Logic of English Essentials...what do you like and dislike

[hjordan423]

If you use or have used Logic of English Essentials, what do you like about it?  What do you dislike about it?

[prissygirls]

Like:

 it is open and go

she has videos of herself teaching each spelling list

that she has advanced spelling list and videos of it as well

the rules and systematic approach

 

Dislikes:

none

 

[kirstenhill]

Pros: I like how logically it presents all the rules and phonograms.  It's very easy to use, and there is plenty of help available if you need it (videos, interacting on their FB page, etc).   It has been really, really helpful to my DD (using it in late 2nd through 3rd grade).

 

Cons: If you are looking for "spelling only", there is extra stuff to ignore, especially in the workbook (not that it is that hard to skip those portions).  Also, there is only 1-2 years of material in Essentials (Maybe just a bit over two years if you go once through with the regular lists, and once through with the advanced lists).   Denise Eide recommends using a word roots program following Essentials, but I think even after a second year of Essentials, my DD may still need more practice with a spelling program of some sort, and at this point there is not another LoE product to use following the Advanced Lists of Essentials.  I guess we'll see how she is doing after another year with Essentials. 

 

I've written several posts about how we've used LoE on my blog...here's my most recent post about it, with links to earlier posts at the top of that one. 

[Guest]

bumping...

[Hunter]

I just have the digital TM and the app.

 

I like that the TM displays well on my iPad mini. It did not work as well on my old netbook though, so beware of using on devices that don't turn and pinch open.

 

What I don't like is that it is not finished.

[lorisuewho]

I took my two boys through Essentials this past school year. And, I'm doing Foundations with my 4.5 year old now. Here are my thoughts on Essentials:

 

Likes

1. There was no confusion on what I was going to do each day. The manual is very directive and thorough.

2. The games were fun.

3. Buying the workbook made everything open and go.

4. The manual is extremely well-organized and of very high quality itself. Even though it is hard cover, the manual opens really relatively flat. The paper is of good quality. There is nothing distracting in the manual. It is just a very nice book itself.

5. There are videos to train you to use the program for free.

6. Denise is always available to answer questions.

7. There are advanced spelling lists so the program could be gone through a second time if desired.

8. It isn't as slow as All About Spelling, but you can make the pace what you want it. With Essentials you can speed it up or slow it down. There are plenty of games and activities to really make the program last for two years the first go around.

9. My children learned so much. I learned quite a bit myself.

 

 

I feel confident in teaching spelling. I am really not concerned at all about there not currently being another program after Essentials. I felt I had a lot of choices of where we were going to go next. We could have gone through again with the advanced lists. I also considered going with How To Teach Spelling, because now I felt I had the tools to do that program better. I also thought about going with a workbook and doing Rod and Staff spelling. In the end I decided to go with Dictation Day by Day. We are going to read the sentence of the day, copy it, mark the challenging words in an LOE fashion, review our phonogram cards, and then I'm going to give them a dictation sentence on the previous day's copywork. I really only feel confident teaching through dictation and copywork because I personally now have the tools to understand the rules of the English language.

 

Cons:

A quality program requires a large financial investment. For some families, this just isn't the best choice because of this. There are other programs that are less expensive. They may not be as "full" as Logic of English, but they are still great programs.

[deerforest]

I purchased, read, and attempted many programs, including : How to Teach Spelling, Writing Road to Reading, AAS 1-3, ABCs and All Their Tricks, etc. Nothing was a good fit for either our learning or teaching styles.

 

We started LoE Essentials soon after it first came out. We took our time and completed it in about a year--we didn't do spelling weekly and took large chunks of time away from school. I really spent about 1 week per lesson.

 

It was the perfect fit for us. It had the right mix of activities, wasn't too much busy work for my workbook-averse girl, and best of all, her spelling skills are so dramatically improved this year compared to the same time last year. I know because we are going through it again now at a much more rapid pace (2-3 lessons a week), and also re-reviewing the words from the original lists, and she has retained them all so far. 

 

It was the perfect blend of oral and written work, meshed with the games and sufficient review at a fast enough pace for us. I do wish the advanced phonograms were fully integrated, but I have the list and all the other resources that I am confident to just use the same methodology now with those.

[Soror]

I would have to ditto lorisuewho and deerforest. I will be completing Level B of the Foundations program this month w/ dd. I mostly used Foundations in the Beta version, although I switched over to the release version a few weeks ago. I am now on Lesson 11 of LoE Essentials w/ ds.

 

Pros both:

- Very clearly laid out and detailed lessons

- lots of explicit information on spelling rules and analysis, I really believe that it is equipping both of us w/ everything we need to spell anything- I wasn't a bad speller but I'm learning much more about the whys behind our language

- she truly focuses on learning in multiple ways- visual, kinesthetic and audio

 

Foundations:

- a very good amount of focus on phonemic awareness and various activities to work on developing this skill

- kid friendly and entertaining lessons- very creative games and other activities to make learning much more enjoyable

 

Cons:

-Cost

 

I did have some complaints about Foundations in its Beta version, however now that I am using the released version all my complaints have been cleared up. The lessons and writing were a bit much but now seem to be just right. The new suggested sequence is much more realistic as well.

 

I actually bought and read WRTR 4th ed this summer and read it a few times, however after seeing the release version of Foundations and getting a fair way into Essentials and comparing them I'm even more pleased w/ LoE, although now I feel I could teach WRTR if I wanted. LoE has much more explicit info and details on spelling lists and rules. I love the analysis of the words and sounds. For me LoE helps you to look at the big picture.

 

Like Lori I feel pretty confident to teach spelling at this point. I like however having her lessons with the analysis already planned out. Before I felt that LoE was a perhaps a lot more restrictive being a scripted program however WRTR and other programs have a prescribed order to teach phonograms and word lists as well as a certain method to do so. Next year I am considering going through LoE Essentials w/ ds again with the advanced lists or perhaps HTTS (which I think I could teach as well as I can see so many similarities now) or perhaps R&S.

[lorisuewho]

I did have some complaints about Foundations in its Beta version, however now that I am using the released version all my complaints have been cleared up. The lessons and writing were a bit much but now seem to be just right. The new suggested sequence is much more realistic as well.

I was doing the foundations beta testing also. I'm basically starting over with the new B level in a few weeks. It looks awesome! I'm glad to hear that you like it.

[SewingMom2many]

We just started LoE so I'm not very experienced with it yet but so far we love it! I've got one kid working through Essentials and two kids working through Foundations. 

 

Pros

Lessons are open and go

Things are flexible in that we can do a lesson a day or every two days or even one a week. 

I like how she has the lesson structure spelled out for different types of kids (a 7 year old reader, a 5 -6 year old emerging reader, etc.)

My kids absolutely love the games that go along with it.

There are training videos so you'll know the why and how of what you are teaching

I feel like there is a rhyme and reason to our spelling lists

I am thrilled that my kids can read cursive (even my 4 year old!)

It seems to be a very good fit for our family 

I have learned a lot

My kids have learned a lot

Spelling and English is making sense!! 

I have All About Spelling and this doesn't have so many parts and pieces so I feel like it's much more manageable.

I have about 5 other spelling programs and this one is so much better than all of them.

 

Cons

Expensive - I bought almost everything and it cost quite a bit

 

[Guest]

I just have the digital TM and the app.

 

I like that the TM displays well on my iPad mini. It did not work as well on my old netbook though, so beware of using on devices that don't turn and pinch open.

 

What I don't like is that it is not finished.

I thought Essentials was finished. Are other levels planned after she finishes Foundations?

[MamaSprout]

Like:

 it is open and go

she has videos of herself teaching each spelling list

that she has advanced spelling list and videos of it as well

the rules and systematic approach

 

Dislikes:

none

 

This. Plus it is extremely "efficient". Pretty much everything for Language Arts except literature.

[kirstenhill]

I thought Essentials was finished. Are other levels planned after she finishes Foundations?

 

Essentials is finished.  I think there was possibly a brief mention somewhere of future more advanced levels, but Denise has been pretty clear recently that their next priority is finishing the Foundations series.  Who knows what will happen after that?  Anyway, I think Hunter feels like it is "unfinished" (as do I) because there aren't enough lists or instructional levels to take a student all the way to high school or college level of spelling. 

 

Some students may have the tools to continue their study, as Denise suggests, just with a word roots program...but I think some of the students who really need a program like LoE in the first place will need continued instruction and review beyond 1-2 years spent with Essentials.  My DD's spelling has improved a lot (after 1 yr of Essentials)...but especially when she is just writing "for fun" (as opposed to a school assignment or specifically for a spelling test), her spelling is still pretty bad at times.  She needs a lot more practice to really internalize all the words/phonograms/rules that she "knows" when she is really trying to work on spelling.

[MamaSprout]

Would Phonic Zoo and WWS 1 would be a good next step after LOE?

[Soror]

I'm not familiar at all w/ Phonic Zoo so I have no idea if it is a good follow-up. However, I feel fairly confident in saying that WWS would NOT be a good follow-up. The level of writing skills required in LoE would not be a good preparation for WWS. They are not on the same level. As far as spelling I think one could just test their child into any of the numerous other programs. Personally I would look towards programs that are more phonogram based. I think either AAS or HtTS are probably the closest follow-ups.

[MamaSprout]

I'm not familiar at all w/ Phonic Zoo so I have no idea if it is a good follow-up. However, I feel fairly confident in saying that WWS would NOT be a good follow-up. The level of writing skills required in LoE would not be a good preparation for WWS. They are not on the same level. As far as spelling I think one could just test their child into any of the numerous other programs. Personally I would look towards programs that are more phonogram based. I think either AAS or HtTS are probably the closest follow-ups.

 

Phonic Zoo is similar to AAS (IEW) program that starts midway through AAS, but is audio based. I don't know what HtTS is... thought I knew most acronyms by now.

[Guest]

HtTS means How to Teach Spelling available from EPS Books.

 

 

[Soror]

Phonic Zoo is similar to AAS (IEW) program that starts midway through AAS, but is audio based. I don't know what HtTS is... thought I knew most acronyms by now.

OH, I believe that is Phonetic Zoo, from my albeit brief research I didn't think they were very similar in their focus.

[MamaSprout]

OH, I believe that is Phonetic Zoo, from my albeit brief research I didn't think they were very similar in their focus.

 

Hmmm... obviously I haven't looked at it very closely if it's "phonetic" and I'm calling it "phonic". IEW considers the first levels of AAS as a prequel to Phonetic Zoo:  http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/catalog/spelling . I guess I made a leap b/c Logic of English is considered similar in some ways to AAS.

 

That said, we are partially through LofE, and we do quite a bit of writing across our curriculum. I'm not sure what we will do next year for Language Arts. I know we will do the higher LofE level spelling, and would like to jump into SWB's writing programs, but I'm not sure what level. I would think WWE4 or WWS1, but only b/c we are writing elsewhere and dd is a motivated to write.

 

We are also beginning Latin, so I'm not sure if a word root program would be overkill.

[wehave8]

Pros: I like how logically it presents all the rules and phonograms.  It's very easy to use, and there is plenty of help available if you need it (videos, interacting on their FB page, etc).   It has been really, really helpful to my DD (using it in late 2nd through 3rd grade).

 

Cons: If you are looking for "spelling only", there is extra stuff to ignore, especially in the workbook (not that it is that hard to skip those portions).  Also, there is only 1-2 years of material in Essentials (Maybe just a bit over two years if you go once through with the regular lists, and once through with the advanced lists).   Denise Eide recommends using a word roots program following Essentials, but I think even after a second year of Essentials, my DD may still need more practice with a spelling program of some sort, and at this point there is not another LoE product to use following the Advanced Lists of Essentials.  I guess we'll see how she is doing after another year with Essentials. 

 

I've written several posts about how we've used LoE on my blog...here's my most recent post about it, with links to earlier posts at the top of that one. 

 

Enjoyed your blog!  Do you have any updates on LOE and your plans for 2014-2015 school year?

 

Pam

[kirstenhill]

Thanks!  My DD did the advanced lists this past year, and that worked out pretty well.  The only thing that bothered me was that we spent a lot of time on some words that 4th graders rarely use, while there are some more basic words she hasn't really "mastered".  So this year we are going to do the "Dictation Resource Book" lists (by Susan C. Anthony), using the "LoE Method" of marking/dictating words.  We'll also do more spelling sentence dictation from that book, which we haven't done a lot of.   I am hoping that doing this book will fill in her gaps of easier words.   We may do some word root study this year as well.

 

I am (believe it or not) still waffling about what to do with DS7 for this school year.   I made it through (I think) about lesson 26 of Essentials with him last year in 1st grade, mainly only doing spelling.  We took a "break" from it toward the end of the year while I was working on teaching him cursive handwriting.   I know that spelling isn't always retained super well at his age, and his spelling is certainly way better than DD's was when she was 7.5.   However, he still regularly forgets phonograms we've drilled over the past two years, and forgot how to spell words he learned at the beginning of 1st grade.  We could "move on" and finish Essentials, but I also kind of feel like he needs to "do it again" so to speak.  However, when I mentioned that idea he was really discouraged at the idea of "repeating" the same spelling words he did in 1st grade...so I am not sure if I want to use another book's lists with the LoE method...or what.  I could also use LoE's high frequency lists from their website and cobble together my own weekly lists.  I own WRTR 4th edition, How to Teach Spelling, and a few other resources.  I could even use the lists from the beginning of Dictation Resource Book with him, I suppose.  I think if LoE Foundations D had been out at the beginning of last fall, that would have been the absolutely perfect program for him at that point (then we would have started Essentials this fall in 2nd). But now the reading in that is to easy for him.  I have pondered buying it and using it anyway for the spelling just because I will need it later anyway for DS5...but $50ish is a lot to spend on spelling for him when I have other options, and other things I need to buy this fall yet.  So...long ramble...And I need to make a decision quick! I am hoping the last-minute pressure in the next couple weeks will help me decide (we aren't starting until September).

 

And DS5...He will use Foundations.  He has mastered pretty much everything in A except the lower case handwriting.  So I think we'll start the year with a quick phonogram review and work on lower case letters.  Then we'll start Foundations B. I am also working through the I See Sam readers with him, so I guess I am not using a "pure" LoE method in teaching him to read.  :-)

[wehave8]

Thanks!  My DD did the advanced lists this past year, and that worked out pretty well.  The only thing that bothered me was that we spent a lot of time on some words that 4th graders rarely use, while there are some more basic words she hasn't really "mastered".  So this year we are going to do the "Dictation Resource Book" lists (by Susan C. Anthony), using the "LoE Method" of marking/dictating words.  We'll also do more spelling sentence dictation from that book, which we haven't done a lot of.   I am hoping that doing this book will fill in her gaps of easier words.   We may do some word root study this year as well.

 

I am (believe it or not) still waffling about what to do with DS7 for this school year.   I made it through (I think) about lesson 26 of Essentials with him last year in 1st grade, mainly only doing spelling.  We took a "break" from it toward the end of the year while I was working on teaching him cursive handwriting.   I know that spelling isn't always retained super well at his age, and his spelling is certainly way better than DD's was when she was 7.5.   However, he still regularly forgets phonograms we've drilled over the past two years, and forgot how to spell words he learned at the beginning of 1st grade.  We could "move on" and finish Essentials, but I also kind of feel like he needs to "do it again" so to speak.  However, when I mentioned that idea he was really discouraged at the idea of "repeating" the same spelling words he did in 1st grade...so I am not sure if I want to use another book's lists with the LoE method...or what.  I could also use LoE's high frequency lists from their website and cobble together my own weekly lists.  I own WRTR 4th edition, How to Teach Spelling, and a few other resources.  I could even use the lists from the beginning of Dictation Resource Book with him, I suppose.  I think if LoE Foundations D had been out at the beginning of last fall, that would have been the absolutely perfect program for him at that point (then we would have started Essentials this fall in 2nd). But now the reading in that is to easy for him.  I have pondered buying it and using it anyway for the spelling just because I will need it later anyway for DS5...but $50ish is a lot to spend on spelling for him when I have other options, and other things I need to buy this fall yet.  So...long ramble...And I need to make a decision quick! I am hoping the last-minute pressure in the next couple weeks will help me decide (we aren't starting until September).

 

And DS5...He will use Foundations.  He has mastered pretty much everything in A except the lower case handwriting.  So I think we'll start the year with a quick phonogram review and work on lower case letters.  Then we'll start Foundations B. I am also working through the I See Sam readers with him, so I guess I am not using a "pure" LoE method in teaching him to read.  :-)

 

Did you ever see Dictation Day by Day: A Modern Speller?  I'm sure I found it on this board somewhere, but I can't remember where.  I would like to implement it some this year after we get our phonics & spelling lessons down a little better.

 

Pam

[lorisuewho]

Did you ever see Dictation Day by Day: A Modern Speller?  I'm sure I found it on this board somewhere, but I can't remember where.  I would like to implement it some this year after we get our phonics & spelling lessons down a little better.

 

Pam

This is what we moved onto after completing Essentials. I use the LOE method of spelling analysis for difficult words. We do copywork and dictation with these sentences.

[wehave8]

This is what we moved onto after completing Essentials. I use the LOE method of spelling analysis for difficult words. We do copywork and dictation with these sentences.

It was probably from you that I saw it.  Thank!

 

Pam

[kirstenhill]

Did you ever see Dictation Day by Day: A Modern Speller?  I'm sure I found it on this board somewhere, but I can't remember where.  I would like to implement it some this year after we get our phonics & spelling lessons down a little better.

 

Pam

 

I have seen it...It doesn't appeal to me as much, but I am having a hard time putting my finger on exactly why.  I think if DS7 were a bit more solid on the material in Essentials, it might make more sense.  At the moment it seems a bit "random" in terms of the words covered, but maybe I haven't studied it enough to see the rhyme and reason to it.  I like the "Dictation Resource Book" better for DD because it specifically covers 1000 most commonly used words, and I would like her to master those words at this point. 

[lorisuewho]

I have seen it...It doesn't appeal to me as much, but I am having a hard time putting my finger on exactly why.  I think if DS7 were a bit more solid on the material in Essentials, it might make more sense.  At the moment it seems a bit "random" in terms of the words covered, but maybe I haven't studied it enough to see the rhyme and reason to it.  I like the "Dictation Resource Book" better for DD because it specifically covers 1000 most commonly used words, and I would like her to master those words at this point.

I've heard good things about the Dictation Resource Book. I think you should go for what appeals to you.

[wehave8]

I almost wondered yesterday if I should sell my LOE and just do WRTR again. But I was re-reading a bunch of older LOE posts and was reminded again that I will appreciate the daily lesson plans when life with 8 children (even though we only have 3 left at home) and 17 (almost 18) grandchildren gets crazy!!  WRTR seems so basic and easy, but I know when I open it up after a late night of bookkeeping for dh's business and try to remember all the daily/weekly teaching aspects I need to implement (even though I found this [#92] post.  :) ), I will find myself shelving it.  Really hoping for a great year with LOE!!

[wehave8]

I have seen it...It doesn't appeal to me as much, but I am having a hard time putting my finger on exactly why.  I think if DS7 were a bit more solid on the material in Essentials, it might make more sense.  At the moment it seems a bit "random" in terms of the words covered, but maybe I haven't studied it enough to see the rhyme and reason to it.  I like the "Dictation Resource Book" better for DD because it specifically covers 1000 most commonly used words, and I would like her to master those words at this point. 

 

Do you know where I could see samples of DRB?  RR has 1 but it is only of a letter format.  :(

 

Pam

[lorisuewho]

Do you know where I could see samples of DRB?  RR has 1 but it is only of a letter format.   :(

 

Pam

http://www.susancanthony.com/bk/db.html

on the brown side bar you can click on samples

[Roadrunner]

LOE wasn't the best got for us. We liked that it's rule based and easy to use, but I didn't like dowelling lists. The lists in the Esseantials were too easy, shield the advanced lists had many words we didn't care for at this age. We also disliked the grammar instruction.

[Targhee]

One book for all spelling.

 

 

The grammar and other activities are great for up to 3rd grade, and easy enough to skip if not. The book in general is easy to accelerate or slow down and enrich. Kids like the games. I wish we had found it years ago.