Switch from CLE to Saxon? Also, do you use Saxon a year ahead (like VP)?

[profmom]

1.) My youngest dd is finishing 2nd grade and CLE Math 2. We have no problems with it -- like the workbook format, the clear-cut daily lessons, speed drills, etc. Still, I'm wondering about switching to Saxon for 3rd grade -- partly because I don't want to deal with skipping a year or so to do Algebra 1 in 8th grade. (I switched my ds from CLE after 6th grade into a different pre-algebra program, and it didn't go very well.) Plus, I've heard a lot of praise for Saxon from different sources lately. Please feel free to comment on any of that! In all these years, I've never used Saxon!

 

2.) Also, for those who use Saxon, do you use it a year ahead, like Veritas Press -- such as 5/4 for 3rd grade? I looked through the 5/4 book at Mardel, and my dd had already covered the material in the first 25% or so. I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to move straight from CLE3 to Saxon 5/4, assuming her Saxon placement text agrees with that assessment. Are there reasons it wouldn't be a good idea to go to 5/4 in 3rd grade?

[famof5redheads]

I think you'll be fine. Do the placement test to make sure and if that's fine I'm sure you'll have no worries. I have switched one child from Saxon to CLE and the same child back to Saxon. No real problems w/ CLE. It was a grass may be greener switch that also included time with Teaching Textbooks and Math Mammoth but I realized that I just really like Saxon. I have an older child who has been w/ Saxon 1 through Saxon 7/6. If you stay with Saxon, I highly recommend Art Reed's book Using John Saxon's Math Books. http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/review-about.php. There are so many Saxon editions, so many different ideas (right or wrong) about skipping certain books, moving a grade ahead, doing odd problems only or even problems only, how to grade tests. This short book really helps make sense of all that. I did not buy it until recently (used through WTM classifieds!) and I wish I'd had it when my oldest started 5/4. You can also go to that website and read past newsletters. If you don't buy the book, do read over those newsletter articles.They're a big help.

[Ellie]

My rule of thumb would be to start a child in Math 54 when he tested into it. His grade level would be irrelevant. John Saxon would probably say the same thing.

[JudoMom]

I've used 5/4 in 3rd grade without issue, and it shouldn't be an issue if your child places into it. My only warning would be the amount of writing involved.

[The Way of My People]

We haven't gotten to this point in Saxon yet, but I think you'd probably be fine using it a year ahead. Of course, I'd have your child take the placement test to be sure. We use Saxon at least a year ahead. The first 1/4 to 1/3 of each book is review - so your child will get a chance to catch up on any small areas she might not have covered yet.

[Hunter]

My rule of thumb would be to start a child in Math 54 when he tested into it. His grade level would be irrelevant. John Saxon would probably say the same thing.

 

:iagree:

[Guest]

We were supposed to be in 5/4 in 3rd grade, and I just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I didn't feel my son was ready for the writing, and that wasn't a battle I was going to fight next year. We are going to do (are doing) Singapore to see how it works, but we eventually plan to go back to Saxon.

[Meriwether]

Ds8 did Saxon 5/4 this year (3rd). I usually wrote out the chunk of problems in the middle of the mixed practice. I did make him tell me how to write it if it was important to the problem. If he was adding 4.36, .025, and 86.4, he had to tell me, "The zero goes under the three and the 4 goes unter the zero".

[...................]

We used Saxon in 2-5th grade. I don't understand the push to do Saxon that far ahead. My son was interested and challenged doing Saxon 5/4 in 4th grade and 6/5 in 5th grade. He scored very high on his Calvert placement test, in some sections he scored into 7th grade math, though he was placed in 6th overall.

 

WHy push it? Susan Wise Bauer mentions this in her book. If you do the sequence of doing it on the lower numnbers (ie, 5/4 in 4th grade and so on), your child will be doing Calculus in 12th grade. Do you really want to be teaching Calculus 2 in 12th grade? Would it really be beneficial?

[Hunter]

We used Saxon in 2-5th grade. I don't understand the push to do Saxon that far ahead. My son was interested and challenged doing Saxon 5/4 in 4th grade and 6/5 in 5th grade. He scored very high on his Calvert placement test, in some sections he scored into 7th grade math, though he was placed in 6th overall.

 

WHy push it? Susan Wise Bauer mentions this in her book. If you do the sequence of doing it on the lower numnbers (ie, 5/4 in 4th grade and so on), your child will be doing Calculus in 12th grade. Do you really want to be teaching Calculus 2 in 12th grade? Would it really be beneficial?

 

 

I don't believe in pushing Saxon, but I also don't believe in holding children back either. I can't speak for Ellie, but I was responding to her comment that age/grade was irrelevant to placing a student in Saxon, and was in no way agreeing with the new push to do Saxon 54 in 3rd grade.

 

And yeah, teaching Calculus to a 15 year old can be a problem. BTDT. The law says 15 year olds need to be taught math and I was in over my head.

[...................]

Of course. By all means, if you have a gifted and motivated child moving himself or herself along, no one is saying to hold them back. :o)

 

The placement test is your friend!

[*Michelle*]

Next year will be our third year with Saxon. We did Math K in preschool, Math 1 this year for kindergarten and will do Math 2 for first grade. I guess that puts us on track to hit 5/4 in third grade. As long as my son is getting it, we'll keep up our current pace. We do school year-round though, so we have time to slow down as needed.

 

OP, I really like Saxon and we'll keep using it as long as it works. I don't want to jump around in math. Saxon is easy to supplement, so that's what we do to keep things interesting. Of course, Saxon K-3 is completely different from the higher levels, but I've looked over the samples for those and the methods still make sense to me.

[Mom0012]

My dd will be going from CLE 6 to Saxon 8/7 this coming year. She'll use the Art Reed DVDs. At first, I was slightly concerned about working ahead since this will have her finishing algebra 2 in 8th grade, but I have the option of using 1/2 if I feel like she's not ready for algebra the next year. And if she is ready, then working ahead gives me the freedom to supplement with other programs to really solidify her understanding.

 

I can't really see putting her in a lower level of Saxon at this point. It would be like repeating a year when she doesn't need to.

[happypamama]

I'd do 5/4 if that's where your child tests. I've done Saxon a bit ahead with my daughter because that's what's been right for her, not because of something arbitrary. However, I did realize that her current trajectory puts her on the path to a second year of Calculus in high school, and I don't think she's going to want or need that, so we decided that we'll split the pre-algebra book and do it over two years, plus supplements. If your child is ready for 5/4, go ahead and use it, and change something later if you need to slow down for some reason.

[Ellie]

Let me add this to my previous comment: I would not consider "grade level" when placing a child in Saxon BUT neither would I start a child in Saxon who is not able to read and do the work himself. IOW, if I have to sit with him and write out everything for him because his reading and writing skills aren't there yet, then I'd do something else for awhile until he could do Saxon.

[LindaOz]

My ds8 (third grade) is doing Saxon 5/4. I had no intention of starting him until next year, but he has been wanting to start because his older sisters all use Saxon. I didn't think he was ready to read the lesson and set out all the problems while working from a textbook etc etc etc. Apparently, I was wrong. I decided one day that I would just give him a try. Well, he was off and racing. I read through the lesson with him and showed him how to set it out. Since then, he has set out and written out his own problems. Within about a week, he was asking to read the lesson for himself. So, clearly he was ready for it despite his grade. You just never know what they are capable of and you can always slow down a bit later on if they hit a sticky patch.

[profmom]

Thanks for your advice! There's kind of a placement test bubble between Saxon 3 and 5/4, and it seems she tests into both! The Saxon 3 test says that the student goes into 3 if they get 9-11 (out of 11) correct on the test (but she could also get all correct on any of the tests below that), and the 5/4 test says to go with 5/4 if she gets 15 or less correct out of 20. I'm not actually trying to push her ahead -- just place her correctly. When I looked at 5/4 at Mardel, I noticed that the first 25-30 lessons would be review (and I stopped looking after that), which is what made me think 5/4 might be the right starting point. However, I bet she'd much rather continue with CLE's workbook format than begin writing out all the problems (if she were given a choice)! I'm still not sure what to do, but I appreciate your sharing your experiences!

 

Is it normal for CLE to be ahead, even a year ahead, of Saxon?

[loftmama]

Ds8 did Saxon 5/4 this year (3rd). I usually wrote out the chunk of problems in the middle of the mixed practice. I did make him tell me how to write it if it was important to the problem. If he was adding 4.36, .025, and 86.4, he had to tell me, "The zero goes under the three and the 4 goes unter the zero".

 

 

I wish I had thought of this. My then 8yo was bored with Saxon 3 so I bumped him up to 5/4 which was just right only it was too much writing. So I held him back and, consequently, Saxon 3 has felt like busy work. :( In the future, I need to remember to give myself permission to modify.