XH attended "getting your kid into MIT" seminar

[lisabees]

jhschool, I would imagine that a mathy, engineer type kid would consider MIT geek heaven. To be surrounded by like-minded souls and amazing opportunities? Of course, there are other fabulous options for geek-lovin kids. But this thread is about MIT. And MBM, U of Chicago is a fabulous school and certainly comes with a huge amount of prestige!

 

I clicked on this thread because I am fascinated by the college admissions process. I'm not specifically interested in MIT, but I have an older son who applied to schools that review their applicants holistically. Of course, there is no one way to get into schools such as these. An applicant needs to stand out from the others who also have near-perfect SAT scores. Your personality must shine through. It must be very clear how you would contribute to the community. And you must have luck on your side on the day the admissions person reviews your application. In fact, when reviewing all of the amazing applications, these admissions directors are looking for a reason to put yours aside. There are just too many to choose from!

 

Re: gym class. My memories are of volleyball. That ball terrified me!

[Nan in Mass]

Your personality must shine through. It must be very clear how you would contribute to the community. ... In fact, when reviewing all of the amazing applications, these admissions directors who looking for a reason to put yours aside...

 

Lisa - I spent years wondering whether it wouldn't be better to tone down any shine on the paperwork when it came time to do college apps and keeping in mind how I could do that. Then I read the first sentence of my son's application essay and realized that there was no way that strategy was going to work for him. It was interesting comparing applications. Some were designed to remove any personality and some were designed to encourage it to shine through. Of the transparent ones, some, like MIT, have their own specially designed application and others do it by asking for extra materials and by adding suppliments to the common app. Our flagship, on the other hand, asked that no extra material be sent. We used the application process as part of how we judged the college, which probably wasn't a good idea, since as far as I can tell, admissions and the college itself are two very different entities, sometimes working at cross purposes.

 

Nan

[MBM]

And MBM, U of Chicago is a fabulous school and certainly comes with a huge amount of prestige!

 

 

We used to live in Hyde Park because my husband went to U of C for grad school.

 

My son goes to the Young Scholars Program (YSP) on weekends at U of C and loves it. He greatly admires Paul Sally and the TAs who run it. I wish more kids could participate in something like this. I can think of a few here whose kids would probably thrive in this kind of a program. My son just wants to find a place where he can do more challenging math.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm dissing MIT. It's a wonderful school full of all kinds of opportunities for the student who wants to take advantage of them.

[Barbara H]

 

I will also say that for my university, doing it without having mommy/daddy write a big check was looked on highly, especially for scholarships. That is, if the kid was singing in four church choirs/ensembles and assisting in directing the children's choir in exchange for theory lessons at once church and singing lessons at another, that's looked on more highly, all else being equal or close to equal, than the kid who has been able to take private violin lessons since she was 4, singing lessons since she was 12, and has spent every summer at music camp. That might not apply to MIT, though.

 

 

This kind of drive and initiative is impressive and is a positive thing for admissions and scholarships anywhere.

 

I understand why people look at high priced programs and assume their low or middle income child will be at a big disadvantage in terms of extracurriculars, but that's not necessarily the case. Some of the kids I've seen with the most impressive extracurricular profiles are not wealthy teens with fancy opportunities. What impresses you more - a student who spent $7,000 to travel for two weeks to find out there are poor people OR the student who volunteered for four years at a preschool for special needs kids? Admissions officers are people and most are going to answer that question the same way you would.

[jhschool]

...

 

We think he'll be better off at an easier geeky school. The school he wants to go to has open workbenches to play at. He already has interesting friends in some of the clubs. Or he'd be fine at one of the other geek schools. (One offered him a 1/3 ride and one a 1/2 ride - lol - my husband is definately more convinced than my son that he'd be fine at one of the other geeky schools).

Nan

 

 

Hi

 

Can you mention the other geek schools? (I only know Michigan Tech.)

Which has open workbenches? Cool...

[raptor_dad]

MIT could be a wonderful place for the right student, but it isn't right for everyone nor do all students want to go there. My eldest son went to IMSA (Illinois Math and Science) and neither he nor his friends were interested in MIT. I think at least one or two of them could have been accepted.

One of the big benefits of MIT or Stanford or various small LAC's is that it is the first chance for some gifted kids to be around others who are passionate about learning and have similar interests and quirks. If you have spent a couple of years at a free state-wide residential math science boarding school you have already gotten that benefit. Also IMSA's strong alumni network allows those kids to go to a variety of other schools and instantly find "their people". MIT still offers some unique benefits but they are more specific to academics.

My youngest's #1 choice as of now is U of Chicago. He doesn't care at all about the prestige of any school. If anything, he finds the prestige off-putting. He just wants to go somewhere where he can work on challenging math with like-minded people. U of C's math department fits the bill and, even better, behaves like a caring family.

 

Your son isn't put off by prestige... he is put off by the shallow, driven, grinders that prestigious schools attract. The Ivy's have more than their fair share of this sort. MIT, UoC, and other schools with a more quirky and intellectually curious climate have fewer... Trying to maintain an unique intellectual climate while being highly selective is going to annoy some people because sometimes it will come down to gut feelings.

[Nan in Mass]

 

Hi

 

Can you mention the other geek schools? (I only know Michigan Tech.)

Which has open workbenches? Cool...

 

 

I'm sorry but my son has asked me not to. Some of the geeky schools are pretty easy to find. Like Michigan Tech, they have "tech" someplace in their name - Massachusetts Institute of TECHnology, New Jersey Institute of TECHnology, California PolyTECHnic State University, ...Hong Kong PolyTECHnic University lol. I would be surprised if any of them did NOT have open workbenches. You can find others by searching for engineering schools and then looking at a list of the school's majors. Ones like Harvey Mudd College should show up that way. Geeky schools have some rather major disadvantages, too, so you have to be sure that is what you really want.

 

Nan

[mom2scouts]

When my oldest son applied to colleges, he applied to TWO schools and one of them was MIT and the other was a top 40 ranked research university. He did get a one on one interview with a MIT admissions person who asked about his interests and activities and not about academics. He didn't get accepted to MIT, but did get accepted to his second choice school. He found that most of the graduate students at his school did their undergrad studies at...MIT!

[Nan in Mass]

jhschool -

 

I've been thinking about your question, the what-does-this-say-about-us-if-we-want-our-child-to-go-there question. I think there are two parts to this. There is "I want my child to be intelligent. If the people at MIT want my child, then that means that he is intelligent." (Or quirky. Or whatever other attractive attribute you think MIT students are.) And then there is "I want my child to be taught by those intelligent professors." (Or quirky. Or ...) In other words, there is the I-want-my-child-to-be-MIT-material and there is the I-want-my-child-educated-by-MIT. I think it is much easier if you focus on the second. It is much easier to think "there are lots of places my where my child can get what he needs" than it is to think "my child is not intelligent enough".

 

Nan

 

(Ok - We do have a friend who did not have much choice. He needed to be at MIT or one of the few other places like it. But it isn't as though he had to apply and wait to see if he'd be accepted, either. They snatched him as soon as he said he wasn't happy where he was. But the shape of his life is about the same as the shape of ours plus a lot of uncomfortable challenges I'd rather my own children didn't have. They are odd enough as it is lol.)

[FaithManor]

Geeky schools have some rather major disadvantages, too, so you have to be sure that is what you really want.

 

Nan

 

 

I agree with this. Geek squad school is for a specific kind of kid. Make sure your kid is that kid.

 

MTU is a top choice for our eldest DS.

 

It is an awesome school, but only for a very specific kind of student...everyone else will likely be miserable and their transfer rate is exclusively because of students who do not get this, enroll, hate the remote, wild, outdoorsy quality of the school, and the isolation with an all geek campus in a small town in the middle of nowhereville (yes, it may be in Michigan, but it may as well be the Yukon Territory LOL), and thus transfer out at the end of freshman year. Reviews of the 2011-2012 school year indicate that not one single student reported transferring due to disatisfaction with academics, courses, access to labs, equipment, etc. Every single one said, too cold, too isolated, not enough artsy things to do, and NO CITY to go play in.

 

Open workbenches yes, lab equipment to drool over, yes. Is this a school for every budding scientist/engineer? Without a doubt, NO! It should not be the dream school of any social butterfly, of any student who cannot embrace the wild and the isolation and come to love it.

 

Fit is everything, in my opinion. It does one no good to get into MIT, Georgia Tech, Cal Tech, Embry Riddle, Michigan Tech, Virginia Tech, etc. and end up miserable or losing scholarships/class rank/ credits because one needs to transfer.

 

Faith

[jhschool]

I'm sorry but my son has asked me not to. Some of the geeky schools are pretty easy to find. Like Michigan Tech, they have "tech" someplace in their name - Massachusetts Institute of TECHnology, New Jersey Institute of TECHnology, California PolyTECHnic State University, ...Hong Kong PolyTECHnic University lol. I would be surprised if any of them did NOT have open workbenches. You can find others by searching for engineering schools and then looking at a list of the school's majors. Ones like Harvey Mudd College should show up that way. Geeky schools have some rather major disadvantages, too, so you have to be sure that is what you really want.

 

Nan

 

 

Can you tell us after he graduates and is accepted? :)

(Just teasing!)

:)

 

Right now my big issue is DS doesn't know if he is more geeky, more mathy (a little different

from geeky--less likely to build), or music, music, music! Our challenge is going to be finding a

university that has a nice culture for these topics and also has a nurturing profs kind of culture (teaching college). I know MIT has excellent departments in these fields,

but I am concerned about losing the

comfy atmosphere of a small town -- we also would like nurturing profs. Plus, Cambridge, MA is

not all that nice or clean. (No flames please!)

[jhschool]

I agree with this. Geek squad school is for a specific kind of kid. Make sure your kid is that kid.

 

MTU is a top choice for our eldest DS.

 

It is an awesome school, but only for a very specific kind of student...everyone else will likely be miserable and their transfer rate is exclusively because of students who do not get this, enroll, hate the remote, wild, outdoorsy quality of the school, and the isolation with an all geek campus in a small town in the middle of nowhereville (yes, it may be in Michigan, but it may as well be the Yukon Territory LOL), and thus transfer out at the end of freshman year. Reviews of the 2011-2012 school year indicate that not one single student reported transferring due to disatisfaction with academics, courses, access to labs, equipment, etc. Every single one said, too cold, too isolated, not enough artsy things to do, and NO CITY to go play in.

 

Open workbenches yes, lab equipment to drool over, yes. Is this a school for every budding scientist/engineer? Without a doubt, NO! It should not be the dream school of any social butterfly, of any student who cannot embrace the wild and the isolation and come to love it.

 

Fit is everything, in my opinion. It does one no good to get into MIT, Georgia Tech, Cal Tech, Embry Riddle, Michigan Tech, Virginia Tech, etc. and end up miserable or losing scholarships/class rank/ credits because one needs to transfer.

 

Faith

This is really interesting. I actually contemplated moving there if DS decided to go there (crazy

mom much?) There are houses for sale there that are very reasonably priced, and the

mortgage would not be much different than the rent he would pay in a dorm. Plus the plane fare every so often or the gas money would add up--it would be $250-$300 for the gas each way.

Anyway, my friend has a son there and she said it's breathtakingly beautiful. She does worry

in case he gets sick, and how long it would take for her to get to him or to get him brought back.

They sent me a package of information and it looks very cool.

Maybe it's time to go visit.

(an acquaintance of mine went there -- probably in the 80s-- and he said it was a party school)

I should start a thread on the college board finding out more about that.

[Nan in Mass]

Can you tell us after he graduates and is accepted? :)

(Just teasing!)

:)

 

Right now my big issue is DS doesn't know if he is more geeky, more mathy (a little different

from geeky--less likely to build), or music, music, music! Our challenge is going to be finding a

university that has a nice culture for these topics and also has a nurturing profs kind of culture (teaching college). I know MIT has excellent departments in these fields,

but I am concerned about losing the

comfy atmosphere of a small town -- we also would like nurturing profs. Plus, Cambridge, MA is

not all that nice or clean. (No flames please!)

 

 

GRIN - He's accepted (not MIT for anyone reading this in isolation lol) and he's trying to work out the finances at the moment. It would work out to be the most expensive of the geeky schools for him. Figures. Yah - one of the nice things about MIT appears to be that it has that multifacetedness. With most geeky schools, one can't help but wonder what will happen if your child changes direction mid-education. MIT does better than some with the boy-girl ratio, too.

I can see why you might not be thrilled about Cambridge, though. No flames here.

 

Nan

[Mama Geek]

There are plenty of good STEM college programs out there. MIT is not the Holy Grail.

 

I got into MIT without any of that stuff. I didn't actually GO there because we couldn't afford it.

 

And the few people I know who did go there don't seem to be any better situated in life than other people who went to "lesser" institutions.

 

The bottom line is that every decent school is going to teach the same stuff. There may be an advantage of contacts, but I have yet to see that in real life.

 

This is an interesting clip:

http://www.democrati...d.com/101823884

Not sure if this was really a random sample.

 

I suspect graduates of any institution would be similarly challenged. It's not just MIT.

 

 

When dh graduated with his Master's in Engineering from a good engineering school although not MIT, he ended up with a job at a really good company. They didn't normally higher from our University, they usually recruited from stronger programs. He ended up being pretty lucky.

 

My point is that colleges and programs do matter. I have known 1 guy from MIT and he has a Ph D from there in engineering. He went on to Harvard for an MBA and has done really well for himself. He was extremely smart and good at what he did and had great leadership skills.

[Gwen in VA]

My point is that colleges and programs do matter. I have known 1 guy from MIT and he has a Ph D from there in engineering. He went on to Harvard for an MBA and has done really well for himself. He was extremely smart and good at what he did and had great leadership skills.

 

I totally agree -- schools matter enormously.

 

However, there is an interesting study out there about students accepted to Harvard. The folks who did the study compared the income level of Harvard graduates with the incomelevel of folks accepted to Harvard who did not attend there. (Income is a lousy measure of "success", but one that has the benefit of being easily measured.) They found NO difference -- the income level of Harvard grads was the same as the income level of folks who were accepted to Harvard but went elsewhere. In other words, the success of Harvard grads was not dependent on Harvard per se but on the type of students that Harvard accepts. I assume that this conclusion can be generalized -- the students who have the drive to be competitive at top schools will do well wherever they go (or whatever school they drop out from -- like a certain Apple guy).

 

That said, I want my kids to go to a school where curiousity and intellectual pursuit are the norm, not the exception! Schools, programs, professors, and other students DO matter!

 

(No, I don't have the specific info on the study. If anyone wants to research it, that would be great!)

[Nan in Mass]

That said, I want my kids to go to a school where curiousity and intellectual pursuit are the norm, not the exception! Schools, programs, professors, and other students DO matter!

 

 

 

This is what worries me about the advice to apply to schools where your student is statistically at the very top of the student body. (I understand that some people need a full ride and might have no choice, and I understand that the statistics aren't necessarily a measure of how apathetic the student population is; my oldest just graduated from a college where the statistics are low and the aliveness and interest is very high when applied to the subject, although not necessarily when applied to academic problem-solving.) But this is a major for parents wanting schools like MIT which have a reputation for such an atmousphere.

 

Nan

[Matryoshka]

I can see why you might not be thrilled about Cambridge, though. No flames here.

 

Awww.... I :wub: :wub: :wub: Cambridge. Used to live there before I got married, about a mile from MIT. Harvard Square was a major hang-out. Was in the MIT ballroom dance club for a while - they don't care if you attend there - they were happy to improve their m/f ratio - the only place where a dance class has too many boys! Love the vibe, very different from Boston just across the river (and love the river).

 

No flames, just another perspective. :D

[katilac]

I'm sorry but my son has asked me not to. Some of the geeky schools are pretty easy to find. Like Michigan Tech, they have "tech" someplace in their name - Massachusetts Institute of TECHnology, New Jersey Institute of TECHnology, California PolyTECHnic State University, ...Hong Kong PolyTECHnic University lol. I would be surprised if any of them did NOT have open workbenches. You can find others by searching for engineering schools and then looking at a list of the school's majors. Ones like Harvey Mudd College should show up that way. Geeky schools have some rather major disadantages, too, so you have to be sure that is what you really want. Nan

 

Doesn't that violate the geek fellowship code, lol?