I've read about Waldorf over the years, but...

[Sahamamama]

... I don't really understand it. Why the gnomes?

 

If you understand and/or use Waldorf, please explain it to me.

[Walking-Iris]

Waldorf has a strong storytelling focus. A strong focus on fairy story and myth. So the gnomes and fairies etc aren't really *necessary* to *do* Waldorf, they are just an element added to bring story to a subject, particularly math. Instead of plain jane teaching math (or ABCs/phonics) Waldorfians ?? will tell a story about the math operations, or tell a story about the letters and learn their shape in an artistic way. (M looks like a mountain for example) The book LMNOP is a good Waldorf ABC book to get the general idea. It's a fun ABC book no matter what you do actually. ;)

 

Waldorf imho is sort of a spectrum. You'll have hardcore Waldorf people who don't allow any technology at all, are very very very particular about their children's toys (natural organic wool everything, beeswaxed natural wood etc), only read fairy tales, don't actively try to teach reading in early grades, focus on prescribed art activities. They can be sort of pseudo-spiritualized in the way they feel about the "incarnating child" and the cycle of the seasons and nature.

 

Some people (I'm sort of one of these) like certain aspects of Waldorf ideas. I like the art activities (except the psychedelic impressionist watercoloring and chalk paintings---makes me feel nauseous). But I like the emphasis on art and the emphasis on nature study. I like some of the parenting philosophy behind Waldorf. Surrounding children with quality beautiful things and downplaying technology. Although I would be a bad candidate for Waldorf because I'm cool with my kids watching some television and doing things on the computer, and I don't mind if they play with a plastic lalaloopsy doll over a true Waldorf doll.

 

The best way to get a feel for Waldorf methods and philosophy is to read You Are Your Child's First Teacher, browse on Enki or Oak Meadow websites, or to read Waldorf websites.

 

http://www.whywaldor...ldorf/index.asp

[Ecclecticmum]

Donna (Christopherus) uses squirrels if thats any difference (LOL) she too, had enough of gnomes ;)

 

And I'm probably one of those heading down the road to what WI calls spiritual hardcore, although I will never absolutely hit that wall, because I don't believe in cutting everything off in its entirety (unless our family were in a situation where that would be fine) but more that each family is different and what you need to look at is limiting and moderating certain acitivities as much as possible, and if you can, cutting/quitting other activities, and preferably delaying them for a long distance down the road.

 

Heres a very small excerpt of something I posted elsewhere (i've altered it quite a bit (deleted all the personal info, so its now just a booklist), but it leaves the info you want intact)

 

Basics: You are your child's first teacher.

 

Other Interesting Books: Heaven on Earth, Simplicity Parenting, seven times the sun, Child of Wonder etc.

 

Recommended: Donnas (Christopherus) Audio Talks. Why Waldorf gives an understanding overview, transitioning shows ways to slowly add waldorf into your day etc. Early Childhood pdf which is packed full of

articles and forum discussions on important waldorf basics. Pre-K at home audio

tends to talk a lot about the birth, baby and toddler, and not so much on the

cusp of Pre-K onwards, I may have to listen to it again to see how much is

actually about "prek" and how much is birth/baby/toddling.

 

A few others: Millenial Child by Eugene Schwartz (more of a thesis styled book, so heavy reading), Waldorf Library, Rudolph Steiner Archive & Ruldoph Steiner Audio.

 

Have a look around Waldorf Books dot com and you may find some interesting bits more specific for what you are looking for. If you looking at the hows & whys of maths, I would suggest concentrating on Rudolph Steiners Lectures & Roy Wilkonsons books (I think theres also another hefty book about teaching mathematics in Waldorf schools that gives more info, but I can't remember the exact title)

 

OR (in case you just want a simple answer)

 

SIMPLE ANSWER: Waldorf maths uses a story-like format to introduce concepts for the child to easily understand and relate to. Waldorf central way of teaching is whole to parts rather than the parts to whole a lot of other curriculums used. I'm not sure where the concept of math gnomes came from I hear a lot of people mention Margaret Peckham and Dorothy Harrer (probably DH to be honest) being part of the origins. Everybody latches on to Gnomes so easily, when its really has NOTHING to do with gnomes (I like the gnomes, but if I had to deal with them several year down the road, that would be something else) the POINT of the use of gnomes (or fairies, or people, or rocks, or sticks, or money, or squirrels or whatever you honestly want to use) was to bring this mysterious abstract concept and pull it into "our" world, make it real, concrete, understandable to the kids. These mysterious four processes can now become four gnomes (who manage to lose stuff, gain stuff etc). Its taking it a few steps further past manipulatives based math.

 

HTH (going to get caffeine now lol)

[Sahamamama]

Donna (Christopherus) uses squirrels if thats any difference (LOL) she too, had enough of gnomes ;)

 

And I'm probably one of those heading down the road to what WI calls spiritual hardcore, although I will never absolutely hit that wall, because I don't believe in cutting everything off in its entirety (unless our family were in a situation where that would be fine) but more that each family is different and what you need to look at is limiting and moderating certain acitivities as much as possible, and if you can, cutting/quitting other activities, and preferably delaying them for a long distance down the road.

 

Heres a very small excerpt of something I posted elsewhere (i've altered it quite a bit (deleted all the personal info, so its now just a booklist), but it leaves the info you want intact)

 

Basics: You are your child's first teacher.

 

Other Interesting Books: Heaven on Earth, Simplicity Parenting, seven times the sun, Child of Wonder etc.

 

Recommended: Donnas (Christopherus) Audio Talks. Why Waldorf gives an understanding overview, transitioning shows ways to slowly add waldorf into your day etc. Early Childhood pdf which is packed full of

articles and forum discussions on important waldorf basics. Pre-K at home audio

tends to talk a lot about the birth, baby and toddler, and not so much on the

cusp of Pre-K onwards, I may have to listen to it again to see how much is

actually about "prek" and how much is birth/baby/toddling.

 

A few others: Millenial Child by Eugene Schwartz (more of a thesis styled book, so heavy reading), Waldorf Library, Rudolph Steiner Archive & Ruldoph Steiner Audio.

 

Have a look around Waldorf Books dot com and you may find some interesting bits more specific for what you are looking for. If you looking at the hows & whys of maths, I would suggest concentrating on Rudolph Steiners Lectures & Roy Wilkonsons books (I think theres also another hefty book about teaching mathematics in Waldorf schools that gives more info, but I can't remember the exact title)

 

OR (in case you just want a simple answer)

 

SIMPLE ANSWER: Waldorf maths uses a story-like format to introduce concepts for the child to easily understand and relate to. Waldorf central way of teaching is whole to parts rather than the parts to whole a lot of other curriculums used. I'm not sure where the concept of math gnomes came from I hear a lot of people mention Margaret Peckham and Dorothy Harrer (probably DH to be honest) being part of the origins. Everybody latches on to Gnomes so easily, when its really has NOTHING to do with gnomes (I like the gnomes, but if I had to deal with them several year down the road, that would be something else) the POINT of the use of gnomes (or fairies, or people, or rocks, or sticks, or money, or squirrels or whatever you honestly want to use) was to bring this mysterious abstract concept and pull it into "our" world, make it real, concrete, understandable to the kids. These mysterious four processes can now become four gnomes (who manage to lose stuff, gain stuff etc). Its taking it a few steps further past manipulatives based math.

 

HTH (going to get caffeine now lol)

 

 

Thanks for this entire post, especially the bold. What do you limit? What do you do in moderation? What do you delay?

 

And, about the gnomes -- from the outside looking in, there is such an explosion of gnomes, crafts, acorn cups, knitted hats, and so on, that I end up thinking Waldorf = crafts? or Waldorf = nature exposure? It's hard to get to the meat on the bone. Thank you so much for posting! Off to bed for now, but I'll be back to check out your recommended reading list! :)

[swellmomma]

 

Thanks for this entire post, especially the bold. What do you limit? What do you do in moderation? What do you delay?

 

And, about the gnomes -- from the outside looking in, there is such an explosion of gnomes, crafts, acorn cups, knitted hats, and so on, that I end up thinking Waldorf = crafts? or Waldorf = nature exposure? It's hard to get to the meat on the bone. Thank you so much for posting! Off to bed for now, but I'll be back to check out your recommended reading list! :)

 

I can't answer for the poster you asked but this is something that has really been bugging me this year. I am using a waldorf curric for my younger 2 kids. They love it and it has been fun BUT that limiting bit really rubbed me wrong. I will explain why. The creator of the curric I am using is a wonderful lady and has a yahoo group for all those interested in Waldorf not just those using her curric. Anyway there is often questions about rhythm so one day I asked about what to do with a busy family and creating rhythm for the younger kids. My older kids had it when they were small, I knew nothing about Waldorf back then but it was a natural thing, however life is very different for my little than it was for my bigs at those ages. My youngest 2 spend a lot of time int he car as I drive the teens here, there and everywhere. My teens are thriving on their busy schedules, but I wanted to find a way to bring more rhythm to my youngers without short changing either age grouping.

 

I was told by the owner and the group members that the ONLY way to acheive that would be to make my teens quit their activities, my oldest to quit his job (because we live too far from town for him to transport himself), and to make my youngest 2 quit their activities, including church group etc. because kids should be home with the family and only the family and the only right way to raise them is to have them home and give them the proper rhythm of baking on Monday, painting on Tuesday etc.

 

My family likes the busy-ness of our life, we have several days/evenings at home without activities, and several where we zoom from 1 activity to the next. It works for us, I just wanted to create a better pattern of events for my youngers to have those things my olders had, like baking days, and crafting days etc.

 

It was really irritating me that no one would listen when I said no one was quitting anything, we like our activities. My kids need that time away from family and each other. Son is not going to quit his job etc. And well I may as well have told them I was encouraging my kids to hang out with child molesters. And then it was learned that I use a classical approach for my teens and whoa nelly, that set off a bunch of messages, mostly off list about how I was doing wrong by my kids blah blah blah.

 

The same with the thoughts on toys, foods, screen time etc.

 

I was really drawn to Waldorf for aspects of it, and I am finding many of those aspects outlined in Charlotte Mason approach without the lynching for joining into sports teams or church groups etc.

 

I am going to use a different approach next year and find our own mix of what works. But it looks like we will be using konos and a few other things in a charlotte mason-y way with the younger kids. And not only will we keep our current busy-ness next year but I am looking to add to it.

[Shamzanne]

I actually started looking into Waldorf methods just recently. Some kids very close to me are in a Waldorf style school. I recently read something about Waldorf being its own religion, which I had never heard before. This article was the most helpful to me. I am confident there is a wide range of Waldorf schools and it is possible for parents to use methods without buying into the whole shebang.

[Sahamamama]

I actually started looking into Waldorf methods just recently. Some kids very close to me are in a Waldorf style school. I recently read something about Waldorf being its own religion, which I had never heard before. This article was the most helpful to me. I am confident there is a wide range of Waldorf schools and it is possible for parents to use methods without buying into the whole shebang.

That's an eye-opener. :huh: Thanks for posting!

[Walking-Iris]

The pseudo-religious stuff is not really the point imo. A religion has it's own organization and administration and dogma etc. Waldorf is closer to an education/parenting philosophy. I think we could investigate the origins of quite a few things and find something we don't like in regard to our personal worldviews. Waldorf sometimes gets lumped into a lens that isn't really fair. Some people are hardcore in certain beliefs and Waldorf seems to support that, but I feel it's not the norm. I have very close dear friends who homeschool on a strictly Waldorf basis who don't really buy into the "spiritual" aspect. They like the focus on organic, natural, family rhythm, being outside, story etc. They like felt knitting gnomes to teach kids math and keeping a seasonal table and cooking organically and keeping their kids away from technology. But as far as it being a religion???? Nope that isn't even on their radar. It's an education method they've chosen, not a "religion." The focus on simple and natural tends to attract parents of a more organic and natural lifestyle. Waldorf schools focus on gardening/farming projects, environmental activities, real work (one school I read about had the 1st grade focus on building their own clubhouses throughout the term).

 

Honestly I don't think hardcore Waldorf is terribly different than homeschooling from a strict Christian only worldview. Each style imho tends to limit material and opportunity through a particular worldview. There are going to be those who are overly strict about adhering to the formula of the method.

 

There are educational and parenting benefits to adding some Waldorf flavor to the day. Arts and crafts, nature study, storytelling, simple and moderate parenting. I don't think it's necessary to be elitist about what toys kids play with, but it is a good idea to give children's playthings a critical eye towards beauty, quality, and whether this thing will uplift them or bring them down. Reading about Waldorf is how I came to the conclusion I didn't want my children to play with crude or "ugly" things like Bioncle type war fighting monster stuff. Or Bratz or Monster High type stuff for my daughter. I'm not trying to start a debate about those, just saying that Waldorf would try to look to surround children with simple and beautiful things that encouraged imaginative and gentle play and didn't impress a certain image onto a child's mind.

 

Funny one pp said Waldorf =crafts and nature. LOL For me it does. Those aspects are the ones I like and I've sort of latched onto. I agree to an extent with some of the parenting philosophy, and I like fairies just as much as the next girl, but as an overarching method for our education and lifestyle, it doesn't work. I'm much too eclectic to adhere to one "thing."

[mommymilkies]

Actually, it is entirely a religious & philosophical branch of anthroposophy. However, many people try to use it without the anthroposophy and use it as an educational philosophy only. I was one of those people. When it comes down to it, though, the why for most things in Waldorf fall apart without anthroposophy. Certainly you can use it in a different form, like OM does, but it's not truly Waldorf. I really love Donna Simmons. But for us. The why and how fell apart in implementation when my kids were over 8 yo. It is too rigid, which seems weird to say about Waldorf, but if your kid is ahead, it's not really acceptable in some ways.

[briansmama]

Waldorf Ed is a holistic education, incorporating academics through artistic output with the child's development at the center. Some Waldorf-inspired curricula use gnomes as part of the story-work used to introduce math concepts (the 4 processes), but Waldorf doesn't always include gnomes.

 

Some people have a problem with "fairies" used in early grades Waldorf stories, but the purpose is to use quality literature that is developmentally appropriate for the child. Waldorf defines this as the first 7 years of a child's life being the most imaginative- that adults working with the child need to be sensitive to this and reach the child through imaginative stories and creative output.

 

Waldorf Ed was created by Rudolph Steiner, who based his curriculum on the child's soul development, so this is where anthroposophy comes in, and where I take what I love about Waldorf and leave the rest.

 

So, to me, Waldorf and what I take from it, is a literature-based curriculum that incorporates child development into working with the child. Waldorf (in the way I apply it to my children trough Enki and Christopherus) is about using quality stories that nourish the child (fairy and folk tales in K and 1st grade, fable stories and stories of saints and sages in 2nd, and Old Testament stories in 3rd, Norse Mythology in 4th, etc). With these stories come artistic and academic output (in main lesson books, where the children create their own learning books).

 

Children from K and up memorize poetry, sing songs and verses, listen/read quality literature, and learn to read and write, draw and watercolor, from the stories. Math facts are memorized using movement during circle time (we use bean bag games). Waldorf encourages lots of outdoor nature time and stories.

 

Waldorf is not about pushing early academics, textbooks and worksheets, or early computer use.

 

I'm currently reading the Charlotte Mason series as we apply more CM methods in our homeschool for 3rd grade and up, and there are a lot of similarities between Waldorf and CM (at least, in how we apply it).

[Mandy in TN]

The pseudo-religious stuff is not really the point imo. A religion has it's own organization and administration and dogma etc. Waldorf is closer to an education/parenting philosophy. I think we could investigate the origins of quite a few things and find something we don't like in regard to our personal worldviews. Waldorf sometimes gets lumped into a lens that isn't really fair. Some people are hardcore in certain beliefs and Waldorf seems to support that, but I feel it's not the norm. I have very close dear friends who homeschool on a strictly Waldorf basis who don't really buy into the "spiritual" aspect. They like the focus on organic, natural, family rhythm, being outside, story etc. They like felt knitting gnomes to teach kids math and keeping a seasonal table and cooking organically and keeping their kids away from technology. But as far as it being a religion???? Nope that isn't even on their radar. It's an education method they've chosen, not a "religion." The focus on simple and natural tends to attract parents of a more organic and natural lifestyle. Waldorf schools focus on gardening/farming projects, environmental activities, real work (one school I read about had the 1st grade focus on building their own clubhouses throughout the term).

 

Honestly I don't think hardcore Waldorf is terribly different than homeschooling from a strict Christian only worldview. Each style imho tends to limit material and opportunity through a particular worldview. There are going to be those who are overly strict about adhering to the formula of the method.

 

There are educational and parenting benefits to adding some Waldorf flavor to the day. Arts and crafts, nature study, storytelling, simple and moderate parenting. I don't think it's necessary to be elitist about what toys kids play with, but it is a good idea to give children's playthings a critical eye towards beauty, quality, and whether this thing will uplift them or bring them down. Reading about Waldorf is how I came to the conclusion I didn't want my children to play with crude or "ugly" things like Bioncle type war fighting monster stuff. Or Bratz or Monster High type stuff for my daughter. I'm not trying to start a debate about those, just saying that Waldorf would try to look to surround children with simple and beautiful things that encouraged imaginative and gentle play and didn't impress a certain image onto a child's mind.

 

Funny one pp said Waldorf =crafts and nature. LOL For me it does. Those aspects are the ones I like and I've sort of latched onto. I agree to an extent with some of the parenting philosophy, and I like fairies just as much as the next girl, but as an overarching method for our education and lifestyle, it doesn't work. I'm much too eclectic to adhere to one "thing."

 

And not only am I eclectic, the needs of my child do not fit neatly into a particular type of education.

 

If you like some aspects of Waldorf, grab them and utilize them. I like nature tables. I don't like that TWTM classical education for elementary education avoids the upper levels of Bloom's revised taxonomy in favor of focusing intensely on the bottom two. I like how Waldorf materials naturally encourage the upper levels. Also, finger knitting was a much bigger hit with my little guy than legos. :-) However, I like all kinds of art materials and I am sure most of it is just wrong according to Waldorf. I like wet on wet watercolor, but I also like throwing Kosher salt on it and watching what happens and once I let my son paint leafless winter trees in black acrylic on his when it was dry. lol I am sure some Waldorf purest would be horrified.

 

Having an instructor presented as an almost omniscient guide, isn't a place from which I feel comfortable instructing. OTOH, while I like Montessori products, it is difficult to pull off the peer pressure, um peer guidance, group learning thing in a group of one. I know that, while I like having prepared materials and allowing some self-exploration, my youngest would never choose to move from subject to subject or activity to activity discovering things independently. He needs more guidance and instruction than Montessori would typically provide. So, I want to provide more direction than a Montessori teacher and less guidance than a Waldorf teacher.

 

I really like some Waldorf and some Montessori materials, but Charlotte Mason really guides me as far as the ideal for how I want to instruct.

 

I like to pull our curriculum together using several methods.

 

•a little bit of Waldorf- the part that emphasizes imagination and creativity in learning

 

•a little bit of Montessori- the part that emphasizes supporting a child's nature by allowing them self-exploration within prepared materials

 

•a chunk of Charlotte Mason style Classical- the part that emphasizes habit training, narration, living books, enjoyment of poetry and short lessons

 

My overriding homeschool philosophy is adapted entirely from Charlotte Mason.

 

My child is not a blank slate, but is a whole person complete with his own personality and capacity for good and evil. I respect that he is born whole and that his mind is naturally designed to learn. I can provide the nourishment of education for his mind to grow healthy through a learning lifestyle where he is trained to be disciplined not in subject matter but in life for "education is an atmosphere, a discipline, a life."

 

My child must be taught the difference between what he wants to do right now and his will to do what is appropriate/ right. He must also be taught to be careful not to rationalize something to be right simply because he wants it to be so. Along these lines, there can be no true happiness without first taking care of responsibilities. “…the chief responsibility which rests on them as persons is the acceptance or rejection of ideas. To help them in this choice we give them principles of conduct, and a wide range of the knowledge fitted to them.â€

 

"I am, I can, I ought, I will." is the place from which I instruct, because we achieve through diligence not through intelligence or imagination. I use habit training as a road to success, but I exercise this alongside the idea that “perhaps the business of teachers is to open as many doors as possible.â€

 

Sorry to the op, I know I just pulled other educators and my love of CM into a Waldorf thread, but I couldn't help myself. I recently purchased a couple of Waldorf middle school geometry products and spent quite a bit of time researching Waldorf middle school geometry on the web. So, I have been thinking about Waldorf, Montessori, and Charlotte Mason lately and what exactly it is that I am drawn to in their approaches to children and education and revisiting what I can take from that and utilize in my homeschool. What I typed above, I wrote awhile back with a few recent alterations. I am working on modifying it to better meet my youngest son's needs.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Sahamamama]

Mandy, I am going to print out your entire post and frame it! :)

 

So much to consider... there are aspects to CM that we find are rich and life-changing, surprisingly so. We learn and teach from "I am, I can, I ought, I will." In fact, we recite and expand on these -- it's amazing how this forms the idea and habit of diligence in both teacher and students! ;)

 

When I'm in my Montessori mood, I'm not sure who learns more, the students or the "teacher." It's instructive to me, as a teacher, to see that my children really can and do interact with their environment in a way that leads to growth and learning. It doesn't all have to come from me, The Omniscient One. :smilielol5:

 

I'm not at all interested in the religion/philosophy of Waldorf, though I'm aware of it. A bit leary of it, but I suppose we can take what we wish and leave the rest, right? I am interested in Waldorf's story-nature-craft focus. I'm not at all artistic or crafty. I can glue and sew and do a few things with wood. How does the teacher become skilled enough to pull it off?

 

I'll reread these posts some more after school is done today. Thanks for posting!

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that it's important to keep in mind that the Waldorf philosophy arose in Germany, and so it reflects the specific folk tales and legends that were popular there when it started. Thus the gnomes.

 

It has religious aspects that are unacceptable to me, and other aspects (natural materials, love of beauty, rhythm in days, seasons, and life, use of very good art materials from an early age, cocooning of young children, emphasis on story telling rather than just reading aloud, emphasis on music and on history) that are extremely appealing to me. That is why I did not send my DD to the local Waldorf school, but did bring her to their Christmas fairs annually and sought Waldorf-style teachers from some of her extra-curriculars while she was homeschooling.

[Sahamamama]

I think that it's important to keep in mind that the Waldorf philosophy arose in Germany, and so it reflects the specific folk tales and legends that were popular there when it started. Thus the gnomes.

 

It has religious aspects that are unacceptable to me, and other aspects (natural materials, love of beauty, rhythm in days, seasons, and life, use of very good art materials from an early age, cocooning of young children, emphasis on story telling rather than just reading aloud, emphasis on music and on history) that are extremely appealing to me. That is why I did not send my DD to the local Waldorf school, but did bring her to their Christmas fairs annually and sought Waldorf-style teachers from some of her extra-curriculars while she was homeschooling.

 

 

 

Carol, thank you. This is helpful to me. The religious aspects are unacceptable for us, too, but there are other aspects that appeal to us. We find the use of natural materials, love of beauty, seasonal/daily rhythm, and an emphasis on music to be things we have been doing all along. Art, not so much. We have been trying to move more toward story-telling, rather than just reading aloud, too.

 

We have cocooned our children since when they were young. I must admit, it's not a popular or commonly understood way of parenting, at least not where I live (NJ). When our girls were really little, most parents of young children seemed eager to have their children gone as soon as possible. "Oh, he's potty trained now, thank God, now he can go to preschool." Some of the moms in the Moms Morning Out group had nannies, even though the moms were not employed. "So I'm free to go out," was the reason given.

 

I don't know... I'm not judging, just pointing out how very unusual we were, even back then. The prevailing question was, "What preschool (school) did she get into?" When I said, "We don't plan to put her into school, we're learning at home," all I got were blank stares. :blink: The other thing we didn't do was run all over the place to put the children into "activities." In part, we didn't have the money. In part, I didn't have the stamina to run in the evenings, my husband worked long hours/traveled, and we also preferred being home in the evenings. But not having our children in Activities A, B, C, and D really makes us different around here.

 

I'll keep thinking about this. We'll work out what we want to incorporate from Waldorf. I look at websites like this and think how much my girls would LOVE working on a little world. It wouldn't have to be gnomes, but I don't mind them. They're cute, and seem simple enough to make. It's the smallness of it all -- the miniature, imaginary world they could create.

 

I realize Waldorf emphasizes this sort of thing for children UP TO age 7, but I happen to think children who are older would enjoy the creation of a little world. My girls are 6, 6, and 8. I can see the 8 year old diving in. LOL. Where's the glue? She's entering the crafting stage -- sewing, crocheting, wants to learn to knit. Can you imagine? Little felt rugs, little acorn cups? Tables from sticks? My oldest would eat this up, and her skills are strong enough to not need so much work for a while.

[freeindeed]

I use Oak Meadow with my dd12 and my dd4. I don't agree with all of Waldorf (especially anthroposphy), but since OM is not strict Waldorf, I haven't had any issues so far. I like the focus on rhythm and seasons, and I also like the writing and projects focus.

[ElizaG]

I think that it's important to keep in mind that the Waldorf philosophy arose in Germany, and so it reflects the specific folk tales and legends that were popular there when it started.

Gnomes also have a particular significance in Anthroposophy, though. They believe they're "nature spirits" or "elementals" that live in mines and are associated with minerals, and that people can perceive them if they're sensitive enough and not corrupted by modern ways of life.

 

I'm sure most homeschoolers don't believe this, but Waldorf teachers and writers who subscribe to this belief system certainly do. And the creator of Waldorf education, Rudolf Steiner, had a great deal to say about these supposed creatures and their purported behavior.

 

Search query for "gnomes" on rsarchive.org (archive of Steiner's writings and lectures)

 

Gnomes and critics at Waldorf schools (National Post [Canadian newspaper], Nov. 16, 2002)

 

Gnomes -- Waldorf Watch -- mostly quotations from Steiner & Waldorf teachers

 

Kind of gives a different way of looking at this practice.

[Carol in Cal.]

I didn't realize that, but certainly the religious aspects of the underlying system are what kept me from the school.

Still, I think that he didn't invent gnomes, or natural materials, or good art supplies. They are all aspects of the values of a lot of German culture. He just adopted them, not originated them, just like his use of the German holidays, which are mostly sourced in the Church Year.

There are some great natural craft books from Waldorf sources that inform a lot of really charming handicraft work that is seasonal and decorative. Most of it is classic German or English handwork.

[Walking-Iris]

LOL Finger knitting today, joining a cult tomorrow...... :blink:

[mommymilkies]

I didn't realize that, but certainly the religious aspects of the underlying system are what kept me from the school.

Still, I think that he didn't invent gnomes, or natural materials, or good art supplies. They are all aspects of the values of a lot of German culture. He just adopted them, not originated them, just like his use of the German holidays, which are mostly sourced in the Church Year.

There are some great natural craft books from Waldorf sources that inform a lot of really charming handicraft work that is seasonal and decorative. Most of it is classic German or English handwork.

This book has almost every Waldorf craft in it from a more independent source and I've seen it more affordable than what Amazon currently has.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Earthways-Simple-Environmental-Activities-Children/dp/087659156X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362063903&sr=8-1&keywords=earthways

 

This one is great, too. (Steiner publisher)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Childrens-Year-Seasonal-Festivals-Hawthorn/dp/1903458595/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362063944&sr=1-1&keywords=children%27s+year

 

You are right that Steiner did not originate or invent them. But if you are talking about getting into Waldorf, then there is the religious aspect behind everything from the paint colors they are allowed to use at which age, to the makeup of the crayons. HOWEVER, you can use parts of Waldorf without the religion. Just know that if you buy Waldorf curricula (not counting OM, which is inspired, but no longer Waldorf), you WILL encounter anthroposophy.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

. . . other aspects (natural materials, love of beauty, rhythm in days, seasons, and life, use of very good art materials from an early age, cocooning of young children, emphasis on story telling rather than just reading aloud, emphasis on music and on history) that are extremely appealing to me.

 

 

We had many Waldorf influences in the early years--some of which are listed in the above quote. We are far from Waldorf now, but I often find myself wanting to bring back some of the Waldorf emphasis on rhythm of days, seasons, and life. I wish there were more resources dealing with that concept in the middle school years.

[TheAutumnOak]

Actually, it is entirely a religious & philosophical branch of anthroposophy. However, many people try to use it without the anthroposophy and use it as an educational philosophy only. I was one of those people. When it comes down to it, though, the why for most things in Waldorf fall apart without anthroposophy. Certainly you can use it in a different form, like OM does, but it's not truly Waldorf. I really love Donna Simmons. But for us. The why and how fell apart in implementation when my kids were over 8 yo. It is too rigid, which seems weird to say about Waldorf, but if your kid is ahead, it's not really acceptable in some ways.

 

 

This...It is very difficult to explain what Waldorf is, because it is a way of educating in light of an anthroposophical view of the world and mankind...I can explain to you how Waldorf manifests itself, but without an understanding in anthroposophy, it is hard to understand...That is why Waldorf teacher training begins with several courses in anthroposophy...Trust me, I have taken them :tongue_smilie:

 

There are great components to Waldorf that can be imitated, but you cannot "do Waldorf" without understanding or embracing anthroposophy...There are things I like about Waldorf, but I am not an anthroposophist, so it always falls apart for me every time I try it...I tried it again at the beginning of this school year...

 

I am sorry this is not a good explanation...I will look for an old post where I was thinking more clearly and have a better explanation, but I am afraid such a post does not esist :blush5:

[Sahamamama]

 

This...It is very difficult to explain what Waldorf is, because it is a way of educating in light of an anthroposophical view of the world and mankind...I can explain to you how Waldorf manifests itself, but without an understanding in anthroposophy, it is hard to understand...That is why Waldorf teacher training begins with several courses in anthroposophy...Trust me, I have taken them :tongue_smilie:

 

There are great components to Waldorf that can be imitated, but you cannot "do Waldorf" without understanding or embracing anthroposophy...There are things I like about Waldorf, but I am not an anthroposophist, so it always falls apart for me every time I try it...I tried it again at the beginning of this school year...

 

I am sorry this is not a good explanation...I will look for an old post where I was thinking more clearly and have a better explanation, but I am afraid such a post does not esist :blush5:

 

 

Thanks, Autumn Oak. I was hoping you'd stop by and contribute. I know you used Waldorf for a number of years with your boys.

 

If a person decided that the underlying philosophy wasn't for her, exactly, what components of Waldorf are worth imitating? Or does it fall apart entirely without the underlying philosophy? What does a "Waldorf day" look like?

 

There are some parts of it -- the nature focus, the cycles/seasons, art, story -- that remind me of Charlotte Mason education. Could that be it? I'm sure Rudolph Steiner and Charlotte Mason were on opposite ends of the spectrum. LOL. But I'd like to "embrace" nature and enjoy it, without worshiping it, if that makes sense. Perhaps that is what I find interesting.

 

What worked when you did Waldorf? What didn't work?

[mommymilkies]

I'm not Autumn Oak, but I was involved with Waldorf from 2005-2012 on and off. A Waldorf day highly depends on the age and stage of your child. I would honestly suggest Christopherus (Donna Simmons) Waldorf Curriculum Overview for Homeschoolers. It is a wonderful book. Otherwise, Heaven on Earth by Oppenheimer is good, and available on Amazon. if you are looking for rhythm and a little less anthroposophy, that would be my pick. There are many good blogs, too! For preschool/Kindy age, I would recommend Little Acorns. She is a Catholic mother who is Waldorf inspired, and she has good resources on rhythm, nature exploration, and seasonal celebrations.

 

 

 

For preschool age children, a rhythm for us was something like: wake and cuddle, dress, breakfast (purists have a grain and color of the day), morning walk with stretches, circle time (lots of motion-gross motor, proprioreceptive, etc.), stories-NO books for young kids, which I always ignored. Then free play with natural toys when possible, help making and cleaning up from lunch, nap, outside play, make dinner....Basically the same as many households, but less tv, media, computer games, and an emphasis on story telling, nature exploration, and singing. We have songs and blessings for everything. ;)

 

 

[briansmama]

I'm not Autumn Oak, but we too use a Waldorf program until 3rd grade, when we begin incorporating more Charlotte Mason methods.

 

Waldorf is similar (to me) to CM in that they are both literature-based, both encourage nature study and lots of outdoor time as well as a celebration for the seasons.

 

Circle time or movement, as we call it, which includes math facts through bean bag, copper rod, and jump rope games is something we learned from Waldorf Ed that we love, and to me, doesn't need to be rooted in anthroposophy. Many schools now incorporate similar morning activities and call it "brain gym" or the like, even non-Waldorf schools.

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

We have songs and blessings for everything. ;)

 

 

Do you have these for your older children as well? I would love to find more for the middle school years.

[mommymilkies]

 

Do you have these for your older children as well? I would love to find more for the middle school years.

 

Donna Simmons is great for this. Otherwise, there are some books that have poems for older kids, too. For the daily start off to work, to circle and lesson songs appropriate for older kids, etc. I can't remember the names right now. I got them from ILL. Steiner Books or Bob and Nancy surely have a good selection.

[AngelBee]

Subbing

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Donna Simmons is great for this. Otherwise, there are some books that have poems for older kids, too. For the daily start off to work, to circle and lesson songs appropriate for older kids, etc. I can't remember the names right now. I got them from ILL. Steiner Books or Bob and Nancy surely have a good selection.

 

 

Thanks. I looked at the websites and was quickly reminded how "not Waldorf" we are. ;)

 

I'm having difficulty finding rhythm books/info that isn't for the younger crowd, or that isn't so Waldorf influenced. Unless I overlooked something, there isn't anything on those sites that fits the bill. Which of course makes perfect sense being that they are Waldorf sites.

 

Maybe I should look for seasonal poetry set to song. I would also like to find a collection of work songs that aren't geared toward the Pre-K/elementary ages. Maybe traditional work songs from various cultures?

 

If I've missed something on those sites, please let me know. :001_smile:

 

Thanks!

[Nicholas_mom]

I'm having difficulty finding rhythm books/info that isn't for the younger crowd, or that isn't so Waldorf influenced. Unless I overlooked something, there isn't anything on those sites that fits the bill. Which of course makes perfect sense being that they are Waldorf sites.

 

Maybe I should look for seasonal poetry set to song. I would also like to find a collection of work songs that aren't geared toward the Pre-K/elementary ages. Maybe traditional work songs from various cultures?

 

If I've missed something on those sites, please let me know. :001_smile:

 

ENKI Education would fit your bill, atleast the 3 Guide Books. It's more based on buddist principles but people mistake it for Waldorf because of the influence she used from Steiner (basically following Steiner's child development).

 

Your idea of using culture songs for will work great! It's the mood you want to instill....I know one Mom used the Queen's Song "Another Bites the Dust" as a clean-up song.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

ENKI Education would fit your bill, atleast the 3 Guide Books. It's more based on buddist principles but people mistake it for Waldorf because of the influence she used from Steiner (basically following Steiner's child development).

 

Your idea of using culture songs for will work great! It's the mood you want to instill....I know one Mom used the Queen's Song "Another Bites the Dust" as a clean-up song.

 

LOL! That is certainly a song that never crossed my mind to use! How funny!

 

Hmm...I looked at ENKI and am having trouble understanding. The guide books seem geared toward 6th grade and down. I am looking for 7th grade and up.

 

Is ENKI handicraft based? The first picture I saw on the site was weaving or something similar. I'm not looking for something rooted deeply in handicrafts.

(I know, why on earth am I reading this thread if I'm not wanting something rooted in handicrafts? ;) )

[Nicholas_mom]

The guide books seem geared toward 6th grade and down. I am looking for 7th grade and up.

 

Is ENKI handicraft based? The first picture I saw on the site was weaving or something similar. I'm not looking for something rooted deeply in handicrafts.

 

7th grade and up --- On ENKI site she recommends for High School this http://www.enkieduca...xcellence_2.htm

 

She will not have any curriculum past Grade 3. The Guide Books would help with teaching you about rhythym, but yeah Grade 7 is the point where songs aren't used much because you have already created your rhythym in the early years. I think Waldorf stops around 6th Grade - Middle School, but every child is different. Try thinking of a mood for cleaning or dinner time and then think a song and either hum or sing the song when you want to change to that particular activitity. Do you know how your children would react to you singing? It was strange for my son when he was 3 yrs old when I started this. :)

 

BTW, you might have to ignore comments when they say something to your singing. After about 3 weeks they will expect it and then when you don't, they like are asking you to sing it :)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

7th grade and up --- On ENKI site she recommends for High School this http://www.enkieduca...xcellence_2.htm

 

She will not have any curriculum past Grade 3. The Guide Books would help with teaching you about rhythym, but yeah Grade 7 is the point where songs aren't used much because you have already created your rhythym in the early years. I think Waldorf stops around 6th Grade - Middle School, but every child is different. Try thinking of a mood for cleaning or dinner time and then think a song and either hum or sing the song when you want to change to that particular activitity. Do you know how your children would react to you singing? It was strange for my son when he was 3 yrs old when I started this. :)

 

BTW, you might have to ignore comments when they say something to your singing. After about 3 weeks they will expect it and then when you don't, they like are asking you to sing it :)

 

 

I'm not sure the guide book would be of use if it doesn't deal with 7th and up. I've got the earlier years down pat. ;) Thanks, though!

 

Singing has been a part of our days since she was little. That's part of the problem--we miss the singing and the mindfulness it brings. So it appears what I'm looking for doesn't exist. At least not in an all-in-one resource.

 

Thanks for the info, though!

[mommymilkies]

I agree, I own Enki K-1 and it is not worth it for that age range, AT ALL. Waldorf stuff is really hard to find for that age range, but your best bet that I have personally seen is the Waldorf Curriculum Overview by Simmons. It's also over $300 more affordable than Enki!

 

For singing in particular, I would recommend Rise Up and Sing or a Shaker singing book to be closer to what you need.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

For singing in particular, I would recommend Rise Up and Sing or a Shaker singing book to be closer to what you need.

 

Thanks! This pointed me in the right direction. I found some Unitarian Universalist songbooks/cds that will work. Thanks so much.

 

So sorry for derailing the thread!

[Nicholas_mom]

I agree, I own Enki K-1 and it is not worth it for that age range, AT ALL.

 

Sorry I did not explain myself well. I meant the OVERVIEW Teaching ENKI Guides Books 1,2, NOT the GRADE GUIDES. Those are different. The OVERVIEW Teaching Guide goes through all the grades and how to implement everything. BUT it doesn't have songs, if songs are what you are looking for. I thought you were looking on HOW to implement for older grades without EVER knowing about Waldorf. Sorry my mistake.

[mommymilkies]

Sorry I did not explain myself well. I meant the OVERVIEW Teaching ENKI Guides Books 1,2, NOT the GRADE GUIDES. Those are different. The OVERVIEW Teaching Guide goes through all the grades and how to implement everything. BUT it doesn't have songs, if songs are what you are looking for. I thought you were looking on HOW to implement for older grades without EVER knowing about Waldorf. Sorry my mistake.

No problem. But I really hate their website and it takes forever to find what you need. Is this what you're talking about? The Foundations guide?

 

http://www.enkieducation.org/html/homeschool-resources.htm

 

http://secure.enkieducation.org/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_6&products_id=1

 

Or the graded level ones? I just have the K & 1 curricula. They actually contain many helpful songs, but it's so not worth it just for that.

 

Edited to fix links

[Sahamamama]

No problem. But I really hate their website and it takes forever to find what you need. Is this what you're talking about? The Foundations guide? http://www.enkieduca...products_id=1�� Or the graded level ones? I just have the K & 1 curricula. They actually contain many helpful songs, but it's so not worth it just for that.

Mommymilkies, that link didn't work.

[mommymilkies]

Try now. Their website gives me so many problems!

[beachrose]

A great waldorf curriculum for the older grades is Live Education. I've found where the beliefs differ from mine it's a great platform to discuss and investigate why we believe differently. We have had the most bonding discussions over things that wouldn't even come up in most curriculum. I would much rather have these discussions with my teens then they with all biased college professors out there.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

A great waldorf curriculum for the older grades is Live Education. I've found where the beliefs differ from mine it's a great platform to discuss and investigate why we believe differently. We have had the most bonding discussions over things that wouldn't even come up in most curriculum. I would much rather have these discussions with my teens then they with all biased college professors out there.

 

 

Thanks for the reminder. I haven't looked at Live Education for years.

 

I've been giving this much thought. I think perhaps rhythm grows up to be time management and living mindfully. Perhaps those are the resources I should be seeking out for the middle school and high school years.

[freeindeed]

Circle Time is wonderful for my special needs daughter. She just smiled and smiled today when we lit the candle and did our verses. I love what some of the Waldorf elements have done for her, and I just leave out the parts that don't fit with our beliefs. I use Oak Meadow Preschool with her, along with ideas from this book: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/303027.Natural_Childhood Again, I take the elements I agree with and leave out those I don't. I also ordered this book: http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/betty-jones/a-childs-seasonal-treasury/paperback/product-20347265.html I'll be receiving it in a few days & I'll incorporate it into our days as well. My dd12 uses Oak Meadow 6, as I mentioned in an earlier post. I've just added in Bible study. I really haven't seen much anthroposophy in her materials yet.

[thefragile7393]

Gnomes also have a particular significance in Anthroposophy, though. They believe they're "nature spirits" or "elementals" that live in mines and are associated with minerals, and that people can perceive them if they're sensitive enough and not corrupted by modern ways of life.

 

I'm sure most homeschoolers don't believe this, but Waldorf teachers and writers who subscribe to this belief system certainly do. And the creator of Waldorf education, Rudolf Steiner, had a great deal to say about these supposed creatures and their purported behavior.

 

Search query for "gnomes" on rsarchive.org (archive of Steiner's writings and lectures)

 

Gnomes and critics at Waldorf schools (National Post [Canadian newspaper], Nov. 16, 2002)

 

Gnomes -- Waldorf Watch -- mostly quotations from Steiner & Waldorf teachers

 

Kind of gives a different way of looking at this practice.

Anything with "watch" in the title I am going to be leery of. The guy who founded that website is not exactly what I would call unbiased and didn't do his research before he sent his child to a Waldorf school. OM is not true Waldorf, and anyone can take what they like and leave the rest.

[Sahamamama]

Gnomes also have a particular significance in Anthroposophy, though. They believe they're "nature spirits" or "elementals" that live in mines and are associated with minerals, and that people can perceive them if they're sensitive enough and not corrupted by modern ways of life.

 

I'm sure most homeschoolers don't believe this, but Waldorf teachers and writers who subscribe to this belief system certainly do. And the creator of Waldorf education, Rudolf Steiner, had a great deal to say about these supposed creatures and their purported behavior.

 

Search query for "gnomes" on rsarchive.org (archive of Steiner's writings and lectures)

 

Gnomes and critics at Waldorf schools (National Post [Canadian newspaper], Nov. 16, 2002)

 

Gnomes -- Waldorf Watch -- mostly quotations from Steiner & Waldorf teachers

 

Kind of gives a different way of looking at this practice.

 

ElizaGrace, thanks for posting these links. Wow! :blink: I'm not interested in Waldorf now.

[briansmama]

 

 

yeah this is basically our whole routine from our occupational therapist :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

we are really Waldorf until third as well then use more twtm/CM

 

but we are a more squirrel family not a gnome family :)

 

Us too!!! :)

[ElizaG]

Anything with "watch" in the title I am going to be leery of. The guy who founded that website is not exactly what I would call unbiased (...)

The first link is to a pro-Steiner site, and the middle one is to a news article that gives various points of view. Only the last one is from a "critics" site, and I chose to include that one because of the many quotations from Waldorf sources, not because of the commentary.

 

All three of these sources seem to give very similar descriptions of what Anthroposophists believe about gnomes. They just differ on whether or not they think this a good thing.

[Mandy in TN]

I had not blogged in a very long time, but this week I blogged about what we are doing. It is the last trimester of the year and we needed a little umphh, so we are doing it with friends. As a group we are a doing poetry, geometry, botany, and lesser studied ancient cultures (4wks Achaemenid Persia, 4wks India, 4wks Japan).

 

For geometry, I have Waldorf Geometry for Homeschoolers Grade 6 and Waldorf Essentials Grade 5 and I have searched the internet for samples of Waldorf Geometry and watched videos on youtube. My introductory day is mostly Waldorf, but I am using the definition/ language of MUS. My son is using MUS Geometry, so I want the language to be consistent.

 

I am using a Montessori middle grade guideline for botany, but I before I set them loose with Montessori-inspired stations I am doing an introduction to the topic that is Waldorf inspired. I have looked at the Waldorf Essential Grade 5 Botany and Waldorf Inspirations Botany , and this Waldorf Steiner Class 5 Botany on Pinterest.

 

The ancient cultures will probably end up being the least Waldorf. Although I am using some stuff from Waldorf Inspirations, we are making mini-books and such that can be used to build a lapbook.

 

While I understand the concerns with Steiner and Athroposophy and for these reasons don't know that I could send my son to a Waldorf school, I don't have any problem taking what works for me and using it in my home. So, if you are wanting to see what it looks like to incorporate Waldorf into your academics, as opposed to just the rhythm of the day, without using a full-blown Waldorf curriculum, here is what we are doing.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Catherine]

I am not unbiased on this topic, as my son had one year at a Waldorf school and it was horrible. But I did just want to chime in and report that his former classmates, all 19 or 20, are certainly not impressing me with their plans for adulthood so far. I'm all for limiting TV and video games for young kids, for stories, nature study\exposure, and a gentle parenting style. But I had a moment last year that encapsulated my Waldorf experience very well. I was at a community gathering and a woman whose daughter was in ds's class approached a small boy, probably about 4, who was happily playing in the dirt with a small plastic dinosaur. She actually asked him if he liked playing with it, then if he had ever actually seen a real lizard. Then she told him real lizards are much more interesting than plastic ones and different colors too. I could see real distress and pity in her face. And then I remembered the strong sense of judgement I felt from the other parents in the class that we might not be "Waldorf enough" when ds was in that school. No thanks!!

 

IOW, I'm trying to point out that this dedicated Waldorf Mom seemed to think that the corrupting influence of a plastic toy that a child was playing with in a normal, imaginative way, was enough to point out, to a four year old, that real lizards are "better" than plastic toy ones.

[momacacia]

Turns out my parents Waldorf educated me!

 

My dad would take me for walks into the woodsy park behind our home and we'd look for gnomes under little plants. We'd even leave out pieces of jellied bread for them under may apple plants and return later to see if the gnomes had snacked on them. (Of course they had. ;) ) We all eventually and sadly figured out that gnomes weren't real, and the Gnome 'textbook,' http://www.amazon.com/Gnomes-Deluxe-Collectors-Edition-Huygen/dp/B006OHTITM, was purged from my library once naked gnomes were found inside it. :laugh: A fun memory, though, and I still have a gnome Christmas ornament from my childhood. I'm going to have to read those gnome links.

 

Okay, so I know little to nothing about Waldorf, but maybe I'll incorporate Gnomes into school this week. :coolgleamA: The 4yo would totally go for it!

[freeindeed]

My dd4 will be 5 tomorrow. I am doing a Waldorf inspired birthday party for her. Hubby and I also made a Waldorf inspired canopy for her. It's in her special little area in our dining/school room. My mom is buying her some Waldorf building blocks from Bella Luna Toys. As I stated before, most of the Waldorf elements work beautifully with my little one. The rhythm, verses, and the gentleness of it are ideal for her.