Ask a Pagan Thread

[DragonFaerie]

As for my children, I am trying to raise them to make their own decisions about religion. My parents are Christian, and I allow them to take my children to church because I believe the basic lessons at church are good lessons (do unto others, etc.). But my kids also know that I believe differently. I have explained about my beliefs to them and I answer any questions they may have. They lean towards my way of thinking (DD is even calling herself a witch now), but they still have questions. DS asked me the other day if I believed in the devil. I want them to follow their own hearts as far as religion goes. But the main thing I want them to learn is religious tolerance.

[KarenNC]

It is interesting, because if you look at Catholicism or Orthodoxy, you can see a few practices still left over from pre-Christian days. A lot of it was done to help pagans assimilate into the fold of Christianity, such as the statues and icons, the intercession of Saints, etc. Some pagans even have their own prayer beads, similar to Rosary beads. Of course, prayer beads are used in other systems, such as Buddhism and Islam.

 

 

There are also plenty of Christian practices, particularly Protestant Christian, in Neopaganism, like the concept of a priesthood of all believers.

[Hunter's Moon]

There are also plenty of Christian practices, particularly Protestant Christian, in Neopaganism, like the concept of a priesthood of all believers.

 

 

That is interesting.

 

I am supposing you do not mean a literal priesthood. Do you mean the concept of a group of faithful?

[KarenNC]

That is interesting.

 

I am supposing you do not mean a literal priesthood. Do you mean the concept of a group of faithful?

 

Perhaps. Here's how the Southern Baptist Convention describes it: "We affirm the priesthood of all believers. Laypersons have the same right as ordained ministers to communicate with God, interpret Scripture, and minister in Christ's name."

 

Here's discussion of it in a Pagan clergy panel discussion http://www.earthspir.../pclergy1.html:

"Isaac Bonewits: In the Old Religions of our Indo-European ancestors, conflict between the clergy castes and the warrior castes often developed. In India, the Brahmins won this conflict, creating an oppressive theocracy that exists to this very day. In ancient Rome and among the Germanic tribes, the warriors won, freeing them to act without moral restraints. The Celtic peoples, however, seem to have managed to strike a dynamic balance between their clergy (the Druids) and their warriors, with both castes staying powerful well into historical times.

When Western Christianity, the product of a theocratic culture (Israel) and a martial one (Rome), conquered Europe, the same conflict between clergy and warriors was played out repeatedly, giving us most of the history of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance with which we are familiar. To bolster its power, the Church inflated the power and prestige of the clergy as much as the Brahmins had. It's no wonder that the primary challenge to the power of the Christian clergy came from Germanic Christians. Martin Luther declared a doctrine of "the priesthood of all believers," saying that any believing male Christian could be a priest and lead worship. The Anabaptists went further and abolished all distinctions between clergy and laity.

These concepts have saturated Western culture for centuries, affecting both liberal and conservative Protestants. When Gerald Gardner created the initiation rituals of what was to become Neopagan Witchcraft in the 1950s, he included this Protestant doctrine and enshrined it into Wiccan duotheology and liturgy. In Gardner's case, the doctrine became what we could call "the priest/esshood of all believers," and all Wiccans were named "Priestess and Witch" or "Priest and Witch" at their first initiation into the faith."

 

"Sam Webster: ....Paganism's greatest power is in its being homespun. No matter how much research and education we do, we end up making the end product ourselves. This is why we have survived. No one empowers us to do what we do, except ourselves. We and our groups grow, mutate, hive off, die and are reborn not by anyone else's choice but by our own. We can do this because of the "priesthood of all believers," as Martin Luther called it in the 1500s. But the Lutherans proceeded to invest the real power in their clergy and establish an institution of substantial political power over the people in the lands they controlled. That was wrong and we should not do it. But fortunately for us, each Pagan is expected to truly be their own priestess or priest. This has not always been the "Pagan Way." After all, the Christian clergy learned to be so aloof from us, in the times of Rome, Greece, and beyond. Yet times have changed, and for the contemporary Pagan, the key to our survival and growth is in our ability to look out for ourselves and not in being dependent on some body of specially trained individuals."

[Onceuponatime]

That is interesting.

 

I am supposing you do not mean a literal priesthood. Do you mean the concept of a group of faithful?

 

 

The protestant concept of the priesthood of all believers is in one way a reaction to the priesthood of Catholicism and in another way a response to some New Testament scriptures. The idea is that with the death of Christ, human priests are no longer needed. Christ became the high priest forever and individuals have direct contact with God through him. Essentially, we are each our own priests, so we are a priesthood of believers. This is taken in more of a metaphorical than literal sense. What it means is that theoretically individuals can work out their own salvation and relationship with God without having to look to any other authority. It doesn't always work that way in practice.

 

Translating to pagans would probably mean that each person can be his/her own priest/ authority. I'm guessing that is a modern era idea even for paganism.

Personally, I would be glad to be considered my own authority in my own religious matters

[momto2Cs]

This is a marvelous thread!

 

So the question is: In what faith do you bring up your own children? Is you husband of the same faith? If you husband & yourself are of different faiths how does he react to you being a practicing pagan? Do you have troubles with inlaws and your faith (and perhaps them trying to impose their faith upon your kids), if so, how do you deal with this?

 

As for my children, I am trying to raise them to make their own decisions about religion. My parents are Christian, and I allow them to take my children to church because I believe the basic lessons at church are good lessons (do unto others, etc.). But my kids also know that I believe differently. I have explained about my beliefs to them and I answer any questions they may have. They lean towards my way of thinking (DD is even calling herself a witch now), but they still have questions. DS asked me the other day if I believed in the devil. I want them to follow their own hearts as far as religion goes. But the main thing I want them to learn is religious tolerance.

 

I raise my children to make their own decisions about religion. I only practice Paganism very loosely, you could say. I'm not into chants, spells, etc., but I do make an attempt to celebrate the Wheel of the Year, etc. I'm more of a kitchen/garden witch, while DH is more along the lines of Wiccan. He has an outdoor altar, and indoor altar, holds personal rituals, and so forth. It is very personal for each of us, and I'm fine with that. As for the kids, ds11 is convinced there are Greek Gods, along with Norse, and all the others. I have wondered myself if this is the explanation for the chaos in this world - think about it... if there are all these gods and goddesses, warring wirh each other, falling in love with each other, and much more, wouldn't all that affect the lives of mortals?

 

Anyhow, I went off on a tangent there. Part of our homeschooling journey is learning about other people, cultures, religions, and ways of life. I want my kids to have a basic understanding of not only Paganism, but also Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Muslim, and so on. I want them to have the freedom to choose their own path when they get older. For right now, they enjoy seasonal celebrations, stories that relate to these times, and things of that sort, but if they choose differently when they are older, I'm fine with that, as long as they maintain respect for the choices of others. I basically am trying to teach them tolerance and appreciation for that which differs from their own paths.

[Firefly]

Another pagan chiming in, of the kitchen witch variety.

 

Satan: no

 

God/s: well... my beliefs are similar to Mergath's, and yes I do believe in a sort of life force that connects us all. Some of that energy is positive/creative ("good"), some negative/destructive ("evil"). The ever present forces of nature. In other words, it's wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff. ;)

 

Afterlife: yes. We are here to learn. At some point, we get it and if we wish, move on to something different. Otherwise we keep coming back until we get it right.

 

Misc: Someone also asked for some specific examples of celebrating the sabbats. I'll share my favorite: Samhain (pronounced "SOW-en"). In the morning we pull out our ancestor table-- we display special photos of loved ones who have passed on and put them on our family altar. We have a skull candle that gets lit and we leave it burning for the day. Later in the afternoon, we go for a walk in the woods or around the property and gather something that calls to us-- a stone, leaf, twig, flower-- whatever. Then we take a ride to the cemetery and lay our gifts on the graves of loved ones. I hope to connect them to their past by telling the kids about the people they never knew but who were special to me, through the pictures and the visit to the graveyard. Then we come home and do the whole Halloween thing... a fun way to end the day!

 

Speaking of which, like others I am not raising my children to be a particular faith. We practice and celebrate pagan sabbats, but they've also been exposed to other faiths. We have also studied various religions at length in our studies. DH identifies as Christian, but only in the sense that he believes Christ's message was a positive one. His extended family are pretty religious (Christian) but it hasn't been a problem for us, since so many of the ways pagans celebrate the sabbats are shared by Christianity. I think though, if they knew I was a pagan, we would probably be disinherited. ;)

[Mergath]

In other words, it's wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff. ;)

 

 

:001_wub: :D

[Mergath]

As far as raising the kids, with my dd I explain what I believe and she participates in whatever I happen to be doing. I also teach her about all the other religions I study or have studied. In tiny, four-year-old bites. She knows who Buddha is, and I've taught her a bit about his teachings. She understands the general idea of God. She knows why people go to church. She's heard of Jesus, though I don't think she knows any of the details.

 

With a lot of it, it's just what we do. I haven't set it all aside and said, "Now look, these are our religious beliefs." If anyone asked her to explain her religion, she'd be like, "My what?" She just knows that we care for the Earth, we are one with everything, we don't hurt living things, and that when we die, our bodies become part of the Earth again.

[Ravin]

To answer about seasonal differences, I adjust my wheel to reflect the seasons here. In particular, pushing Winternights back to close to Halloween or even Thanksgiving some years, instead of the autumn equinox, and more emphasis on the solstices. I know there are some Asatruar down under in the Southern Hemisphere who make a point of flipping their wheel. They celebrate Yule at the winter solstice in June and Midsummer at the summer solstice in December and so on.

 

With respect to raising children, thus far I have raised mine in my path without opposition as DH keeps to more of a private thing. Next year DD's social studies in homeschool is going to focus on religion I think--we've found a group to participate with that are diverse/eclectic pagans, and living in a large metro area I can guide DD in learning about various religions with a respectful participant observer approach.

[delaney]

Personally I love teaching chemistry because it is the hard core, underlying proof that we are connected to everything. See that table sugar? See the dirt outside? We all have basic elements in common. How can we NOT be connected to the earth? I am actively working with my girls on witchery so that they can see, feel, and appreciate the world around them and feel the power it holds.

[jhschool]

I have a question. What is the difference between Pagans and Neopagans?

I heard something about there are a lot of Neopagans in the Scandinavian countries

(I don't know if it's true or not; just something I heard on the radio).

Are there any differences?

This is a fascinating thread BTW. Thanks for starting it!

[KarenNC]

I have a question. What is the difference between Pagans and Neopagans?

I heard something about there are a lot of Neopagans in the Scandinavian countries

(I don't know if it's true or not; just something I heard on the radio).

Are there any differences?

This is a fascinating thread BTW. Thanks for starting it!

 

 

In common usage, the terms Pagan and Neopagan are pretty interchangeable, IME. I personally prefer Neopagan as it is a more accurate description of what I believe/do. My beliefs and practices are informed by ancient practices, but are neither an unbroken continuation of nor identical to ancient practices.

[KarenNC]

Speaking of which, like others I am not raising my children to be a particular faith. We practice and celebrate pagan sabbats, but they've also been exposed to other faiths. We have also studied various religions at length in our studies.

 

Personally, I don't consider raising my child in our religion and exposing her to others to be mutually exclusive. While she may go a different way as an adult (or explore others as part of her journey), I feel it's my job as a parent to give her a solid grounding in our family beliefs, a foundation on which to build, just as we do in all other areas of her life. I don't consider all paths to be equally correct (if I did, I would still be in the Episcopal Church---it would be a *lot* easier socially, personally, etc, plus I love the music and liturgy :D ), so why would I not teach her what I believe to be the most accurate understanding of spiritual reality?

 

Simply by living in our American society, my child is unable to avoid being exposed to other religions (specifically Christianity) :p . It happens daily--at the mall, the grocery store, the radio, TV shows, the newspaper, her friends, participating in family events (extended family is very conservative Christian), etc. The culture is saturated in ways big and small. Beyond that, however, we have always intentionally educated her about a wide variety of religions. When she was young, that included being involved in family activities, reading sacred stories from a variety of cultures, and learning about other religions as part of our intro to world cultures in K (used DK's A Child Like Me, etc series). We sought out a homeschool group that is inclusive----atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Neopagans, Buddhists, etc--to get to know people as people first, not just as religious labels. Religious education at our UU church includes learning about other religions. We attend many local cultural festivals that include religious aspects. She's participated in Reform Jewish services and activities her entire life, as my husband (though not Jewish--we studied for possible conversion at one point) has sung with the local RJ synagogue choir for over 15 years. Over the last few years, we've led or attended comparative religion field trips for our homeschool group to a variety of houses of worship---Quaker, Reform Jewish, Greek Orthodox, Unity, UU, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, so far. As polytheists, acknowledging that others worship other Gods is no threat to our beliefs. Unlike in monotheism, we don't have to believe that other Gods are false to believe that ours are real. Now that doesn't mean we have to believe that all the claims others make about their Gods are accurate ;) .

 

This coming year, we are increasing a focus on the Jewish and Christian roots and influence on western civilization in prep for high school. I consider Biblical literacy as important as a thorough knowledge of Shakespeare and the Classical myths. I'm looking at using both the curriculum from www.bibleliteracy.org--"The Bible and Its Influence"--as well as Windows to the World from IEW to start literary analysis. I specifically wanted Windows to the World because of the inclusion of Biblical allusions, as well as its reputation for being a good lit analyis prep. Her passion is art and she will need that grounding in Biblical symbolism for truly getting art history, in addition to needing it for understanding literature.

[Rosie_0801]

Does your tradition have religious art, Karen?

[KarenNC]

Does your tradition have religious art, Karen?

 

 

Hellenic? Absolutely, all over the place :D . Visit most any museum. At least here, you can find architecture, statuary, paintings, etc all related to the Olympians, both modern and from the classical period, in museums, city architecture, song, poetry, public art, etc. Even if the art pieces weren't originally intended as devotional art, we certainly can find that in it. For instance, the recreation of the Parthenon in Nashville is fabulous http://en.wikipedia....on_(Nashville). We've been once and hope to return. Here's a picture of our Hera/Zeus hieros gamos (sacred marriage) shrine with cross stitch piece done by my husband (he finds it relaxing, drives me batty) http://executivepaga...21/new-shrine/. Since that point, we've added a small statue of Zeus, and a framed picture of an eagle (in an oak leaf frame).

 

There's a print of this image of the spirit of Niagara Falls on our wall https://www.google.c...c.html;732;1386 along with the Zodiac by Mucha http://www.muchafoundation.org/gallery/browse-works/object/242. The Art Nouveau and Romantic periods had alot of images we find meaningful.

 

From the other traditions we find forming a part of our path: I bought an autumn Greenman mask for my husband, which we have hanging on the wall http://www.etsy.com/...CFQvznAodAVgAsg . The Green Man has a lot of meaning for my husband. Here's a link to photos from our Kwan Yin shrine with artwork my husband did (a cross stitch and a beaded piece ) http://amongmiracles...e-for-quan-yin/ We also find a lot of inspiration in Miyazaki films, particularly Spirited Away (Shinto---it's one of the reasons my husband picked aikido as the martial art he and my daughter study).

 

Sorry for the links, I don't know how to insert an image.

 

Overall, we, like many others, have a religious path syncretized from the many strands of our lives and history. Oddly enough, at least by Neopagan community standards, neither of us is at all drawn to either the Celtic or Germanic pantheons although our ethnic background is heavily Celtic/German, nor to the Native American, though we live in an area long settled by Native Americans and (at least theoretically) I have some NA heritage. It's more our cultural heritage that speaks to us----Greek/Roman as it has come to us through Western Europe, mingling with the mythos of Britain and intersecting with the Japanese.

[Rosie_0801]

Hellenic? Absolutely, all over the place :D . Visit most any museum.

 

I did mean modern. I'm aware the ancient Greeks had a thing about columns and naked athletes on their pottery. :p Thanks for the links though! Ever seen these? http://www.dancinggoddessdolls.com/id3.htm I bought an Athena doll for dd as a beginning school present, and an Austeja for a friend's wedding present. They are bee-yoo-tiful!

[KarenNC]

I did mean modern. I'm aware the ancient Greeks had a thing about columns and naked athletes on their pottery. :p Thanks for the links though! Ever seen these? http://www.dancinggo...lls.com/id3.htm I bought an Athena doll for dd as a beginning school present, and an Austeja for a friend's wedding present. They are bee-yoo-tiful!

 

Very cute. Here's the Playmobil shrine we started when our daughter was 7 http://executivepagan.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/teach-your-children-well/

[Mom in High Heels]

Very cute. Here's the Playmobil shrine we started when our daughter was 7 http://executivepaga...-children-well/

 

 

 

That is awesome! I love Playmobil. What a great use for it! We have some of those same pieces. Sadly, Indy is no longer into Playmobil, but I saved it all and hopefully one day Han Solo will love it too. If he's not, I'll just get it out and play with it myself. :smilielol5:

 

Hopefully I'll have the photos on my blog from when we were in Athens a few months ago. The Parthenon was stunning and the Erecthion, with the maiden's porch was awe inspiring.

[KarenNC]

That is awesome! I love Playmobil. What a great use for it! We have some of those same pieces. Sadly, Indy is no longer into Playmobil, but I saved it all and hopefully one day Han Solo will love it too. If he's not, I'll just get it out and play with it myself. :smilielol5:

 

Hopefully I'll have the photos on my blog from when we were in Athens a few months ago. The Parthenon was stunning and the Erecthion, with the maiden's porch was awe inspiring.

 

There's no age limit on Playmobil :D . I've given my husband something from either Playmobil or Lego every year for Winter Solstice for many years. We've also got a small Shinto/Buddhist "shrine" (no kamidana, etc so not official) using the torii gate from the Asian zoo set and the Kaminarimon from Nanoblocks http://www.amazon.co...rds=nanoblocks. I may also add the Nanoblock Statue of Liberty to our American shrine (the one with the statue of Freedom, an American flag and a Playmobil Uncle Sam---some of the deities we see as part of a distinctly American civil religion, similar to the ancient civil religions of Greece and Rome). I'd love to get the Playmobil Statue of Liberty, but it's in the set of packages of mystery figures. I'm not good enough to figure out by feel which one it is and don't want to just keep buying the packs until I find it now that my daughter isn't playing with Playmobil anymore.

 

I've also strongly considered getting an actual kamidana, ofuda and amulets from Tsubaki Grand Shrine of America (Shinto) in Washington http://www.tsubakish...ori/index.html. It's a branch of the Tsubaki Grand Shrine in Japan. One of the kami enshrined there is America Kokudo Kunitama-no-Kami (protector of North American Continent) (http://www.tsubakish...anda/index.html). My husband has talked about building a simple kamidana, but I don't know when that will happen. With my daughter entering her teen years :willy_nilly: , something for Amaterasu OmiKami (Kami of the Sun, the Highest Shinto Kami who is in charge of all living things and is the Kami presiding over everything that originates in the parent/child relationship), along with Athena and Artemis, couldn't hurt. ;) I need all the help I can get!