College Boards AP Report to the Nation is out

[Nscribe]

You can go to :

http://apreport.collegeboard.org/download-press-center

 

I tend to scroll down on the page a little bit and look at the state and subject specific reports.

[FaithManor]

Thanks for posting.

 

No wonder we are having a dickens of a time finding a testing location for ds to take the computer science A exam. Only 19,000 kids took it last year! Let's just say that of that small number, Michigan was not heavily represented.

 

Sigh...

 

Living in no-where-ville USA,

Faith

[Nscribe]

I keep saying .... in each state they need one site (maybe the flagship university) where every exam is offered and you can register to sit for it online. It really isn't just homeschoolers hit by the finding a site issues, kids in urban ap blight areas, kids in rural areas, kids in low pop states.

[Luckymama]

Oh my gosh, only 47 kids in my state took Comp Science A last year :lol: I think two schools offered it. 64% "passed."

 

I hope those two schools are open to homeschoolers if dd stays home for high school as they are also the only two that offer both Physics C exams! Ds graduated from one of the two schools...

[G5052]

Thanks for posting.

 

No wonder we are having a dickens of a time finding a testing location for ds to take the computer science A exam. Only 19,000 kids took it last year! Let's just say that of that small number, Michigan was not heavily represented.

 

Sigh...

 

Living in no-where-ville USA,

Faith

 

But look at the Latin AP. Only 3400+ total. In my area, thankfully it isn't too hard to find a place to take it though. In my home state *no one* took it.

[Luckymama]

 

 

But look at the Latin AP. Only 3400+. In my area, thankfully it isn't too hard to find a place to take it though.

 

21 kids in our state. That would be at my son's alma mater. 82% of those passed. Their teacher was probably very pleased :)

 

I'm enjoying reading our state's stats :D

[Barbara H]

I keep saying .... in each state they need one site (maybe the flagship university) where every exam is offered and you can register to sit for it online. It really isn't just homeschoolers hit by the finding a site issues, kids in urban ap blight areas, kids in rural areas, kids in low pop states.

 

 

I like this idea. Also, I think it would be good to consider compelling some of the larger districts to, at a minimum, offer the regular APs tests that don't require listening or additional equipment. So, maybe the district only teaches a world history course. But, if macroeconomics test is scheduled for the same morning it is really not more work to offer that exam as well. We were able to test at a small private school and it was really not a big deal for them to order the macroeconomics test too.

[Nan in Mass]

Hmmm... When they showed the number of students who took AP classes compared to the number who scored a three or better, they used a graphing method that pretty much made it impossible to judge the percentages at a glance (circle within a circle) but when they showed more favorable statistics, they used a type of graph that made the difference obvious.

 

Nan

[Arcadia]

Hmmm... When they showed the number of students who took AP classes compared to the number who scored a three or better, they used a graphing method that pretty much made it impossible to judge the percentages at a glance (circle within a circle) but when they showed more favorable statistics, they used a type of graph that made the difference obvious.

 

I found the graphs confusing when I looked at the report for California and the subject reports. It was easier to look at the data instead of the graphs.

But look at the Latin AP. Only 3400+ total. In my area, thankfully it isn't too hard to find a place to take it though. In my home state *no one* took it.

 

I wonder what percentage of Latin AP test-takers are homeschoolers?

[brownie]

What I want to know is how performance on the AP tests is trending over the years. I keep reading reports that with the uptick in kids taking the classes, they classes are trending toward just being a cram fest for the exam and kids aren't learning to "think". With more kids taking AP than 20 years ago, I wonder if average scores have fallen accordingly. Or perhaps the tests have gotten easier? :) I've also heard that colleges are raising the standards for credit. This has all come from books but no stats have been provided on anything to do with AP. Our high school must offer about 15 AP classes. That includes AP comp sci which they also offered 20 years ago. Brownie

[Laura in CA]

Wow, that IS interesting! Over 13,000 students took Calc BC in California last year, and in Arkansas ... 217 ?!?!? The difference in population is not that great .... (I meant to click on Arizona, where my husband is from, but accidentally chose Arkansas .... Arizona had only 1,151 ...)

 

We had no trouble finding Comp Sci A (but I know others in CA who did), but Comp GOV ... that was tough but doable, given that we're in a major metropolitan area, so a bit of a drive, but it worked out, especially since it was an AFTERNOON test, haha.

 

Thank you for posting the link.

[Library Momma]

Does it mention what grades the students are in anywhere? Am I missing it on this report?

I keep saying .... in each state they need one site (maybe the flagship university) where every exam is offered and you can register to sit for it online. It really isn't just homeschoolers hit by the finding a site issues, kids in urban ap blight areas, kids in rural areas, kids in low pop states.

 

Seems like a great opportunity for small colleges to do some marketing -- I'd much rather small colleges invest a bit of money in proctoring AP tests than the deluge of mail they send. And you'd get to visit their campus in person.

[Luckymama]

Does it mention what grades the students are in anywhere? Am I missing it on this report?

 

 

I know I've seen grade-by-grade information in the past. Maybe it's somewhere on the website vs the Report to the Nation...

[Corraleno]

I think it's important to keep in mind that these state reports do NOT cover private schools or home schools, and do NOT represent everyone who took those tests in 2012 — just those tests taken in the past 4 years by PS kids in the graduating class of 2012. The results are still pretty abysmal for many states, but at least they don't reflect ALL the students in those states. I would love to see a separate report for just homeschoolers!

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Does it mention what grades the students are in anywhere? Am I missing it on this report?

 

If you click on the individual subject reports, there is a bar graph showing the grades in which the tests were taken. Again, though, these reports are ONLY for PS students, and ONLY reflect the exams taken by students who graduated in 2012, NOT all students who took the exam in 2012.

 

Jackie

[snowbeltmom]

I think it's important to keep in mind that these state reports do NOT cover private schools or home schools, and do NOT represent everyone who took those tests in 2012 — just those tests taken in the past 4 years by PS kids in the graduating class of 2012. The results are still pretty abysmal for many states, but at least they don't reflect ALL the students in those states. I would love to see a separate report for just homeschoolers!

 

Jackie

I did not read the data closely enough to realize that this report only includes public schooled kids. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

This reason the College Board provides for excluding private schools is as follows:

"Because reliable demographic data for nonpublic schools are not available for all states, this report represents public school students only"

 

I don't understand why the demographic data for some private schools is unreliable. It does not seem like it should be that difficult for the CB to collect reliable data from private schools if the CB is capable of collecting reliable data from the public schools. :confused:

 

I wonder if there is not more to why the private schools are not included in the data. Is it possible that the private schooled students outperform the public schooled students by an embarrassing margin?

[Library Momma]

If you click on the individual subject reports, there is a bar graph showing the grades in which the tests were taken. Again, though, these reports are ONLY for PS students, and ONLY reflect the exams taken by students who graduated in 2012, NOT all students who took the exam in 2012.

 

Jackie

 

Yes, Thank you! There it is.

[Arcadia]

I don't understand why the demographic data for some private schools is unreliable. It does not seem like it should be that difficult for the CB to collect reliable data from private schools if the CB is capable of collecting reliable data from the public schools. :confused:

 

Public schools here collect data every year about family income, ethnicity/race and parents level of education which is included in the state's standardized test reports. While I can always choose "do not wish to disclose", I usually oblige and give the correct information. Private schools have never ask us for that kind of information because the schools do not receive Title One funding and do not need to do state standardized test.

[snowbeltmom]

Public schools here collect data every year about family income, ethnicity/race and parents level of education which is included in the state's standardized test reports. While I can always choose "do not wish to disclose", I usually oblige and give the correct information. Private schools have never ask us for that kind of information because the schools do not receive Title One funding and do not need to do state standardized test.

 

Thanks. That makes sense.

 

It would be interesting if the CB would include all AP Test results in its over-all data statistics, though.

 

It would also be interesting to see a break-down comparing public schooled student results and private schooled student results. Perhaps that information would force the politicians driving school reform in the public schools to admit that teaching to the test is resulting in a further widening of the achievement gap between the private and public schooled students.

[G5052]

I think it's important to keep in mind that these state reports do NOT cover private schools or home schools, and do NOT represent everyone who took those tests in 2012 — just those tests taken in the past 4 years by PS kids in the graduating class of 2012. The results are still pretty abysmal for many states, but at least they don't reflect ALL the students in those states. I would love to see a separate report for just homeschoolers!

 

Jackie

 

 

I'm glad you pointed that out. The numbers didn't seem quite right to me, but if they are only public schools, that is a different matter.

 

Locally the public high schools offer Latin, but only offer AP Latin via the state virtual academy. When a friend of mine asked about it, she was told that they hadn't had a student who got that far in years. That said, they are willing to offer the Latin AP to homeschoolers if you give them enough notice. They are pretty homeschool-friendly as long as you don't ask them to accept homeschool credits ;). They won't go that far.

 

In contrast, the classical and Catholic schools all offer AP Latin every year. And I know of a few homeschool families with students who got that far.

[Arcadia]

It would be interesting if the CB would include all AP Test results in its over-all data statistics, though.

 

It would also be interesting to see a break-down comparing public schooled student results and private schooled student results. Perhaps that information would force the politicians driving school reform in the public schools to admit that teaching to the test is resulting in a further widening of the achievement gap between the private and public schooled students.

 

 

I do think it would be interesting to have the overall data statistics and I can crunch my own numbers from there.

 

I do not think that would be a fair comparison and anywhere helpful especially in my part of town. The private high schools do teach to the tests too just that they have the money to spend on enrichment. After all parents who send their kids to private high schools are also looking at the AP scores of the students in the schools as well as the students performance in things like Intel Science Talent Search, National Merit Scholarship Program

 

This is quoted from a school's website

"Harker has been named a College Board Exemplary Advanced Placement (AP) Program worldwide in the medium-sized school category for AP Psychology (2007), AP Calculus AB and AP Chemistry (2006), and AP Chemistry and AP Computer Science (2005).".

 

For example, these are the tution fees for the private high schools near me

North Valley Baptist Church $3,500 (non-profit)

St Lawrence Academy $14,520

Kings Academy $14,850

Valley Christian School $15,268

Sierra School $15,500

Archbishop Mitty High School $15,650

Notre Dame High School $15,675

Bellarmine College Prep $16,770

Harker $37,500

 

Most private schools also have very financially strong PTAs. Take a look at this quote from one of the most expensive high schools here

"Harker has been named the American Heart Association’s top fundraising school, and the student body was named the Outstanding Philanthropic Youth Group by the Association of Fundraising Professionals."

[Luckymama]

Huh. I had no idea the report only counted public schools. Where is the data with private schools?

 

There are more private high schools in my county than public schools.

[snowbeltmom]

I do think it would be interesting to have the overall data statistics and I can crunch my own numbers from there.

 

I do not think that would be a fair comparison and anywhere helpful especially in my part of town. The private high schools do teach to the tests too just that they have the money to spend on enrichment. After all parents who send their kids to private high schools are also looking at the AP scores of the students in the schools as well as the students performance in things like Intel Science Talent Search, National Merit Scholarship Program

 

This is quoted from a school's website

"Harker has been named a College Board Exemplary Advanced Placement (AP) Program worldwide in the medium-sized school category for AP Psychology (2007), AP Calculus AB and AP Chemistry (2006), and AP Chemistry and AP Computer Science (2005).".

 

 

Most private schools also have very financially strong PTAs. Take a look at this quote from one of the most expensive high schools here

"Harker has been named the American Heart Association’s top fundraising school, and the student body was named the Outstanding Philanthropic Youth Group by the Association of Fundraising Professionals."

 

I agree that parental involvement makes a difference in a child's educational outcome. However, the parents at my public school are very involved in their children's educations, yet the yearly ACT/SAT test results are way behind those of the private schools in my area. Sadly, many parents in my district remove their kids from our public schools and place their kids in private schools because the education is simply better.

 

The education is not better at the private schools because the parents are paying a huge tuition bill or the PTA is strong. The education is better because the private schools are not strangled by the mandates of NCLB and now the Common Core imposed by our politicians on our public schools.

 

Teachers start "teaching to the test" in K in our public schools. The private schools are exempt from these tests and the teachers are actually able to spend their days teaching their students rather than prepping them for the low level tests. Our local high school has actually reduced the school day by 30 minutes so the teachers have more administrative time to figure out how they are going to comply with the Common Core Standards. It makes absolutely no sense that kids have less educational time so the teachers can figure out how to evaluate the students and themselves.

 

The politicians need to look at why the private schools are successful and implement that model in the public school system and stop testing the kids to death and destroying the love of learning.

 

More money does not equal a better education. Homeschooling proves that.

[Arcadia]

The politicians need to look at why the private schools are successful and implement that model in the public school system and stop testing the kids to death and destroying the love of learning.

 

More money does not equal a better education. Homeschooling proves that.

 

My reply was with regards to comparing private schools to public schools for California and why it wouldn't be really useful data in terms of school reforms.

 

Private schools here do administer the SAT-10 tests to the students every year because parents want to see results. I do not know if every single private school here does standardized tests of one kind or another but the schools we look at all had SAT-10 results for parents to look at. There is some teaching to the test even in private schools which was why we decided no to go that path for our kids.

 

Also when private schools are short on cash, they are able to layoff the subject teachers that they cannot afford to hire. For public schools retrenchment goes by least seniority overall.

 

Another factor is there is school choice. With private schools, we can pick the one whose school culture is most closely aligned with what we want for our children. As a "customer" we could take our kids out if the school culture changes in a way we don't agree with. With public schools, we were re-zoned and while there is open enrolment, we decided we have enough of money mismanagement and other nonsense from our school district and went with virtual academy. If the VA no longer meet our children's needs, we would be going private or homeschooling. A friend pull his daughter out of public high school for bullying. HIs daughter did badly in the virtual academy as she is not an independent kind of student. Now she is back in the assigned high school and being bullied again. The school district would not transfer her to another high school despite police reports.

 

We had a neighborhood party recently and plenty of parents in public school were not aware that common core is being implemented this fall for our school district. Emails were sent out but not every parent on the mailing list read. The information is posted on the school district website but almost nobody reads.

 

I have also never heard of parents complaining about grade inflation in private schools. But have heard of that from parents with children in public schools. Children need to know how well they are really doing instead of pandering to the self-esteem philosophy.

 

I believe that school reform needs to start from the grounds up, by moderate parents who do not spew rhetoric. I won't rely on even my school board members to do what is best for the children. I have even less faith in the politicians (state or federal).

 

Sorry for writing such a long response to your question. However thinking of school reform even at district level is a lot of data mining, sieving through information to separate the facts and the fallacies and presenting the information in a form that other concerned people are able to understand instead of not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

ETA:

I just read this article "Jumping out of the rat race: AP classes, rankings, testing and college admissions" and it talks about school reforms with regards to standardized testing. I have not read the materials linked in the endnotes.