Ugh! Meet the teacher night was a huge bust!

[HeatherL]

A little backstory... My son is currently 1st grade age, but reads on a third grade level, we are half way through Saxon 3 for math, and loves and learns Story of the World Ancients.  There is a school district close to use that has a self contained gifted program for students starting in K.  We had my son tested last year at 4 and missed it by a few points.  We figured it was due to the fact of never taking a standardized test before.  We retested him this year and he maxed out in math at 99%, meaning he qualified. 

 

The district has one full gifted academy where the entire school is self contained gifted and then two general schools where there are just gifted classrooms mixed into the general population.  Well it turns out the gifted academy only had 1 class per grade for the young ones and since we are out of district we didn't get a space.  We were put into a self contained gifted class in a general elementary school.  When my husband voiced his concerns to the district rep they said that the students would still get all the same advantages to the academy.  I didn't believe that, but tried to go into tonight with an open mind. 

 

So we walk into tonight and right away there seems to be nothing challenging in this classroom.  A class library filled with picture books, no logic puzzles, (but there was a bin with dinosaur counters - yeah for my kid who has figured out negative numbers on his own), and a teacher who seemed very underwhelmed to be there.  And now is when I become even more aware that this is not going to work.  I first ask her if the kids are ability grouped for math and reading and she (I should also mention I taught public school for 10 years and have done 10 of these back to school nights), she says, "well... we work a grade above in this class."  I say yes I know, but we homeschool and he is actually 2-3 grades ahead for reading and math."  Her answer, "Well, um yeah we'll make sure he's working on his level"  Ok - not a good answer.  Next my son goes up to her later and excitedly asks what they will learn for science and history.  I should pause here and explain that at the academy it's a really cool STEM engineering program used for science.  She stares at him for a moments and says, "well, umm... we'll learn lots of things don't worry" and then she went off telling him that they would have a star student each week, who would get to pick any science experiment and present it to the class.. HUH?  BUT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO TEACH THEM?  My son and I walk away and my husband stayed behind to ask her more questions. He repeats again that we are concerned because if our son is not challenged, he will be bored and become a disruption to those around him.  She asks my husband, "Well what type of things is he doing for math?"  My husband, "um, the third grade saxon math book?"  And she answered with, "oh so really all third grade math." UM YES?!?  DID YOU NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE FIRST 2 TIMES WE SAID IT?  We then find out that there is no language special (the academy teaches Chinese, which my son was so excited about) and violin starting in first grade, but you guessed it, not here either.

 

So now I am back to UGHH!  Don't say the two programs are the same when they are clearly not.  But now the even bigger dilemma is do we let him start for a few weeks on the 5% chance it works and then pull him out when we are 95% sure this is not a good fit.  I wanted to keep homeschooling, my husband wanted him in school, my son just loves other kids and said he is ok if he doesn't really learn anything new... :(

[Dmmetler]

I'd try it-for two reasons.

 

The first is that right now your son is excited and doesn't see the possibility of boredom. So, rather than take that away from him, it makes sense to me to let him try it out, and use that time, as you see how it's going, to pull together your plan B-whether it's back to homeschooling and staying on the waiting list for the academy, staging a sit-in outside the superintendent's office, or whatever.

 

The second is that it might be better than you expect. Just the fact that the school HAS a self-contained GT class is a good thing. Because while your son might well be the only kid reading and doing math on a 3rd grade level in a heterogeneous 3rd grade, he probably isn't in a class that's comprised of the top 1/n (where n= the number of grade level classes) of the kids in that school. Therefore, he's likely to find other kids who enjoy things like Story of the World, and are more than willing to use the materials in the classroom to construct pyramids and discuss building strategies of the Pharoahs, divide the dinosaurs into positive and negative herds and play with the operations (I recall my DD trying to teach another child negative numbers using toy dinosaurs in exactly that way), and so on. Sometimes the best teacher for GT kids at this age group is the one who has no real plan and just steps back and lets the kids find their own way. And maybe, just maybe, that magic will be allowed to happen.

 

 

[ThoughtfulMama]

I'd also like to add that some teachers just don't perform well for parents, but they do a really great job with kids. And I've heard rumors that us parents of gifted kids can be a bit pushy, which adds to teacher discomfort ;). (Not saying you are pushy, just that a teacher might go in with a mindset). It is annoying that the actual opportunities will not be what you were promised, but I'd reserve judgement on the teacher until she gets to know your son a little better.

[MASHomeschooler]

Are you, by chance, in Arizona? That sounds exactly like our district. My daughter (entering 3rd) was in the self-contained class for K. We did have the problems you are worried about - no differentiation for math, very limited content and enrichment, and while these kids were closer to her ability and interests, she was still obviously different. The academy started between her K and 1st year. I loved the idea of it, but for a number of reasons we chose not to attend.

 

We switched to a nearby charter for 1st that has self-contained gifted classes PLUS Individual Learning Plans. They test them at the beginning of the year, and despite having just had 1st grade math in K, she tested into 3rd grade math, so she and a couple other kids from her class went to the 2nd-grade gifted class for 3rd-grade math. It was a better fit, and there are other things I like better about it, too - still not exactly what I was hoping for, but as good as I had come to figure we could expect. The charter opened a second campus closer to us, so we switched there for 2nd - and my son's K. The charter doesn't have a gifted class for K, but they assured us they would meet his needs through the ILP, and he could go to the class he needed for math, etc. Well, after one quarter that was not happening, and my son was losing the light in his eyes. One day when Dad asked him asked him how school was going, he said, "OK, but, well, I know school is for learning, but I haven't learned anything!"

 

So my husband and I discussed it, and asked him if he wanted to homeschool. He gave an excited "Yes!" - and my daughter asked if she could, too. So we started homeschooling after first quarter, and they're both much happier. Sorry; probably not what you wanted to hear, but the program is definitely designed for "moderately gifted", and if your son is highly gifted as mine are, he is as different from them as they are from the "typical" kids. But I would still try out the school he did get into - it could surprise you. If not, you can pull him any time - and he'll be happy to come home rather than upset at missing what he was expecting school would be like.

 

If you are in AZ, I can PM you info about the charter and some other stuff. A friend from my daughter's first grade is going to start homeschooling this year, and she's planning to start a secular, academic/gifted group, so if she does and you do go back to homeschooling, I can send you that info then. Good luck either way!

[Bang!Zoom!]

Heather, try to keep in mind that the commitment there isn't permanent. If he starts, try to make pals and talk with the other parents, trade phone numbers and all that good stuff. Is there any way you can do a little extra on site at the school, like an after school club? If not, could you do something at home or in town with a small group of kids?

 

Are you planning on carrying on your materials at home in any structured sort of plan?

[Nan in Mass]

My youngest went to public kindergarten.  Just public kindergarten.  He was reading fairly well when he arrived.  He wasn't writing because he didn't seem particularly interested and I didn't see any reason he had to learn that early.  He only learned to read early because he insisted on learning.  I was concentrating on teaching him other things, thinking that reading and writing were no big deal and he could learn them easily later.  He had other ideas, obviously.  Anyway, I sent him to kindergarten for non-academic reasons and if you asked him, he would tell you that he learned nothing at all there.  There was a teacher, an assistant teacher, and a number of aids.  One of the aids, who took my son and the other child who was reading aside for the reading period, said to me, "Scary, hunh?" as she watched him draw a illustration of the story he'd just read which had a child peeking in from outside the paper.  Hmmm...  But she was nice and it isn't as though her two students needed any help.  Somebody had chosen books for each of them that were the right level.  My son may not have learned much, academically, but he learned quite a lot.  The kindergarten classroom inlcuded everyone, including the special needs kids.  My son chose to play most often with them.  He played physical games with the very active one.  As the youngest of three boys, he was unphased by his rambunctiousness.  And he played quieter games with the quiet one, saying that he liked him because he didn't have to worry about him breaking any of the classroom rules.  We talked quite a lot about people's differences.  He learned to be in a classroom and in a group of other children.  The classroom part came in handy when we began doing school more formally when he was seven and I began including him in his older brother's lessons.  He made friends with some other children in town.  I had him continue to go to school for gym for first and second grade.  The gym teacher and I laughed over the fact that that was the only subject I was unable to teach at home.  He probably would have learned all those things later, since he was in scouts and gymanstics, but his kindergarten year made scouts easier for him.  In our town, kindergarten is the first experience some of the children have with strangers.  There was a certain amount of community education (visiting the fire station, etc.) that wasn't a bad idea, either, and not something I would have done on my own.  First grade, when he probably would have had to sit in a chair and work by himself while the rest of the class learned to read, would have been a waste of time, but kindergarten actually was not.  I'm not saying that your kindergarten will be anything like the experience of the gifted academy kindergarten.  It's a shame there wasn't room for him.  But it might turn out not to be a complete waste of time.  Just getting to know some of the other parents in your area who have children his age might be very useful.  Meanwhile, could you do Saturday school for Chinese?  Piano lessons?  Perhaps the kindergarten would be glad to give him time to work on his Saxon math excersizes?  You could go over the lesson with him at home and he could do the work during math.  Or there might be an aid who could do this?  Reading is likely to be individualized, anyway, and consist of reading something challenging and then discussing it with someone.  Hopefully, the class will contain one of those children who is very imaginative and inventive when it comes to recess games. : )  I have a feeling I'm supposed to be putting an e on the end of that sort of aide.  Sorry.  Do you stay on the waiting list for the gifted academy?  Perhaps somebody will move unexpectedly at the end of the summer.

 

Nan

[jenbrdsly]

I'd still go for it.  Some teachers get extremely nervous at Back to School Night, but that doesn't mean they aren't good with kids.

 

Also, regarding the math manipulatives.  Just because you saw dinosaur counters doesn't mean that this teacher doesn't have anything to offer your child.  Correct me if I'm wrong Hivers, but my understanding is that Saxon Math is a traditional math program that emphasizes algorithms and memorization over Constructivism. So it could be the teacher is prepared to offer you child a different learning experience; one that emphasizes open ended problems, big ideas, exploration and critical thinking.

 

Dmmetler is right.  Any gifted program is a good sign.  Many people aren't so lucky, so it's worth it to give it a chance.  (imo)  :)

[SKL]

I too would try it on a provisional basis.  I don't think you can tell from the brief first meeting how it will be for your son.  It seems to me that you were a little quick to judge, to be honest.  It's a classroom; all the kids are coming in with different talents.  Your child isn't going to be challenged 100% of the time, but that isn't all bad.  The opportunity to work and play with other kids may outweigh those concerns.  Or it may not.  It's great that you have the option to homeschool and that your son's school does differentiate some.

[boscopup]

I'd also give it a try, since the kid is excited. If he's bored several weeks in, you can pull him out then. Not a big deal.

 

My son LOVED school in K, but in 1st grade, he got bored when it was "work" and not "party all the time", and that "work" was below his level. When I brought up homeschooling to him, he immediately said YES. Now he has absolutely NO desire to go to school. My middle son, on the other hand, hasn't tried school (and I think it might be damaging to him), so he sometimes wants to go because he has no concept of how boring it is compared to what we do. :)

 

And yes, the teacher may turn out to be fabulous. Hard to tell from parent night. You'll figure out soon enough whether the teacher is differentiating for your child enough or not. Also, you might need to give it several weeks. I know at my son's school, the first 3-4 weeks were reviewing the previous year and figuring out where everyone was. So differentiation didn't happen until after that.

[Arcadia]

  We then find out that there is no language special (the academy teaches Chinese, which my son was so excited about) and violin starting in first grade, but you guessed it, not here either.

 

So now I am back to UGHH!  Don't say the two programs are the same when they are clearly not. 

  

If your child is interested in Chinese and Violin, both can be self-taught. Violin is better learn in a one-to-one setting anyway and my older is sensory hyper which makes violin a torture (tuning is not perfect, chin rest is not comfortable, shoulder pad is "rubbing" his shoulders)

Even in identical programs, it is how the teacher executes the programs that makes the difference. My older had a kindergarten teacher who is an "expert" in handling 2E children. Makes all the difference even though his is a "normal" classroom. Let your child try the program out before being pessimistic about it.

 

And yes, the teacher may turn out to be fabulous. Hard to tell from parent night. You'll figure out soon enough whether the teacher is differentiating for your child enough or not. Also, you might need to give it several weeks. I know at my son's school, the first 3-4 weeks were reviewing the previous year and figuring out where everyone was. So differentiation didn't happen until after that.

:iagree:

[Nan in Mass]

It may be, also, that some of the gifted children are unevenly gifted or just previously haven't been interested in numbers and actually need those dinosaurs to be taught place value. (And I agree about them being a free time toy as well.)

Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised. : )

Nan

[SKL]

It may be, also, that some of the gifted children are unevenly gifted or just previously haven't been interested in numbers and actually need those dinosaurs to be taught place value. (And I agree about them being a free time toy as well.)

Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised. : )

Nan

 

Yes, my gifted daughter isn't all that strong in math.  She might have benefited from "counters" if she would take math instruction (but that's a whole nother issue ;) ).  Not for counting but for "regrouping" and other higher skills.

 

Having bought the Base Ten set and the C-Rods, and read some of the suggestions enclosed with those products, I realize that counters / simple manipulatives can be used at many levels.  IIRC the Base Ten set is recommended for up to grade 6.

[jenbrdsly]

FYI:  I hope we didn't scare you off from Hive HeatherL!  This is a safe place to express concern about school choices and how the heck to deal with gifted kids.  Feel free to share your angst.  :)

[kiwik]

If he wants to it what have you got to lose. Maybe don't go out and get a full time job until you know whether you really aren't home schooling. if you actually really want to hone school maybe you need to discuss that with your husband. I would be annoyed about the violin and Chinese too. It is fslse advertising to say you will get the same when you won't. A self contained class sounds better than most but they may consider they have done all they need to do and therefore refuse to differentiate.

[Nan in Mass]

FYI:  I hope we didn't scare you off from Hive HeatherL!  This is a safe place to express concern about school choices and how the heck to deal with gifted kids.  Feel free to share your angst.  :)

 

[HeatherL]

Not too scared off ;)  We decided to let him try it.  I did speak with a friend of ours who teaches for the district and has 2 children in that program (at the academy) and she agreed that it sounded a little "off"  I'm not sure how well it's going.  He's the only one who has had to flip his card both days (talking to other - a couple times in line and today when he finished a project early).  I would like to make it till Thursday to go to curriculum night to really see what they will do this year because we still have no idea.  So far he has brought home a paper where he had to write a sentence about a book she read them and draw a picture and those evan-moor daily math and reading worksheets (but from the 1st grade book - um, I thought everything was supposed to be a year ahead). 

 

And I've thought about Chinese school (found one not too far away) and violin and all that, but by the time he gets home at 4 he's wound up, already has sports 2-3 days a week (depending on time of year)  I don't really want to pile more on him without much down time. 

 

When we've talked to him about his thoughts on staying or going back to homeschooling, he wants to homeschool because he misses his legos or just go to public school for the specials ;)  So I'm hoping we'll make a final decision this weekend.

[Arcadia]

And I've thought about Chinese school (found one not too far away) and violin and all that, but by the time he gets home at 4 he's wound up, already has sports 2-3 days a week (depending on time of year) I don't really want to pile more on him without much down time.

Your child will never be too old to learn Chinese or Violin :)

 

ETA:

We have a 1/4 size and 1/2 size violins that my boys self-teach and enjoy playing for fun. We bought the starter student violins when older was five.

[kiwik]

The talking thing is probably just adapting. I'm sorry to sound negative but having put him in school I really think you should give at least 3 months before making a different decision.