Financial Advice?

[ficbot]

Cut the meat, that's $80 a month right there, which is halfway toward your $200 shortfall. If he complains, tell him that this is all the money there is and when he brings home more money, he can have the meat back again.

 

Seriously, you are not dealing with a million dollar shortfall here. $300 more will let you meet your minimums and also pay a little extra to whittle down the debt. We are talking about less than $4000 a year. So tell him to work overtime until he has $4000 and then he can stop. Or tell him to start selling things until he has $4000 and then stop. Otherwise, you go on austerity measures and there is no meat and fewer  groceries, and if he is bored with it, tough cookies :)

 

I am very grateful that my guy and I have never fought about money. We have a lifestyle that fits within our budget and we use the jars. It's very clear where the money goes and what it gets spent on. We do have other things we deal with (D is a classic introvert and struggles to come to my occasional family functions; he is divorced and his ex, with whom he shares a child, is a bit of a handful). But money, we have never fought about. Part of that is his work ethic---because he has a disability, he has always been overly sensitive about being able to look after himself, and he works twice as hard as most people. He has been asked to go to events the hospital runs for people with his condition to share his story and he is always the only person there who works full-time.

[Lisa R.]

Cut the meat, that's $80 a month right there, which is halfway toward your $200 shortfall. If he complains, tell him that this is all the money there is and when he brings home more money, he can have the meat back again.

 

 

 

Hard to argue with this idea...

[Wildcat]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I am going to do what I can. *sigh* This is just a statement of fact but dh will not take a second job. He won't do anything but his job until we move out of the south, so he says. It is just what he says. *shrug* He's rather declare bankruptcy than "work himself into the ground". I just had to throw that out there because a lot of you were asking about dh. :)

 

This is your problem. I'm not a huge DR fan, but I know he has helped a LOT of people understand money. What I do agree with is something I hear him say to people in your place "you don't have just a financial issue, you have a marriage issue and until you fix the marriage issue, the financial issue won't go away".

 

Your dh needs to act like an adult and get another job.

 

UGH!  MY teenager and my college student work more than 30 hours per week (though the high schooler has cut back to 24 hours now that school has begun).

 

I'll admit I could not live with that attitude - it would be major friction here if I lived with a freeloader.  And I wish bankruptcy and food stamps weren't an option for those who refuse to work at least normal hours...

 

I have NO problem with food stamps, etc, for those who truly need them, but not for those who refuse " to work themselves into the ground" when their definition of that is 30 hours per week.

 

Just my two cents.  I feel for you and your kids!  Can you let him go hungry telling him you paid bills but without more income there isn't enough for food for him?  Maybe that would move his lazy _____.

 

I'm with you. I also worked full time and went to school full time. There are many ladies on this board who have done even more than that. Being an adult means doing what you have to do.

 

And I agree with the food stamp thing. Refusing to work is *not* a valid reason for assistance, IMO.  It makes me angry.

 

 

If your husband will not work more hours I think your only realistic option is to declare bankruptcy. You will work yourself too much homeschooling your children, working too much, and stressing over the burden of being the only adult doing ALL they can do to get out of this mess. If he won't man up and work more to provide for his family he either needs to do the schooling so you can work more to make money or you both need to declare bankruptcy.  But with someone not willing to work you will likely just end up where you are now a few years down the line.

 

I disagree. Bankrupcy in this case is an 'easy fix' for a lazy person. Bankruptcy is an 'out' for those with no other solution. In the OP's case, MORE WORK is the solution.

 

Dh and I work HARD to pay our bills. Dh works an AVERAGE of 70 hours a week and almost never takes time off. That doesn't include the HOURS each day he works from home for no extra pay. I am able to not work outside the home, as I can manage our household budget nicely. However, once both kids are out of school, I WILL be going back to work full time. FULL TIME. I don't want to, but it's the grown up thing to do.

 

OP, I am sorry to sound so harsh, but your problems stem from lack of work/income. Your dh needs to get a second job (delivering pizzas, mowing lawns, whatever), and you need to increase your hours, too. The kids don't want to go to public school, but they may just have to go for a year or two so you can also work full time and pay bills/save money. We don't get what we 'want' in life without doing the 'have tos'. The only way I would stay home to homeschool my kids and take gov assistance is if their very lives were in danger every day at school. I know you said you had 'set aside' an hour for yourself, but until your financial house is in order, there is no allowing for 'you time'.  I feel so bad for you, and I'm sure you all feel like you have been kicked in the teeth, but once you have more income coming in and see your financial situation improve, you will start feeling better. Not only will you have breathing room (financially), but you will feel pride in taking care of yourselves.

 

I wish you both luck in seeing what needs to be done and doing it. :grouphug:

 

[RanchGirl]

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[Berta]

Is there any way to lower your rent?

 

We weren't in debt, but we recognized early on that we could not sustain the lifestyle we were living on our incomes once my business went belly up in 2008. Closing my business allowed me to stay home and start homeschooling. We lived in an expensive area and our income wouldn't be able to support it in the long run.

 

We put our house up for sale and found a house 600 miles away that was much more affordable. It took 2 years for our house to sell and in the mean time my DH and I were living apart. I was in the new house with our girls, he was in the old house until it sold, or until he could find a job here. I took a full time job (barely over minimum wage) working from 6am-4pm to afford the second house. I had a two hour lunch break and that is when I would come home and help my older daughter with her school work. I had no choice but to put my younger daughter into public school. She spent the end of first grade and all of 2nd grade in PS. My older daughter got my little one up, ready for school and got her on and off the bus.

 

My DH stayed at his job and in the old house until it sold. He moved here when that finally happened and was able to find a job within 6 weeks. (In an area where jobs are hard to come by). He has to commute 45 mins each way, but the pay is actually a bit more than what he made while living in our old house. We went from paying $2,000 a month in a mortgage to paying $457 a month in a mortgage. I was able to quit my job and my daughter is back homeschooling. It was REALLY hard, but we did it and now finances are not really an issue. We cover our bills and have a bit left over at the end of the month.

 

If you can cut your housing expenses, that would be a good start.

[Tiffnkids]

From Rich Dad, Poor Dad . . ."Broke is temporary, but poor is forever."

 

Seems like you aren't just experiencing a short term financial set back, but setting yourselves for a lifetime of "just barely getting by."

 

I have seen sadly many instances of men (and in some cases women, too) allowing their families to suffer through foreclosure, divorce, hunger, even homelessness because they didn't "want" to work/work more. I have heard excuses such as: I can't get a regular job because I am - starting a business/writing a book/need to be home, I won't take THAT job because it - doesn't pay enough/is too far away/requires weekends or evenings/is "beneath" me. I have seen families destroyed by laziness, selfishness, and immaturity.

 

Someone needs to get off their butt, so your family can get on its feet.

 

I am sorry if this seems harsh. Your story just really hit a sore spot for me - I have watched this situation play out too many times with my family members and friends. I really hope that your family is able to turn things around.

[ficbot]

So, taking into account everything you have said about what will and won't work for you given your situation, and taking into account what advice you have gotten from everybody in this thread, I thought I would try and put together a reasonable gameplan for you. I am very passionate about this topic (as I think are several others posting in this thread) and we are only trying to help you. I hope some of this advice reasonates with you.

 

1) The first thing you need to do is reduce that monthly $200 shortfall as much as you can. Call all the creditors, ASAP. Negotiate with them. Work out a payment plan. Write down the numbers they give you for a minimum payment. These will be fixed expenses in your new budget.

 

2) Call your internet provider, phone provider and any other service provider that you use. Explain to them the situation. Ask them if there is any promotion they can give you, alternate plan they can give you etc. which would reduce your monthly cost. If they say no, they say no but maybe they will say yes. When I did this, I found that I could move to a different type of chequing account with my bank and save almost $20 a month in fees.

 

3) Make a budget. The way you do this is: write down your monthly take-home pay at the top. Then deduct all your fixed expenses---not the fuzzy stuff, but the must-pays like rent, the minimum bill payments you got in step 1, the bill payment numbers you got in step 2 etc. This does not include groceries and shoes and things like that. This includes things you pay a fixed bill for, and only those things.

 

4) The amount you have left once your fixed expenses are covered is your budget for variable expenses. Divide it up amongst food, children's expenses, clothing/gifts and other. The mistake a lot of people make with this is deciding on an amount they will spend on, say, groceries, before they make the budget. No. This is how much money you have and you have to either make more money or make the money you have work better. So if you make so little that you can only manage $50 a week for food instead of the $75 you thought you would spend, then you have to either make up the extra money somehow or figure out a way to manage on $50 instead because that is all you have.

 

5) If your husband will not work more, then this next part is in your hands. Find a way to squirrel away a slush fund. This will be your cushion on weeks where you truly do run out of food and have no more money. Sell things, do odd jobs, work an extra shift at your odd job, whatever. Since you seem unwilling to work longer hours for the long-term, maybe give yourself one 'hell month' where you suffer through it, work as much as you humanely can, and then stop the overtime and see how much you have. If you make $1200 extra during this hell month, through selling things, extra work, whatever, that will give you an extra $100 a month to work with for the next 12 months.

 

6) Now that you are hopefully stabilized, consider any long-term changes your family as a whole can make to improve the situation over the long-term. Can your husband be persuaded to work one extra shift a month, with that money going to the debt? Can you do that? Can you cut back on kid expenses until all of this is done? Can you cut back the homeschool expenses and write your own materials (which you can maybe market and sell later?) Will your side business (you didn't say what it is) pick up by then? Do one of your kids have crafty talents and maybe they want to run an Etsy store?

 

As for the no meat, I can only speak for myself, but I am not a great cook and I find it super-easy to cook meatless meals. Here are some of the things we eat in my house. My guy is a picky eater so it is mostly plain fare, but it is healthy and satisfying simple food.

 

Breakfast: Oatmeal (he likes the flavoured packets, I usually eat the real stuff and mix in some peanut butter and honey, or unsweetened applesauce and a handful of nuts or seeds or raisins), cold cereal if you buy it from a bulk bin and not a grocery, granola cereal (make your own with rolled oats, nuts, seeds and raisins from the bulk bin), toast with peanut butter or jam or cream cheese, smoothies with banana and frozen fruit, breakfast burritos (you can make ahead and freeze), muffins or scones (we go out for this but you can make your own easily), pancakes or waffles etc.

 

Lunch: He always has a peanut butter and jam sandwich with grapes on the side. I am more varied than this. Usually, I have some fruit, a side item like crackers or pretzels (we buy at a bulk food store) and an entree which may be: a bagel with cream cheese, a wrap or sandwich, a lentil or legume-based soup (we buy these in large jars at the grocery store but you can make your own easily and inexpensively), a noodle soup packet with veggies and chickpeas (I flash-freeze these and have a big bag in the freezer so I can scoop out a handful), rice crackers with hummus or bean dip, a frozen entree like a burrito or lasagne (we buy these on sale), leftover pasta if we had it for dinner, leftover cooked grains (couscous or quinoa) with veggies and beans, leftover pancakes if we we had them earlier (with syrup for dipping, and maybe a hard-boiled egg or protein-based side), a rice bowl with lentils or beans...

 

Snacks: I am trying to eat more protein, so I nearly always have half an apple (or a whole apple) with a measured serving of peanut butter or sunflower seeds. Other good snacks: pretzels with hummus or peanut butter, a granola or oat bar (easy to make yourself), a snack-sized smoothie (with half a banana instead of a whole one), a muffin or slice of banana bread, crackers or baked chips with hummus or cheese dip, yogurt with a dip container of granola stirred in, a hard-boiled egg sliced and stacked onto cucumber rounds etc.

 

Dinner: Mac and cheese (we buy boxes on sale, he won't let me make from scratch because he has the palate of a five-year-old), pasta with tomato sauce, mini pizzas made on pita bread or English muffins, lemon couscous (from a mix, we buy on sale) with add-ons as desired, bagel with topping of choice, noodles with peanut sauce (I don't eat these but he does), lentil soup or chili (easy and inexpensive to make), a big salad with whatever thrown in (I eat but he doesn't), veggie burgers (I eat, he doesn't) and so on...

 

Good luck! I really hope you can figure out a good plan for yourself.

[Wildcat]

From Rich Dad, Poor Dad . . ."Broke is temporary, but poor is forever."

 

Seems like you aren't just experiencing a short term financial set back, but setting yourselves for a lifetime of "just barely getting by."

 

I have seen sadly many instances of men (and in some cases women, too) allowing their families to suffer through foreclosure, divorce, hunger, even homelessness because they didn't "want" to work/work more. I have heard excuses such as: I can't get a regular job because I am - starting a business/writing a book/need to be home, I won't take THAT job because it - doesn't pay enough/is too far away/requires weekends or evenings/is "beneath" me. I have seen families destroyed by laziness, selfishness, and immaturity.

 

Someone needs to get off their butt, so your family can get on its feet.

 

I am sorry if this seems harsh. Your story just really hit a sore spot for me - I have watched this situation play out too many times with my family members and friends. I really hope that your family is able to turn things around.

 

I had to quote this because it was too good to just "like".

 

[Jane in NC]

If your husband will not work more than 30 hours per week, could he assume a larger role in homeschooling so that you can take on a second job? It seems that this is a case where you need greater cash flow, i.e. a second income.  Since your husband won't work more than 30 hours, someone else (ahem, that would be you) has to rise to the challenge. 

 

Good luck.  I would not be charitably inclined toward my spouse in this situation.

[2squared]

From Rich Dad, Poor Dad . . ."Broke is temporary, but poor is forever."

 

This is a fantastic quote, and so very, very true.  We homeschooled for six years and LOVED it.  Dh got to the point where he wasn't making enough money for the lifestyle we wanted to live and he couldn't handle the stress of his job.  He couldn't find another position, so I sucked it up and went back to work.  Dh is now home with my toddler, my four other kids are in parochial school, and I am working FT.  I cried buckets and buckets.  But...you know what?  I think it will work out better than our previous situation.  We have a path to be financially comfortable (or better) while our kids are in a fantastic school.  Their parochial school is one small step from homeschooling.  This heart-wrenching change may be the best thing for our family. 

 

You need more income.  Period.  End of story.  Poor is forever.  Do you want this to be your life?  Do you want this for your kids? 

[idnib]

Can the 15 yo work? My friend's 12 yo currently has babysitting and dog walking jobs to pay for her activities and their related expenses.

 

I worked in an ice cream parlor when I was 15 1/2, which was the legal working age in our state back in the stone ages. I don't know what it is now. 10-12 hours/week at minimum wage would really help you guys with your shortfall.

[bolt.]

I think you should pick one large debt or bill per month to just not pay. Use that amount to overpay your smallest debt until it is gone. As soon as it's gone, your financial picture will make sense again. Very few places will be raising much of a fuss about you being just one month behind on their payments. They don't know you are taking turns doing this to everyone. If one round of skipping minimums doesn't knock out your smallest debt, another round will probably be OK, but it's obviously not a long term solution. It's a "cope with crisis" solution. (Some bills you might be able to skip month after month without many repercussions other than your credit score. Something like a student loan or a medical bill might be safely ignored until you manage the first step of 'snowballing' away your smallest debt.)

 

To know if this will work, I'd have to know how many creditors you have, the totals owing and the minimum payments -- plus the monthly billing amounts of your usual bills. Obviously, that's very personal, I'm just saying that I don't know whether or not it's appropriate advice for your exact scenario.

 

---

 

You also might need to re-think your whole foods commitment. Filler foods can be an important part of an impoverished diet. Some are whole (brown rice, pearl barley, beans, lentils, oatmeal, potatoes, cabbage) but some are not (pasta, bread). Some whole foods are absolutely not in your financial best interests, even if they are a great part of a healthy diet. You might need to return to your ideal eating scheme *after* you have your finances back under control. If food stamps are insufficient, it's probably time for more "filler foods" whether you like them or not.

 

Food changes are also a way to get under your DH's skin and help him really *feel* the truth that his income is insufficient for his family's needs (and his own).

 

---

 

I really don't think that the whole entire amount that you would make at a hypothetical full time job would be eaten up by the costs (clothing/lunch/transportation) of putting your children into public schooling. That seems absurd. How little could you possibly make that it would be all spent on just those things? (Are you, hypothetically, currently *nudist* homeschoolers who skip lunch as a practice of daily fasting?)

 

I think I get that public schooling is not what you or your children want -- but it is where moms and dads *must* send their children for a mediocre education if/when they end up incapable of both good schooling and appropriate bread-winning at the same time. If you can afford both at the same time, that's wonderful. You are only $200 away from that -- but if you can't, honestly, can't means can't. Food and shelter are more important than the educational advantages of homeschooling. If it's really at that point of forced choice, you need to be employed, and your kids need to be educated (however mediocre it is, and no matter how unhappy it makes them) elsewhere. Eventually there is just that bottom line.

[2squared]

Oh, my gosh.  I just went back and read a few of your posts from the last months.

 

You MUST increase your family's income, with or without your husband.  You are on the brink of homelessness, and your rental sounds like a poverty rental.  I can't imagine placing homeschooling ahead of safe, secure housing.  I can't imagine placing homeschooling ahead of paying essential bills...with no real path or plan for more income.

 

You CAN do this.  You can put your family in a better place.  Your kids need you to do this for them.  I get how hard it is.  I really, truly, honestly do.  I still cry when I drive by my kids' school.  Thing is....they need money for food and shelter more than they need a homeschool education.  They need health insurance, electricity, and safe transportation.  They need parents (or parent in this case) who aren't stressed and consumed with worry over meeting basic needs.  And they don't need a foolish parent who is willing to uproot them and move them around the country with no plan, no money, and no safety net.  They don't need a parent more worried about the size of his backyard and how much light is in his kitchen than how he is going to provide food and shelter for his kids. 

 

STOP with the madness.  Create a new plan, a new vision for your family.  You CAN do it. 

[zoobie]

If there were credit cards only in my husband's name and he is unwilling to work and is racking up more debt, I'd look at what mine and my children's lives would be like without him as a factor. I would consult a reputable bankruptcy attorney. I would be putting my earnings toward the debt in my name and savings in my name. I'd close joint debt accounts and pay them off. If I couldn't support us well, I would be working toward a career that could.

[LMV]

With more information about your situation I have to say I'm sorry that you are in this situation.  I agree with others that you [ideally a collective you including your DH in the equation] need a plan to work your way out of this.  It looks like you're probably about $2,500-3,000 below budget for the year baring some kind of a money requiring crisis.  Unfortunately this deficit will likely only increase a bit exponentially if you don't have a plan to change your situation.  The suggestions about negotiating with credit card companies and robbing from Peter to pay Paul may be temporary stopgap solutions while you are putting something better together for the long term.  Unfortunately if you don't put something better together for the long term then these solutions will likely just leave you in a worse situation overall.

 

I understand your desire to homeschool and have one parent home with the kids.  I think if parents can work this it can be ideal and there are various ways that this can work.  Is your husband involved with schooling at all?  I think as women we sometimes buy into the societal message that child rearing and educating is our job but I really think we do our kids a disservice when we don't at least consider which parent is best suited to various roles at different times.  My husband and I both work "part time" (at least by our industry standards---I'm a physician, he is an attorney).  He actually probably works about thirty hours a week outside of the home (time spent in his out of home office, meeting with clients, attending corporate board meetings etc) but also usually manages another fifteen hours a week at home. He actually makes much more money now working "part time" than he did working as a prosecutor. I realize that may raise other societal issues but at the end of the day he has to do what is best for our family.  Hopefully we're raising our children in a way that they can be part of the change they need to see in the world. I can't exactly bring my work home (at least not physically sometimes the emotional stuff follows but I've developed a good decompression approach) but I do CME and keeping up with certifications on my own time when the kids are asleep or otherwise engaged.  Because we both work we divide up teaching, parenting, and house/garden responsibilities based on our own abilities, interests, desires, and times.  More than ninety five percent of the time one of us can be home with the kids and we're blessed with family nearby who step in for those schedule nightmare moments.  We pay that forward in various ways within and outside of the family and it works for us. 

 

I realize that you may read this and think this isn't applicable to your situation but I think the partnership approach in all senses of the word may be the most helpful to you and your husband.  I also realize that it can be hard to communicate when everything else is hard. We have not always excelled at this as a couple.  We struggled to grieve together after the death of our daughter and it was often very hard for us to come together. Ultimately we accepted that we loved each other and our children too much to give up and we figured out how to communicate better and thus support each other better.

 

One final thought, reading your posts I wonder if your husband is struggling with depression (perhaps secondarily to his inability to find reliable work).  I realize it's tempting for many posters to suggest that he needs to just go out and get another job but if he is dealing with depression this may be a big impediment. 

[creekland]

You need more income.  Period.  End of story.  Poor is forever.  Do you want this to be your life?  Do you want this for your kids? 

 

My thoughts exactly... coupled with wondering what they do with the rest of their time if the hubby is only working 30 hours and the OP 25 - both working from home - on the computer.  There seems to be quite a few more hours in the day where one of them could be working for more income even with maintaining homeschooling (since the other parent is still home).

 

We've had hard times with an extremely tight budget and sometimes even had to borrow from family to make ends meet.  But we've never been poor...  When times get tough, the tough get working - doing whatever can be found and looking hard to find it.  Now that we're back (the economy is back - family has been paid back, etc), it feels good to be able to enjoy more in life.  I would NEVER have wanted to be getting more in debt while sitting at home instead... and doing what?  Life is too short to waste it all at home collecting debt.  Bring in an income, spend VERY carefully, get out of debt, and enjoy more of life!  But that's me... being poor is just not what I want.  Broke happens sometimes - and you fix it by more income from working coupled with not spending - not by limiting yourself to 30 hours.

[2squared]

One last thought - don't even think about bankruptcy until you have a plan and a path toward more income.  Bankruptcy is a "solution" that you can only utilize very 7 years or so.  Without more committed income you will be back in this same spot in a very short time.