How do you credit AoPS courses?

[EKS]

Forgive me if this has been asked before.  I never seem to have any luck searching on here anymore.

 

Anyway, if your child has completed AoPS books or taken AoPS classes, how have you granted credit?  What have you called the courses?  I'm particularly interested in what you did for Intro to Algebra and Intermediate Algebra as well as how much credit you granted for the Number Theory and Counting and Probability books.

 

Thanks!

 

[Jen in NY]

Since my kids spent quite a bit of time on these courses... a couple of hours a day at least, plus time on the message boards and Alcumus, I granted 1 credit for all the classes except C&P and Number Theory. For those, since they were only 12 weeks, I granted .5 credit each.

 

Subjective? Maybe...... YMMV. : )

[Jenny in Florida]

The only AoPS experience I have is that my son worked through the Intro to Counting and Probability book last year. I combined that with a bunch of resources on other subjects and rolled the whole thing into a one-credit course we called "Topics in Discrete Math." I listed the AoPS on the course description as one of the texts, along with all of the other materials.

[regentrude]

I have given one credit for algebra 1 for the entire Intro to Algebra book, even though this contains some algebra 2 material. Both my kids worked through the book prior to 9th grade, so I'll just note that on the transcript; the credit won't be counted anyway.

 

I would feel it entirely justified to give one credit solely for chapters 1 through 13 for algebra 1; it covers the standard material of a traditional algebra 1 course in more depth with harder problems. I would then probably count part of the Intermediate Algebra togetehr with the second half of Intro as algebra 2 course, and lump the rest of Intermediate in with the precalculus credit. I would not give three algebra credits, even though the amount of material and time spent might justify that; this just raises unnecessary questions about possible padding.

 

I have given one credit each for Geometry, Intermediate algebra (called it algebra 2), Precalculus, and calculus.

I would give half a credit each for C&P and NT; however, since DS worked through C&P in 7th grade, I will most likely not put it on his transcript at all.

I am copying the course descriptions from the publisher's website.

[Julie of KY]

I'm giving a credit for Algebra 3 for the Int. Algebra text, but it will be the only algebra credit on the high school transcript unless we do linear algebra.

I'd give 1/2 credit for each of the intro to number theory books and intro to counting and prob.

 

My son will have a full number theory credit - 0.5 for the intro text, and 0.5 for the int. online course, plus a number or extra number theory things.

 

I will give a short course description based on the online description of the AoPS classes.

[Caroline]

I'm giving a credit for Algebra 3 for the Int. Algebra text, but it will be the only algebra credit on the high school transcript unless we do linear algebra.

I'd give 1/2 credit for each of the intro to number theory books and intro to counting and prob.

 

My son will have a full number theory credit - 0.5 for the intro text, and 0.5 for the int. online course, plus a number or extra number theory things.

 

I will give a short course description based on the online description of the AoPS classes.

You might want to reconsider calling it Algebra 3. In most public high schools, Algebra 3 is a remedial course for students who were not ready for precalculus.

[8filltheheart]

You might want to reconsider calling it Algebra 3. In most public high schools, Algebra 3 is a remedial course for students who were not ready for precalculus.

Alg 3 is what AoPS calls the course. Especially if taken online via their school, I would be reluctant to give it a different course title. I would include AoPS on the transcript and make sure to include their philosophy in the school profile.

 

Fwiw, I also give 1 credit per course except for the C&P type classes.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Algebra 1 for AoPS Intro to Algebra Text chapters 1-12 and Dolciani Algebra 1 (1965) chapters 9-13.  1 credit done in 7th or 8th grade. 

 

Algebra 2 for AoPS Intro to Algebra Text chapters 13-22.  1 credit done in 8th or 9th grade. 

 

I will include credit for work done in 7th or 8th grade on transcript and in gpa (as is standard with PS in my area.)

 

I've cross referenced AoPS with my state standards (which cover similar topics in less depth but add statistics) and with the check lists for algebra from CTY. (Links under Course Content.  FWIW, here are some guidelines for requesting credit CTY individually paced math courses from traditional schools (chart begins on page 6).  CTY is different from AoPS, but has some similarities.   Might give some ideas on how to grant credit (for example, a 1/2 credit math elective for number theory).

 

[snowbeltmom]

Alg 3 is what AoPS calls the course. Especially if taken online via their school, I would be reluctant to give it a different course title. I would include AoPS on the transcript and make sure to include their philosophy in the school profile.

 

Fwiw, I also give 1 credit per course except for the C&P type classes.

:iagree:

 

I have also used Alg 3 as a course description title.  I also awarded 1/2 credit for both C&P and Number Theory.  

[Kathy in Richmond]

My kids took many of the AoPS online classes, most of which were 12 weeks long.

 

My guideline was to grant 1/2 credit per 12 week class, which would include courses like Intro to Number Theory or Intro to Counting & Probability.

 

On the transcript, I used AoPS course titles. Next to the column of classes, I had another column where I designated outside providers, so I put "AoPS" there. On my School Profile, I had links to the websites of all outside providers, and my course descriptions gave a brief description of content covered, based on AoPS's own course descriptions.

[Crimson Wife]

Just listening in here, this is all helpful.

 

If my kids wind up using AOPS, I'll be listing them as "Honors" classes. "Honors Algebra 3" has a different ring to it than just plain Algebra 3 IMHO.

[Julie of KY]

I won't be calling it Honors because this implies that my other classes that I might not call honors aren't as rigorous. I'm not sure it really matters either way.

[Jen in NY]

I won't be calling it Honors because this implies that my other classes that I might not call honors aren't as rigorous. I'm not sure it really matters either way.

I agree with this, I think. On the one hand, if you call it honors and you have Standardized test scores and competitive math exam scores to back it up, you probably don't need the honors designation to begin with --- it will be something like, "You had me at 790." LOL. On the other hand, if you label it honors and have only mediocre test scores, colleges might wonder what's up.

[8filltheheart]

I won't be calling it Honors because this implies that my other classes that I might not call honors aren't as rigorous. I'm not sure it really matters either way.

 

 

I agree with this, I think. On the one hand, if you call it honors and you have Standardized test scores and competitive math exam scores to back it up, you probably don't need the honors designation to begin with --- it will be something like, "You had me at 790." LOL. On the other hand, if you label it honors and have only mediocre test scores, colleges might wonder what's up.

 

I emailed AoPS about this b/c I was torn as to what to do.    The response was essentially that it was not a problem to label them honors.   I chose not to, however.   I decided that it would be better to discuss it via the school profile.

 

I will say that I do NOT know if this is the correct decision or not.   I am taking ds on a few couple trips when he gets back from camp.   While on the campuses, I am going to ask about how their scholarships work.   (that is my only concern.....will the non-labeling of honors impact his eligibility for scholarships if they are based on a numbers game.)

[HodgesSchool]

If you have any concerns about calling it Alg 3, you could also use "Intermediate Algebra" since that is the name of the book.  (We're currently trying to figure out the same issues.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If you have any concerns about calling it Alg 3, you could also use "Intermediate Algebra" since that is the name of the book.  (We're currently trying to figure out the same issues.)

What about something like: Intermediate Algebra with Pre-calculus for the Algebra 3/Intermediate Algebra book and Advanced Topics in Pre-calculus with Trig for the Pre-calc book?

 

I think the Algebra 3 class and Intermediate Algebra is intended as a book that not every student does.  That or there really is an expectation that students will cover pre-calc using both the Intermediate Algebra and the Pre-calculus books.  Seems like a strong course description really is essential here.

 

And I love the line "You had me at 790."  I can only dream.

[regentrude]

I think the Algebra 3 class and Intermediate Algebra is intended as a book that not every student does.

Why?

Any student who wants to continue in math needs to complete this material; aside from the review chapters 1-4, it is NOT just a deeper repeat of the Intro to Algebra text. Polynomials for example constitute a major part of the text (and btw are a main focus of the SAT Math II subject test)

The precalculus text does not double anything from the Intermediate Algebra book.

 

 

That or there really is an expectation that students will cover pre-calc using both the Intermediate Algebra and the Pre-calculus books.  Seems like a strong course description really is essential here.

In the end, I do not think it matters how one breaks the material into chunks for the transcript. There will be "algebra 2", there will be "precalculus" - the fact that AoPS distributes the topics between their books slightly differently than traditional curricula is pretty irrelevant. I do not think anybody at college cares whether books have been used overlapping or not- all that mattesr is that the subjects have been studied.

 

 

What about something like: Intermediate Algebra with Pre-calculus for the Algebra 3/Intermediate Algebra book and Advanced Topics in Pre-calculus with Trig for the Pre-calc book?

That sounds extremely clumsy and confusing to me.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Why?

Any student who wants to continue in math needs to complete this material; aside from the review chapters 1-4, it is NOT just a deeper repeat of the Intro to Algebra text. Polynomials for example constitute a major part of the text (and btw are a main focus of the SAT Math II subject test)

The precalculus text does not double anything from the Intermediate Algebra book.

 

 

In the end, I do not think it matters how one breaks the material into chunks for the transcript. There will be "algebra 2", there will be "precalculus" - the fact that AoPS distributes the topics between their books slightly differently than traditional curricula is pretty irrelevant. I do not think anybody at college cares whether books have been used overlapping or not- all that mattesr is that the subjects have been studied.

 

 

That sounds extremely clumsy and confusing to me.

 

Thanks, I was going primarily off of the descriptions of the Algebra 3 and Pre-Calculus classes and trying to see what sequence AoPS envisioned students having.  I'm still not sure if their main model is that their classes replace standard high school math courses or are taken in addition, before/during/after completing a similar class in a traditional classroom model.

 

I'll have to do is take the table of contents and compare it to some pre-calc scope and sequence lists.  The reference to SAT II Math 2 helps.

 

How long does it typically take to complete the Intermediate Algebra and Pre-Calculus books?  My concern is that I will guide my kids to devoting so much effort to deep understanding of the algebra and pre-calculus that they will never complete a course in high school that gets the calculus label.  That would be a major strike against them for service academy applications and ROTC scholarship applications.  So one part of my heart thinks that they need to have the solid grounding in algebra in order to really succeed in calculus and calculus dependent college work.  The other part of my heart says that unless they have the calculus label, it won't matter, because they won't be accepted to the schools they are aiming for.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm having trouble finding good scope and sequence lists for pre calculus. Anyone have a favorite?

[regentrude]

How long does it typically take to complete the Intermediate Algebra and Pre-Calculus books?

The Intermediate Algebra and Precalculus books are not as heavy as the Intro to Algebra; each can easily be completed in a single school year. My DD doubled up on math and did Intermediate algebra concurrently with Geometry in one year, and then precalculus during the next.

 

The Precalculus text contains some material that is not typically taught to this much depth: vectors and matrices in three dimensions. The book spends three chapters on 3-d vector geometry, and you can shorten this. Many of my college students have not studied this material until they take multi variable calculus at the university.

The most important material in the precalculus text is the extensive treatment of trigonometry, inlcuding complex trig - chapters 2 through 8. This, and two dimensional vectors and matrices (ch.9+10) are the core material that I would definitely cover.

 

Intermediate Algebra contains a few chapters at the end that are mainly of interest for students who are into competitions (I do not have the book with me right now, but I seem to remember the introduction even spelling this out). You could omit chapters 18-20 without jeopardizing your student's understanding of subsequent math.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Sebastian,

 

Here's an outline of what I found (in post #5) when I compared the AoPS Int Alg and Precalculus texts to typical high school coverage. It might help if you want to stick with AoPS and still reach calculus by senior year.

 

HTH :001_smile:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The Intermediate Algebra and Precalculus books are not as heavy as the Intro to Algebra; each can easily be completed in a single school year. My DD doubled up on math and did Intermediate algebra concurrently with Geometry in one year, and then precalculus during the next.

 

The Precalculus text contains some material that is not typically taught to this much depth: vectors and matrices in three dimensions. The book spends three chapters on 3-d vector geometry, and you can shorten this. Many of my college students have not studied this material until they take multi variable calculus at the university.

The most important material in the precalculus text is the extensive treatment of trigonometry, inlcuding complex trig - chapters 2 through 8. This, and two dimensional vectors and matrices (ch.9+10) are the core material that I would definitely cover.

 

Intermediate Algebra contains a few chapters at the end that are mainly of interest for students who are into competitions (I do not have the book with me right now, but I seem to remember the introduction even spelling this out). You could omit chapters 18-20 without jeopardizing your student's understanding of subsequent math.

Thanks for the details.  I did find a list of Pre-Calculus with Trig topics in a course description for the CTY math classes.  This seems to use Thinkwell.

 

I'll have to compare it with the tables of contents for AoPS.

 

On the other hand, this may end up being something I just put to the side for a while.  Let them do geometry while I figure things out.  There are days when it feels like high school is a race to fit 20 pounds of stuff into a 5 pound bag.

[regentrude]

There are days when it feels like high school is a race to fit 20 pounds of stuff into a 5 pound bag.

I hear you! The way we have been dealing with this feeling is to prioritize and to put a very strong focus on the core subjects (math, science, english, history, foreign language) to get a solid grounding, and we limit "misc electives" to fit in between the nooks and crannies.

We give math top priority, because any gaps in math will be extremely difficult to remedy in retrospect, whereas, say, a hole in literature coverage does not jeopardize subsequent understanding and can be fixed later. YMMV.

[EKS]

Thanks all! 

 

If I were doing this completely on my own as a homeschooler, I'd probably give Algebra I and II credit for Intro to Algebra and part of Intermediate Algebra and then a credit for Precalculus for the rest of Intermediate Algebra and the Precalculus book.  For the other texts (CP, NT), I'd give 0.5 credits.

 

But I'm potentially dealing with having a b&m school grant credit for it all, which makes having the parts of books count for various things confusing for school officials who are used to the one book = one class model.  Complicating things more, my son has already gotten an Algebra I credit (using the Larson book) with this school.  Because I'm so unhappy with the Algebra I education he received, I'd want to start at the beginning of Intro to Algebra.

 

Of course, I haven't even informed them that he will be doing Jacobs' Geometry with Derek Owens instead of with them and their terrible Larson text.  Maybe I should take things one step at a time!

 

Thanks again!

[Crimson Wife]

I won't be calling it Honors because this implies that my other classes that I might not call honors aren't as rigorous. I'm not sure it really matters either way.

Any course that is more rigorous than the standard college prep sequence at our zoned high school will be labeled as an honors course on my kids' transcripts. Hopefully that will be most if not all of them but we're not there yet.

 

If we wind up enrolling in Kolbe (a strong possibility), we will meet or exceed their Honors course plans requirements. AOPS is at least as rigorous as Kolbe's honors math sequence (Jacobs, Foerster) so I would have no problem giving the honors label.