Choosing a science text?

[swimmermom3]

Ds will be doing chemistry at home for his sophomore year. I have the Chang text and the Zumdahl Introduction to Chemistry text, both of which are college-level. My plans are to use the Chang text along with Dr. Tang's syllabus. I know this is very demanding. I am reading the texts simultaneously to get a better feel for which one will suit my son, who reads deeply but not very quickly. I prefer the Chang text as being a bit less wordy, but it is more challenging and I would have to slow the pace down from the recommended syllabus. The other issue is that he is taking AP Lang from PA Homeschoolers and history from me which will involve using a college text, plus throw in a few great books. Zumdahl's covers the same information in two chapters that Chang covers in the first chapter. I have even thought of mixing them up, using the best text for the topic.

 

Any thoughts?

[Candid]

In the end you'll have to decide. I think factors I would look at would be his own track in terms of humanities vs. science. If humanities, I'd be inclined to use the easier text. Also, how hard the other two things you mention will be (and how about math???)

 

One thoroughly insane thing to consider is assign readings in Chang and problem sets in Zumdahl in attempt to get the best of both worlds.

 

We survived Chang and a boat load of other work this year, it can be done.

[swimmermom3]

In the end you'll have to decide. I think factors I would look at would be his own track in terms of humanities vs. science. If humanities, I'd be inclined to use the easier text. Also, how hard the other two things you mention will be (and how about math???)

 

One thoroughly insane thing to consider is assign readings in Chang and problem sets in Zumdahl in attempt to get the best of both worlds.

 

We survived Chang and a boat load of other work this year, it can be done.

 

Thanks for the heads-up about Chang and a heavy work-load. Ds will be taking AP Lang., AP European History, Spanish II, Chemistry, Religion and Philosophy, Medieval Great Books, and Adv. Algebra II. I have control over four of those classes and while the school calls the Algebra II class "advanced," I am not sure how much more work that will be. They just have a better text than the regular Algebra II courses.

 

STEM or language arts? Not a clue. He currently has an "A" in all the subjects. I have taught him for six years and I still don't know where he'll end up. He's not an avid reader, but he reads at a high level of comprehension and is a solid writer.

 

Why do you recommend the problem sets in Zumdahl? Although that would make my life easier as I have a solutions manual.

[regentrude]

Just a tip for you, since you already have two texts:

when you create your tests, you can use the worked out examples from the text your student is not using and put them on the exam. That way, you already have a fully worked out solution key, and you can be sure to test representative concepts.

[swimmermom3]

Just a tip for you, since you already have two texts:

when you create your tests, you can use the worked out examples from the text your student is not using and put them on the exam. That way, you already have a fully worked out solution key, and you can be sure to test representative concepts.

 

 

This is why YOU are the college professor. :D That is a great idea, thank you.

[regentrude]

This is why YOU are the college professor. :D That is a great idea, thank you.

 

Well, for my own subject that I teach at college, I am writing my own exams, LOL - because that's where I do have the expertise.

It's subjects like chemistry that are not my field where I use tricks like this ;-)

[Candid]

Why do you recommend the problem sets in Zumdahl? Although that would make my life easier as I have a solutions manual.

 

I'm no help I was going off what you said. If Chang is faster and harder paced I'd assume their questions are too. However, the other thing to do is to decrease some of the load in Chang. It is marked as a Honor's course.

[PeterPan]

Not that it's any of my business, cuz I sold my Z Intro stuff, but you might think about moving to Z's World. Intro doesn't actually cover all the topics that some hs texts do (comparing it to BJU for instance), but it covers it with dramatically more depth and difficulty (because of course it's a college text). Going straight into a college text isn't ideal anyway, and you're saying he's gonna get overloaded. So you could just go to a nice, happy hs level text, do it this year, and the following year jump to full AP Z.

 

I went right into AP chem with no physical science and no hs chem when I was in school. It can be done, but it's doing it the hard way. Since he'll only be concurrent on the algebra 2, that math may be kinda challenging too. Not that he can't do it, but the math for AP chem is, well it's just a lot over and over (unit conversions, logs, blah blah). So just seems to me stepping it down to a normal hs class would solve your problem. But what do I know... :)

[Dicentra]

Just a thought, SM3 - I don't have the Zumdahl Intro to Chem in front of me to look at but I might be a bit wary of jumping back and forth between two texts. My worry would be that even if two chapter headings are the same in two different texts, they may not cover exactly the same material. KWIM? So by jumping back and forth, you may inadvertently miss a topic(s) which could be confusing later on. If you're pre-reading both texts and know exactly what's in each chapter of each, then that won't be problem. :)

[melmichigan]

Not that it's any of my business, cuz I sold my Z Intro stuff, but you might think about moving to Z's World. Intro doesn't actually cover all the topics that some hs texts do (comparing it to BJU for instance), but it covers it with dramatically more depth and difficulty (because of course it's a college text). Going straight into a college text isn't ideal anyway, and you're saying he's gonna get overloaded. So you could just go to a nice, happy hs level text, do it this year, and the following year jump to full AP Z.

 

I went right into AP chem with no physical science and no hs chem when I was in school. It can be done, but it's doing it the hard way. Since he'll only be concurrent on the algebra 2, that math may be kinda challenging too. Not that he can't do it, but the math for AP chem is, well it's just a lot over and over (unit conversions, logs, blah blah). So just seems to me stepping it down to a normal hs class would solve your problem. But what do I know... :)

 

 

What is missing from Introductory Chemistry? I don't own the BJU book so I'm limited to comparing their scope and sequence, which appear the same. I'm currently reading the 6th edition of Zumdahl if that makes any difference.

[swimmermom3]

Not that it's any of my business, cuz I sold my Z Intro stuff, but you might think about moving to Z's World. Intro doesn't actually cover all the topics that some hs texts do (comparing it to BJU for instance), but it covers it with dramatically more depth and difficulty (because of course it's a college text). Going straight into a college text isn't ideal anyway, and you're saying he's gonna get overloaded. So you could just go to a nice, happy hs level text, do it this year, and the following year jump to full AP Z.

 

I went right into AP chem with no physical science and no hs chem when I was in school. It can be done, but it's doing it the hard way. Since he'll only be concurrent on the algebra 2, that math may be kinda challenging too. Not that he can't do it, but the math for AP chem is, well it's just a lot over and over (unit conversions, logs, blah blah). So just seems to me stepping it down to a normal hs class would solve your problem. But what do I know... :)

 

 

OhElizabeth, it is always good to hear from you. I do have the Holt Chemistry high school text as apparently I can never have too many science or math texts on one topic. :tongue_smilie: I honestly think that Sailor Dude may be past the high school texts with their oversize print, highlighted key words, and definitions already on the sides. This year for ninth grade, we are only working with one college text. He has slowly built up speed with his reading and note-taking. At the beginning of the semester, it was a struggle to do more than two or three pages of the dense text at a time. He is now comfortably reading and taking notes on a chapter a week (30 pages) in the AP World History text. I go over his notes to check for completeness. Thanks to his TWTM work with main ideas, he seldom misses what is important; he could just use a little organizational finesse.

 

In my opinion, the Zumdahl test is better-written and offers more thorough explanations by far than the Hold text does and I think that my ds could use Zumdahl with ease. I do appreciate the heads-up that there may be some gaps and I will try to compare it to the Holt text content-wise. If you remember where you think the gaps are, please let me know.

 

I like the writing in the Chang book. It is not very chatty and is to the point. I am not using Chang as an AP Chemistry. I don't even know if it will be "Honors." We'll just do the work and if it seems to go well, we may or may not explore the SAT II Chemistry test. I am a bit concerned about outside validation for "Mom grades."

 

Your point about doing Algebra 2 concurrently is a good one. My hope is that the chemistry math won't outstrip the pace of the Adv. Algebra II class.

[swimmermom3]

Just a thought, SM3 - I don't have the Zumdahl Intro to Chem in front of me to look at but I might be a bit wary of jumping back and forth between two texts. My worry would be that even if two chapter headings are the same in two different texts, they may not cover exactly the same material. KWIM? So by jumping back and forth, you may inadvertently miss a topic(s) which could be confusing later on. If you're pre-reading both texts and know exactly what's in each chapter of each, then that won't be problem. :)

 

 

Connie, this is a valid concern. My process is to read Chang first and then Zumdahl. They both have wide margins, so I use small post-it notes to mark topics, areas where I have questions, and to note an explanation that I may prefer in one book over the other. The content in Chap. 1 of Chang appears to be almost identical to Chapters 1 and 2 in Zumdahl, although Zumdahl has more examples and scenarios. I am not sure if the chattiness in Zumdahl will increase ds's understanding or if it will just be extra reading. Maybe if I prefer an explanation in Zumdahl, it would be better to talk about it in our discussion than actually give my son the text.

 

What I may need to know from you, Connie, is if there are areas that we can cut later on in the Chang text. What I have learned from my older kids is to take just a bit more time to make sure the concepts at the beginning of the year, the foundational pieces, are really solid. It saves time at the end of the year. This way too, Sailor Dude would have some time to adapt to working with a college science text and could get up to speed with a bit less pressure.

 

I really like both texts for different reasons, which is good because I loathe that Holt text with a passion.

[PeterPan]

What is missing from Introductory Chemistry? I don't own the BJU book so I'm limited to comparing their scope and sequence, which appear the same. I'm currently reading the 6th edition of Zumdahl if that makes any difference.

 

I have the BJU chem lab book and tm, so I was looking up topics from BJU to see if I could correlate Z Intro and BJU hs. You can see the BJU toc on cbd, BJUPhomeschool, or RR.

 

BJU's high school texts tend to be more challenging than their ps counterparts, but BJU is marketing them as a one-stop solution for cs, where you typically don't have AP.

[EKS]

My thought is that Zumdahl's Introductory Chemistry: A Foundation (is this the book you have?) is the *best* science text I used in 10 years of homeschooling. It is as interesting as a chemistry text can be, the explanations are crystal clear, and there are practice problems incorporated into the text, meaning that the student can actively check his comprehension prior to moving on to the practice problems.

[melmichigan]

My thought is that Zumdahl's Introductory Chemistry: A Foundation (is this the book you have?) is the *best* science text I used in 10 years of homeschooling. It is as interesting as a chemistry text can be, the explanations are crystal clear, and there are practice problems incorporated into the text, meaning that the student can actively check his comprehension prior to moving on to the practice problems.

 

Yes, I have the 6th edition because I wanted the videos and online resources. I really enjoy the writing style of the is text, which surprised me. I wish I'd had a text like this when I took chemistry, it was a dull, boring subject at the time and I was happy with a B.

 

My only dilemma is in how to choose problems at the end of a chapter, especially with all the new problems added for the 6th edition? Will this become more clear once the TE arrives?

[EKS]

Yes, I have the 6th edition because I wanted the videos and online resources. I really enjoy the writing style of the is text, which surprised me. I wish I'd had a text like this when I took chemistry, it was a dull, boring subject at the time and I was happy with a B.

 

My only dilemma is in how to choose problems at the end of a chapter, especially with all the new problems added for the 6th edition? Will this become more clear once the TE arrives?

 

I had my son do the evens as those where the ones we had solutions for.

[Dicentra]

Connie, this is a valid concern. My process is to read Chang first and then Zumdahl. They both have wide margins, so I use small post-it notes to mark topics, areas where I have questions, and to note an explanation that I may prefer in one book over the other. The content in Chap. 1 of Chang appears to be almost identical to Chapters 1 and 2 in Zumdahl, although Zumdahl has more examples and scenarios. I am not sure if the chattiness in Zumdahl will increase ds's understanding or if it will just be extra reading. Maybe if I prefer an explanation in Zumdahl, it would be better to talk about it in our discussion than actually give my son the text.

 

What I may need to know from you, Connie, is if there are areas that we can cut later on in the Chang text. What I have learned from my older kids is to take just a bit more time to make sure the concepts at the beginning of the year, the foundational pieces, are really solid. It saves time at the end of the year. This way too, Sailor Dude would have some time to adapt to working with a college science text and could get up to speed with a bit less pressure.

 

I really like both texts for different reasons, which is good because I loathe that Holt text with a passion.

 

 

If you follow Dr. Tang's outline for Chang Gen Chem, he does chapters:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, & 22

That means he leaves out:

Chapter 18 - Thermodynamics

Chapter 20 - The Chemistry of Coordination Compounds

 

Most high school (and even first year university intro chem courses) will leave out chapters on coordination compounds, transition metals, etc. Those are more specialized aspects of chem that would be covered in more depth at 3rd and 4th year if the student wants to major in Chem. (Although the old AP Chem did coordination compounds - I don't know what the new AP Chem will cover.)

 

If you give me a little while, maybe what I'll try and do is to split Chang and give two alternate options - a list of chapters/subtopics to be covered if someone is just looking to do what would be covered in Reg Chem but at a higher difficulty level and a list of chapters/subtopics if someone wants to do a difficult honours level course. Does that make sense? :)

[Corraleno]

Intro doesn't actually cover all the topics that some hs texts do (comparing it to BJU for instance), but it covers it with dramatically more depth and difficulty (because of course it's a college text).

 

Do you remember if the Zumdahl text you had was Intro Chem or Intro Chem: A Foundation? The Foundation text has additional chapters on organic; perhaps that's what you found missing?

 

I agree with EKS and Melmichigan's assessment of Zumdahl -- I love the writing style and find the overall layout and presentation really engaging. I gave DH a stack of chemistry texts, without mentioning that Zumdahl was my first choice, and asked him to look them over and tell me which he preferred, and he also liked the Zumdahl (Foundations) the best. There were a couple of topics where he liked the explanations in another text a little better (Tro?), but overall he preferred Zumdahl and thought it was a good choice for DS. So that's my plan for next year, once DS finishes astronomy.

 

Jackie

[elegantlion]

Slight hijack. Does anyone know if you can get teacher material for a 5th edition of the Intro Chem (not foundations) text? Can you get by with just the student and teacher text? Assuming I'm buying a lab kit elsewhere.

[FaithManor]

 

Well, for my own subject that I teach at college, I am writing my own exams, LOL - because that's where I do have the expertise.

It's subjects like chemistry that are not my field where I use tricks like this ;-)

 

 

Regentrude, sometimes I think we are mirror images of each other, LOL! I make my own chem exams and LOVE doing it, but have to resort to your trick with physics.

 

Faith

[melmichigan]

Do you remember if the Zumdahl text you had was Intro Chem or Intro Chem: A Foundation? The Foundation text has additional chapters on organic; perhaps that's what you found missing?

 

I agree with EKS and Melmichigan's assessment of Zumdahl -- I love the writing style and find the overall layout and presentation really engaging. I gave DH a stack of chemistry texts, without mentioning that Zumdahl was my first choice, and asked him to look them over and tell me which he preferred, and he also liked the Zumdahl (Foundations) the best. There were a couple of topics where he liked the explanations in another text a little better (Tro?), but overall he preferred Zumdahl and thought it was a good choice for DS. So that's my plan for next year, once DS finishes astronomy.

 

Jackie

 

 

I wondered about this the more I thought about it. Introductory Chemistry 6e has three more chapters than Basic Chemistry 6e, covering Equilibrium, Oxidation-reducation Reaction and Electrochemistry, and Radioactivity and Nuclear Energy.

 

Introductory Chemistry: A Foundation 6e has two more chapters than Introductory Chemistry (five more than Basic), covering Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry. 6e also has a new separate chapter on energy, adding in material on enthalpy, Hess's law, entropy, and a few other topics.

 

If anyone finds anything missing please let me know so I can be sure to cover all necessary material.

[Robin in DFW]

Look up Quarks and Quirks blog...she has a whole syllabus for the Z text along with videos, labs, additional readings and whatnot.

 

I had planned on doing this with ds, but we ended using that dreaded Holt text and an old Keystone syllabus from dd's homeschooling days. We are doing the labs from the book and will be doing JUST labs after he finishes the course using the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments. (Lisa---I got this book back out after corresponding with you...it may just work after the textbook chemistry is done.)

 

He has actually liked the Holt text even though I think it looks and reads rather boring.

 

Robin