Arne Duncan: ‘White suburban moms’ upset that Common Core shows their kids aren’t ‘brilliant’

[SKL]

   

 

Around here the school gives the subject accelerating or grade skipping ele. child a SAT10 for the grade he's moving to. 95% or better on both math reasoning and computation is needed to approve the skip. Many parents become bitter when they see Johnny can't score at that level - but there is nothing new for him in the classroom.

 

Is the SAT10 a placement test (beginning of year) or achievement test (end of year)?  Sorry, I am Suburban - er - ignorant.

[LizzyBee]

I just skimmed the article, but . . . . :shrug:

 

As a white suburban mom with two kids in white suburban schools, and as someone who talks to other white suburban moms and as someone who has two family members who are teachers in white suburban high schools, I can very truthfully say that the only place that common core seems to be a big deal at all is on this board.  In real life I just don't encounter many people who talk about it at all, let alone who are upset about it or testing results.

 

I have real life friends who are talking about it.  They are upset because they are science, engineering, and math majors and suddenly their elementary kids' math doesn't make any sense, and we're talking about kids as young as 2nd grade.  I didn't pay much attention to the CC criticisms until I started hearing from these parents whose kids are in public school.

[Arcadia]

Is the SAT10 a placement test (beginning of year) or achievement test (end of year)?

There is Fall norms and Spring norms. What I was told when I ask was that the Spring norms are end of year. My "old" 2nd grader scored more than 95% for the 3rd grade end of year SAT10 test overall (higher in LA and Math subtests) but still need to jump through more hoops. Grade skip is up to the discretion of the school. My kid guess his way through Social Studies subtest though :lol:

 

Pearson's information page on SAT10

http://www.pearsonassessments.com/learningassessments/products/100000415/stanford-achievement-test-series-tenth-edition.html

[SKL]

I have real life friends who are talking about it.  They are upset because they are science, engineering, and math majors and suddenly their elementary kids' math doesn't make any sense, and we're talking about kids as young as 2nd grade.  I didn't pay much attention to the CC criticisms until I started hearing from these parents whose kids are in public school.

 

Yeah, my first thoughts were neutral too.  But I'm a pretty smart person, I had a pretty rigorous education, and we never had to do some of this stuff in 2nd grade.  And good teachers with bright students are not being successful at teaching the stuff.  I just think they are off base and it's going to be a mess.  How much time, money, and emotional energy are going to be wasted before they find out those white suburban moms might have had a point?  If people could have a civil discussion, maybe there would be some hope of getting the "big idea" on the right track.

 

[SKL]

   

 

scored against end of year norms no matter when given...so first grader going to skip second at beginning of year would take second grade test..(i worded that unclearly before).

 

It's not a big deal for fall birthday old-for-grade students to move up a grade here. They usually skip 1, 2, or 8.

 

I think one of the problems with nclb here is that it did away with acheivement tests that showed parents where their child ranked nationally.

 

So are you saying that a kid who wanted to skip from 1st to 2nd in the fall would have to already know 95% of everything the 2nd graders are going to learn this year?

 

I am not surprised they make it hard.  I ranted quite a bit about the resistance I got to putting Miss E in KG early, though she already knew everything they taught in KG and quite a bit beyond.  Of course once she was in KG, she became the golden child.  Whatever!

[T'smom]

So are you saying that a kid who wanted to skip from 1st to 2nd in the fall would have to already know 95% of everything the 2nd graders are going to learn this year?

 

I am not surprised they make it hard. I ranted quite a bit about the resistance I got to putting Miss E in KG early, though she already knew everything they taught in KG and quite a bit beyond. Of course once she was in KG, she became the golden child. Whatever!

I believe she meant a 1st grader who wanted to skip 2nd and go straight to 3rd would have to know 95% of 2nd grade materials.

[SKL]

I believe she meant a 1st grader who wanted to skip 2nd and go straight to 3rd would have to know 95% of 2nd grade materials.

 

That sounds reasonable.

[GSOchristie]

   

 

Around here the school gives the subject accelerating or grade skipping ele. child a SAT10 for the grade he's moving to. 95% or better on both math reasoning and computation is needed to approve the skip. Many parents become bitter when they see Johnny can't score at that level - but there is nothing new for him in the classroom.

 

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear, he's actually staying in the first grade and just going to second grade for math and reading.  What I do know is that he has no idea how to multiply or divide, even what the division symbol means, or how to add decimals.  We do math on the driveway in sidewalk chalk and he asks Asher about it whatever he we're doing.  That's why it was surprising that he had tested high enough to move to another grade.  And my only experience with second grade math is Singapore, which I assume is not any more advanced that other curriculum.  The other kid is fine, he's reading perfectly great for a first grader, I just don't think he's reading on a third grade level like his mom was told.  

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Sorry -- double post.

[Murphy101]

Our school districts are quite literally freaking out. Their funding depends on these scores. Bad scores equal less funding equal really passed off superintendents and teacher unions and well folks in general. There's been several half page or more editiorials in the paper, even from the mayor, and at least five of the biggest and considered better school districts have out out publications, blogs, and editorials lambasting the mayor and governor over this mess.

 

Common core and the A-F school eval system (which is the grade the school gets, not referencing the students) has been a HUGE point of discussion in my state.

[Murphy101]

All that aside, I ticks me off that he thinks only white suburban moms complaining about this stuff. Even if it were true, which I don't think it is, it might only seem that way bc they are the only parents who have the time and money to get their voice out.

[GSOchristie]

Is there a way to see these tests everyone is going to be taking at the end of this year if your state adopted the common core, like a practice or sample version?  I'm assuming everyone will be taking the same tests?  

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

It was a political maneuver to drum up support for Common Core by playing into class and racial resentment.

 

And then there's the theory that CC is a deeply disguised program to de-fund failing schools, ax expensive experienced teachers, hire cheaper new grads, and pour $$ into vouchers with a grand "See?  We tried to fix public schools, but..."

 

That's the prevailing thinking at DW's school.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

huh...whoa

 

It's a bit grassy-knoll-ish, but there's sort of a familiar ah-ha ring there, too.  Implementation is gonna be...interesting.  In NJ, they're going to NINE standardized tests a year, all computer based.

 

So let's see, in a big, regional high school of, say 2500 kids, you might have a computer lab with, what, 40 PCs, give or take?  To cycle all 2500 kids through over 10 months means a whole lotta kids will be testing every day of the year, unless schools buy a ton of new computers, with money....they have.....yeah, no. :banghead:

 

Like I said, has Arne worked in a classroom? 

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

All that aside, I ticks me off that he thinks only white suburban moms complaining about this stuff. Even if it were true, which I don't think it is, it might only seem that way bc they are the only parents who have the time and money to get their voice out.

 

Because wages have not kept pace with COL and parents have to work multiple jobs...

 

But I'm not getting political.

[bolt.]

So let's see, in a big, regional high school of, say 2500 kids, you might have a computer lab with, what, 40 PCs, give or take? To cycle all 2500 kids through over 10 months means a whole lotta kids will be testing every day of the year, unless schools buy a ton of new computers, with money....they have.....yeah, no. :banghead

Sorry to disrupt a little, but is that really an average student-to-computer ratio these days where you are? Is it because students don't need desktop PCs due to having laptops or home computers of their own? Or is it representative of actually how much computer access students have?

[Renee in NC]

 

It's a bit grassy-knoll-ish, but there's sort of a familiar ah-ha ring there, too.  Implementation is gonna be...interesting.  In NJ, they're going to NINE standardized tests a year, all computer based.

 

So let's see, in a big, regional high school of, say 2500 kids, you might have a computer lab with, what, 40 PCs, give or take?  To cycle all 2500 kids through over 10 months means a whole lotta kids will be testing every day of the year, unless schools buy a ton of new computers, with money....they have.....yeah, no. :banghead:

 

Like I said, has Arne worked in a classroom? 

In our school district, each student has their own school-issued Mac Book.

 

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

THey have laptops. Usually they bring them over to the gym and test the students during their P.E. period.

 

 

Sorry to disrupt a little, but is that really an average student-to-computer ratio these days where you are? Is it because students don't need desktop PCs due to having laptops or home computers of their own? Or is it representative of actually how much computer access students have?

 

 

In our school district, each student has their own school-issued Mac Book.

 

 

 

Yes, that is the picture in much of NJ.  We're a fairly small state, with over 600 school districts funded almost entirely by property taxes, which is why you'll pay $30,000 yearly just in taxes if you live in the same county as Newark.  I do not know of any schools in this part of the state that issue MacBooks to every student (except private schools).

[Crimson Wife]

Is there a way to see these tests everyone is going to be taking at the end of this year if your state adopted the common core, like a practice or sample version?  I'm assuming everyone will be taking the same tests?

You can see some sample questions here: http://www.smarterbalanced.org/pilot-test/

 

However, the actual test is still under development and the kids taking it this year will be "guinea pigs". Which is why I'm planning to exercise my right to opt them out if their virtual charter decides to participate (as of the end of October they hadn't made a decision yet). I'm not anti-standardized testing but I see no point in having them beta test this new assessment.

[Renee in NC]

 

Yes, that is the picture in much of NJ.  We're a fairly small state, with over 600 school districts funded almost entirely by property taxes, which is why you'll pay $30,000 yearly just in taxes if you live in the same county as Newark.  I do not know of any schools in this part of the state that issue MacBooks to every student (except private schools).

Our property taxes are much, much lower than that, thankfully. This is not state-wide, just our county's policy. I am glad that they provide them.

[GSOchristie]

You can see some sample questions here: http://www.smarterbalanced.org/pilot-test/

 

However, the actual test is still under development and the kids taking it this year will be "guinea pigs". Which is why I'm planning to exercise my right to opt them out if their virtual charter decides to participate (as of the end of October they hadn't made a decision yet). I'm not anti-standardized testing but I see no point in having them beta test this new assessment.

 

 

You might find what you are looking for here:

 

http://edinformatics.com/testing/testing.htm

 

Thanks!  

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

 

Our property taxes are much, much lower than that, thankfully. This is not state-wide, just our county's policy. I am glad that they provide them.

In NJ, this insanity is called "home rule." It's been in place forever, and has been a stumbling block to implementing major change.

[Murphy101]

I keep coming back to the apparent unavoidable issue that Laura Ingalls learned more with a piece of chalk and a blackboard and maybe 10 books total for schooling than we seem capable of teaching even the basic three Rs with multimillions of dollars and state of the art technology.

 

The problem isn't money or lack of technology.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I keep coming back to the apparent unavoidable issue that Laura Ingalls learned more with a piece of chalk and a blackboard and maybe 10 books total for schooling than we seem capable of teaching even the basic three Rs with multimillions of dollars and state of the art technology.

 

The problem isn't money or lack of technology.

Yup. Smartboards were all the rage. One or two teachers in DW's school use them as intended, but the geewhiz factor is long gone. There's another movement afoot to let students answer by pushbutton, or even smartphones, to allow even shy kids the opportunity to answer in class without fear of peer ridicule.

 

Not for nothing, but I use 1970's editions of Warriner's to HS grammar.

[ErinE]

It's a bit grassy-knoll-ish, but there's sort of a familiar ah-ha ring there, too. Implementation is gonna be...interesting. In NJ, they're going to NINE standardized tests a year, all computer based.

 

So let's see, in a big, regional high school of, say 2500 kids, you might have a computer lab with, what, 40 PCs, give or take? To cycle all 2500 kids through over 10 months means a whole lotta kids will be testing every day of the year, unless schools buy a ton of new computers, with money....they have.....yeah, no.

This makes me sad. I volunteered in DS's school for the 2.5 years he was educated in a PS. In the buildup to the annual testing, the pressure felt by the students and teachers was intense. Immediately after the end of winter break, third graders and higher spent months on testing strategies and worksheets. During testing, the school was in complete lockdown.

 

I can't imagine nine rounds of standardized testing a year. When will there be time to teach?

[PhotoGal]

You can see some sample questions here: http://www.smarterbalanced.org/pilot-test/

 

 

Woah. I find those questions and reading samples to be pretty convoluted and not well written (at least the 4th grade problems I was looking at). I think ELL students especially are going to have a tough time if the actual questions are phrased like these. Even the math is often not clear. Yikes!

[kitten18]

ok help...

 

why am I seeing this everywhere:

 

&nbsp

Me too!!!

[Renee in NC]

 

I keep coming back to the apparent unavoidable issue that Laura Ingalls learned more with a piece of chalk and a blackboard and maybe 10 books total for schooling than we seem capable of teaching even the basic three Rs with multimillions of dollars and state of the art technology.

 

The problem isn't money or lack of technology.

Is that really true, though? I won't argue that 100 years ago students weren't taught grammar, spelling, reading, history, and math computation more systematically. However, there is way more to current education than the basic level of those subjects. What was taught in the past was pretty much limited to what TWTM covers in roughly 6 years. What about the other 6? We expect more out of students and teachers now than ever imagined then.

 

Our education system stinks - I will agree with that. I look at other countries and wonder where we have gone wrong. However, comparing today's schools to schools 125 years ago will not get us where we need to be.

[GSOchristie]

This makes me sad. I volunteered in DS's school for the 2.5 years he was educated in a PS. In the buildup to the annual testing, the pressure felt by the students and teachers was intense. Immediately after the end of winter break, third graders and higher spent months on testing strategies and worksheets. During testing, the school was in complete lockdown.

 

I can't imagine nine rounds of standardized testing a year. When will there be time to teach?

 

A homeschooling friend was lamenting how little schooling they'd accomplished during the month of March last year due to an injury and subsequent surgery.  I was reminded that when I taught, one whole month leading up to SOL's was test prep.  Either we were cramming info that we hadn't had time to cover (because we had 2 months left in the school year) or we were working on test taking strategies.  We dissected those practice tests to make sure they knew if they asked it this way, it meant this and if they said it that way, it meant that.  These kids were in a school where 92% were on free/reduced lunch, quite a few just didn't have the vocab to be able to read and comprehend the weird way some of the questions were asked.  It wasn't even that they couldn't do it, they couldn't read the problem.  One year my principal stripped recess from the entire third and fourth grades because our third quarter benchmarks were so bad.  He made us use that time specifically for SOL prep in hopes that we could improve their scores.  You can imagine how well that worked with 8, 9, and 10 year olds.  We acted like their lives depended on this test because it was tied to federal funding.

[Supertechmom]

Everyone with kids in school around here is upset and yes it is the white suburban mom screaming the loudest. For years, I have been treated like a two headed purple people eater because "why would I homeschool when the schools are so wonderful?" No one and I mean no one in my mainstream typical American group of acquaintances thought homeschooling was necessary. I have been depriving my kids of excellent learning opportunities, wonderful teachers, wonderful education. No matter how many times I explained test scores, no matter how much I showed true grade level curriculum, I was always met with that round eye blink of the eye and " well that may be other schools, but our school is wonderful and my children are doing wonderful!! We have not one single national test until the SAT and those scores are dismal! But parents still say how wonderful! Because they can get their kids into our public universities. We have valedictorians who worry and sweat they may not have the scores get into our state colleges.( and their scores are low for entrance) Remedial class rates are through the roof but everyone thinks their kids are doing wonderful! Now common core is being brought here. People are holding protest meetings on the state capital steps. Meetings are announced on the news regularly to discuss CC. And the main reason is because we are so damn far behind those standards and everyone feels the punch in the gut. Suddenly, that wonderful school, great education is truly being measured and we do not measure even close. White suburban moms are fighting hard against it. Their smart brilliant on the path to high achieving are suddenly below average. Thus CC must be wrong because their child has done well for years!! Sunday school chatter has become most entertaining listening to the fight against CC. I am for it in my state just so it would force the schools to teach some kind of minimum and not what makes every parent in every school think their kid is brilliant and high achieving. My favorite saying around during these talks is being the best of crap, still makes you crap. But after years of being on the white ivory tower, they are having a hard time seeing the pile of crap they have been sitting on. CC has been a bad wake up call.