 1" (player wins 1 chip from the ante)

4 or 5 royals = "win 2" (player wins 2 chips from the ante)

 

Dealer responds to the player's answer to number of royals with answers in quotes from above chart. Dealer repeats around the circle with each player, and ends with self, either winning, paying or pushing.

 

4. Society Poker

Everyone puts up a bet of 1, 2, or 3 chips. Dealer turns up 3 cards in the center; everyone gets to count as few or as many of those 3 cards, along with the 5 cards in front of them, to build the best 5-card poker hand possible. High hand wins all the chips bet by each player. (Option: worst hand gets to recover their bet from the ante; NOTE: worst hand is determined by the 5 cards in front of each player; a player can NOT use the 3 extra cards turned up by the dealer to make their hand WORSE.) Poker hands:

 

1. Straight Flush (5 cards in numerical order all of the same suit)

2. Four of a Kind (4 card set of the same kind; example: 4 nines)

3. Full House (3 card set of one kind, 2 card set of a different kind; example: 3 fives and 2 eights)

4. Flush (5 cards all of the same suit, any number values)

5. Straight (5 cards in numerical order, any suits)

6. Three of a Kind (3 card set of same kind)

7. Two Pair (2 card set of one kind, a second 2 card set of another kind; example: 2 kings and 2 tens)

8. One Pair (2 card set of one kind; example: 2 jacks)

9. High Card (no straights or sets; highest number value in descending order; aces are the highest)

 

5. Place Your Bets

Dealer announces to all, "place your bets!" Each player may bet up to 5 chips; each player turns in all of their cards and puts their bet in front of them. Only the Dealer does NOT bet. With remaining deck, Dealer turns up the next 13 cards one at a time and counts one number for each card turned over: "ace, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, jack, queen, king". If the Dealer turns over a card that matches the number being said, all players EXCEPT the Dealer win. The Dealer uses the ante to match the bet of each winning player. If there are not enough chips in the ante, then the Dealer must finish matching the bets from his/her own pile of chips. If NO card matches the number said as the cards are turned up, the Dealer wins the ante.

 

The cards are shuffled and passed so the next player can be dealer. The new dealer calls "ante up", and each player puts 4 chips into the new ante, and 5 more rounds are played.

[yucabird]

Lori, Razzle Dazzle sounds like terrific fun.  Albeto, I really like the idea of adding encouragement rules.  My talkative 7 yo will love having a reason to yatter, and my 6 yo will love the cookies! 

 

Thanks, everyone!