Homeschool to med school

[Amominfl]

This is (sort of) my first post so an intro is in order :)

We have 6 kids-all homeschooled. Oldest DS16 is on track for community college after senior yr. DS14 is looking towards med school (and my reason for joining the forums and posting). DS13 is looking at DE for his last three years and then finishing up his aviation degree at a local univ. DS12 will probably end up in finance. DD10 wants to be a vet. DD9 changes her mind about every 6 months.

 

I figured out a few weeks ago that DS14 can finish his high school reqs in three years. What has me worried is "Am I asking/pushing him enough?" The plan for the moment is for all honors academic courses (no AP or DE) and some ECs (physician shadowing, volunteer at hospital, swimming, Boy Scouts, church, etc) The goal for him is to get into a small Christian LAC. We aren't looking at "Big name U". But I keep running into parents (online and IRL) whose kids are taking full AP/IB, playing in 2 bands, taking 3 languages, playing competitive sports and on and on and on.

 

So I get nervous that he won't be prepared enough - especially since we haven't done this before. Any thoughts, advice?

[kiana]

When you say "finish his high school reqs", how much math and science will he have had?

 

He will need exceptionally good grades in college to be competitive for med school, so you'll want to make sure that he's had a decent high school class biology, chemistry, and physics, because he'll need to take all of those courses in college and get good grades. For math, he should have as much math as he can handle, but at least through precalc and preferably an introduction to calculus. That way his freshman year classes will be an easier transition. If his high school requirements won't have him through bio, chem, phys, and precalc, then he should definitely take the extra year to be prepared.

[creekland]

Here's a thread I started after asking my middle son (currently on a pre-med track) some thoughts late last year:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/446101-pre-med-thoughts-from-middle-son/#entry4579289

 

Here's one with a link to what one med school was looking for when they picked a class:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/447629-for-potential-pre-meds/

 

It will likely be relatively easy to get accepted into a small Christian LAC (my oldest is a junior at one). However, you still want your student to be super prepared to do very well. Getting into med school is super competitive right now (yes, one can do it from a small LAC - my guy just wanted a research U).

 

I wish you all the best!

[Candid]

Big things to avoid are having him do any science requirements for college at the cc. Med schools will discriminate against that because cc courses are perceived as easier.

 

Next thing to do is to start investigating admissions to med school from the small LACs you are interested in. Find out IF they get in to med school and what med schools they get into. Then find out what they take at the LAC to do that.

[snowbeltmom]

The plan for the moment is for all honors academic courses (no AP or DE)

 

 

I would consider having your son study at least one of the three sciences at the AP level in high school. Many, but not all, of the kids going into pre-med will have taken APs in the sciences which will give them an advantage in college.

[Ellie]

Dr. Grant Colfax was homeschooled by his parents, David and Micki Colfax. I don't know what courses he took, but IIRC he did take some c.c. classes before going on to graduate from Harvard Medical School. I'm pretty sure that back in the day, homeschooled students didn't do AP classes.

[Luckymama]

 

 

I would consider having your son study at least one of the three sciences at the AP level in high school. Many, but not all, of the kids going into pre-med will have taken APs in the sciences which will give them an advantage in college.

 

It's always nice to have an easier course (as in, the student has already been exposed to the topic) freshman year when entering with a challenging major!

[mamajudy]

I would say the important thing is for him to be well prepared for the math and science courses he will have to take in college. He will need to have excellent grades in all his college level classes in order to score well on the MCAT and to have a competitive GPA. Shadowing a physician and volunteering at a hospital would be beneficial. The sports and band stuff might help him to get into college, but I don't think that med schools really care about your high school ECs. It's what you do in college thàt counts. DD (now a physician) went to an honors college when she was 16 with no APs or dual enrollment, got straight A's in college and high scores on her MCAT. She was accepted to several med schools and graduated at the top of her class - a doctor at the age of 24.

[Amominfl]

Thanks for all the input. From an academic perspective, I think we are covered. I had discovered the issue with Med school acceptance of community college classes (hence the no Dual Enrollment) and we are on a VERY tight budget (6 kids!), so many of the AP options aren't really available to us.

 

My plan was to have him do the DIVE Honors Biology/Chemistry/Physics and then the DIVE CLEP/AP prep for each one. This covers 3 yrs of science with labs.

For English, I am planning on using Excellence in Literature (Honors). I can give him Honors 9th grade English credit for the work he has been doing according to my neighbor who is a local High School English teacher. This covers English.

He is finishing up Saxon Algebra 1 and getting a solid A while doing every problem in every lesson (without reading the lesson sometimes :confused1: ) and will be following the Saxon path for 4 yrs of Math up through Calc.

Social Studies will be US History, World History, Econ/Gov

I intend to have him take the CLEP tests for all of these, but not ask for credit at the colleges.

 

I guess I'm more worried about his extra curriculars. He is planning on swimming with the High School swim team (he swam with a local christian school club team this past year). He will earn his Eagle Scout within the next 2 yrs, and will also be doing the volunteer/shadow ECs all along. Sometimes, I just feel like we're not doing "enough", but I don't want to overwhelm him!

 

As for his target schools, right now there are 2 at the top of his list - one has a 3+4 program with an associated Med School. The other one has very close ties with a local Med School. We are planning on a trip to the first one in June (in-state) and the 2nd one in the fall.

 

Creekland, those two threads are PERFECT! They were exactly what I was looking for, but hadn't found with the search function. I'll be following your son's progress closely :-)

 

Thanks everyone! I hope to be as helpful to you all as you have been to me so far.

[creekland]

 

I guess I'm more worried about his extra curriculars. He is planning on swimming with the High School swim team (he swam with a local christian school club team this past year). He will earn his Eagle Scout within the next 2 yrs, and will also be doing the volunteer/shadow ECs all along. Sometimes, I just feel like we're not doing "enough", but I don't want to overwhelm him!

 

As for his target schools, right now there are 2 at the top of his list - one has a 3+4 program with an associated Med School. The other one has very close ties with a local Med School. We are planning on a trip to the first one in June (in-state) and the 2nd one in the fall.

 

Creekland, those two threads are PERFECT! They were exactly what I was looking for, but hadn't found with the search function. I'll be following your son's progress closely :-)

 

Thanks everyone! I hope to be as helpful to you all as you have been to me so far.

 

As long as his ECs get him into his desired college, that's all you need. They won't matter for med school. Med schools will look at his college ECs as they want to know someone can do a bit in college and keep the academics going too. It's supposed to both show you have the ability to do more in med school (don't need all your time just for undergrad academics) AND are a like-able, active person.

 

Right now in college my guy is doing ASL (American Sign Language), a dance troupe, Christian clubs, Improv, hall government, and work study - while maintaining a 4.0 so far. I'm a little envious actually as there's no way I could have done everything he is doing.

 

Next year he tackles Orgo and will be a freshman assistant (living and working with them as an upperclassman.) He'll also be working in a lab, and likely, the hospital. Then he plans to keep his ECs going. We'll see what happens with his GPA.

 

Incidentally, he's not doing any of the above for med school. He's doing those things because he wants to do them. He hasn't yet decided 100% if he wants med school or perhaps just research. He'd be in his ECs even if he won the lottery and never wanted to go anywhere after undergrad...

[snowbeltmom]

Dr. Grant Colfax was homeschooled by his parents, David and Micki Colfax. I don't know what courses he took, but IIRC he did take some c.c. classes before going on to graduate from Harvard Medical School. I'm pretty sure that back in the day, homeschooled students didn't do AP classes.

Back in that day, very few students anywhere took AP classes. The reality is that med school admission today is more competitive than a generation ago. AP classes are the norm for kids entering pre-med in my neck of the woods. In fact, most of these kids have taken AP classes in physics, chemistry, biology and calc.

 

You don't need to pay for an online AP class in order to study the AP material or take the AP exam. If I remember correctly, Creekland's son self-studied at the AP level and did not take the AP exams. My son is going to self-study AP courses next year and then take the exams. For his science courses, I paid less than $20 for the textbook.

 

I am not saying that it is not possible to succeed in the weed-out science classes without the AP class background or equivalent, but it will be more difficult.

[Alice]

As long as his ECs get him into his desired college, that's all you need. They won't matter for med school. Med schools will look at his college ECs as they want to know someone can do a bit in college and keep the academics going too. It's supposed to both show you have the ability to do more in med school (don't need all your time just for undergrad academics) AND are a like-able, active person.

 

 

Incidentally, he's not doing any of the above for med school. He's doing those things because he wants to do them. He hasn't yet decided 100% if he wants med school or perhaps just research. He'd be in his ECs even if he won the lottery and never wanted to go anywhere after undergrad...

 

 

I’m a physician. I’ve served on the admissions committees for my university, my medical school and my residency program at various times.

 

Everything mentioned in this thread is good. You have to be solid in the sciences and have done enough math to be able to do the sciences. Good scores on the MCAT are important.

 

Medical schools aren’t going to care about what you did in high school, either grades, SAT/other test scores or extracurriculars. If you were valedictorian with a 4.5 GPA in high school but had a weak record in college they aren’t going to care. If you were a borderline student in high school but got into a small college and worked hard and have a fantastic record with great MCATs, they won’t care about your high school troubles. The only extracurriculars they will care about are things that you are very involved in or have a huge passion for. So a kid who is a talented musician might have that on their med school application but it won’t matter if you were student body president in high school. I think the difference is they will be interested in things that are lifelong pursuits but not the flurry of clubs and activities some kids tend to do.

 

Medical school also generally want to know that you have some idea of what it means to be a doctor. It’s a long hard road and they want to make sure you want to be there and know what you are getting yourself into. So extracurriculars in college that have to do with the medial field are going to be more interesting to them than others (volunteering at a hospital, working as an EMT, shadowing a physician). Lab research is also great, either at your college or at some kind of internship.

 

Finally, I’ll say that one of the biggest things we looked for were people who were interesting people. When you are reading through a ton of applications they all start to run together. They all are Biology or Pre-Med majors with 4.0 averages and great MCAT scores. It was always refreshing to read an application that somehow stood out or to interview someone who was interesting. The kid who had volunteered for Habitat for Humanity for three summers, the kid who played the accordian, the kid who had started out as an English major and still wrote poetry. You don’t have to have some weird interest or fake a passion for something just to make yourself stand out. (You can’t fake passion anyway.) But I think med schools want to see that you are a full person and are going to bring something more than grades and test scores to their school. The best thing is to do things you want to do/love to do.

[Julie of KY]

I'll second that it is good to stand out. I also am a physician. I took the route of chemical engineering to medical school and my application was "brutally honest". It sure didn't sound like anyone else's application. I got one of two huge scholarships to a class of 200 students and I was told it was because I wasn't just like everyone esle.

 

High school matters for the purpose of doing well in college. College matters a lot. Being yourself and following your passions go a long way in developing you as a person.

[MommyThrice]

I know very little about the topic, but I do have a friend that was homeschooled (NOT academically rigorous - she had LDs) She then attended a local cc then went to Ross Univ. Med School in Dominica. When I first heard where she was going, it sounded kinda like on-line law school to me... who would want to hire her? She made excellent grades in med school. She is now finishing up her internship at UTMB with a specialty in infectious diseases and is getting job offers all over the country!

 

I just want you to know that your son has more than one way to reach his goals.

[daijobu]

I disagree that CC courses are counted against you. But it does require balance. I attended a top 10 university in a tough major where the chemistry classes were brutally weed-out. So I took chemistry at a state school and a cc. BUT I had excellent MCATs and other things that shined on an application.

 

ETA: I should add that one guy on the admissions committee commented that he was impressed that a student spent 2 years at a cc before transferring to state U, because he saved money, had smaller class sizes, while still being well-prepared when he arrived at state U. YMMV.

 

In light of all the recent discussion about oppressive student loans, I would also research the lower cost public medical schools that are available to you. Generally (but not always), you need to be a minority or "walk on water" to attend an out-of-state medical school. (It used to be Southwestern in Dallas was a notable exception, but my info is old.) Try to research your region's medical school, specifically to find out of the college your student attends sends a lot of graduates there. A good counselor (sometimes available at college) is indispensable here. Of course this is especially important if your child is interested in primary care.

 

And don't push so many extracurriculars. IMO, it's better to excel at one or two things that she enjoys than to be spread too thinly.

 

Good luck!

[creekland]

I disagree that CC courses are counted against you. But it does require balance. I attended a top 10 university in a tough major where the chemistry classes were brutally weed-out. So I took chemistry at a state school and a cc. BUT I had excellent MCATs and other things that shined on an application.

 

 

The med school admissions folks we've heard and/or talked with all said that cc courses for pre-reqs ARE a nick against an application for a student coming straight from high school (totally different rules for graduates who then decide they want med school). A "nick" does not mean they toss an application. It only means it's a negative. For those who want no negatives, 'tis recommended to avoid them. YMMV and your experience shows it's not necessarily a "killer" (which matches what they said). Non pre-req courses are fine, but realize all cc classes count for GPA.

 

Naturally, we didn't check with every med school admissions person out there. We've heard from three different schools (2 Top 15, 1 state). All said the same thing. However, there could be some schools who don't care as there are far more than 3 med schools out there.

 

Many med schools don't care about state of residence. Some definitely do. If you live in a state that gives preference to its own residents, it's definitely a help.

 

There's tons of statistical data about med school applicants and matriculants here:

 

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

[snowbeltmom]

I was reading this post last night on College Confidential written by a rep from the University of Chicago:

 

If I’m interested in the health professions, what should I be doing while still in high school? Do my high school experiences go onto an application for medical school?

 

While there is nothing that you would *have* to do in high school, it is never too early to start taking action on exploring your interests. Why are you interested in health care? Have you tested this out? Volunteering at a hospital, or a non-profit organization, or even shadowing health care professionals that you may know are great ways to gain some clarity. If available and you feel ready, taking an AP course within the sciences can help prepare you for the level of science that is common here. Your experiences in high school will not be included onto an application for medical school, but could definitely be mentioned as a starting point for your career exploration. One note about community college courses—you WILL report to medical schools ALL courses (and grades) taken at any 2- or 4-year college, regardless of whether they are put onto your collegiate transcript.

 

Speaking of AP courses, do those substitute for the pre-requisite courses I will need for medical school?

 

No. If the University of Chicago grants you credit for your AP courses, the expectation is that you will then move onto a higher-level course within that discipline. Medical schools want to see that you have successfully completed a full year each of biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, and math while at college.

 

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/1473720-health-professions-premed-uchicago.html

[kiana]

 

The med school admissions folks we've heard and/or talked with all said that cc courses for pre-reqs ARE a nick against an application for a student coming straight from high school (totally different rules for graduates who then decide they want med school). A "nick" does not mean they toss an application. It only means it's a negative. For those who want no negatives, 'tis recommended to avoid them. YMMV and your experience shows it's not necessarily a "killer" (which matches what they said). Non pre-req courses are fine, but realize all cc classes count for GPA.

 

From what I heard when talking to them, it mattered most if it looked like you were trying to get 'easy' classes. The specific example they gave to me was that a student with an associate's from a community college who had taken some courses there would be much better off than one who had done four years at a good school but taken summer med school courses at the community college.

 

As always, YMMV.