Lightroom vs Photoshop

[boymama]

Can I get some opinions about these two. The pros and cons. We are starting photography next year in 9th grade for arts credit. Thank you in advance

[tammyw]

I am a serious hobbyist photographer, and just wanted to offer my opinions. I think you should start with Lightroom. It's a very powerful tool and you can do a lot with it. Photoshop can do more advanced things, but it's also a challenging tool to learn for beginners.

 

I would also recommend shooting RAW right from the get go. If you're going to learn photography, do it right, haha! Then you import all your images directly into Lightroom and because you shot RAW, you can do things like recover slightly blown areas, fix white balance, etc. The cool thing about Lightroom is it's non-destructive.

[boymama]

OK< What is RAW and what do you mean by Lightroom is non- destructive?

[boymama]

I am a serious hobbyist photographer, and just wanted to offer my opinions. I think you should start with Lightroom. It's a very powerful tool and you can do a lot with it. Photoshop can do more advanced things, but it's also a challenging tool to learn for beginners.

 

I would also recommend shooting RAW right from the get go. If you're going to learn photography, do it right, haha! Then you import all your images directly into Lightroom and because you shot RAW, you can do things like recover slightly blown areas, fix white balance, etc. The cool thing about Lightroom is it's non-destructive.

 

What do you mean by RAW and that Lightroom is non-destructive?

[Lori D.]

What do you mean by RAW and that Lightroom is non-destructive?

 

 

 

Here's a handy article describing the difference between raw and in-camera processes images: http://www.luminous-...raw-files.shtml

 

And here is a GREAT blog article explaining the difference between Lightroom and Photoshop, and that for a beginner, all the reasons why Lightroom is the way to go: http://photographyli...op-vs-lightroom

 

 

And I'll take a stab at trying to define those two terms above for you:

 

Raw = A digital camera image that has not been processed yet. The image has not been converted into the format that allows for post production work -- just like food from the garden that has not yet been washed, chopped and cooked is "raw", it is not yet "processed".

 

 

Non-destructive = This means you can get your original raw image back -- formatting and post-production work done to the raw image can be un-done. Lightroom does not make permanent changes to the image; conversion and alternations can be un-done, they do not permanent change (destroy) the original raw image data. In contrast, if you do not shoot "raw" images (you would be shooting JPEG), the camera applies pre-set alternations to the images that cannot be un-done -- they are permanent or "destroy" the original image data.

[tammyw]

What do you mean by RAW and that Lightroom is non-destructive?

 

 

Okay, sorry, I should back up.

 

1. What kind of camera will you be using?

2. Will you be shooting in manual? I highly recommend it. Which brings us back to #1 above - it's easiest if you have a camera where you can change settings quickly. Most dSLRs will allow this, which is what I recommend.

 

Honestly, if you are starting right from the beginning, I would highly recommend doing some reading (either online or books from the library). Start with Manual exposure.

 

You have the option (on most dSLR cameras) to shoot RAW or jpeg. Jpeg has all the settings applied in camera. RAW is a very basic file that can be modified to your heart's desire.

 

this is really a bigger topic, but I highly recommend getting some books to start and that should help answer a lot of questions.

 

And honestly, when first learning, I'd focus more on the taking of the pictures before focusing on the editing of pictures! You want to learn to get it right in the camera before you learn to really start editing them.

[boymama]

THANKS SO MUCH and I will start reading!!! SO much reading to do before I have ahigh schooler. I think I I have to do more studying than he will. :drool:

[tammyw]

I highly recommend starting with Bryan Peterson's book "Understanding Exposure". It was the first book I ever read and gave me the ability to shoot Manual. Shooting Manual is the most important thing you can do, IMO. Then look for books on Light. Photography is ALL about light. So understanding it is critical to understanding photography!

[dereksurfs]

Like Tammy I'm really into photography as a hobby as well. Consequently I started all our dc out early with their own little cameras. Photoshop is really one of the *last* things to learn IMO. Exposure will be first as Tammy mentioned which includes learning how read the light using the camera's light meter. Then learn to set the proper exposure vs. leaving the camera in auto (dummy) mode. Next is Composition. These are the fundamentals of good photography which haven't changed since its very beginning. To set exposure will require a camera with *manual* controls. If you want RAW then that will also be important when looking into which camera to buy. Your standard point and shoot will not take you very far without at least some manual options. And these manual settings shouldn't be a royal pain to set either (e.g. going through too many menus). Then consider using a tripod which really helps minimize blur as well as allows for longer exposures (see ds11 below).

 

I use photoshop exclusively so I can't really compare with Lightroom except that I would not be able to use layers, masking, intelligent selection or other advanced features. And I use these things all the time. But for a beginner that probably isn't necessary. Here is a chart comparing the feature differences: http://www.adobe.com...comparison.html

 

Here are some shots of my son who is a budding shutterbug. He's been shooting in manual mode with tripods since he was 9 y/o and with a point and shoot since 5. But I haven't felt the need to teach him Photoshop yet. The only thing he has really needed it for has been for extreme dynamic range conditions in which two or more exposures can be used to capture the full range of light. This takes Photoshop to blend multiple exposures which can't be done in Lightroom - see last photo as an example.

 

 

 

 

Multiple exposures for night photography:

 

[dereksurfs]

I highly recommend starting with Bryan Peterson's book "Understanding Exposure". It was the first book I ever read and gave me the ability to shoot Manual. Shooting Manual is the most important thing you can do, IMO. Then look for books on Light. Photography is ALL about light. So understanding it is critical to understanding photography!

 

Yes, this is a great place to start. Then follow-up with "Understanding Composition." Quite honestly both of these subjects could cover a first year and should be the focus (no pun intended) in learning good photography. The digital darkroom is more of an advanced topic one develops skills for after gaining a better understanding of these fundamentals. Though its still good to have a decent photo editing tool and Lightroom is probably a good place to start.

[tammyw]

Yes, this is a great place to start. Then follow-up with "Understanding Composition." Quite honestly both of these subjects could cover a first year and should be the focus (no pun intended) in learning good photography. The digital darkroom is more of an advanced topic one develops skills for after gaining a better understanding of these fundamentals. Though its still good to have a decent photo editing tool and Lightroom is probably a good place to start.

 

Yep, totally agree. When I first responded to this question, I was simply responding to the LR or PS question, but really neither are a necessary place to start (though if you want to start with someplace that will carry you through, I still say LR is best for a beginner.)

 

At the beginning stages, I'd agree with Derek that editing is not a priority. After all, you really should only be editing a good picture to enhance it. Well, at least that's my opinion. So that means you have to learn to take a great picture SOOC (straight out of the camera) first. Once you master that, THEN you can go on to learning how to enhance it with LR and PS. It's a great journey, and I think you will find that for someone who is passionate, the learning never ends.

 

The good news is there are SO many great books, forums, etc. out there. For someone new to learning photography, there are a million resources, and you can pick and choose what looks best for you. But start at the beginning. I promise you won't regret it!

[tammyw]

Like Tammy I'm really into photography as a hobby as well. Consequently I started all our dc out early with their own little cameras. Photoshop is really one of the *last* things to learn IMO. Exposure will be first as Tammy mentioned which includes learning how read the light using the camera's light meter. Then learn to set the proper exposure vs. leaving the camera in auto (dummy) mode. Next is Composition. These are the fundamentals of good photography which haven't changed since its very beginning. To set exposure will require a camera with *manual* controls. If you want RAW then that will also be important when looking into which camera to buy. Your standard point and shoot will not take you very far without at least some manual options. And these manual settings shouldn't be a royal pain to set either (e.g. going through too many menus). Then consider using a tripod which really helps minimize blur as well as allows for longer exposures (see ds11 below).

 

I use photoshop exclusively so I can't really compare with Lightroom except that I would not be able to use layers, masking, intelligent selection or other advanced features. And I use these things all the time. But for a beginner that probably isn't necessary. Here is a chart comparing the feature differences: http://www.adobe.com...comparison.html

 

Here are some shots of my son who is a budding shutterbug. He's been shooting in manual mode with tripods since he was 9 y/o and with point and shoots since 5. But I haven't felt the need to teach him Photoshop yet. The only thing he has really needed it for has been for extreme dynamic range conditions in which two or more exposures can be used to capture the full range of light. This take Photoshop to belnd multiple exposures - see last photo as an example.

 

 

 

 

Multiple exposures for night photography:

 

 

Love that last image, Derek! That is so great that your 9yo has taken a love of it also. My ds6 seems more interested than my dd10, but I told them I'm here if they ever decide to want to really learn.

 

Do you have a Flickr account?

[dereksurfs]

Love that last image, Derek! That is so great that your 9yo has taken a love of it also. My ds6 seems more interested than my dd10, but I told them I'm here if they ever decide to want to really learn.

 

Do you have a Flickr account?

 

Thanks, Tammy. I've been more intrigued with night photography over the years. That last one shot near our home in Big Sur won a photo of the year contest. ;) I do use Flickr in a limited way. But I use Smugmug as my main gallery site since it offers much more in terms of storage an other features. You can see it here - http://landandseaphoto.smugmug.com.

 

And here is my ds11's gallery which he is just starting to post to more: http://landandseaphoto.smugmug.com/LukeSedilloPhotography

 

I Used to live in SoCal also BTW and then moved to CO where I enjoyed a lot of mountain landscape photography. Later we moved back to the Central Coast where I find the best of both worlds now.

 

Here's one from SoCal in Palos Verdes you may enjoy:

 

[tammyw]

Thanks, Tammy. I've been more intrigued with night photography over the years. That last one shot near our home in Big Sur won a photo of the year contest. ;) I do use Flickr in a limited way. But I use Smugmug as my main gallery site since it offers much more in terms of storage an other features. You can see it here - http://landandseaphoto.smugmug.com.

 

And here is my ds11's gallery which he is just starting to post to more: http://landandseapho...illoPhotography

 

I Used to live in SoCal also BTW and then moved to CO where I enjoyed a lot of mountain landscape photography. Later we moved back to the Central Coast where I find the best of both worlds now.

 

Here's one from SoCal in Palos Verdes you may enjoy:

 

 

That's a great (and unique) composition for star trails. I don't usually see that. Very cool. Long night exposures is something I have yet to try, though I'm intrigued.

[PeterPan]

Ok, just to offer an alternate opinion, I'll throw out that, while what they described is how *adults* learn and how I'm teaching my own dd, that *doesn't* reflect how high schools are teaching photography. Spend some time googling high school photography classes. I did, and by and large they're all teaching film, then digital, composition, and PS. Some get good results, some not so good. I'm not saying that's the way I would teach, but it's what they're doing.

 

Also, even in an adult-oriented Shooting 101 type class (of short duration like a month, not a semester), they still have the students shoot jpeg, because they want the student to get the satisfaction of having something that looks decent, with no fiddling, right from the get go. I suggest if it bugs you, should jpeg plus RAW. If it's not a dSLR, well then you're probably shooting jpeg. And my *assumption* is that some of the high school photography classes are editing jpegs in PS and never even cover RAW editing. It's really a different beast and rather tedious to some people.

 

LR is not something you as a mom are just going to pick up, hand the kid, and have him start using. The ONLY way it's going to get used is if you get him a class. (or know it yourself) Just sayin'. So I'd be very REALISTIC about what you're expecting to happen. If in your first year you want to spend the whole year with a p&s and do composition and pull it into PS Elements (using online tuts) and use the assignments list from Desert Oasis or whatever you like, that can be really good. That might be REALISTIC. If you're going to get a CLASS, then you use what the CLASS says. And if you're going to teach him yourself, then you use what you know.

 

That's realistic. Something done is better than awesome software that just gets looked at. Now if your question is how to get those done and move from fiddling with LR or PS to using it, that's a different question. :)

 

PS. Check out this interview with Joey Lawrence. The guy is 23, doing awesome work, and learned only on digital. I definitely think the high school syllabi we're seeing are outdated and that another method (like what the others described) is better and within reach. It's only a matter of what you can actually make happen. http://fstoppers.com...h-joey-lawrence

[PeterPan]

BTW, there is a way to do HDR using LR, but you still end up going to PS. You do the basic edits of your images in LR, select, r-click and select merge to HDR in CS6, shizam it takes you over, and when they're done they shoop back to LR. It's really no big deal. LR keeps adding features, so it now has curves and a much more powerful adjustment brush feature than people expect. Most people usually find a balance of what they like to do in LR and what they haul over into PS to do. It's really personal, and no two people seem to edit alike. :)

[Lanny]

Free alternative to Adobe Photoshop is "GIMP". Like Photoshop, it has a long learning curve and is extremely powerful.

 

We have a basic point and shoot camera. I found this thread very interesting.

[tammyw]

Ok, just to offer an alternate opinion, I'll throw out that, while what they described is how *adults* learn and how I'm teaching my own dd, that *doesn't* reflect how high schools are teaching photography. Spend some time googling high school photography classes. I did, and by and large they're all teaching film, then digital, composition, and PS. Some get good results, some not so good. I'm not saying that's the way I would teach, but it's what they're doing.

 

Also, even in an adult-oriented Shooting 101 type class (of short duration like a month, not a semester), they still have the students shoot jpeg, because they want the student to get the satisfaction of having something that looks decent, with no fiddling, right from the get go. I suggest if it bugs you, should jpeg plus RAW. If it's not a dSLR, well then you're probably shooting jpeg. And my *assumption* is that some of the high school photography classes are editing jpegs in PS and never even cover RAW editing. It's really a different beast and rather tedious to some people.

 

LR is not something you as a mom are just going to pick up, hand the kid, and have him start using. The ONLY way it's going to get used is if you get him a class. (or know it yourself) Just sayin'. So I'd be very REALISTIC about what you're expecting to happen. If in your first year you want to spend the whole year with a p&s and do composition and pull it into PS Elements (using online tuts) and use the assignments list from Desert Oasis or whatever you like, that can be really good. That might be REALISTIC. If you're going to get a CLASS, then you use what the CLASS says. And if you're going to teach him yourself, then you use what you know.

 

That's realistic. Something done is better than awesome software that just gets looked at. Now if your question is how to get those done and move from fiddling with LR or PS to using it, that's a different question. :)

 

PS. Check out this interview with Joey Lawrence. The guy is 23, doing awesome work, and learned only on digital. I definitely think the high school syllabi we're seeing are outdated and that another method (like what the others described) is better and within reach. It's only a matter of what you can actually make happen. http://fstoppers.com...h-joey-lawrence

 

All very good points! I don't think there is any ONE right way.

 

I took a one-day workshop from Joey Lawrence several years ago - he's really pretty amazing, and so inspirational.

 

There are just so many great and unique photographers out there, and it's fascinating to see everyone's point of view. I also love looking at older photography books.

[PeterPan]

Free alternative to Adobe Photoshop is "GIMP". Like Photoshop, it has a long learning curve and is extremely powerful.

 

We have a basic point and shoot camera. I found this thread very interesting.

 

GIMP is cool for a beginner or scrapbooking, but once someone says they're doing a high school photography class, they really should be learning PS or LR. You can't go to a college and do GIMP. LR/PS is the springboard to learn all the upper level skills. Besides, Adobe gives an educator discount, making LR or PSE (Elements) quite affordable ($60-70). If you buy a Wacom bamboo tablet, it will come with PSE.

[jg_puppy]

I agree with the previous posters to start with Lightroom. If you have the funds to get Lightroom and Photoshop Elements that would be great. I would wait on the full version of Photoshop. If you decide to go ahead and get the full version of Photoshop then I would suggest checking out some of the classes at Creative Live. They had a Photoshop week last week and had many really good Photoshop classes for photographers.

 

Janet

[PeterPan]

They're rebroadcasting Photoshop Week again this week on Creative Live!!! Love Creative Live. :001_wub:

[tammyw]

They're rebroadcasting Photoshop Week again this week on Creative Live!!! Love Creative Live. :001_wub:

 

Me too! I only wish I had more time to watch!

[tammyw]

 

Me too! I only wish I had more time to watch!

 

I've often thought it would be fun to start a TWTM Photography group :)

[StinkyDaddy]

I'm a working artist/photographer and I can tell you that I use LR for every image I shoot. I use PS for more heavy handed editing/photo manipulation. LR is great for managing your entire body of images. There are plenty of tutorials on both LR and PS on youtube.

 

For reading I'd reccommend Photography, by London and Upton it's the text used to prepare for professional certification. Get a newer edition as the older ones do not cover digital.

[Lori D.]

Free alternative to Adobe Photoshop is "GIMP"

 

 

DH has gotten really into photography, and started with GIMP. It was a great starting point for post production work for him. After mastering/using GIMP for about 2 years, he has moved on to Light Room in the last year.

[Hen]

Derek,

 

you mentioned you are using the smug mug gallery, do you use them for prints, too? I am looking for a lab and having a hard time deciding. From all my looking around, it looked like with smug mug, you got a better lab if you paid more and did the professional memberships, but not with the basic. What has been your experience there?

 

for the OP, I use photoshop elements. I am self-taught with books and video tutorials, though I'd like to take a class sometime. I have played with lightroom, but the normal things I do with PS elements don't seem to be part of lightroom, I'd be frustrated, but I think lightroom is very easy to use and would be a good place to start.

[PeterPan]

 

I've often thought it would be fun to start a TWTM Photography group :)

 

I've been thinking we should make a group (yahoo, FB, whatever) for our kids doing their work. Then they could share and give each other constructive criticism. Giving it and receiving it is always good. Any thoughts on that?

 

I'm a working artist/photographer and I can tell you that I use LR for every image I shoot. I use PS for more heavy handed editing/photo manipulation. LR is great for managing your entire body of images. There are plenty of tutorials on both LR and PS on youtube.

 

For reading I'd reccommend Photography, by London and Upton it's the text used to prepare for professional certification. Get a newer edition as the older ones do not cover digital.

 

Interesting! I got a copy of one of the London texts from the library. Just haven't had a chance to pursue it farther. There seemed to be several, and like you say I wasn't sure of the differences in editions. Makes sense though to go newer.

 

You know the other curious thing, and this is just my two cents, not authoritative, is it seems like gender plays a roll in editing. The women's board I hang out on has VERY different editing trends from the man work I see.

 

For me personally, and this is just a total aside, I got to a point with my LR work where I couldn't tell if it was PS that I needed or something different like filters. I took an advanced PS class, learned all sorts of things, but there's always just been something *more* I wanted. But I don't really understand filters enough and haven't taken the plunge, except for the UV filter on my Tokina 11-16 that I bought on the recommendation of a popular idiot review site. I didn't know the guy was an idiot at the time (or maybe you're he? Oh, you edit, can't be him.). Sigh. So somewhere in that whole thing I got so befuddled that I never broke through. One day I'll get all these things done, lol. With the RGB curves in LR4, you can do a lot that you were previously going to PS for. You can turn on clipping masks in LR for your blacks, etc. But you don't have multiply and whatnot. It's just that I'm not sure things like multiply are a substitute for *filters*.

 

 

 

DH has gotten really into photography, and started with GIMP. It was a great starting point for post production work for him. After mastering/using GIMP for about 2 years, he has moved on to Light Room in the last year.

 

Speaking of springboards, I didn't even realize how much overlap there is in software. My dd has been fiddling with imovie lately, and it uses some of the same controls as you're used to in LR (and I suppose GIMP). So learning one thing definitely helps you carry over to the next.

 

One of the benefits of the better software, when you're shooting RAW, is the engine that's built into it that's doing work you're NOT perceiving. If you google LR3 vs. LR4, you'll find youtube comparisons (or maybe I saw it on Lynda.com?) where they show the same image of a white SUV being edited in LR3 and LR4. There was significantly less clipping in LR4 and less overall editing to do, because the engine was more powerful and doing more for you. So that's where you don't want to bog down a beginner in tedious editing. If you want to use a point and shoot (p&s) and just focus on composition for a year with basic PSE type edits, that's FINE. RAW will be there when the student is ready.

[PeterPan]

Derek,

 

you mentioned you are using the smug mug gallery, do you use them for prints, too? I am looking for a lab and having a hard time deciding. From all my looking around, it looked like with smug mug, you got a better lab if you paid more and did the professional memberships, but not with the basic. What has been your experience there?

 

for the OP, I use photoshop elements. I am self-taught with books and video tutorials, though I'd like to take a class sometime. I have played with lightroom, but the normal things I do with PS elements don't seem to be part of lightroom, I'd be frustrated, but I think lightroom is very easy to use and would be a good place to start.

 

Hen, what are you wanting to do with PSE that you're not seeing in LR? You don't even have curves in PSE, but of course you have layers, multiply, and other things. Are you using ACR before you pull the pic into PSE?

[dereksurfs]

I agree that there is more than one way to learn and enjoy hearing everyone's input, experiences and perspectives. Most times where one starts depends on where the individual is currently at. For a standard intro to Photography 101 they typically have to assume the student may not have any experience whatsoever. Though today with digitial cameras built into cell phones and tablets it pretty rare folks haven't snapped some pictures somewhere. And even before digital most folks had there own little p&s film cameras.

 

For me photography is very much an art as well as a science. I learn best by doing and observing. I love looking at beautiful photographs and determining what makes them come alive or have great impact. This is where the *art* aspect comes which includes composition, color, mood conveyed, use of light, a subject, a story being told, etc...

 

Then there is the technical side, the camera and its use of light. What does the lens do and how does shutter and aperture effect final exposure? The digital darkroom is the last step in *making* the image. This encorporates art and technology. And it really could be a class or many classes in themselves. But I guess in a year long HS course it could be included along with some basics. I would definately not make it a first stop however. Digital or film has nothing to with it really. Post processing is simply adding the finishing touches to a photograph whether film or digital. In the film days folks just had their own closet/basement chemical darkrooms to achieve similar effects.

[Lolly]

My dd was 13 when she got Photoshop Elements. She read up on it and found tutorials online. We upgraded her to the "big" Photoshop (educator discount makes it quite cheaper!) a few years later. She has done a fabulous job of teaching herself and can do wonderous things with it. She doesn't have LR and doesn't seem to think she needs it. She is very much self taught with her camera. She has done lessons at a camera store that came with her camera, but she already knew everything they covered. She has also taken an all day class through a university with some big name photographer. She did learn some in it (lighting). Over the years, she has collected quite a bit of equipment as gifts. She has lights, backdrops, tripods, filters, and big reflector things.

[dereksurfs]

Derek,

 

you mentioned you are using the smug mug gallery, do you use them for prints, too? I am looking for a lab and having a hard time deciding. From all my looking around, it looked like with smug mug, you got a better lab if you paid more and did the professional memberships, but not with the basic. What has been your experience there?

 

for the OP, I use photoshop elements. I am self-taught with books and video tutorials, though I'd like to take a class sometime. I have played with lightroom, but the normal things I do with PS elements don't seem to be part of lightroom, I'd be frustrated, but I think lightroom is very easy to use and would be a good place to start.

 

Hen Jen, honestly I don't use SmugMug for printing. I use it for everything else including galleries and full image off-site storage/backup. For those alone it is worth the cost for me. Though there are other good hosting sites as well such as Zenfolio which I've also used.

 

I agree that the better labs require a *Pro* account which I don't have or need really. I have the power account instead and send my work to the same Pro labs myself for the highest quality. My favorite is Bay Photo which has made many excellent prints for me. They do really cool metal prints as well. I highly recommend them for both price and quality.

[dereksurfs]

My dd was 13 when she got Photoshop Elements. She read up on it and found tutorials online. We upgraded her to the "big" Photoshop (educator discount makes it quite cheaper!) a few years later. She has done a fabulous job of teaching herself and can do wonderous things with it. She doesn't have LR and doesn't seem to think she needs it. She is very much self taught with her camera. She has done lessons at a camera store that came with her camera, but she already knew everything they covered. She has also taken an all day class through a university with some big name photographer. She did learn some in it (lighting). Over the years, she has collected quite a bit of equipment as gifts. She has lights, backdrops, tripods, filters, and big reflector things.

 

Please, someone tell me more about the educator's discount! I was unaware of such a beast. It sounds like it could save us a lot of money! How hard was it to qualify? :bigear: :bigear:

[Lori D.]

Please, someone tell me more about the educator's discount! I was unaware of such a beast. It sounds like it could save us a lot of money! How hard was it to qualify? :bigear: :bigear:

 

 

As I recall, when DH purchased Light room, I think all they required a fax or digital file sent in of proof of homeschooling status; I think for us that included the affit davit of intent to homeschool, and the membership card to our homeschool group. DH scanned both and sent them in when filling out the online information... When he gets home later today I'll ask if there was something else to it.

[dereksurfs]

As I recall, when DH purchased Light room, I think all they required a fax or digital file sent in of proof of homeschooling status; I think for us that included the affit davit of intent to homeschool, and the membership card to our homeschool group. DH scanned both and sent them in when filling out the online information... When he gets home later today I'll ask if there was something else to it.

 

 

Great, thanks Lori. This is great news. So are these like Adobe 'student' licences? This means basically that while you cannot upgrade them, they are full versions of the software? Its nice to know they honor homeschoolers as educators which we are. ;)

[PeterPan]

Great, thanks Lori. This is great news. So are these like Adobe 'student' licences? This means basically that while you cannot upgrade them, they are full versions of the software? Its nice to know they honor homeschoolers as educators which we are. ;)

 

 

The price to upgrade the student version is the same as the price to buy it full, so that's what you'll do when the next version comes out. And yes, getting the educator discount is simple. Adobe outsources it to a 3rd party verifying service. They have on their education section a link to the info and options to verify. It's no big deal and just involves faxing or mailing in the info. You can also buy through other places (Academic Superstore) and get the educator discount.

[dereksurfs]

I've often thought it would be fun to start a TWTM Photography group :)

 

 

I really like this idea and OhElizabeth's as well regarding a photography group for the kids to share their ideas and photos as well the parents. For my son it would give him a new avenue to make pals and share things in common. Now if he was able to share pictures of his latest Origami and Lego creations then he would really be in hog heaven. :tongue_smilie:

[PeterPan]

I really like this idea and OhElizabeth's as well regarding a photography group for the kids to share their ideas and photos as well the parents. For my son it would give him a new avenue to make pals and share things in common. Now if he was able to share pictures of his latest Origami and Lego creations then he would really be in hog heaven. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:thumbup: Well where do you propose we have this WTM photog group? FB? Yahoo? Something else? It seems like we have a bunch of kids who are doing photography, and they might enjoy having that venue to share.

[dereksurfs]

:thumbup: Well where do you propose we have this WTM photog group? FB? Yahoo? Something else? It seems like we have a bunch of kids who are doing photography, and they might enjoy having that venue to share.

 

 

I greatly prefer forum formats such as this as opposed to the old newsgroups on Yahoo where you have to wait to see posts and can't directly link in photos. FB may be a good option except for all the garbage adds and potential predators. We don't allow our kids on there yet. The location is the toughest question really. I think the interest would definately be there.

 

It might be nice to have a WTMF 'Kids Corner' where they could converse as we do here. I don't know if the WTMF admins or parents would like this idea though. Some may not feel so open to share knowing their dc may be listening. :tongue_smilie: :willy_nilly: Maybe there could be a way to segregate it based upon age? Like WTMF 18+ and kids corner 6+ or something?

[PeterPan]

I greatly prefer forum formats such as this as opposed to the old newsgroups on Yahoo where you have to wait to see posts and can't directly link in photos. FB may be a good option except for all the garbage adds and potential predators. We don't allow our kids on there yet. The location is the toughest question really. I think the interest would definately be there.

 

It might be nice to have a WTMF 'Kids Corner' where they could converse as we do here. I don't know if the WTMF admins or parents would like this idea though. Some may not feel so open to share knowing their dc may be listening. :tongue_smilie: :willy_nilly: Maybe there could be a way to segregate it based upon age? Like WTMF 18+ and kids corner 6+ or something?

 

I'm on private FB photog groups, and those are fun. As you say, you can just drag your picture over into your post and share. It's actually easier than on a board like this even. But like you, I don't have my dd on FB and don't really WANT to open that can of worms.

 

Well just as a thought, what we could do is have the *parents* join the private FB group and the kids post through their parents' accounts if they don't have their own. Or... I don't know, seems to me unlikely that my rising 9th grader is going to stay off FB FOREVER, kwim? I mean she will be going to college in a few years, lol.

 

Anyways, are you aware of *private* FB groups? What do you think of those?

[dereksurfs]

I'm on private FB photog groups, and those are fun. As you say, you can just drag your picture over into your post and share. It's actually easier than on a board like this even. But like you, I don't have my dd on FB and don't really WANT to open that can of worms.

 

Well just as a thought, what we could do is have the *parents* join the private FB group and the kids post through their parents' accounts if they don't have their own. Or... I don't know, seems to me unlikely that my rising 9th grader is going to stay off FB FOREVER, kwim? I mean she will be going to college in a few years, lol.

 

Anyways, are you aware of *private* FB groups? What do you think of those?

 

I think so. Do you mean like the WTM group on FB?

 

Yes, I know what you mean about your dd13. Obviously there will come a time when teens will want to join their friends on FB, Twitter and other social networking sites. For us we probably will lean more toward later rather than earlier approach kinda like dating, etc... :tongue_smilie: That's not to say if you shouldn't start one there, just that we probably wouldn't join for a while, kwim?

 

A forum like this would be ideal, but that takes a host, time to setup and money unless there is something else already out there. I wonder if the WTM admins would consider it here as a private group for registered members? Something like this is what I had in mind: http://www.teenhomeschoolhang.org/

 

Wait... I think there may be free forum hosts. I just found a few surfing around. Take a look and tell me what you think:

http://www.makeforum.org/

http://www.invisionfree.com/

http://www.forumotion.com/

http://www.proboards.com/free-forum

[PeterPan]

 

Wait... I think there may be free forum hosts. I just found a few surfing around. Take a look and tell me what you think:

 

 

 

I think I don't have time. Simple is all I can handle right now. :)

[dereksurfs]

I think I don't have time. Simple is all I can handle right now. :)

 

 

Yeah, I hear you. Oh well, I still *really* like your idea. Maybe you could start on FB and see where it goes from there? What are your thoughts about this forum? Its just so funny that we have all these great families interacting with many fun, interesting kids I'm sure. But do you think it would be frowned upon to have 'kids' here too, even if in their own area? Maybe it would loose something if that happened?

 

I know some parents have found pen pals for their kids through other parents here. So I'm pretty sure we could find other kids interested in a variety of topics like photography, origami, legos, robotics, programming, etc...

[dereksurfs]

I've used hyperboards.com as a free forum for a different photography sharing group, so we could have a private place to share photography in a format that works better for some (like me) who don't find FB to work very well for discussions.

 

Oh, and to weigh in, I'm another vote for Lightroom. There's plenty out there to self teach LR. Just having him work through Scott Kelby's book would get him well on his way.

 

That sounds good kandbp. This looks similar to some of the other sites I listed above. They look pretty easy to setup. How much work was it would you say? How are the ads and are they annoying? Any other gotchas? I agree regarding preferring the forum model for discussions.

 

Anyone's thoughts on proposing a photography sharing area on the WTMF? We have such a great and rather large community here. I am just thinking of ways to make it easy for parents to help their kids connect with others who have common interests in fun ways.

 

BTW, maybe this should be its own thread under Site News and Discussions or General Ed.

 

Ok, a new thread discussing this has been created here: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/457266-wtm-kids-educational-forum-what-are-your-thoughts/

[PeterPan]

Here, I made a board on that hyperboards site. Haven't fiddled around with it yet to see how it configures or anything, but at least it's something to get us started. Hopefully you don't hate the name.

 

http://welltrainedph...hyperboards.com

 

What I'm trying to figure out now is whether it has any privacy features. If it doesn't, I'm not sure I'm comfortable. But we can fiddle with it and see what the options are.

[PeterPan]

I'm back. I'm still fiddling with it, but it looks like we can get a good measure of privacy. I'm working on it now. I don't have forever to give, but it's at least a diversion. Hopefully I'll have it set up soon. If you hate the name, turns out we can change it.

[dereksurfs]

Wow Elizabeth, you're quick. Thanks for working on this. This looks like its got some great potential for our kids to share idea, their photos, etc... with each other. I think the privacy options will really help parents feel safer with it, maybe a private group if possible.

 

I posted a question on both General Ed. and Site News and Discussions sub forums. But I posed it to address a wider scope which might include a number of kids' areas of interests including photography. The Admins haven't responded yet or posted it and may not like the idea. So we'll see here. WendyK thought having it here might make parents less inclined to share.

[PeterPan]

Sorry, haven't even made it over to your other thread. It takes a while for board changes to be made, and there's usually their logic behind it. Also, there are issues that involves. I think privacy is important, and I think there are issues with who owns content on this forum. If we have our own forum, we own our own content, no issues there.

 

I'm working now to see how private I can get it in the settings. It's pretty straightforward so far. Kandbp, can you share how your other groups you've been in work over there? I can't seem to find a setting where the user requests and has to submit something like with yahoo. It's just automatically approved. I found where I can keep it out of their directory, and I found where I can disable the auto-approve entirely. Then we could pump them back to a thread here on the forums with the screen it would show. That way we could approve people individually, knowing who they are. That would address the privacy concern. But if there's a better way, definitely tell me.

[TechWife]

For reading I'd reccommend Photography, by London and Upton it's the text used to prepare for professional certification. Get a newer edition as the older ones do not cover digital.

 

The 11th edition is due out later this week. Is the edition with MyArtsLab with etext Access Card Package worth the extra $26, or would the book alone suffice?

[TechWife]

I've been thinking we should make a group (yahoo, FB, whatever) for our kids doing their work. Then they could share and give each other constructive criticism. Giving it and receiving it is always good. Any thoughts on that?

 

Excellent idea!

[PeterPan]

Excellent idea!

 

 

Well it's no longer just an idea! We now have our own discussion forum, just for homeschooling with photography!!

 

http://welltrainedphotogs.hyperboards.com/action/register

 

 

You're not going to see much at that link, because everything is uber-private. Just register, do what it says about emailing the admin, and you'll be in. Also your ds can have an account. That way he can post in the teen sections and get feedback on his work. :)