Deciding between Saxon 6/5 or 5/4 for a rising 5th Grader

[PachiSusan]

And yes I know, the typical choice is 6/5 for a rising 5th grader, and I know many of you have your children even ahead a grade. I'm okay with that. :)

 

I really need help here. We have gone through the agonizing process of deciding which Math program to switch to. Seton has had their own Math program (traditional spiral type math) all the way up through fourth grade. At fifth they either switch to MCP Math or Saxon. After many months of reading up, asking questions, praying, agonizing over this switch, it came down to the fact that if we are staying with Seton through HIgh School even, Saxon is the choice from here on in of the school. Why switch her to MCP for 2 years THEN Saxon. We need to do the switch now.

 

We did the placement test and she definitely places within the 6/5 book. Smack dab average for a rising 5th grader. However, Math has been somewhat of a struggle for her mentally. Concept-wise, she does pretty well, but anything new puts her in a tail spin and she gets emotional and can't think logically through it for a while. When she feels more comfortable with it, she does very well. We've had to stop math, back up, and go forward slowly. Right now we are about 4 weeks behind all the other subjects in math. Not because she can't/doesn't understand, but that she has a math mental block.

 

She gets A's in math for concepts but things take literally FOREVER because she does not have her math facts memorized. She doesn't have her times tables down pat, and she has the attitude of "get 'er done". She doesn't try to remember things past the test with Math. We drill all the time. The way I tested concepts for her is that I let her do her cumulative review and she got a 65%. I let her use a times table on a different cumulative review and she got 100%. All her issues have to do with miscalculations of arithmetic because she's still counting on her fingers. Yes, at 10 years old.

 

Part of me feels like a failure at teaching this kid math, but I cognitively know that's not true.

 

We decided to go with 5/4 because I do think that she needs some extra time to feel comfortable with the subject matter. We made the decision based on the fact that she really needs to get her feet firmly on the ground before we move forward with new concepts.

 

I got the book in the mail and I've been browsing through it next to our Math book from this year. I notice that some concepts that she is learning in THIS year's book isn't even addressed in 5/4 like Prime numbers, prime factorization, averages, 3 digit division.

 

On the positive side, there are some things in 5/4 that our 4th grade math book didn't address in any great detail, but just introduced the concept.

 

I want to do what's right by her and giving her the best foundation without babying her. Is it possible to start with 5/4 and move through faster if need be? Is this choice going to put her back for every year, or do you think she will be able to get her math legs and then be able to move forward in a more efficient manner?

 

Just to be clear: I don't care what the "normal" choice is for Saxon in 4th grade. My ego isn't involved and neither is hers. I know she will not be "grade level" to other kids who use the program, but I want what's best for her.

 

My question: is it better to back up and redo concepts she has already done, catch a few she's NOT done and possibly just move faster through 5/4, or is it better to move on and spend a little more time reinforcing the review in the beginning and moving on with 6/5?

[SunnyDays]

What I've seen others mention before... Could you start in 5/4, and give her the tests? If she makes, say, 90% or above, move to the next test. If she gets lower, back up and go over the newer concepts. Maybe this will also help her gain confidence, as in, look, you got to skip three chapters because you know the material so well!

 

It will really help once she gets the facts memorized. Does Saxon have built in drill each day? I've looked at it but can't remember. If you need drill material, we have had good luck with www.math-drills.com - it has a drill sheet for anything under the sun, LOL!

 

:grouphug: Shes doing fine, so are you!

[kiana]

I would test her through 5/4 since you already have it. Give the tests, and when she falls below 80% start there with the lessons.

 

For the multiplication, have you thought of including a brief (no more than 5 minutes TOPS) multiplication drill? This could be separated from other mathematics so that she doesn't get burnt out -- for example, drill, english, math.

[TraceyS/FL]

Hmmmm, it is tough! We went from the first half of Abeka 3rd into 5/4 without issue - and DD did finally memorize the various tables! LOL!!

 

It has been so long since we have done Saxon though I can't offer much, other than to say for that child I wish I had gone with my gut and used MUS (I did try Singapore with her - but she really would have needed to start back at the start due to the lack of "mental math" experience) with her. She was a lot like your DD - conceptually she got it, but the fact memorization just wasn't happening.

 

One thing that helped with the fact drill is Calculadders. I still love them, and am doing them with my other two kids (but I *hate* their download version - I'd buy the Masterpak CDs and use the old format of marking their progress). I liked that it wasn't timed, but you use their time to factor in if they have "passed" (a matrix of points for ones missed and the time). When they score a 10, they move on. I honestly haven't used a fact drill "thingy" i've liked better.

 

Hopefully someone has some more current wisdom on the Saxon level for you!

[Ellie]

Go with the placement test.

 

There isn't a "typical" placement for fifth grade. Or fourth grade. Or sixth grade. It is why there are two numbers on each book. :-)

 

So do 65, and take as much time as necessary to help her be successful. Go over the lessons with her. Help her work the first couple of problems. Be sure she knows she can ask you questions at any time. Be sure she does *every.single.problem. in every.single.problem.set. If there are extra practice sets, have her do those, too, if you think she needs them.

[Koerarmoca]

I'd go with the placement test. Dd11 placed in 8/7 but I put her in 7/6 because 8/7 was too challenging (read: mature)

 

Well I then decided I dislike Saxon and went a different way!

[nurse_kris]

I wouldn't move onto 6/5 until you get the math facts down. IMO, Saxon is a difficult program, and it would be much easier once she learns her facts. We struggled with math facts too, and xtramath.org has been great! My kids do it everyday and have shown tremendous progress.

[happypamama]

We switched DD to Saxon and started at 54; I wanted her to be solid on everything and understand Saxon's way of doing things before she hit anything complicated. We did 54 kind of fast -- I just did lessons where I knew she didn't know the concepts or was weak in them. Then we went on to 65, and she did fine.

[PentecostalMom]

We switched DD to Saxon and started at 54; I wanted her to be solid on everything and understand Saxon's way of doing things before she hit anything complicated. We did 54 kind of fast -- I just did lessons where I knew she didn't know the concepts or was weak in them. Then we went on to 65, and she did fine.

 

I would try this. And keep drilling facts. Do you take a summer break? You could drill facts a lot, there are lots of ways to do that. Worksheets, flash cards, online games, FlashMaster or Math Shark. Anything to help her get those down. That will help her move along in everything else.

 

FWIW, I don't think your daughter is "behind". She is a perfectly normal average student and that is okay. Not everyone has to be "advanced", doing 2-3 math programs, 2-3 LA programs, and a year haead. You are meeting her where she is and that is PERFECT!

 

ETA: I was one of those moms who tried to do various programs and eventually the dc got burned out. I learned my lesson the hard way and am now making good choices based on solid programs that have been around awhile. I am not one to jump on the bus when something new comes out. My dd is doing fine, ahead in some subjects, average in others and that is okay. I am still giving her a better education and upbringing than she could get anywhere else.

[RootAnn]

My question: is it better to back up and redo concepts she has already done, catch a few she's NOT done and possibly just move faster through 5/4, or is it better to move on and spend a little more time reinforcing the review in the beginning and moving on with 6/5?

 

For a mathophobe, I vote for backing up, redoing, catching, & possibly moving faster through 5/4. With that, I would *NOT* stress too much about things she still doesn't quite get in 54 because everything will be reviewed in 65.

[PachiSusan]

Bumping so I can find this tomorrow and answer each of you!

[kiwik]

I'd go for the doing the test and only covering the exercises if she struggles. If she gets better as she gets more comfortable extra repetition won't hurt and it may boost he confidence.