WWYD-Another neighborhood kids situation

[lea1]

We live two doors down from a boy (boy1) that my two sons like to play with. He has come to our house and asked to play with them many times also and he has always seemed like a nice enough kid. I have talked to his mom once or twice but don't know her very well.

 

My sons were at boy1's house playing (outdoors) when another neighborhood boy (boy2) showed up. Boy2 lives across the street and two houses in to a cul-de-sac from us and boy1. Boy2 invited boy1 to come over to his house to play. One of my sons asked if they could go too and boy2 said no and something snarky about already having enough friends. So boy1 went with boy2 and my sons came home disappointed.

 

A little history here. Boy1 and boy2 have lived here longer than we have and have known each other for a while. They also go to the same school but are a year apart. Boy2 was actually the first boy my sons met when we moved here a little over 2 years ago and they enjoyed playing together for about the first year. It didn't take long before boy2 decided he didn't want to come over to our house to play because they couldn't play any electronic games (this was during the winter when it was too yuck to play outdoors). My sons would still go to boy2's house sometimes and play outside and sometimes inside. On one pretty day, my sons saw boy2 sitting outside on his swingset so they went to see if he wanted to play. I could see them over there talking to him and then I saw boy2 go inside his house and my sons were still standing around in his backyard. So I called them home and asked what was going on. Boy2 had told them that he was going to go over and see if boy1 could play (this was before my sons had met boy1). If boy1 could not play, he (boy2) would come back and play with them. They actually didn't get that this behavior was not very nice until I explained it to them. They didn't end up going back over to find out if boy2 came back or not. I think they may have played with boy2 once or twice since then, maybe. But then a few weeks ago they went over and were playing basketball on boy2's driveway with a group of boys all about the same age (boy1 was there also). At some point boy2 told my sons to go home. I'm not sure what happened but he said something to them about only wanting to play with his real friends. They were really disappointed this time too.

 

When boy2 started this thing about treating my sons badly, I told them maybe they should not play with him anymore. Now I am thinking maybe that was a mistake and maybe I should have told them to tell him that he hurt their feelings when he ran off to see if boy1 could play ("and if he can't, I'll come back and play with you").

 

I have told them that boy1 may not have known that it was not nice to run off to play at boy2's house, when they (my sons) were over at his (boy1's) house playing and my sons were not included, so they should tell boy1 that it hurt their feelings.

 

What do you think? I have no experience with handling this type of thing. How would you handle it? I have thought about talking to boy2's mom to see if she knows why her son does not want to play with my two now. I am interested in hearing how boy1 will respond when my sons tell him that he hurt their feelings. He seems like a nice kid, although one of my sons got real upset with him about a week ago because he kept hitting my son in his glasses with the basketball on purpose, even though my son asked him to stop. He thought it was funny but my son told him it hurt and wasn't funny and he wouldn't stop. Other than that, my sons have always gotten along really well with boy1.

 

So, I am open to advice here. Would you stay out of it and let them handle it, give advice, go talk to other mom's, or what? The boys are all around 7 years old.

[JustEm]

i certainly wouldn't talk to boy2's mom about it. Boy2 doesn't like playing with your boys. It sucks for your boys but is not his mother's issue. If someone came to me asking why my son didn't want o play with theirs my response would be "it doesn't matter why. that's between my son and your son." Thats simply because I don't think there is anything wrong with some kids not liking others. Now if you went to her to specifically address the way he's treating you boys when they are around that's different.

 

As for boy 1, he may honestly not realize he was being rude. In my experience kids tend to just think "yeah, I would rather do that" and then they do without realizing how it effects others. I would suggest you tell your boys to handle it how they want. If they think its necessary to point out that what he did was hurtful and rude then tell them to. But don't push them to do it if they don't particularly care

[Tess in the Burbs]

Honestly, if they are all about 7 they don't get it. Until it happens to them they won't get it and talking to the kid or the mom isn't going to help. Kid1 was rude but unless your own kids point out how rude it is he probably doesn't know. I would explain to my own kids and encourage them to speak up when kids are doing this mean game to them. The Kid1 will see it and change behavior or not. There isn't any way to make them be nice. Leave it to the kids to work it out. But yeah, your kids pretty much are going to be hurt. Find some new friends.

[lea1]

i certainly wouldn't talk to boy2's mom about it. Boy2 doesn't like playing with your boys. It sucks for your boys but is not his mother's issue. If someone came to me asking why my son didn't want o play with theirs my response would be "it doesn't matter why. that's between my son and your son." Thats simply because I don't think there is anything wrong with some kids not liking others. Now if you went to her to specifically address the way he's treating you boys when they are around that's different.

 

When I questioned talking to boy2's mom, I was thinking more in terms of finding out if one of my sons has said or done something hurtful or mean to her son. I know it is not her issue and I don't expect someone to make their child play with someone they just don't like.

 

As for boy 1, he may honestly not realize he was being rude. In my experience kids tend to just think "yeah, I would rather do that" and then they do without realizing how it effects others. I would suggest you tell your boys to handle it how they want. If they think its necessary to point out that what he did was hurtful and rude then tell them to. But don't push them to do it if they don't particularly care

 

This is what I explained to my sons, that boy1 may not have known that he was being rude and they can let him know how they felt when he left with boy2.

[lea1]

Honestly, if they are all about 7 they don't get it. Until it happens to them they won't get it and talking to the kid or the mom isn't going to help. Kid1 was rude but unless your own kids point out how rude it is he probably doesn't know. I would explain to my own kids and encourage them to speak up when kids are doing this mean game to them. The Kid1 will see it and change behavior or not. There isn't any way to make them be nice. Leave it to the kids to work it out. But yeah, your kids pretty much are going to be hurt. Find some new friends.

 

I think you are right and, at their age, they don't get it until it happens to them. My sons do have some friends that they enjoy playing with. I explained to them they will have to decide if they want to continue to play with boy1, if they explain to him how it made them feel and he continues to do it. I had already explained to them that we can't make someone be nice. They enjoy playing with him and are trying to figure it all out.

[lea1]

I'd arm your kids with a response along the lines of 'gee, kid, I wasn't asking if you wanna get married or be my very bestus friend. You wanna play bball for an hour, come over. See ya". Both kids are signalling that they aren't interested. And kid1 hitting a kid with glasses with a bball for funnies is an aggressive nonverbal message of "I don't want to play with you." I would not encourage a boy to get into any conversations about hurt feelings with a physical aggressive playmate. I'd move on to other possibilities.

 

Well, it is just kind of strange and unexpected because they have been playing together, on and off, for about a year now and, at times, have seemed like best buddies. Nothing like this has every happened before. When my son came home all upset about the basketball/glasses incident, I was really quite surprised that this kid would do something like that.

 

Funny enough, a 3 YO boy moved in next door to us recently and my sons really enjoy playing with him a lot. His mom loves them because they are so sweet with her son and she had to deal with an aggressive playmate situation where they lived before.

[*Lulu*]

*sigh*

 

I always come to these threads hoping I can answer, "grab a taser!"

 

Alas, no, not a taser worthy situation.

 

Situations like this stink, but crop up whether 7 or 37 so it is best to just suck it up and have the, "not everyone is your friend and that is okay" talk. I wouldn't tell your kids to never play with the other boys again, but I would discourage them from seeking them out. Maybe boy number one will come around. I wouldn't hold my breath though; our experience has been that PS school aquantance bonds outweigh neighborhood aquantance bonds.

 

It hurts to see kids around you playing and know you are not included. The only thing that keeps me from feeling homeschooling is hurting my kids in this area is the intimate knowledge that you can be the kid on the outside and a PS school student at the same time.

[lea1]

*sigh*

 

I always come to these threads hoping I can answer, "grab a taser!"

 

Alas, no, not a taser worthy situation.

 

Situations like this stink, but crop up whether 7 or 37 so it is best to just suck it up and have the, "not everyone is your friend and that is okay" talk. I wouldn't tell your kids to never play with the other boys again, but I would discourage them from seeking them out. Maybe boy number one will come around. I wouldn't hold my breath though; our experience has been that PS school aquantance bonds outweigh neighborhood aquantance bonds.

 

It hurts to see kids around you playing and know you are not included. The only thing that keeps me from feeling homeschooling is hurting my kids in this area is the intimate knowledge that you can be the kid on the outside and a PS school student at the same time.

 

That's funny. I'm sure every time I open one of these threads now I will be wondering if it is taser worthy.

 

I think you are right about the "not everyone is your friend and that's okay" talk. I will definitely do that. I think they will likely end up playing with boy1 again but probably not boy2. I have wondered if it is a homeschool vs PS thing but you bring up a good point. I guess it is just all a part of growing up, learning how to get along with people and when to move on.

[NorthwestMom]

Quick and dirty thoughts:

 

1. If you are the only parent banning electronics, especially for boys, you are setting yourself up for your kids to be considered different and your house to be "boring". The only chance you have to counteract that is to have something awesome and special that no one else has but the other boys want, like a zip line or a trampoline. I know it's infuriating to hear this but it is true. :grouphug:

2. I'd invite Boy 1 for special playdates with you partially supervising. Sleepovers might be good for this. That will improve and increase the bond the boys have. If you hear anything you could do some social skills teaching about not leaving people out, etc.

 

3.Now is the time to get to know the moms on the street a little better. It will only help you in the future when the stakes get higher. 7yo social problems are waaaay easier to solve than 14yo social problems. Invite everyone over for a BBQ, or make a habit of sitting in a lawn chair in the front yard while the kids play and try to make small talk if you can catch the parents.

 

4. Good luck!

[Harriet Vane]

At this age, they don't get it. They don't always understand the rudeness.

 

I would probably go overboard inviting the boys to all come play and making it really cool when they come. Bake some cookies or buy several water guns or nerf guns (or both). Teach them Kick the Can or some such. Use this summer as an opportunity to help the boys enjoy each other. If you make it easy, welcoming, friendly, and fun, they may find their way to a happy circle of friendship.

 

While you're at it, invite the parents over for a backyard barbecue or dessert. Keep it fun and casual and don't bring up any issues. Just be welcoming, friendly, and encouraging.

[QuirkyKapers]

I read this good book when I was first trying to work out the neighborhood stuff called, "The Unwritten Rules of Friendship: Simple strategies to help your make friends" by Natalie Madorsky Elman, Ph.d.

 

This happens here too. The kids prefer to play with child a, but child a isn't available so they come to play with child b. If they happen to see child a around, they promptly leave. To be honest, my kids really don't care if that happens. But, I tell you this to let you know unfortuntely, it is fairly normal I think.

 

 

You can't control other children's behavior. but you can set boundaries about play at your house and have house rules. The best thing to do is teach your children how to respond. I would encourage other friendships since they are being excluded. I would talk about what makes good friendships, what is it about those boys that they like? How does it compare to their other friendships? As you start having other friendships in the neighborhood and outside of the neighborhood, it will lesson the impact of excluding behavior from some kids. It is a fact that not everyone will get along with each other or click. It happens with adults. I also think it is helpful to talk about how friendships change, new friends are made, some friends aren't as good of friends as they used to be, interests change etc. This also happens with adults.

 

I wouldn't have your boys talk about hurt feelings, in my experience, the other kids won't give a flying flip. Again, what is the control your children have in the situation? Help them find it. Help them find their assesertive voice so they don't feel like they are being walked all over. It might mean having them tell those kids when they come over, I don't want to play because x,y z happens. I always told my son, you can always leave when things go bad. You don't owe them an explanation, you can just say, I'm done, bye. The kids here love to try and get a reason so they can argue. I told my kids, you don't owe more than I am leaving, they want an answer so they can argue. I tell them to just repeat the answer already given. As they are walking away. After answering several times, just keep walking without talking (This is called broken record technique when you just repeat the same answer you gave. You can search it online). If the play is at your home, they can come inside. They can also tell children to leave. If you are there, you can help be a back up. At first, I would have to model leaving by telling my kids, hey time to come in. I would encourage them to come in and not have to be prompted.

 

I also wouldn't talk to the mom, unless there is bullying and you have intervened and the behavior won't stop. If this is happening at other people's homes, you aren't going to have much say in what is happening other than to restrict playing with some children to your own home. If play is at your house and bullying behavior is happening, you can address it. Your house. Your rules. You don't like it. Leave. If it is happening a lot, swearing, hitting and after having tried addressing it at your home, than I would talk to the mom. However, if you have no relationship, negative feedback will probably go over like a lead balloon. Again, as your children get older, hopefully they find their voice and can feel free to tell the kids to leave.

 

I feel for you. One thing I have learned is that there are good times in the neighborhood and things can be great for awhile but there inevitably, there will be bullying or swearing and I have to restate the rules and take a break. When it starts to get bad, it tis time to briefly change the activities we are doing. Basically, a time out from the neighborhood. When I am ready to deal again, than I have kids over. Usaully, after having had a break, the kids all play much better again. I have also learned that about 45 minutes to an hour is all my kids can usually play in some situations before it all goes downhill.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: Obviously these are things that I have learned from behavior in my neighborhood and they might not work in your situation but hopefully it will at least spur some creative thinking so the situation doesn't seem so powerless.

[lea1]

 

Boys change as they age. You do need to correct that 'came home all upset'...as that is viewed as a 'baby' response. He needs to practice some responses that will earn him some respect on the scene.

 

I would highly encourage you to help him deveop a talent that his age group will respect, as that is a helpful 'in'.

 

On the parenting shelf at your public library may be the author Fred Frankel, who has some helpful advice with forming friendships, keeping friendships, and joining groups.

 

This was probably just a bad choice of words on my part. He was actually angry-upset when he came home, not cry-baby-upset. He is actually great at pretty much any sport he tries and that is one reason that he and boy1 had hit it off so well, because they both really love sports.

 

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll have to check that out.

[lea1]

Quick and dirty thoughts:

 

1. If you are the only parent banning electronics, especially for boys, you are setting yourself up for your kids to be considered different and your house to be "boring". The only chance you have to counteract that is to have something awesome and special that no one else has but the other boys want, like a zip line or a trampoline. I know it's infuriating to hear this but it is true. :grouphug:

2. I'd invite Boy 1 for special playdates with you partially supervising. Sleepovers might be good for this. That will improve and increase the bond the boys have. If you hear anything you could do some social skills teaching about not leaving people out, etc.

 

3.Now is the time to get to know the moms on the street a little better. It will only help you in the future when the stakes get higher. 7yo social problems are waaaay easier to solve than 14yo social problems. Invite everyone over for a BBQ, or make a habit of sitting in a lawn chair in the front yard while the kids play and try to make small talk if you can catch the parents.

 

4. Good luck!

 

Thanks for your thoughts. We actually don't ban all electronics now but we only have a Kindle with games and we limit the amount of time on it. When they first started playing with boy2, I would not let them play when he was here because I really wanted them to spend time really playing together, not huddled around staring at a screen. Now, when they have someone over, i will sometimes let them play for a short time and they seem to be pretty happy with that. Also, the day this happened, when they were over at boy1's house, they had our Kindle over there with them so he could play one of their games.

 

I know you are right that we have to do something to make this a fun house to hang out at if we want others to want to come over. My husband is in the process of building a very nice tree house that will eventually have a long zip line across the yard. That may help a little.

 

We definitely need to make more of an effort to get to know some of the other parents around the neighborhood. I will have to put that on my to-do list. I'm an introvert at heart so it is something I have to make myself do.

[Susan in TN]

Kids can be fickle. There are strangely fickle kids in our neighborhood who go through periods of being friends then ignoring for several months, then showing up at the door again once or twice, and then they're gone. I don't know that there's anything to do about it except hand out flyers for an anti-fickleness campaign.

 

 

[lea1]

At this age, they don't get it. They don't always understand the rudeness.

 

I would probably go overboard inviting the boys to all come play and making it really cool when they come. Bake some cookies or buy several water guns or nerf guns (or both). Teach them Kick the Can or some such. Use this summer as an opportunity to help the boys enjoy each other. If you make it easy, welcoming, friendly, and fun, they may find their way to a happy circle of friendship.

 

While you're at it, invite the parents over for a backyard barbecue or dessert. Keep it fun and casual and don't bring up any issues. Just be welcoming, friendly, and encouraging.

 

I definitely need to work on this! Thanks for the ideas.

[lea1]

I read this good book when I was first trying to work out the neighborhood stuff called, "The Unwritten Rules of Friendship: Simple strategies to help your make friends" by Natalie Madorsky Elman, Ph.d.

 

This happens here too. The kids prefer to play with child a, but child a isn't available so they come to play with child b. If they happen to see child a around, they promptly leave. To be honest, my kids really don't care if that happens. But, I tell you this to let you know unfortuntely, it is fairly normal I think.

 

 

You can't control other children's behavior. but you can set boundaries about play at your house and have house rules. The best thing to do is teach your children how to respond. I would encourage other friendships since they are being excluded. I would talk about what makes good friendships, what is it about those boys that they like? How does it compare to their other friendships? As you start having other friendships in the neighborhood and outside of the neighborhood, it will lesson the impact of excluding behavior from some kids. It is a fact that not everyone will get along with each other or click. It happens with adults. I also think it is helpful to talk about how friendships change, new friends are made, some friends aren't as good of friends as they used to be, interests change etc. This also happens with adults.

 

I wouldn't have your boys talk about hurt feelings, in my experience, the other kids won't give a flying flip. Again, what is the control your children have in the situation? Help them find it. Help them find their assesertive voice so they don't feel like they are being walked all over. It might mean having them tell those kids when they come over, I don't want to play because x,y z happens. I always told my son, you can always leave when things go bad. You don't owe them an explanation, you can just say, I'm done, bye. The kids here love to try and get a reason so they can argue. I told my kids, you don't owe more than I am leaving, they want an answer so they can argue. I tell them to just repeat the answer already given. As they are walking away. After answering several times, just keep walking without talking (This is called broken record technique when you just repeat the same answer you gave. You can search it online). If the play is at your home, they can come inside. They can also tell children to leave. If you are there, you can help be a back up. At first, I would have to model leaving by telling my kids, hey time to come in. I would encourage them to come in and not have to be prompted.

 

I also wouldn't talk to the mom, unless there is bullying and you have intervened and the behavior won't stop. If this is happening at other people's homes, you aren't going to have much say in what is happening other than to restrict playing with some children to your own home. If play is at your house and bullying behavior is happening, you can address it. Your house. Your rules. You don't like it. Leave. If it is happening a lot, swearing, hitting and after having tried addressing it at your home, than I would talk to the mom. However, if you have no relationship, negative feedback will probably go over like a lead balloon. Again, as your children get older, hopefully they find their voice and can feel free to tell the kids to leave.

 

I feel for you. One thing I have learned is that there are good times in the neighborhood and things can be great for awhile but there inevitably, there will be bullying or swearing and I have to restate the rules and take a break. When it starts to get bad, it tis time to briefly change the activities we are doing. Basically, a time out from the neighborhood. When I am ready to deal again, than I have kids over. Usaully, after having had a break, the kids all play much better again. I have also learned that about 45 minutes to an hour is all my kids can usually play in some situations before it all goes downhill.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: Obviously these are things that I have learned from behavior in my neighborhood and they might not work in your situation but hopefully it will at least spur some creative thinking so the situation doesn't seem so powerless.

 

This is all good information and will help me better set expectations (mine and my sons'). Thanks for sharing your experiences and how you have handled them. This is definitely new territory for me.

[lea1]

Kids can be fickle. There are strangely fickle kids in our neighborhood who go through periods of being friends then ignoring for several months, then showing up at the door again once or twice, and then they're gone. I don't know that there's anything to do about it except hand out flyers for an anti-fickleness campaign.

 

I think I'll start making up some fliers:). I don't remember being like this when I was a kid but maybe I was and just don't remember.

[lea1]

 

It doesn't matter if he's angry-upset or cry-baby-upset. It matters that he lost his cool.

He needs to practice so he doesn't lose his cool, and takes control of the situation, or retreats with respect.

 

 

I saw him angry after he was already home. I don't know how he was when he was still over at boy1's house, although I think most kids (especially 7 year olds) would likely be a bit annoyed or angry if someone kept hitting them in the glasses with a basketball.

 

I don't think the basketball/glasses event was really a significant event overall. They didn't play together for a few days and then they were both ready to play together again after that. It was in the past and they had both forgotten it.

 

The question I was asking about was more related to the situation where they were playing at another child's house when that child was invited to go to another neighbor's and just took off and left them. I think I have gotten some pretty good feedback here on that issue.

[katilac]

As a parent of two boys, I can tell you that it is a significant event that one boy chose to do the bball/glasses thing and that the response was losing cool rather than controlling the situation. I would encourage you to page Spycar for advice here; my hubby took over for me when I saw kids attempting that kind of garbage and mine needed an appropriate response for on the school grounds. This is a big age for alpha male dominance.

 

Hmm, I don't know that I agree, mostly b/c it doesn't actually sound like he lost his cool. It doesn't sound like he cried, or said that he was going to tell, or so on. I don't have boys, but I'm married to one, I have 5 nephews, tons of neighborhood boys, and I do a lot of activities with teen boys.

 

I have seen plenty of boys get mad over less, and they weren't knocked down the hierarchy or kicked out of the group, lol. A boy who routinely gets mad over everything, or over mild roughhousing like pushing, yeah, sure. But a basketball to the face over and over again? They get mad, and no one is surprised.

[briansmama]

We have a neighborhood rule that when the kids are playing outside all are included, but if we have a playdate scheduled the kids are allowed to come in together without being required to invite all the others too.

 

In this case, I would talk with your kids about how being excluded hurts feelings and how your family can set a better example for the neighborhood. It sounds like Boy 2 wasn't being very nice.

[Little Nyssa]

Heigh-ho, can you explain what you mean about controlling the situation? Thanks!

[G5052]

Situations like this stink, but crop up whether 7 or 37 so it is best to just suck it up and have the, "not everyone is your friend and that is okay" talk. I wouldn't tell your kids to never play with the other boys again, but I would discourage them from seeking them out. Maybe boy number one will come around. I wouldn't hold my breath though; our experience has been that PS school acquaintance bonds outweigh neighborhood acquaintance bonds.

 

It hurts to see kids around you playing and know you are not included. The only thing that keeps me from feeling homeschooling is hurting my kids in this area is the intimate knowledge that you can be the kid on the outside and a PS school student at the same time.

 

 

Mine are teens, but we went through this over and over with the neighbor kids. Up and down we went. So we talked about true friends versus circumstantial friends. Basically the neighborhood kids liked playing with mine in our yard because we had a lot to do, but then they never invited mine over and excluded them from birthday parties and such. There are people who will always love you and will immediately apologize if they hurt you, and there are people who will act like they care and then ignore you if suits their purposes. The drama bothered me of course, but we just rode it out, and tried to make sure they had time with kids who were true friends even if it meant driving them there. We also got more involved in local homeschool groups.

 

When middle school hit, the neighborhood kids ganged up on mine and decided that they were weird for being home schooled, and it got extremely ugly with taunts and even graffiti. And that was the end of that.