District gives SAT to all during school day

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I thought this article on the SAT was interesting.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-high-school-students-to-take-sat-exams-for-free/2013/08/20/47be6406-09ba-11e3-8974-f97ab3b3c677_story.html

 

DC will be giving the SAT to all juniors and seniors this school year with the test being given during school hours on a weekday. The district will pay the exam fee.

 

DC already had 83% of its seniors from class of 2012 take the exam. Only five states have a higher rate. Virginia and Maryland had rates in the 70s. Average scores in DC were 300 pts behind MD and VA.

 

I'm not sure what this will fix. Seems like the money would be better spent on fee waivers for students who need help or transportation for those who need it or test prep for all or maybe something radical like books.

 

I was watching part of a documentary about a school in Houston where a counselor was trying to get a kid to take the SAT. I didn't understand why it was an issue on a school day. I wonder how widespread this is.

[regentrude]

So the College Board creates a separate exam for those districts? 'cause they can't use the same one that is given on Saturday....

 

I get the convenience aspect of having it on a school day, but I don't understand the money aspect, since the test is already free for low income students.

 

It sounds a nice idea, however, access is only one side - scores are another:

 

 

Public school students in the District scored an average of 1184 out of a possible 2400 on the SAT in 2012, nearly 300 points below the national average.

 

The extra money might have been better spent in teaching the students and preparing them better.

[8filltheheart]

And what exactly will this accomplish?

[xixstar]

I don't see anything bad of making the SAT and college entrance more possible for more youth in DC. I imagine that they still have children fill out the free application where useful since registration is required to begin with and if it can be schedule during the school day, all the better for making it easier for the kids to take it. Maybe that score will be a little push that will help a student see that college may be possible or help making it a financially feasible to go. But then again, with 83% of seniors already taking the test, that's pretty impressive too.

 

 

 

[mumto2]

I think I took the PSAT during the school day and for free. One of my friends, who had not been college bound (family attitude), ended up eventually being a National Merit Semi Finalist because of that exam being free and accessible. The school staff were shocked that she did so well, really sad they didn't know how bright she was. She did get a scholarship because of it.

 

I think the SAT for free to all has more potential to change a child's future then some of the other programs I hear about. A decent score might encourage someone to continue their education.

I wonder if "percentage of students which take the SAT" is part of some automated high school ranking, and the district is doing this to improve how they rank on some score?

[dirty ethel rackham]

In IL, the ACT is part of the Prairie State exam that all juniors take.  I don't know what it accomplishes.  It has brought down the state average in the ACT. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't see anything bad of making the SAT and college entrance more possible for more youth in DC. I imagine that they still have children fill out the free application where useful since registration is required to begin with and if it can be schedule during the school day, all the better for making it easier for the kids to take it. Maybe that score will be a little push that will help a student see that college may be possible or help making it a financially feasible to go. But then again, with 83% of seniors already taking the test, that's pretty impressive too.

 

If 83% are taking the test as the current system exists (with fee waivers available already), what exactly is the $220,000 paying for?  How much is really gained by getting that last 13% into the exam? 

 

The PSAT is already free for all 9-11 DCPS students and administered during the school day.

 

There are schools in DC where 4 our of 10 ninth graders do not advance to 10th grade. 

 

Citywide, 20 percent of students miss 15+ days of school each year.  40% of ninth graders miss 15+ days (I suspect there is strong overlap with the 40% who aren't going on to 10th grade.)

 

If only about 50% of DCPS 10th grade students are proficient in math and reading, what is the value added for those students (added) [who did not pass high school standards] to take the SAT? [i don't mean a student who is on the edge or who needed a little brush up.  I'm talking about students who are scoring very poorly, or who have not demonstrated mastery of basic skills.]

 

I don't think that a student who has the potential to suceed in college should not be given support (fee waiver, guidance, test prep, even transportation if necessary).  But I do object to the mantra that college is a birthright for all, regardless of preparation, ability or past performance.  I think there are better uses for this money.

 

[Edited above for better clarity.  I think we need to stop acting as if college is the only route to a happy life.  I suspect that in some schools, the push to college for all acts as a perverse disincentive.  If a student cannot do well in high school courses, why should he think college will be better.  And if the choice presented is a) college, b) college, or c) college then why not drop out save time?  I have not been impressed with DC public schools.  I think this SAT for free is a money waster and a white wash on the real problem, which is more about failing schools than test availability.]

[Jane in NC]

NC has joined other states giving the ACT to all juniors in public high schools.  It is not surprising that scores fell since the SAT has been the favored college entrance exam leaving the ACT for only a small percentage of students.

 

NC formerly required a number of end of grade exams in high school.  These have been replaced by the ACT which I don't think is a bad idea. The old exams were written to the state curriculum. The ACT does give a clue of general college preparedness which might be a pleasant surprise for a kid who may not think he or she is college material.

[Barbara H]

As other posters mentioned there are some states requiring ACT products (ACT, PLAN, EXPLORE and now career testing) as well. I have mixed feelings about it. Not having an ACT or SAT during high school is another barrier for students who graduate and want to go back to school so it does help some to have had the testing done already and there are kids who get better scores than expected. So having a test in during high school can be helpful.

 

At the same time there is a huge profit motive to push more and more testing and accumulating more data isn't the same thing as using it in a meaningful way to improve the education of individual students. Or, as one public school counselor said to me at a training, "We already know who is failing and who the system is failing. Giving me more and more data doesn't give me any power to fix anything. We don't even look at half of the data we already have because we are so overloaded."

[Julie in MN]

It seems like a better idea than the school district near us, where all students get most of a day off for the PSAT, and students can choose whether to test or take the day off...

 

Julie

[angela in ohio]

In Michigan, the ACT is given to all juniors at in the spring. It is part of the state graduation testing that happens over three days (ACT one day, workforce placement test another day, and the rest of the state test the third day.) My dd just did it this past year at the local ps. Like other states, Michigan's state ACT average is now lower than it used to be.

[8filltheheart]

At the same time there is a huge profit motive to push more and more testing and accumulating more data isn't the same thing as using it in a meaningful way to improve the education of individual students. Or, as one public school counselor said to me at a training, "We already know who is failing and who the system is failing. Giving me more and more data doesn't give me any power to fix anything. We don't even look at half of the data we already have because we are so overloaded."

 

Steering off-topic.......Exactly.   When our oldest ds was dual enrolled at the local university in pre-cal 2, there was a raging debate going on in the local paper about requiring teaching to the ACT for math and to start giving the PLAN and EXPLORE in order to bring up test scores.   I wrote a letter to the editor b/c the logic simply drives me batty.  Anyway, I simply wrote that I do not have a degree in math, that I didn't even know what math was on the ACT(at that pt I didn't....I do now), that all I did was simply teach my ds math and yet he scored very well and had the highest grade in his class at the university and had students calling him asking him to tutor them.   I said the solution was to teach math so that students understood math vs. teaching students how to answer questions on a test.

 

His professor cut the article out of the paper and brought it to class.   He asked ds if I was his mom.   Ds was very embarrassed and said yes.   His professor said that he wished bureaucrats could come to the same conclusion.  :)

 

I am anti-testing (at least the standardized testing that exists in this country)  b/c I believe that it has altered education to mean test performance vs. actual education.   

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It seems like a better idea than the school district near us, where all students get most of a day off for the PSAT, and students can choose whether to test or take the day off...

 

Julie

Our district gives PSAT to all 9-11 graders. They pay for official scores for 10th grade. 9/11 graders get their booklet back with the answer key unless they pay for official grading ($18). That would seem to give the chance to discover who is on the cusp and who has been overlooked.

 

I guess I'm looking across the river at DC and wondering how someone thinks the problem is access to the SAT rather than proficiency with reading and writing. This is the same district with articles about kids graduating at the top of their class but struggling in school because they've never had to write a long paper.